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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 05:45 AM
Original message
Miami Herald: How Obama decided to expand offshore oil drilling
Edited on Sun Jun-13-10 11:59 AM by undergroundrailroad
Weeks before the world had ever heard of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig, President Barack Obama stood in the Roosevelt Room of the White House poring over maps of oil drilling sites in the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska and elsewhere.

Satisfied that he knew all he needed to know and confident that it was safe, he decided to propose expanded offshore drilling. "This is not a decision that I've made lightly," he said when he unveiled his proposal on March 31. "Oil rigs today generally don't cause spills," he added two days later. "They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn't come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore."

On April 20, the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded, setting off the largest oil spill in U.S. history. It drove Obama to freeze the proposal he'd just made.

An in-depth review by McClatchy Newspapers reveals how Obama reached that initial decision to expand offshore drilling - and why he failed to get information that might have led him instead to delay or oppose it and perhaps even raise questions about the deepwater drilling that was already under way.

Obama did roll back some of the offshore drilling that the George W. Bush administration had approved on Bush's last day in office. However, Obama never challenged the Bush era's fundamental faith in the oil industry or its ability to clean up a massive spill. Instead, he embraced expanded offshore drilling, in part to win Republican support for broader legislation to curb climate change.

"He deserved to be more skeptical," said Stephen Hess, a veteran of four White Houses back to the Eisenhower administration and an expert on how presidents do their job.

"They hadn't thought through the various ramifications. They should have, obviously. But it didn't seem obvious at the time."

"Not well thought through," said Rick Steiner, a retired University of Alaska marine scientist. "If they had really done their job, they would have understood there was high risk here."

More: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/13/1677900/how-obama-decided-to-expand-offshore.html#ixzz0qjF5Q1jl
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. "-Obama thought that funneling information through White House "czars"
...such as energy and environment adviser Carol Browner would get him all the data he needed."

Carol Browner is incompetent? How do they know what Obama "thought"?

"White House 'czars'"?

Who wrote this Sarah Palin?

"Top Obama administration officials say that they did an exhaustive job marshaling information for more than a year..."

Not good enough?

An in-depth review by McClatchy Newspapers reveals how Obama reached that initial decision to expand offshore drilling - and why he failed to get information that might have led him instead to delay or oppose it and perhaps even raise questions about the deepwater drilling that was already under way.


Yeah, an in-depth review shows how President Obama's decision-making about a policy yet to be enacted caused the BP oil spill.


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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. As I've said- and many other more experienced observers have noted too- it's all coming out
This is one of many, many more investigative pieces to come. Each will lay out more pieces of the puzzle.

Some will be better researched and more factual than others- some will tend more toward polemics- and some will just pose questions.

What sort this one is- anyone can see and read for themselves.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. "This is one of many, many more investigative pieces to come. "
This isn't an investigative piece. It's actually a lame hit piece, very lame.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hope your typing's up to speed- because you haven't seen anything yet....
This is a fairly mild, reasonable and honest piece written before the all too real consequences have set in.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. As opposed to several lame puff pieces, very lame.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I made the point
Obama thought that funneling information through White House "czars" such as energy and environment adviser Carol Browner would get him all the data he needed.


How do they know what "Obama thought"? And is it your belief that the President relying on his administration, specifically Carol Browner, is a negative?

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Not a point.
A belief. How do you know what Obama thought? And it it your belief that relying on a tiny coterie of advisors is a good thing? It hasn't served him well yet.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I have concerns about relying on Browner.
Specifically I have concerns that she was making millions in 2008 working for her husband's firm, lobbying for energy companies.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. It's not what I'd call investigative either, but it's not lame, and it's
not a hit piece. :shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. It is a hit piece.
Edited on Sun Jun-13-10 10:11 AM by ProSense
The President announced his policy nearly two months ago. Why all of a sudden is this organization trying to claim that he didn't do due diligence, implying that this contributed to the BP disaster? Does anyone really believe the President crafted an energy policy with no input from outside experts?

Seriously, look at this claim: "He didn't reach out to outside experts..."

From the same article:

"Absolutely not true," Browner said in an interview. "There was a lot of time and energy spent on this ... trying to determine what was the appropriate thing to do."

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar gathered information about oil drilling for a year, including public hearings in Alaska, California, Louisiana and New Jersey. More than 530,000 comments were collected.


Are they suggesting that those hearings were with non-experts?







