The GOP does not crucify their own the way the Dem's do

[Maraya1969]

Look at all the ridicules things the GOP has done. The tax break for billionaires, the wars, the constant filibustering and so many other things that I can't think of right now.
And Republicans still support them. We call them sheeple but there might be another name for them. LOYAL.

I can't stand all the threads on here bashing our Democratic representatives and especially our President. Can't any of you that are doing this realize you are playing right into the GOP hands? And then these threads where everyone talks about how bad our president is gets votes so they end up on the Greatest Page for everyone of the thousands of visitors a day here to see.

When I hear about how winning seats in the primaries depends greatly on the Presidents approval rating and then see people who are lowering his approval rating whether knowingly or unknowingly I think they don't care about the primaries or the Democratic party. And the rules say we are here because we are Democrats and are supposed to support the Democratic party.

And yea you can complain but how about not in so much of a "the presidents a failure type of way". We must remember that we are all in the same boat and if Republicans get the majority our country will turn to shit just as it was starting to get out of the shit.

[bbgrunt]

1. this is a two-way street. Republicans don't trash

their base by calling them f**ing retards either.

[zipplewrath]

3. And at least throw them a bone once and a bit

Roberts, Alito, Schiavo, "faith based initiative", the GOP know how to "reward" their base from time to time. The Dems expect them to "suck it up".

[ProSense]

5. First, no one did what you are accusing them of doing, and second

Boehner called the teabaggers killers.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Hold on to that grudge that has morphed from Rahm referring to an idea as f**ing retarded.....

to now him calling the entire "base" f**ing retards!
So it appears that the Left like to distort shit
and hang on to it for dear life forever just like some
child who turns 40 and is still blaming his father for his life
not having turned out just right.

Rahm ain't fucking perfect. He made a statement that has been transformed
into much more though, by those looking for an excuse to shit on the admin
and the party as often as possible!

If this debate was truly about policy progress, we could get somewhere much futher....
but apparently it is about how the feeling of some got hurt in the
process. I was disappointed with Rahm saying what he did say,
but I ain't gonna pout and allow that foolishness to allow me cut my nose off to spite him.

Some folks need to grow up all over the place. Rahm is one,
but you've got your own growing up to do.

[Sheepshank]

21. How is this anything

that can or should be assigned to every Dem elected official?

I certaily don't feel that way toward any Dem, I think I may know a few others that don't feel this way. I think Obama is quite a noble man. Why aren't you hanging your hat on that statement and spreading it and using as comments for party support and loyalty?

Oh that's right it's doesn't fit you agenda...never mind.

[w4rma]

27. Exactly. It is because these people are trying to do what Wall Street wants, while lying about it.nt

[Fruittree]

34. Of course you can believe..

what you want to believe but nobody said that. I think the poster means to say, it's time to stick together, keep things in perspective and not make a mountain out of a molehill in every single case. I think sometimes our society just suffers from too much information and everything just gets blown way out of proportion and we don't engage in discussion so much as just name calling, accusing and online screaming when a lot of times all we're seeing is the messy process of democracy. It's not a dictatorship,we don't go from A to Z in one step - everything takes time. The poster is correct, if we weaken President Obama, we essentially weaken ourselves and any chance for meaningful change. We play right into Republican/Tea Party hands...

[zipplewrath]

2. I don't think you've been to freeperville lately

They can turn on folks so fast it ain't funny. Look at what happened to Scott Brown after a single vote.

You're talking about the Clinton observation that Democrats look to fall in love, and republicans look to fall in line. I think the tendency is overstated. It is really more of a case of democrats tend to be knowledge/logic/outcome driven voters, and the GOP is more of the "faith based" authortarian based voters. It's more important to them to be on the "winning" side than on the "right" side.

This is going to change the way they approach their politicians, but I don't think one can hope for blind loyalty and still want a thinking people.

