Does anyone here really think Obama will not be our candidate in 2012?

[KansasVoter]

Because you must be totally out of touch with reality if you don't!

You want a "real" progressive candidate because Obama is not liberal enough? Good luck with that! You think Obama won in a landslide because he was extremely liberal? No, he won because he was more centered!

All of us have a "perfect" candidate in mind. I want the war stopped tomorrow and single payer implemented immediately. But I realistically know there is NO CANDIDATE who could propose that and get elected, much less actually get the votes to pass it.

I'll take 100 Obama's over any GOP candidate. Am I 100% happy with everything? No, but reality plays a part in this. Should we always push for more? Yes. Should we work against Obama to get it? I don't think so.

Maybe it is just wishful thinking, but I think Obama is doing what he can to stay in favor as much as he can so that he can stay in office. Because he knows he can do more as as centered president in office in 2013 than a lefty president not in office in 2013!

[lillypaddle]

1. agree

[Syrinx]

2. 50-50 that Hillary takes him on

The Clintons are not known for loyalty.

[KansasVoter]

4. No way. It would ruin Hillary's favorable view now!

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. If she wasn't part of his admin, maybe. But I don't see it happening in this case.

[saltpoint]

7. But they're not thick. I think Obama sees no primary challenge from

anybody in 2012.

[impik]

8. Not even a 1% chance. Hillary said very clearly that

she won't try again, and she will not run against the man she works for right now. Plus, they seem to be in very good relationships.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. That assumes Hillary was being truthful.

[JTFrog]

9. What does that have to do with wanting a "real" progressive candidate? n/t

[KansasVoter]

28. A real one will not get anything done and not get elected.

[Bitwit1234]

10. What in the hell do you think the two Clintons are showing right now.

Both are showing loyalty to their president. A heck of a lot more than a lot of you on DU. Obama was not my choice Hillary was. But he got elected and I think with all his lack of experience and the fact that he is not a BS'er like Bush he is trying to get things done. I fault the group around him, especially Emannel and such.

You did not hear Hillary bash Obama the way his camp dissed her. And besides it cost too much money to run. Obama is going to have a hard time raising it this time. He has cooled off his base. And I don't think Hillary wants to go thru all that fund raising again.

Obama is going to get the nod and he will beat any republican they put up. By blocking and trying to sit them selves up as the party who will do all the crap they spew they are just showing people the mess they made during Bush's stolen reign. Obama WILL be the candidate, with no serious challengers and he WILL win.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Hillary bashed Obama plenty, but that's water under the bridge . . .

What's important is we united to elect someone who's done more for the cause than any other president since FDR and the New Deal. We need to do it again in 2012 so Obama can finish the job he started.

[Lilyeye]

82. I agree with everything you said except

"You did not hear Hillary bash Obama the way his camp dissed her."

That was one of the things that turned me off about her.

[karynnj]

86. Compare Hillary's "camp" to Obama's "camp"

That is fairer than taking anything that anyone allied to Obama said about Obama and comparing it to just what Hillary said herself - or compare just what Obama said to just what Hillary said.

Here are some clues - Bob Kerrey and "Madrasas" Mr Shaheen and "heroin" For the second comparison find anything Obama said that was as bad as Hillary (and Bill) saying that HRC or McCain was ready to deal with an international crisis on day one - and questioned if Obama was.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

22. No she won't.

[quiller4]

32. No way.

[PBS Poll-435]

36. Please don't get hit in the 'junk' by an out-of-control door/doorknob

That would suck.

[Aramchek]

37. ahahahhhahahahah! that's absolutely hilarious.

Old Allegiance dies hard, eh?

[vaberella]

39. She's far from a "real progressive' candidate though. n/t

[goclark]

72. Than why would she say she was looking at retirement?

Those words should not have come out of her mouth.

[Beacool]

81. Bullcrap!!!

Hillary will not pull a Ted Kennedy. If she ever decides to run again she'll wait until 2016.

;(

[karynnj]

87. There is a huge difference between the Carter race and this

It was already pretty clear that Carter was going to lose - which is absolutely not the case with Obama. Kennedy was ideologically FAR from Carter - he was upset that Carter would not back things like expanding health care. Clinton and Obama are very close on the spectrum.