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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Tain't.
So Browner, whose influences are all inside corporate energy "says" she worked hard on this. Then Salazar "says" he gathered info. But the problem identified in the OP is that the president only hears what info after it is filtered through his corporate culture insiders.

You asked: "Does anyone really believe the President crafted an energy policy with no input from outside experts?" Well. Yes. That's the point of the article. Many of us feel that he is insulated from outside opinion, that he makes decisions from within a filtered environment. Just because somebody from somewhere on his staff got a piece of information from someone knowledgeable doesn't mean that it reached the table where the decisions were made. Surely you don't want to argue that Obama read the MMS report referenced in the OP and then heard from those who did actually have good information and then went ahead and sided with corporate energy interests. Are you accusing him of ignoring good advice about the environment for political reasons, accusing him of putting our planet and our lives in jeopardy even though he knew better? Kind of harsh, don't you think?

You are also wanting it both ways. It is a nasty hit piece according to you, but then you use the same piece to "prove" the president was doing the right thing. Anything, just anything to support your preconceived agenda that the president never did anything wrong about anything anywhere. Or can you perhaps list a few items that the president has or hasn't done that you find upsetting and less than decent. If you do, I will share a number of my delights at his term.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. "Many of us feel that he is insulated from outside opinion"
In other words, the gist of the piece is that the President is clueless about what's really going on, which is why I consider it a hit piece.

"You are also wanting it both ways. It is a nasty hit piece according to you, but then you use the same piece to "prove" the president was doing the right thing."

"Are you accusing him of ignoring good advice about the environment for political reasons, accusing him of putting our planet and our lives in jeopardy even though he knew better?"

No, you are. Actually, you're assuming his administration is unable to provide him with sound advice.





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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Glad you finally agree.
Let me define a hit piece for you. It would be one where all the points are unfounded. I certainly hope the president is clueless in this case. The alternative, that he knew drilling was dangerous and unsupported environmentally but then recommended more for political success, is terrible. Do you really think he is that callous and self-serving? You really think he is that ghoulish?

As for your second sentence. Thank you for repeating my point. Did you have any comment to go with it or are you just in full agreement that your tactic is silly?

Then you last sentence starts to answer the question by saying no. Then you go totally off logic and say that I am. You don't seem to understand what you read. My point is not that he is ignoring good advice. It is that he isn't getting good advice. If you think he is getting good advice and then doing the very things that advice told him were perilous to the earth, then you are accusing him of heinous acts. Logically, the only path you have here to your tediously consistent goal of equating Obama with God, is to say that the advice he got about calling for more drilling in deep waters was good advice. Is that your opinion? (I'll give you time to check if it is.)

Also, still waiting to see if you want to go on record with anything, any thing, that Obama has said or done or not said or done that you find wrong. I'll flag my posts celebrating the things I find admirable then. Then we will have a better idea of who is more balanced.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. No agreement. I don't happen to believe the President is clueless.
"Let me define a hit piece for you. It would be one where all the points are unfounded."

Which is why it's lame. Not only is claiming that the President erred in listening to his own administration and consulted no outside experts less than credible, including information that directly counters it makes it makes it even more so.

This is basically a piece that calls on its readers to trust its critical assessment (which, absurdly enough, includes that the President listened to his administration) despite the adminstration's statements.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. So you think drilling more is a good idea?
That is the only possible end result of you reasoning. Sure you want to go there?

Your arguments are sophism. You say the piece calls on readers to trust its critical assessment, but you want readers to trust you critical assessment.

Now we can go on playing this game of semantics and you can keep the trail wandering wherever you want. People quit reading this sub thread long ago. But it does keep the thread and the OP high in the GDP forum, and I believe the OP is a valuable piece of information. Your insistence on avoiding any position (other than Obama always perfect) and tacking off in odd directions taken from minutiae only help bring this OP to those who might have missed it.

So. How about that list of things you can identify where you didn't like something, again anything, about this administration? I have a whole list of my pleasures from his short term in office. Let's trade.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. "you want readers to trust you critical assessment. "
Where on earth did I ask anyone to "trust" my assessment. People can make up their own minds.

The article isn't logical, IMO. The President isn't clueless, IMO. You are free to believe it.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. Senseless gibberish
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 03:11 PM by Jakes Progress
If people are allowed to make up their own minds then why do you complain that the article wants the reader to trust its critical assessment. Over and over you make an argument that is counter to the argument you make in the immediately preceding post. Do you even try to keep up with what you write?

