Obama's Support for Charter Schools Could Be His Undoing

[Bullet1987]

Charter schools have very mixed popularity. Some people love it, others despise it with a passion. Recently several Civil Right/Liberties groups came out against the Department of Education because of this. They've fallen in line recently, but charter schools are the baby of Republicans. Here' what some have said about this horrible idea...

Charter schools create two-tiered education....Other Problems

http://bctf.ca/publications/ResearchReports.aspx?id=5610">BC Teachers Federation

Opposition to charter schools has been expressed by the B.C. Minister of Education, Art Charbonneau. He told the legislature that charter schools produce "a system where some groups of parents see that through more extensive control and participation, they can deliver one level of education in that school, and they feel the public schools in that area can be satisfied with a lesser level of education."

Research indicates that inequalities in schooling and segregation by social class have increased in Britain since the system of grant-maintained schools was introduced. Most of the people who choose the alternatives are from high socio-economic status. They want their children in schools with similar students and have the time and money to ensure that their children can make it to a school from outside their neighborhood.
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Charter schools encourage social fragmentation rather than common experiences.

Charter schools lead to balkanization as groups create schools to reflect their special interests. As an example, one charter school in the U.S. is being promoted by promising parents that they will teach creationism through the school's distance education program.

Obama is making a serious mistake on this issue. More corporate policies is all I see from this "Progressive" President.

[Oregone]

1. Isn't there enough American opposition to this?

Seems funny to link to BC teacher's federation when talking about Obama in headline

[Bullet1987]

2. My brother wants to get on the computer and I found a quick website

Yes...I know there are TONS of people in America who oppose charter schools. Point is, many people globally hate charter schools. Many who support it seemingly ignore the negatives when pumping it up.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

24. Gallup Poll Last year

64% approved of the use of charter schools.

In answer to you question, no. There's aren't enough Americans who disapprove of this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aWRZ1.Y3s9Jo

And before you say that Gallup was biased, the poll was sponsored by Phi Delta Kappa

[impik]

3. Is this his Katrina?

[JoePhilly]

4. Thought the same basic thing ...

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

12. Silly fool, this is his Vietnam.

[NJmaverick]

5. Polls show overwhelming public support for this part of his education improvement plan

[Larkspur]

6. That's because they don't know the truth about charter schools

Research has found that overall charter schools are no better than public schools at teaching kids an quite a few are just financial black holes. If people knew that, then they'd be more for supporting revamping public education.

[Bullet1987]

7. Yea...most people hear education reform & think it's a good idea

They don't know what time of reform they're getting.

[jefferson_dem]

8. The American public, as a whole, knows our public ed system is broken and in need of reform.

As long as he can distinguish his approach from Boosh's NCLB disaster, he'll be fine.

By the way, I would hope opponents of reform are able to provide better supporting evidence than the 15 year old document from a Canadian advocacy group in the OP.

[jeanpalmer]

13. Show the proof that it's the teachers' fault

and not the kids'. What happens if the kids are underperforming and not the teachers? Answer: all of Obama's and Duncan's theories go out the window. How do you plan to reform the kids?

[NJmaverick]

14. Are you seriously blaming small children for this mess?

[jeanpalmer]

15. It's not blaming

It's facing up to reality. If you want to stick your head in the sand and blame teachers, you're the one doing the blaming. Again, where's your proof that the teachers are to blame for low test scores? You don't have any. You're just repeating the myths and prejudices of Obama and Duncan, who have no proof and are merely selling out teachers and unions to score poltical points.

But if you have the proof, put it up.

[NJmaverick]

16. When a company does bad they fire the CEO, when a team does bad they fire the coach

when a government fails they vote out the leaders. Why is it that when the education system fails the teachers are blameless?

[jeanpalmer]

17. It's ridiculously stupid

to blame teachers. It could be that the kids are subpar in ability, and that in fact they're performing up to ability. But at a mimimum there ought to be an investigation to find out why the students are not performing up to expectations. What happens if they find out the kids have low abilities and the teachers are doing all they can to teach them? Why do you want to blame the teacher if that's the case? And fire him/her?

If you have the proof that it's the teachers' fault, put it up here. You don't have any. You're just repeating Duncan's myths.

Also, if you work in the private sector and there's a problem meeting company or unity goals and your first impulse is to fire the workers, without asking why, you'll go broke.

[NJmaverick]

18. When you hire someone to teach children and they don't perform

it would seem the burden is not to prove the person that failed to do their job is at fault, rather the burden of proof is to prove that the teacher wasn't at fault.

[jeanpalmer]

19. If you knew anything about the burden of proof

and how that concept is applied in the law (that's where it comes from), you'd know that that burden is not irrationally imposed on people, as you're trying to do to teachers. It makes no sense to put that burden on teachers when there's no indication they're at fault. You're apparently unwilling to make a basic inquiry to find out why kids aren't learning. You and Obama and Duncan just want to blame teachers. Without any proof. Again, I'm challenging you to put your proof that teachers are at fault.