In addition, Kennedy did not work for Carter or owe Carter anything. I read Jody Powell's book - it was clear that the Carter administration both disliked Kennedy and had no respect for him - even before he ran against Carter. (Level of animosity think DU and Blanche Lincoln and add a more personal level of contempt.)

[Skip Intro]

83. If so, 50-50 or better she'd win the nom.

Wonder how many Dems are wondering what the political landscape would look like at this point had she won the nom in 08?

[karynnj]

88. Not at all likely to be 50/50.

There has NEVER been a head to head poll on who you would prefer as President.

[WI_DEM]

115. Not likely she would defeat Obama. Apparently you and others don't look at polls and see that Dems

actually like President Obama and support him.

[karynnj]

85. No way - for many reasons

1) How would it look if Hillary Clinton were to quit her job as Secretary of State tomorrow and start the quiet exploratory part of a run for President. To many, it would seem that she was not grateful that he gave her this opportunity - rather than leaving her as a relatively junior Senator with insufficient seniority to chair a committee. Remember also that many Senators - including Reid and Schumer (from HER wing of the party) encouraged Obama to run in private. Any one wanting to challenge Obama would be doing the preliminary work now. She can't as a member of the administration and leaving abruptly would look tacky and very opportunistic.

The Clintons are insiders in the Obama Presidency. If she ran, that would end - and it would be a VERY long shot.

2) Remember 2008? Does anyone think that Hillary Clinton look comfortable and happy during most of that run. Were you fooled by the too bright smile? She is relatively thin skinned and it showed. As to Bill Clinton - he loved being out there, but he hurt as much as helped.

[Beacool]

90. Hillary thin skinned? As opposed to Obama I guess?

Now that one is funny. Hillary has the skin of a rhino. She had to grow one to withstand the political crap that has been shoveled at her since 1992.

Furthermore, Hillary did not initially want to be SOS as she liked being a senator (unlike Obama who was bored with it). She had to be persuaded to take the job. What is this expectation that she should be grateful that he offered her a job? Who do you think that you're talking about, some senator of little note outside of her own state? It is so evident that you don't know Hillary at all.

I know that you don't like the Clintons, but give me a break!!!

:7

[JTFrog]

106. LOL!

[karynnj]

111. Believe what you like

Why do I say that Hillary was thin skinned? To me, the point where the race started to turn was the first Philly debate. All of the candidates contrasted their positions to Clinton's - "attacking her" from the Clinton's point of view. This was the standard thing that happens to EVERY front runner. In Clinton's case, she was not only a front runner but was getting good press as the inevitable nominee and in fact next President. She handled most of the questions well, but was all over the map on the question of immigration and Spitzer's license proposed policy.

The debate was fine (in fact, likely good), but afterwards, Bill Clinton came out saying the attacks from the other were swiftboating (?!) and Hillary went to Wellesly and claimed it was the guys against the gal. Had Hillary taken the high road - saying the question could not be answered well in two minutes and put out a complex statement that really explained her immigration position, she would have remained above the fray the inevitable candidate.

I don't say orthink that Clinton was a little known Senator outside her state. In fact, the problem was partially the mismatch between her prominence outside the Senate and her position within the Senate. You tell me what committee she would have chaired or what legislation she would have led on. Before 2008, there was little problem as it was a stepping stone. (In addition, from 2000 - 2008, there is very little - not related to NY - that she led on.) As to loving the Senate, explain why she was absent for more than a month after all the primaries were over. If she "loved" being in the Senate, wouldn't she be back there voting?

I likely know Hillary as well as you do - I do not know her personally at all. I do know a few people who do know her well -including one who greatly admired her during the Clinton years when he was a low level person in the administration, where he worked on a social welfare issue. He worked on the same issue in NY and her absolute lack of support "broke his heart". (The vagueness is because this was a private conversation.)

[Beacool]

112. Well, I DO know her personally.

Why do you think that I'm such a staunch supporter? I would never defend as strongly as I do someone I had never even met. Without saying too much, I've known her and seen her work up close for the years that she served as a NY senator. I've seen what she does for people, quietly, without any publicity. We had people volunteering to campaign for her who weren't even Democrats. Why? Because she had helped them, a loved one or supported their cause. Despite the crap one reads on the internet, she's one terrific human being and I will continue to support her in any of her endeavors.

