(((PEAK (fucking) OIL! )))

[FrenchieCat]

"...oil is a finite resource. We consume more than 20% of the world's oil, but have less than 2% of the world's oil reserves. And that's part of the reason oil companies are drilling a mile beneath the surface of the ocean - because we're running out of places to drill on land and in shallow water.

For decades, we have known the days of cheap and easily accessible oil were numbered. For decades, we have talked and talked about the need to end America's century-long addiction to fossil fuels. And for decades, we have failed to act with the sense of urgency that this challenge requires. Time and again, the path forward has been blocked - not only by oil industry lobbyists, but also by a lack of political courage and candor.

The consequences of our inaction are now in plain sight. Countries like China are investing in clean energy jobs and industries that should be here in America. Each day, we send nearly $1 billion of our wealth to foreign countries for their oil. And today, as we look to the Gulf, we see an entire way of life being threatened by a menacing cloud of black crude.

We cannot consign our children to this future. The tragedy unfolding on our coast is the most painful and powerful reminder yet that the time to embrace a clean energy future is now. Now is the moment for this generation to embark on a national mission to unleash American innovation and seize control of our own destiny."

President Barack Obama, June 15, 2010

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2010/06/we_will_fight_this_spill_with.html

PEAK OIL:
Peak oil is the point in time when the maximum rate of global petroleum extraction is reached, after which the rate of production enters terminal decline. This concept is based on the observed production rates of individual oil wells, and the combined production rate of a field of related oil wells. The aggregate production rate from an oil field over time usually grows exponentially until the rate peaks and then declines—sometimes rapidly—until the field is depleted. This concept is derived from the Hubbert curve, and has been shown to be applicable to the sum of a nation’s domestic production rate, and is similarly applied to the global rate of petroleum production.



The Hirsch report
Main article: Hirsch report
In 2005, the United States Department of Energy published a report titled Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation, & Risk Management.<139> Known as the Hirsch report, it stated, "The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

[FrenchieCat]

1. Peak Oil.......

something no other President has ever talked about.

This President does so in his first fucking Oval Office address,
But of course, as usual....we didn't even fucking hear him...
cause that's what we do.

[Raine1967]

36. Oh, I heard it.

Hubby and I talked about it afterwards.

You had to LISTEN to what he was saying. THis was not his most charismatic address/speech (whatever) but dammit, he said an awful lot of very important things. This part is also VERY important:

Beyond compensating the people of the Gulf in the short term, it’s also clear we need a long-term plan to restore the unique beauty and bounty of this region. The oil spill represents just the latest blow to a place that’s already suffered multiple economic disasters and decades of environmental degradation that has led to disappearing wetlands and habitats. And the region still hasn’t recovered from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. That’s why we must make a commitment to the Gulf Coast that goes beyond responding to the crisis of the moment.

I make that commitment tonight. Earlier, I asked Ray Mabus, the Secretary of the Navy, who is also a former governor of Mississippi and a son of the Gulf Coast, to develop a long-term Gulf Coast Restoration Plan as soon as possible. The plan will be designed by states, local communities, tribes, fishermen, businesses, conservationists and other Gulf residents. And BP will pay for the impact this spill has had on the region.



This is VERY important stuff.

[FrenchieCat]

38. I agree. I think those who weren't familiar or had not thought about it

heard the concept clearly....and that is important.

[jwirr]

2. That first paragraph is what I liked. For many that is the first time they

have heard this. This is where we have to start at. Until the people on the street understand this we are not going to get much done about the future needs of this planet.

[FrenchieCat]

3. Aye!

Most don't know what Peak Oil is.
But now they should be getting an idea.

[Cha]

24. It was an excellent point in the speech..thanks

for bringing it up.

[Jennicut]

4. Went over a lot of people's heads, didn't it?

[FrenchieCat]

5. Folks only didn't hear what they wanted not to hear......

[Jennicut]

6. My husband is not political. He listened mostly to the end of the President's speech and

then turned on a few stations and came across Sarah Palin. Contrasted how the Rethugs just have their heads obviously stuck in their heads. For people like him, this was a big call to clean energy. My husband came away saying, the President is right, and we won't have oil forever. Even he got that.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I'm telling you....most people listened to the speech, but didn't really hear it.

They wanted to hear something they themselves had thought should be in there,
and when they didn't hear that, the entire speech was forgotten.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Fucking Republicans Moles unrec'ing this OP......

or as they call them here:

Non-'peakists'
can be divided into several different categories based on their specific criticism of peak oil. Some claim that any peak will not come soon or have a dramatic effect on the world economies. Others claim we will not reach a peak for technological reasons, while still others claim our oil reserves are quickly regenerated abiotically.

