Re: Obama Labor Day address observations

[bluestateguy]

When Obama gets out there and starts defending himself and going on offense, he does OK. He has the ability to turn up the populist rhetoric, an easygoing demeanor and a good sense of humor. Contrary to media myths, he is a very good extemporaneous speaker.

The problem is that he is not like Bill Clinton, who hit back fast and hard.

Obama's approach is to get his ass kicked around by the Echo Chamber for a few rounds before getting up, dazed, battered and not quite ready to quit (even if the other side thinks he is done for the count). Then he hits back, and then he hits again a little harder, and a little harder the next time, until finally the momentum is back in his corner and he's pummeling the the other side into the ground. We saw this in the primary against Hillary, in the general against McCain, and with the health care bill.

I have to say that I prefer the Clinton approach, but the Obama approach has it's advantages too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. It's called "rope-a-dope."

It can be a very effective strategy.

"The rope-a-dope is performed by a boxer assuming a protected stance, in Ali's classic pose, lying against the ropes, and allowing his opponent to hit him, toward the end that the opponent will tire and make mistakes which the boxer can exploit in a counter-attack.

In competitive situations other than boxing, rope-a-dope is used to describe strategies in which one party purposely puts itself in what appears to be a losing position, attempting thereby to become the eventual victor." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope

[vaberella]

7. I was just about to say. n/t

[Pirate Smile]

10. Hmmm

[Inuca]

2. And in all the instances you cite

he WON!

[phleshdef]

3. I think part of it is he doesn't find joy in aggressive, nasty stuff.

And when he gets pushed into going that route, he is doubly pissed off about it.

[hlthe2b]

4. I think he has been "brain-washed" into fearing the

"angry black man" stereotype.

[Hawkowl]

6. Bingo!

I think that is EXACTLY what he thinks! I think times have changed. We aren't in the 1970's or even the 1990's anymore. People are much more comfortable with some righteously angry black men. Think of actors Samuel L. Jackson and Denzel Washington. People are ready for RIGHTEOUS anger. People want him to reflect their own anger.

[angee_is_mad]

9. you must be white

no offense, but that angry black male stereotype is alive and kicking. At the end of the day Denzel and Sam are actors, acting. A better comparison would be a black professional athlete. Look at all the hell that uppity Lebron James caught for deciding to take a job elsewhere after his contract was over.

[rufus dog]

11. Point for you

Although Lebron did a piss poor job managing the break up I do hear comments like "He meant so much to Cleveland and he dumped them"

The truth of the matter is he had a shitty supporting cast in Cleveland.

[angee_is_mad]

16. Here's the thing though

millions of people watched his interview and they went into that knowing that the teams he was looking at was, NY, Chicago, Miami or staying at Cleveland.
Remember the environment before the interview. Everyone I knew, felt he was leaving Cleveland to get that ring. Hell I thought he was going to NY or Chicago. It's funny how we all watched to hear the big announcement and after the announcement because he didn't go where WE wanted him to go, he is know the Antichrist. Kinda like the POTUS. Because Obama isn't able to give us all that we want, some progressives are talking about primarying him. There was a post up today asking that question. Give Obama a better team (congress) and we will get there.

[Hawkowl]

18. Not for democrats

Yes, the rednecks and the teabaggers, and even soccer mom rethuglicans hate the "angry black man". They hate all "black men". Doesn't matter if they're angry or not. I'm saying that his BASE wants to see some anger. Not some crazy screaming Farrakhan shit, but some pointed stern words. I'm thinking along the lines of Ronald Reagan in his primary with Bush I, where Reagan got in the face of the debate moderator and said he was paying for the microphone and to turn it back on. (Ronald Reagan was an actor).

And I'm guessing you're not white. White liberals would like to seem some anger-- at least anger directed at the enemy.

[vaberella]

14. Thank you for showing utter disconnect.

And marginalizing the problem by using actors for your point. Ridiculous. And Denzel Washington rarely plays the righteously angry Black man. I figured I'd never say this...but really---don't talk about something you have no clue about. You don't know what it means to be Black and how these stereotypes stalk us.

We live in TWO worlds. You live in your world. You live as a White man and think because we're in the times have changed. Not that much. We as Blacks live in these two worlds. We live in our world and the world of stereotypes and institutionalized (or not) racism. So yeah...people wouldn't love a righteously angry Black man...not in real life.

Ugh...comments like yours irritate me.

[angee_is_mad]

17. Remember how markos went on msnbc

practically begging crist to changed from rethug to dem. This is after Kendrick Meek has been running for months, but yet they can ask for money to help dino halter beat lincoln in a red state.
blanche lincoln is sorry as hell, but she was smart enough to know the democratic base is black people and went out there and beg for their votes, while halter had dailykos and progressives who didn't live in the state.

[Hawkowl]

19. Your assumptions

Are ignorant.

[vaberella]

20. My assumptions about you...possibly.

My assumptions on your post...hardly.

[impik]

22. Well said. It pisses me so muhc when i hear all those white rich pundits

questioning the fighting spirit of the first black president.

[vaberella]

13. Most Black men have and let's be real---No Repub will let him forget his DNA.

That's right....the "angry Black man" is basically a biological plight---or that's how Repubs and racist make it seem. You call it fear...at this point it's a make up. It's like the many Black men I know who were warned by their mother to not get into a relationship with a White women. It's just an ever present title one avoids at all costs. I know I wouldn't be accepted by society the way I am. Look at Michelle Obama---do you really picture Michelle Obama going natural? Hell no. She'll be labeled as a the militant Black woman (and that's by other Black people---picture the racists). And as a natural haired woman myself---I know the title well.

[impik]

21. *Exactly*. He is a man of peace and he'll give people almost ridiculous credit

But again and again it makes them underestimate him, and that's include much of his supporters. He is a damn huge fighter.

[Robbins]

5. Obama

He Is the kind of politican who lets his enemies bash him and then when they think he Is done for then he hits back.

In 2007 many pundits wrote him off.He beat the clintons.

In the summer of 2008 many were saying(Including some here)he was In trouble and couldn't win certain states.At the Democratic
Convention he smacked Mccain down.One of the most critical of opporent in a presidential candiate's nominating speech was of Obama
against Mccain.

In september 2008 many thought he was done for and that Mccain would beat him up In Debates.Obama won every debate despite the MSM
trying to tryst the first one and Palin's debate Into Republican wins.

The MSM has been doing all they could to bring him down.And now will be the time to fight.And If Republicans fall short In November
this will be defeat for them,and the MSM will have egg on their faces.

[vaberella]

8. You need to watch Rumble in the Jungle bet. Mohammad Ali & George Foreman.

Or look up rope-a-dope on wiki. Obama works better like that.

[rufus dog]

12. I don't think Clinton had anywhere near the one sided press

Fox hadn't even started when he was elected. Dan Rather was still an anchor, the Fox fucks were just identifying how far they could go, and the internet wasn't nearly the developed tool it is today. (allowing coordinated talking points to be sent out immediately)

From day one Obama had the press pounding him. (and I expect this to be the same for every future Dem President)

[Pirate Smile]

15. Fox News Channel didn't EXIST until October 1996 - a month before Clinton's reelection

campaign AND it wasn't on nearly as many cable networks, etc. Plus the Internet didn't exist in the public sphere. The attacks on Obama are really on a different scale then Clinton had in the 90's. The assholes like Rush are still around too - doing the same smear job to President Obama as they did to Clinton - but add Fox and the Internet to it also.

I doubt the crazy RW e-mail chain smear campaigns were up and running to the same extent back then also.