;-)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

113. Not likely

The Clintons *are* known for political savvy; Hillary will almost certainly reckon she'd have a better chance in 2016.

[WI_DEM]

114. HRC has been a loyal team player who will not challenge a sitting president

because she knows she would destroy the democratic party and couldn't possibly win the GE in such an atmosphere.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I'd love a progressive president, but no I don't see Obama getting primaried out by

any stretch of the imagination.

[saltpoint]

6. Obama's renomination looks very solid at this point. As for the 2012

general, I'm looking forward to the field of Republicans ripping the flesh off each others bones with their teeth during the primaries. Whoever's left standing isn't going to be in nearly as good a shape to challenge a sitting president.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Well said

[Cash U Nutt]

13. What Obama could and could not do

No, he could not implement single payer immediately. It's all about making laws and sausage, as Bismarck said.

He COULD end the wars tomorrow, or any time in the last seventeen months. An undeclared war launched by the whim of one President can be unlaunched by another, and the only people who would object are the war porn junkies who would never vote for Obama in a million years anyway.

So like it or not Obama OWNS the wars now. They are his, and every day, life, and dollar that's spent there is his responsibility.

[bigwillq]

56. Hello

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[stray cat]

15. A Kucinich challenge or something like it but nothing that causes a ripple

Progressives are unlikely to get their dream progressive elected

[Bluzmann57]

16. Kucinich will never ever be President

Nor will Bernie Sanders or Howard Dean. These guys are three of the darlings of Liberals but they have virtually no chance to be POTUS. It's doubtful that any of these men could ever muster support to make a serious run.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. It's a shame, but you're right.

[MrModerate]

19. Not so sure about Dean. He could surprise us . . .

But not in 2012.

[tritsofme]

33. Kucinich has never let lack of support or the absence of a serious campaign stop him before.

Another vanity Kucinich campaign in 2012 would not really surprise me.

[liquid diamond]

42. Vanity campaign.

:rofl:

[sunnybrook]

62. You say that now

But there was a time when Dean actually COULD have crossed that threshold. I am realistic about politics and don't think liberals can generally get their dream candidate in a general election. But it is in my opinion at least possible that at one time Dean could have done it.

Sometimes we have to envision things beyond conventional wisdom. I have a black friend that kept telling me during the last election season that there was no way Obama would get elected due to his race. And my friend is very progressive, Kuchinich was his guy. But he is a political "realist" and knows that Kuchinch stands no chance. Then when Obama got the Democratic nomination he was convinced that Dems had just committed political suicide. I think if that is possible (Obama getting elected with the legacy of racism in this country) anything is possible, including, at one time, Dean.

[cali]

63. uh, Howard Dean did muster enough support to make a credible run

and since when has Bernie ever expressed any interest whatsoever in running for prez: Here's a clue: Never.

[HughMoran]

20. I kept looking in the white space below for a sarcasm thingie

Sadly, you have stated the reality in the US at this time.

[vaberella]

40. Yup. n/t

[msongs]

21. every conservative like obama needs to be primaried by a liberal nt

[great white snark]

34. Conservative?

Moderate dem maybe but conservative?

[impik]

44. Don't you know he is worse than Bush?

[great white snark]

49. Reading here one would think so.

Oh well, guess I'm a "cheerleader"

rah rah go obama
the left's very own Dalai Lama
win win if you can
purists think you're superman!

go team!



edited fro spelling

[bigwillq]

48. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[great white snark]

50. Hello to you

Thanks for the welcome!

:hi:

[NorthCarolina]

57. He seems pretty right of center to me so far.

He's a DLC New Dem, which by all definitions is pretty much a "Corporate Conservative".

[phleshdef]

71. Thats because you have no clue where the center actually is.

[NorthCarolina]

109. I know it's clearly father left than the "center" as defined by the MSM

[BklnDem75]

35. It's easy seeing your ideal candidate...

going the McGovern/Mondale route of electoral victories. If you see Obama as a conservative, you're not even a liberal. You're out in the wilderness.

[IOKIYAL]

52. A Whopping 5% of Dems Think Obama is Not Liberal Enough

A few - 86% of Liberal Democrats STILL approve of Obama

So anyone talking primary challenge should think about those numbers.