[earthside]

4. Another way to look at it, though ...

... is that Repuglican officeholders are not constantly disappointing and compromising on almost everything their base supporters elected them for.

In my opinion, loyalty is earned by the folks we elect, we don't owe them anything until they do what we elected them to do.

So, until the Democrats in Washington start showing some more backbone and display some loyalty to their base supporters, I say, bash away!

[Maraya1969]

11. Do you even read the lists of Democrat and the President's

accomplishments? Here are just 2 links. There are plenty more.

I think sometimes it is a knee jerk reaction to say the haven't accomplished anything when the country is still healing. But you have to look at what all has been done instead of what hasn't been done to see the reality of the situation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4678548

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

[alsame]

6. I'm going to paint with a very broad brush here and say that

in general GOPers are very comfortable walking in lockstep with their party, even when their own interests are threatened. They aren't too keen about questioning authority and tend to believe most of what they're told.

Just MHO based on conservatives I know personally.

[Maraya1969]

12. I agree. To know some of the things that Republicans believe in in the

fact of facts that prove otherwise means they don't pay attention they just follow their representatives as if they are always right.

[alsame]

15. Right. And again, I'm generalizing, but Democrats tend to

be more skeptical and critical of our elected Reps. Especially when we believe they aren't working in our best interest (Ben Nelson on UI, Blanche Lincoln on HCR, etc).

So I think that's what you are seeing here, people trying to hold them accountable.

[elana i am]

8. i don't know that i agree with you about it being harmful to be

voted up or on the greatest page, or that criticism is inherently damaging, but i do think the criticism has gone beyond all sense of proportion or common sense.

i really really really don't understand how a progressive could be so disappointed by or feel so betrayed by obama. obama is definitely not a progressive. he's not even a liberal IMO. he's a very strict centerist and always has been. his entire philosophy is to work toward bi-partisan solutions for goodness sakes! i'm completely baffled by the current climate of this board because...

1. i voted for kucinich but i got overruled, big time. if we were meant to have a progressive leader in this country then kucinich would be president right now.

2. conspiracy theories about backroom deals aside, obama was not, nor has he ever been anything like a liberal or a progressive. he would bargain away some of the more progressive parts of his legislation to make the deal because that's part of his bi-partisan philosophy. so stop acting suprised when he does it because you voted for it.

3. assuming for a moment he was a progressive, we would still need ben nelson, blanche lincoln and joe lieberschmuck to get anything done because of obstructionist repugs...AND you can count on 1 & 1/2 hands the number of true progressives in congress.

4. presidential directives and signing statements were bad when shrub did them, that means they're still bad should obama attempt them. so stop being fucking hypocrites!

5. i don't think he's some kind of fraud who makes backroom deals and bargains away all the good parts of legislation out of political expedience. what i do believe is he starts with a set of ideals and then participates in a give-and-take according to his bi-partisan philosophy. not only does he have an obstructionist repug party to deal with, but he has to at least attempt to herd the cats in his own party. now, i don't know if you know this, but you can't herd cats.

[CakeGrrl]

9. k/r - the Republican 'sheeple' know how to

get their shit together and put votes up when it counts.

From the sounds of this place lately, people would be proud to split up votes on principle. That will not change the fact that the candidate with the most votes wins the election.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

44. Exhibit 1: All of the "primary Obama" threads floating around here.

[snake in the grass]

10. First of all...

...the average GOP voter is too stupid, yes, too fucking stupid, to realize they are voting against their own interests. Secondly, it is part of their neurophysiology to not question their leaders.

What I find most interesting, though, is that it is assumed by some here that when the "radical left" criticizes President Obama for things like the ball-coddling of big bidness, FISA, torture, rendition, perpetual war, waffling on GLBTQ issues, the health care industry giveaway, the flaccid support of women's issues, or the non-pursuit of fucking war criminals, all of which are absolutely legitimate, they are given the blame for Obama's apparent inability to move forward.