No peak oil
The view that oil extraction will never enter a depletion phase is often referred to as "cornucopian" in ecology and sustainability literature.<130><131><132>

Abdullah S. Jum'ah, President, Director and CEO of Saudi Aramco states that the world has adequate reserves of conventional and nonconventional oil sources that will last for more than a century.<133><134> As recently as 2008 he pronounced "We have grossly underestimated mankind’s ability to find new reserves of petroleum, as well as our capacity to raise recovery rates and tap fields once thought inaccessible or impossible to produce.” Jum’ah believes that in-place conventional and non-conventional liquid resources may ultimately total between 13 trillion and 16 trillion barrels and that only a small fraction (1.1 trillion) has been extracted to date.<135>

“ I do not believe the world has to worry about ‘peak oil’ for a very long time. ”
— Abdullah S. Jum'ah, 2008-01<135>

[bigwillq]

8. Do you really care that someone un'recd

your thread? Does it really bother you that someone unrec'd you on a freaking message board? Aren't there more important things to worry about?

[FrenchieCat]

9. It was a nice way for me to discuss the Non-'peakists'.....

If you don't mind.

Some folks reading may not have known about this term.
Now they do.

Is that OK with you? :shrug:

[bigwillq]

13. Couldn't you have made your point

without whining about the unrec'ers?

[FrenchieCat]

15. So why are you whining about my whining then?

I mean really.

[Berserker]

20. I want to whin about the whining of people whining

anyway GREAT post.

[niceypoo]

30. It's called 'backpedaling'

[FrenchieCat]

31. Just call it whining and then whining about the whine......

I'll live. LOl!

[niceypoo]

33. I would agree

It fits in the 'whining' category fer sure. Congratulations!!

[FrenchieCat]

45. Thanks for your contribution!

:rofl:

[Turborama]

14. I noticed the same thing happened here...

Twice, so far: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4428590

Before anyone asks, the reason I bring it up is because I'd really like the cowards to bring it on, instead of unrec'ing without comment.


:hi:

:kick: & R

[FrenchieCat]

18. I went and rec'ed!

Because yes, that's what the general public need to understand; this oil shit can't go on forever,
so hey.....let's do something about it like NOW!

[Turborama]

22. Thank you

For the rec and your tireless efforts. :fistbump: :yourock:

[Hydra]

21. I have a better question

Given what just happened(and all the other negatives involved), if we had infinite oil, would we really want to continue like this?

[FrenchieCat]

23. If we had infinite oil, we wouldn't be drilling 5,000 feet down.....

is the suggestion. Why would one need to do that? :shrug:

[Cha]

25. Right..just reminded me of

when he talked about the moratorium on deep water drilling and how he knew it was disappointing some but they had to do it for SAFETY.

[Hydra]

26. We don't have to drill in dangerous areas to have spills

We just had one in Salt Lake City. Smaller, but just as ugly.

BP also spilled again in Alaska while we had the main gusher.

That's even before we get into burning it.

Why do we want to use it in the first place, beyond the profits for various people?

[FrenchieCat]

27. We should definitely be getting away from it....

just look at the way things look in the ME!

[niceypoo]

29. Thin skin

[FrenchieCat]

32. And this contributes what here exactly?

I say nothing.

[niceypoo]

34. Thin skin leads to personal attacks, division, and anger

...and childish overreaction.

Not sure I could consider that a contribution...

[FrenchieCat]

39. Ironic......

because beyond the snark, I can't locate your contribution to this thread.

[niceypoo]

44. Indeed you dont see it

That is obvious

"Fucking Republicans Moles unrec'ing this OP......"
"Just call it whining and then whining about the whine...."
...and other pertinent 'contributions.'

'dont do as I do, do as I say'

[Donnachaidh]

46. it points out a VERY obvious fact

:rofl: :rofl:

[liam_laddie]

48. Abdullah S. Jum'ah just MIGHT be...

referencing oil which is not fossil-based in origin. I think most of us laypeople have assumed that petroleum formation follows the "dead plant-to-peat-to-coal-to-liquid hydrocarbon" cycle, created by heat and pressures generated as the fossil layers are subsumed deeper into the earth's "skin."

There are suggestions afoot that the current oil leak originates from much deeper than the 18,000 feet below seabed so far mentioned. Perhaps 35-40,000 feet, which could be tapping into the "abiotic" or "abiogenic" layers. Russians and Ukrainians seem to be at the forefront in this field (no pun intended.)