[Enrique]

23. no, because no one is opposing him

who is keeping up sustained criticism of Obama from the left? No one in Congress that I can see. So who's going to go against him? Glenn Greenwald? Cenk Uygur? Jane Hamsher?

[pundaint]

53. That seems the most likely reason to me. But if we haven't had a genuine effort to get single payer

and is we are not completely out of Iraq and doing the final packing in Afghanistan, I'll still be voting for someone else. I will only vote for what I want in future, since the party leadership has officially said they don't care about people with my priorities.

[phleshdef]

24. At the end of the day, Obama will sign every progressive legislation that hits his desk.

He isn't even close to being the problem.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. He may get a third party challenge, but no one within the party will primary him,

unless they want to be laughed off the stage. We could very well see a Nader clone come to the fore as a publicity stunt, and they'll be heralded by uber liberals like Thom Hartmann, but most serious liberals (86% of us) don't want a repeat of 2000.

[thelordofhell]

74. Nader "clone"?? It's going to be Nader.

Honestly, I'm more worried about the orgy of coverage the "Liberal" media is going to give the republican primaries. There's going to be practically no coverage of President Obama during this time while the media will fawn all over the republicans. Count on it.

[Catherina]

26. He might be yours. He sure as hell won't be mine. Not a dime. Not a phone call. n/t

[KansasVoter]

27. So you are fine if Obama losses?

[pundaint]

68. If he doesn't start fighting for his campaign pledges, I will not only be fine if he loses, I will

have been complicit. I voted for a set of programs, not a party. Naming a thing reform doesn't make it reform. I certainly voted against war, gitmo, theft of civil liberties, and to stop buying medical care from financial institutions. As an advocate in the Peoples interest, Obama is weak indeed.

I am no longer scared by imaginary bogeymen, if this president is so constrained by the minority by doing good, wouldn't a Democratic minority be able to constrain a Republican majority from doing bad? You bet, but neither party insists on good, so I'll just keep rolling incumbents over until I find one that works. The ones I have in MA2, MA, and the White House, ain't getting it done.

[KansasVoter]

93. Let me know who your dream candidate is

[BlueIris]

29. I don't believe he will, no. nt

[Kitsune]

30. I can dream. :(

[zalinda]

31. I honestly don't think he will run

He has made his mark on history. He's done. He has mentioned before about being a one term President. He can now go out and make speeches (something he is good at), and make tons of money.

zalinda

[Aramchek]

38. think again. he has talked several times about being in til 2016

and the only time he has mentioned one term is to say that he is willing to take the risk of being a one-termer if that's what it takes to get things done.

He already has a ton of money.
He would rather change the World.

Enjoy the next 6 years of Obama!

[zalinda]

43. Someone like him, never has enough money. n/t

[impik]

45. Shame on you. You know absolutely nothing about the man and his life. I hope you'll

suffer him for 6 more years.

[great white snark]

46. What? Wait. Huh?

You do know he turned down lucrative jobs to be a community organizer, right? A whopping $12,000/yr to start for that job. You really think he's money hungry? What in his history makes you think so?

[impik]

47. Don't bother with that ignorant

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

64. nothing like crazy talk to spice up a thread.

[sufrommich]

65. lol! A real Manchurian candidate, amirite?

I'll bet you think his birth certificate is fake too.

[liquid diamond]

41. The only way Obama won't be our candidate in 2012 is if he

decides to step down. All this talk about him being defeated by a progressive in the primaries is idiocy. Let these fools "dream".

[pundaint]

54. The dreaming fools may be those who think progressives will again vote for Democrats now that we are

officially dismissed. The strategy may work, the Democrats may be far enough right to tap into Republican support. But just for the record, I'd rather be a progressive fool than an arrogant DLC supporting asshole. And I see the latter as a bigger risk to the party and country.

[liquid diamond]

59. Cry me a river. You people are always complaining

about how you are persecuted and ignored. Boo fucking hoo. You talk a lot of shit but come election time you will fall in line because you have no place to go. That is unless you want to trash your vote on a third party candidate that has no chance at being elected or you can side with the republicans. It's time to stop dreaming and wake the fuck up. Politics isn't pretty. It's the lesser of two evils whether you like it or not.