No, that won't stick. It's President Obama's fault for baiting the left with dreams of change for the necessary votes to win and then leaving them on the side of the road like the "fucking retards" they evidently are. I highly doubt that his candidacy in 2012 is in danger. The GOP has nothing to offer. However, if it comes to past that he loses, he will only have himself to blame.

He can cry about it while he tours the speaking engagement circuit and we again struggle to pick up the pieces.

[Maraya1969]

14. Torture? You still think we torture people?

[snake in the grass]

16. As long as we maintain the so-called "black sites", where...

...we hold illiterate goat herders indefinitely, it would be naive to rule torture out. Very naive.

You only have to understand human nature a bit. I doesn't have to be a direct order from the POTUS. Hell, he doesn't even have to know. Just put these people in a helpless and hopeless situation, then add some grunts, who are in a bad mood anyway for having to be there. Cover all this with limited oversight and eventually you get someone getting kicked in the face and a chain of command that tends to cover its own ass first. One thing leads to another.

[vaberella]

35. Uh no...we have our selves to blame because we let the GOP take over.

As for the other things you talk about----you haven't been paying attention these last 19 or so months.

[snake in the grass]

43. Oh, sorry.

I must still be dreaming the Bush nightmare and have yet to wake up in Hunkydoryville like so many others.

Yeah, that's it. I'm not paying attention at all - not at all!

Thank you for opening my eyes!

[TheKentuckian]

13. Loyalty to vice, criminal behavior, betrayal, and wanton destruction is not a virtue

There is nothing good about excusing and encouraging the indefensible because they are "your guy/gal".

[Maraya1969]

30. Give me a break! You think our President and the Dems are trying to destroy

our country? And what criminal behavior, betrayal, in defensive behavior are you speaking of? Seriously, specifics please.

You sound like my crazy family who blames everything, including a traffic jam on the President.

[TheKentuckian]

40. I was talking about the Republicans actually the OP celebrates them for LOYALTY no matter

what vile shit they do.

I see nothing to admire in how they tolerate anything to keep their guys in power.

You sound like a manic woodchuck that is so defensive you lose all context.

Now, our party is following right along a few steps behind about to betray the national trust on Social Security and Medicare to start.

The civil liberties and civil rights issues are discussed daily.

The taint licking of the multi-national corporations to our detriment is well traveled territory.

Feel free to jump on the threads discussing dismantling public education and how folks feel about that.

Now, you may not see the issues the same way but pretending you've never heard of such is ridiculous, but again the point was that there is nothing to respect about the Republican "loyalty" as they betray themselves, their nation, their world, and all of the future to do it.

[JoeyT]

42. I'll answer.

Assassinating Americans without trials, indefinite detention still practiced, actively seeking out and prosecuting whistleblowers, refusing to prosecute war crimes, pushing to be able to intercept communications without a warrant, etc etc. All well documented.

I swear I should just make a list and stick it somewhere to copy and paste. I never get a valid defense of any of it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. Tell that to Arlen Specter, Charlie Crist, Bob Bennett, and Bob Inglis

[spoony]

18. Don't tell people how to post, first of all.

And second, it's "ridicules" to state the horrible traits of Republicans, then suggest we be more like them. By the way, the wars? They're the Dems' now.

[Maraya1969]

33. Don't tell me how to post. I repeated a rule of this forum!

[KingFlorez]

19. That's not true at all

The list of Republicans thrown under the bus is endless

Dede Scozzafava
Harri Anne Smith
Joe Schwarz
Charlie Crist

I could go on and on and on, but I've proven my point.

[Sheepshank]

22. I don't see Bush on your list

biggest shit head of them all, yet loyalty to his presidency and policies by most Reps, still abounds.