There are apparently other processes at work deeper down in the mantle/crust. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the science, but am extremely interested in the discussion... Here are a couple links to get you started:
<http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1130.html> from 2008

<http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/400230-vinod-dar/47079-abiotic-oil-and-gas-a-theory-that-refuses-to-vanish>

It's clear that Big Energy has an interest in suppressing this information; it creates a scarcity factor, leading to higher prices. What have the other posters discovered about this?

[Patsy Stone]

11. K&R!

[FrenchieCat]

19. That's a big one......

getting the masses to understand the meaning of Peak Oil.....
in under 2 minutes!

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

16. Ain't that the truth. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

17. That's why I mainly stay away.

Came back today simply because there was a speech today.
Those who want me gone will get their wish for sure....
cause these days, debate is simply snark, unrecs,
and stilted headlines that portray the worse. Sad.

[apocalypsehow]

28. K & R. n/t.

[racaulk]

35. K&R

[madamesilverspurs]

37. Pleased to K and R

This needs to be shouted over and over until even the media talking heads hear it.

-

[L0oniX]

40. Unfortunately we will continue to increase the usage of oil ...like lemmings going off the cliff.

All this was known from M. King Hubbert decades ago and has been ignored since then. It's too late to make the "great turn" away from oil. Now it's a matter of national security for the military to which we will spend all we have to support until it drives us into hell.

http://hubbert.mines.edu/
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/

[depakid]

41. Somehow, I don't think you grasp the concept(s)

[L0oniX]

42. I don't think you understand just how much oil the military uses.

[depakid]

43. That doesn't vitiate the laws of thermodynamics

They're rather cruel and unassailable- even by the military.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[liam_laddie]

49. Thanks, ohwinston!

Please see my post #48 which expands a bit on your information. I think you're absolutely correct. Although I hope (maybe pray is better...) that there IS a way to suppress the leak. Kinda doubt it, though. :scared:

[FrenchieCat]

50. Looks like your friend has gone Poof!

He was a Non-Peakist.....and used that odd cut and past font type, him and his one post.

With friends like that, folks will get the creeps! :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

54. I meant 2 posts!

[ohwinston]

51. Frenchie Cat peak oil

There is a belief which is presented as a proven fact that
peak oil exists.  Therefore, we must
collapse the evil industrial society in America and ride a
bike to work.  That work will be for no
pay.  There will be no jobs with benefits.  Social Security
must be abolished and Medicare as well.
That is because there are too many people in America.  Of
course, in order to save the world there
must be a carbon tax.  It must become so expensive to live in
America that we revert back to a 
hunter gatherer society.  Preserve the Reagan tax cuts; FICA
was increased seven times to save them.

The alternative is that peak oil is a hoax.  As others are
aware abiotic oil has been established by
a careful examination of earth history and the amount of crude
oil thus far extracted.  It is a process deep within the earth
that produces hydrocarbons.  The Russians drilled a well and
hit one
of these migratory channels at a depth exceeding forty two
thousand feet.  That has now happened in
the Gulf.  With pressures of thirty to seventy thousand pounds
per square inch this abiotic oil is
flooding the Gulf at a rate exceeding one hundred thousand
barrels per day.  This may continue for
thirty or more years.  At the present time forty percent of
the floor of the Gulf is covered in a
lake of this substance which apparently does not conform to
the density concepts which would ordinarily cause it to float
to the surface.  A video on DU substantiates this claim.

It must be pointed out that BP is a hedge fund.  Just as in
9/11 where massive short selling took
place on airline stocks it may be assumed that a similar fraud
has happened here.  Twenty billion
dollars, although more than in my checking account, will not
be sufficient to cover the damages which
will be in the trillions of dollars.   Thank you for the
opportunity to express what millions of
others know.  Be brave DU.

[bigwillq]

52. Again?

:shrug:

[Hissyspit]

53. The alternative is that abiotic oil is a hoax.

[liam_laddie]

56. True, it may be, but

some geologists think that oil veins or reservoirs at depths of 7-8 miles are too deep to have been formed from decomposed fossil-based material, even if under heat and pressure. I dunno, has anyone proved the Russians wrong? Any deep earth geologists posting on DU?
I realize a lot has happened around here in the last 10+ billion years (6,000 for the fundie trolls)- perhaps fossil-based oil could be so deeply "buried." I just wish someone who really knows the science would let us in on any secrets. YMMV...
:shrug:

[Cleobulus]

66. "I dunno, has anyone proved the Russians wrong?"