[pundaint]

60. Some people are too stupid to understand that some very liberal progressive socialists feel that

their vote has been trashed with every Democratic vote since Carter. Those people may still fall in line. Not so much for many others of us. If you make our vote useless, then you can no longer threaten us with making our vote useless. That was the difference in the MA senate race, and that will be the difference in a few more close races unless things change.

I do find it interesting that the right side of the democratic continuum, employs the same nasty tone, meeting strong differences of opinion with the kind of mocking that rarely persists all the way to middle school in most people - just like one hears on right-wing talk radio. Go figure.

[treestar]

69. When you are part of a very small fringe minority

In politics it gets you nowhere to demand that your dreams be enacted immediately.

Go and join and vote for a third party rather than trash the people actually trying to get somewhere with the electorate that actually exists in reality.

[pundaint]

76. That's not what Joe Lieberman told me.

[savalez]

95. Amen treestar!

There's been a lot of complaining around here lately about what's not being done and not enough enthusiasm for the things that Obama is doing in the face of possibly the most vicious bipartisanship in history. Sorry but I doubt most here would even last a week in his job.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

99. Boutique progressives make up less than .1% of the country.

They're only a majority in certain echo chambers of the internet.

[saltpoint]

73. Agree -- so long as Obama wants a second term it seems to me his

re-nomination is all but assured and his re-election in the general looking very good indeed.

As for the general, I believe the Republicans are in dangerously shallow waters. Joe Barton's apology to BP for the White House "shakedown" is just one example of how unfocused and undisciplined they've become. They have to talk crazy talk to be nominated but the same crazy talk repels many voters for a general election. They are increasingly vulnerable to a breakaway run by the Baggers, which will reduce their vote totals and donor coffers. The GOP is turning into Crazy Al's fireworks store on the Tennessee border.

[Hekate]

103. The only way he won't be our candidate in 2012 is if a grieving President Biden...

... is laying a wreath for him.

Obama is not a quitter. I agree with you about the dreaming fools.

Hekate

[girl gone mad]

51. I hope he doesnt' run.

Let someone with a spine and a heart lead this party out of the depths of rapacious greed and destruction.

Haven't the corporatists done enough damage to this country? How much more can our environment take? How much more does the middle class need to suffer? Now he talks austerity and a VAT tax, after handing the treasury over to Wall St? Ugh. Let someone who understands economics have a shot at it.

[sea_dream]

55. He has my continued support

Today, I saw one of those bumper stickers with a picture of W saying "Miss me yet?". I wanted to chase down the driver and shout "NO, NEVER!!!".

[savalez]

96. The only guy who missed Bush was the guy who threw the shoe! (Bill Maher)

[Hippo_Tron]

58. What the hell does it really matter if the President is more progressive?

Obama governs a country where large amounts of the populace vote blatantly against their own economic interests and congress is bought and paid for by powerful interests. Obama proposes legislation that he believes he can get signed into law because that's how it works. A more "progressive" president proposing legislation that doesn't get passed would be no substantial difference.

[lovelyrita]

67. Have you tried talking to people about health care reform?

I do all the time in Central Florida. When I actually talk to people, listen to their complaints about the insurance at work, a sick kid, or paying tons out of pocket for a small procedure, I ask if they think it would be better to have a universal system that was paid for from our taxes. I explain that it would be cheaper and everyone would be covered. That discussion can turn even conservative voters, which there are many where I live, to agree with a single payer system.

I'm only one person who tries to engage those around me. Why is the DNC, the POTUS, and the Congress unable to do so? Is it because the country leans to the right or is it that our politicians are corporate tools that really support the status quo? I believe it is the later. That we could have actual change if those in power actually wanted it and took the time to explain issues to the American people.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Congress is bought and paid for

And additionally narrow interests (such as those employed by a health insurance company) hold a lot of sway over the members of congress that represent them. Not only that, but there's a cognitive dissonance with a lot of those people that you explain these things to. If you frame it as universal health care, they might like it. If it is framed as "government run" or "socialized medicine" they won't like it. The insurance industry has unlimited money to run television ads that frame it as something undesirable and we don't have unlimited funds to counter that.

[pundaint]

66. Does anybody think it matters which party runs Washington?

Because, if you do, you're as goofy as one who would as a question, and then pre-emptively insult a significant portion of their responders.