[havocmom]

20. some do not consider 'holding responsible' to equal "crucify"

Most will acknowledge that the GOP pols are most proficient at dodging responsibility for errors and omissions. Some will acknowledge that such behaviors are not worthy of emulation. Unless, of course, the only real goal is to acquire and maintain power for the sake of power alone.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Well, for one thing, in our Party we are supposed to be inclusive

And yet we have leadership stacked deeply with people who feel free to announce their bigotry and prejudice against millions of other Democrats. In addition, they have the nerve to suggest that in expressing their love of discrimination, they are speaking for God. When you slander portions of your base like that, it will have an equal and opposite reaction. When you have Tim Kaine who opposes all family rights for GLBT people as the head of the Party, you are putting division in place intentionally. When you have the Donnie McClurkins up there slandering us, and you smugly refuse to apologize, because you think you have replaced this unlike minority with other voters, you have put yourself in a place that demands countering voices, for discrimination is not right, and it is not right that one group should impose their religious 'beliefs' on others, and then call themselves Pragmatists the next day.
Words mean things. Family means all. Equal is equal, and a bigot is a bigot. Welcome to the 21st, try to catch up.

[Maraya1969]

31. Well you are right about that. I seriously was speaking of the President

but I included all Dems because I don't know why. I know some of our representatives have done horrible things.

[firedupdem]

24. K&R

Then the media runs with this "the base isn't happy" crap.

[Jakes Progress]

25. That's because republicans are lying hypocrites.

Is it your contention that we should be lying hypocrites also?

[backwoodsbob]

26. the dem party is also supposed to support us nt

[Skip Intro]

28. Well look at them. Look what lockstep support gets you? I'll take our infighting over that any day.

[DrToast]

29. Loyalty when loyalty isn't deserved is not an admirable trait.*

*

[Maraya1969]

32. Neither is throwing your own party under the bus when an election

is around the corner.

[DrToast]

39. Nobody said that

You, on the other hand, expressed admiration for Republicans blindly following their leaders.

[Stoic]

36. I see you don't hang around right-wing forums very much.

They're every bit as much rancorous as anything you see here. This notion that they're more unified is....ah, mistaken.

[JoePhilly]

37. I agree with you ...

Here's what I see happen ...

You have 40% of the country on the right who will be AGAINST anything Obama does. They claim he's doing too much.

Then you get about 12% of the country on the left who will be AGAINST Obama for not going far enough.

The media sees 52% are AGAINST Obama ... and then claims that the majority of Americans are AGAINST Obama for going too far.

Then 5-10% in the middle who have no idea about anything join "the majority", not for any real reason, just because the media pointed them to "the majority".

And the Dems in Congress get scared and pull back further.

[saltpoint]

38. It's an understatement to suggest that the modern-day

Republican Party would greatly benefit from an honest self-analysis.

It might be healthy in the long run for the country if the idiots and screechers and fundie nutbags all whipped out their knives and went at each other. The GOP let these crazy asses in the front door -- welcomed them with open arms -- and began tailoring policy platforms to the idiots' specifications. This is on the bottom rung of their ladder.

At the top rungs there is Dick Cheney inviting giant oil company flunkies to write U.S. energy policy.

It's all beginning to come apart on the Pukes, and they deserve all the roiling division that can be heaped upon them. If you invite thugs to your party, it's on your tab if they trash the joint.

There's got to be a reckoning at some point. The 2012 presidential primary is potentially a disaster for the Republicans. As bad as their 2008 field was, this one is shaping up to be far worse. I think I do hear the sound of knives being sharpened in the shop as we speak, ladies and gentlemen. May the rivers run Red and may the mortally wounded be many.

[JoeyT]

41. So you want us to lower ourselves to their level?

We should be moral cowards like the GOP? Willing to compromise any value? Willing to ignore any injustice?
All that matters is the letter and the win, I guess. Go team!

"Bashing" sheesh. No counters to criticism when the talking points run out, just calling it bashing. Like when Republicans declared anyone that didn't love Bush had "Bush Derangement syndrome".

[KakistocracyHater]

45. several Republicans left their party, said it had actually left them already

so you're wrong.