[NJmaverick]

21. This is not a criminal trial, you don't get special rights or privileges

In the world of business and some sectors of government you are required to perform your job up to certain standards. If you are fail to do that, you need to prove to your employer or boss (or at least convince them) that there were reasons beyond your control. Your boss or employer doesn't have to prove you were at fault (as long as they can show the job wasn't performed), because it's not a criminal trial.

[jeanpalmer]

22. I think it's the kids who aren't performing

up to standard. They're not performing on the tests. I think you're confused there.

But you want to blame the teachers for the kids' non-performance, even though you and Obama and Duncan don't have the proof that the teachers are at fault. Why?

Have you ever supervised people? If so, have you ever had the misfortune to supervise someone who is not up to the task? What were your options? Fire him (how do teachers fire a student who is a screwoff or whose parents are screwwoffs?) Or keep him and get fired yourself (This is the position teachers are in.)

[NJmaverick]

23. Why are we paying the teachers if it's the children's responsibility to learn?

I have supervised both employees and I have supervised volunteers (and often with the volunteers I wasn't in a position to just get rid of them). In the end I had to put in the effort and figure out ways to motivate them, because that was my job. I didn't blame the people under me if I didn't supervise them properly.

[jeanpalmer]

26. You're ignoring the fact

that kids have innate intellectual abilities. And you're not willing to accept the consequences of that. And you're eager to blame teachers for what very likely is the result of innate limitations in ability.

People have limitations in athletic ability. You wouldn't fire a coach who was unable to teach an unathletic kid to be an all-league baseball player. Because you know that the kid's innate abilities limit the kids performance. You'd never set that standard for the coach.

But you're willing to fire a teacher if he/she can't get a kid with a 70-80 IQ to pass a standard math test. Go figure.

The two things a politician can't talk about are the inabilities of kids to meet a standard and the failure of parents to properly assist their kids in learning. Those are taboo topics. Politically untouchable. And yet they clearly exist and might almost completely explain the underperformance of kids on standard tests. The popular thing to do is to blame teachers, as you and Obama and Duncan are doing, without any proof.

Of course employees can be fired irrationally by a predator employer. That's why we have unions and courts and civil service, to give people reasonable protection. Apparently, you and Obama and Duncan are unwilling to give them that protection.

[boppers]

30. Teachers have "innate limitations in ability", too.

Plenty of blame to go around, which is why the best RttT programs that the schools are coming up with do much more than simply assess teachers and test students.

[NJmaverick]

35. Our education system is a failure compared to much of the world

I refuse to accept that our children are not capable of keeping up with the rest of the world. They have the potential it's just not being brought out in them.

You comments remind me of what my first boss and mentor used to lecture me about when I was a new manager and fresh out of college. "they don't pay you to make excuses or spend time explaining why things can't or are not being done. They hire you to get things done one way or another". What he taught me is that it's very easy to make excuses. It's much harder though to actually fix problems and get jobs done. Too often we give into the temptation of taking the easy way out.

[jefferson_dem]

25. I don't blame teachers.

I just expect them/us to do their/our job, with care and efficiency, or do something else. That's not too much to ask.

[jeanpalmer]

27. That's just another way of saying

teachers are not doing their job. Even though you don't have the evidence of that. When a kid fails a test, why do you want to believe the teacher did not do his job. Why isn't it the kid's fault, or at least why isn't the kid looked at first?

People pay big dollars to take courses in preparation for CPA and bar exams. If someone fails one of those tests, you apparently would immediately focus on the teacher as the one not performing. Why?

[ibegurpard]

28. Because Arne told him that's why

[jefferson_dem]

29. You're fixated on testing.

I'm not. I'm interested in educational quality, rewarding teachers who are doing well, and ridding us of those who are under-performing.

Obviously, kids are the ones who have the most to lose and they have the greatest responsibility to take control of their own future. If you were paying attention, you would know that POTUS regularly talks about this, including in today's speech.

[ibegurpard]

31. I'm fixated on not turning our most desperate public school systems

over to privatization vultures.

[jeanpalmer]

32. To the contrary

the education bureaucrats are the ones fixated on testing. They're judging education quality by testing alone. Isn't that what they did in MA when they fired all the teachers? Weren't they fired because the test scores weren't high enough, and the teachers were blamed? I have no problem with testing, so long as the results are put in perspectivve. The knee jerk blaming of teachers is not properly using testing results.

Obama talks about a lot of things. He also ripped teachers and unions, which shows he is deficient and not up to the task.

[YvonneCa]

33. But that is not what evaluations like...

...the one in DC actually do.

[Milo_Bloom]

20. The proof that it is the teachers' fault is that the children are underpreforming.

The real question becomes how to define "underpreforming".

[YvonneCa]

34. Or how to spell it. Sorry...

...I just couldn't resist.:)

[boppers]

9. When did Obama become president of Canada? Britain?

Aren't those other countries, with very different education systems?

[Jigglebilly]

10. Educated people can ascertain how case studies from other places are relevant

as well as where the analogous circumstances are limited. But you knew that.

[Unsane]

11. In Arnie I trust