[Bert]

101. In some things yes, in others no

We still have the same governing problems, maybe it is only a matter of degree. If there were two more Roberts on the supreme court I think it would make a huge difference. It is up to us to hold Obama's feet to the fire and not let him squander the work we did to get him elected. We must make him act like a democrat and remind him that we and only we are the reasons he is in office and we and only we are the ones who give him a chance to get reelected or to accomplish anything. Even Roosevelt needed a push from the left now and then, and apparently Obama needs a very firm shove.

[totodeinhere]

70. I think our best chance for a bona fide progressive candidate is 2016.

I don't know who that will be and Biden will probably be too old to run. There are several good possibilities I can think of. Of course, whether or not our corporate masters would let a real progressive have a legitimate chance is another matter.

[mochajava666]

92. +1

[Bert]

102. Honest question

Do you think Hillary would have been more left or at least more effective? We tend to lionize the defeated but I sure cant help but wonder what things would look like now if it had been her that was elected. Obama doesent appear to be nearly as liberal as I thought he was. Maybe he is just too much a pragmatist to push for dramatic change.

[JTFrog]

107. Given her voting history, not a chance.

She sided with the repubs and conservadems while in the senate. She failed miserably at health care reform and pushed NAFTA while her husband was president. And she's been chomping at the bit to obliterate Iran.

Thanks, but no thanks.

:eyes:

[VMI Dem]

75. Unfortunately, he will.

[paulk]

78. if unemployment stays where it is (above 9%)

and we go into a double dip recession (which more than one notable economists see happening) it is very possible that Obama will at least be challenged in the primary.

and remember - Obama may have won the election because he is a centrist, but he won the primary because he led a lot of people to believe he was a liberal.

[Drunken Irishman]

84. Only idiots believed that...

[paulk]

91. instead of the usual idiotic one liner

perhaps you'd care to argue the point?

[Drunken Irishman]

98. No need to argue an idiotic point...

If it were valid, I'd agree. But anyone who thought Obama ran as a liberal in the primary either wasn't paying attention, fooled themselves or was just plain dumb.

[paulk]

110. you're right

a lot of people weren't paying attention, were fooling themselves, or were just plain dumb...

[Zavulon]

79. Big difference what people want and what they think will happen.

If Hillary runs against Obama, she'll probably be our candidate.

[JTFrog]

108. Roflmao.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. No...but in some twisted way, I hope he doesn't run...

Okay, I really don't. I think, though, I have a morbid fascination with the idea of him telling the left fringe to go fuck themselves, dropping out, supporting a radical leftist who then goes and gets creamed 538-0 in the electoral college.

It'd be kind of vindictive on his part, so I doubt he'd do it.

[Jennicut]

89. Support from 85% of Dems in many polls. Not going to be primaried out.

Will he run again? At around 50% approval, you don't quit. Someone would knock you upside your head if you did.

[savalez]

94. Well said KansasVoter! Agreed.

[rpannier]

97. Like everything else, time will tell

If the economy were to tank and his approvals were under 35 (within the Party) then yes.

I've learned in politics, to never rule anything out

[Bert]

100. If he isnt we'll lose

It would take a democratic civil war to have another candidate for our 12. If Obama isnt you can kiss off all the black voters for starters. You have to dance with who took you. And I am very dissapointed in Obama's lack of seizing the initiative on seemingly everything at least to the degree I wish he would have, except when he seizes it to become republican lite.

[PufPuf23]

104. 2012 is POTUS Obama's if he wants it. He has my vote although

I am disappointed in many ways and specifically did not want Hillary. Obama has been close to what I expeted from Hillary but a more positive public image of Obama. Obama's charisma may well backfire with blowback after all the hope for better on his election.

He has stated he may be a one term POTUS and I would not be surprised to see Obama pull an LBJ.

Obama was a gifted a shit sandwich and an opposition more concerned that he fail than the USA improve; Obama made many disappointing appointments to me and the Gulf Gusher is a huge environmental catastophy that will dominate the rest of this term unless hot war or economic collapse occurs.

[SkyDaddy7]

105. THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is nice to see someone here on DU understands reality!

[politicasista]

116. No

In the end, it will be his decision, but expect he will run in 2012.

[William Z. Foster]

117. no discussion possible

There can be no discussion about this. So why post it?