SCIENCE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Someone who really knows science...

will simply tell you that there is not and never has been any oil ever found or that ever will be found that is deeper than those layers which were deposited after the spread of life on earth.

Abiotic oil is a fucking dumb ass hoax that anybody with a high school diploma shouldn't be taking seriously.

[liam_laddie]

68. Hoaxes...

<http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/400230-vinod-dar/47079-abiotic-oil-and-gas-a-theory-that-refuses-to-vanish>
I'll grant you that it's possible the Russians who support this concept might be propagandizing to knock down the market price of petroleum (peak oil ahead) but perhaps they're on to something which Big Oil wants suppressed.
I'm merely curious, not taking a stand pro/con "abiogenic oil." I provided some links in #48 for discussion, not for "fucking dumb ass..." remarks like yours. You appear to have a closed mind about this...if you know all the facts, how about posting some examples? I dare say the people referenced in the link above just might have more than a high school diploma. Is your doubt an example of American "exceptionalism?" Or just "conventional wisdom?"
Way back when, flat-earthers once held sway... :eyes:

[liam_laddie]

55. Thanks for re-posting.

:fistbump:
I imagine the initial deletion of your post #47 was due to calling the C-in-C a c###p. Moderators here are very sensitive about that stuff... Perhaps a sarcasm tag after the first paragraph would help, if I take that meaning correctly.

I think few people here or anywhere for that matter are aware of the possibility of this being abiogenic/abiotic oil. It apparently does have different properties, at least somewhat different chemistry, than "traditional" petroleum. Maybe someone will analyze some spill samples reaching the shores and wetlands, if it floats...

[Subdivisions]

59. Abiotic oil???? Bwahahahahahahahah! Woo!

You're really funny!

[liam_laddie]

62. Glad you got a laugh out of it.

I'm a skeptic by nature (in the classical sense, not the current "cynical" slant of the term.) I'd love to see more than a snarky header from you. Like disprove the concept!
You accept that all "oil" was formerly plant or animal material, just decomposed over eons and transformed by heat and pressure into our national addiction?
I'd say that's a very limited viewpoint; all too often demonstrated on DU over the last few years. Unless you're a PhD geologist, expert in the field of oil exploration, your guess is no better than my curiosity. Open mind?

[Subdivisions]

63. Me disprove it? That's not how it works. You PROVE IT! Abiotic oil...LOL! n/t

[mnhtnbb]

57. Blah, blah, blah. The time to embrace a clean energy future was during Carter's administration.

We are long past the moment. And guess who blocked it? Reagan and his crony capitalists.

President Obama, if you mean what you say, you will get off your speechifying, making nice
with the opposition behavior, and show some leadership. Go for broke.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Subdivisions]

60. Yep. It's too late. And we'll pay for ignoring it. Dearly. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

61. I thought his whole problem yesterday is that he didn't give that flowery speech....

and then today, he went into high impact action.

[Subdivisions]

64. Yes, his performance today was quite impressive. n/t

[Laelth]

58. I do give him credit for being honest with the American people. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[4dsc]

65. Most people are in denial over peak oil

Because we are for the most part a narcissistic nation who have enjoyed the great period in our nations history because of cheap and plentiful oil, we cannot see beyond our own noses what the future holds in a society with less oil, a lot less oil.

[ohwinston]

69. peak oil Frenchie Cat

What is true beyond any reasonable  doubt is that BP in an
effort to equal what the Russians have
done by tapping into abiogenic oil drove the events in the
Gulf.  This unrestrained greed coupled
with the mania for de-regulation and the apparent abundant
corruption in the Federal government has
caused what may become a life ending event for millions of
people.

Based on that I think it is time to recognize that Ford
exports cars to Europe that get more than
sixty miles per gallon using diesel.  Conservation over the
past thirty plus years would have saved
tens of billions of barrels of oil.   Peak oil is a hoax. 
Please feel free to disagree.

[rpannier]

70. Caught this post too late to rec

Excellent post
Lots of good information (As Usual)
Thanks so much

[stuart68]

71. My third grade teacher said the same thing...

based on confirmed science, the world would be out of oil by 2000.

these theories fail to account for scientific creativity. We can talk electric cars all we want, but when under the gun, Ford introduces a 350hp Mustang that gets 33 mpg, and the Tesla batteries run dry in 35 miles. Unless forced to, people will not all subscribe to electric cars (etc) if I can get 33mpg and 350hp.