Then we have the crowning jewel of illogic in you last para. You claim the article isn't logical. You offer no reason why. You only claim the president isn't clueless (something not claimed) as a refutation of the logic of the article. How is that a logical refutation? Thank you for allowing my by beliefs. It is so kind of you. I don't know what I would have done if you disallowed my free thought. Though, of course, in typical non-sequitur digression, you try to drag the conversation off to inane and unsupported territory with your last sentence.

How about we just get back to your list of things the president has done to disappoint you. Anything? Or is everything still holy and pure. Me I see a mixed bag, you know, realistic.

Oh. thanks for the kick.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. The Left criticized Obama's energy policy right after it was announced on March 31
Obama's troika of disaster: more offshore drilling, new nuclear plants, and the mythical "Clean" Coal.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. So much for the team of rivals.
If Obama is not getting the information he needs to make proper decisions than someone is locking out the opposing viewpoint. Seems he's getting his information in drib and drabs and all pointing to very RepubliCON opinions. Funny how he can't seem to think out of the Washington DLC, RepubliCON box.

Seems DC has changed him or was he always so in favor of monopoly capitalism?
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. He went there" Hoping to be Changed"
$$$$$$$
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Top Obama administration officials say... that the president asked what he needed to ask..."
Gee, apparently not.


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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. Two of the biggest problems of this presidency are here.
First is the very short-sighted policy of seeking republican support that was never going to come: "he embraced expanded offshore drilling, in part to win Republican support for broader legislation to curb climate change"

This may have been what presidents did forty years ago, but any student of American politics since reagan knows this is futile. Even if the administration wouldn't learn from the past, they should have learned from experience. Over and over, the white house has given in to, sucked up to, and bent over for right wing votes. How many republican votes did he get on HCR? Nothing is as stupid as doing the same thing again and again with the expectation of a different outcome.

Second is his reliance on "experts" that filter and limit their advice to their own interests. Whether it is finance, the economy, education, or energy, the president goes to a select few to boil down the information and give him the information. He is not very good as selecting these "experts". His coterie of advisors is small and uninformed. They are the ones who wield the power with this presidency, and they are not serving him well. He can't use that for an excuse because he is the one who is responsible. Over and over he relies on limited and biased information to make bad decisions and then falls back on political advisors and his oratory to try to get out of the mess.

And just like the white house hope for republican support, it looks like he would begin to question his reliance on those who should be serving him. The president is reputed to be big on smarts, but he doesn't seem to be good a learning.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No.
"he embraced expanded offshore drilling, in part to win Republican support for broader legislation to curb climate change"

You forget about members of the Democratic caucus, including Mary Landrieu and Mark Begich.

The President needs every member of the Democratic caucus' vote.



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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Missed.
The quote comes from the OP. It says he hoped to win GOP support. Whether he hoped to win the support of the republican-democrats is another matter. The asses he is courting are eating all of his carrots and he has no stick if he gives them unconditional support regardless of their behavior as with Lincoln.

Now. Stick to the point of the post and quit trying to drag it off elsewhere. If you want to make the point that Obama has to sell out to even get his own party's support, that the Democratic party has become infested with right wing asshats, then make that point in your own OP. Of course to do so you would need to find a WH press release saying as much.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. Not when it means selling out our nations eco system and our oceans!
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:46 AM by flyarm
and our HEALTH, food and water supply of Americans! And wildlife and reserves, and marine life and human life!

Government's main purpose is to protect the people..not score political points...or corporate points.


RFK, Jr. Discusses Health Effects of Oil Spill


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x475209

I thank L. Coyote for posting this
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. Thank you Jakes Progress for your excellent posts! eom
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. he made the decision SUPER-lightly
recycling that stupid republican lie about Katrina and Rita showed how slipshod his decisionmaking was.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. Group Think
It looks like Obama has surrounded himself with a bunch of advisors who all think like him. He has committed THE classic mistake of past presidents.

If most everyone of his advisors either comes from Harvard, Yale, or has been employed by Wall Street or an oil company the result can only be:

GIGO GIGO GIGO GIGO ad nauseam
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. Actually I was shocked when he made the announcement
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 01:14 AM by Rosa Luxemburg
I thought what the....

No baby drills
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
26. Shout out to Jakes Progress for sound, civil, and logical argument in this thread.
Thank you.

Either Obama was clueless or he pushed to expand offshore drilling in a cynical ploy to get Republican support that would never (and will never) materialize.

Given the options (ignorant or stupid), I choose to believe that the President was ignorant.

:dem:

-Laelth
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. "I choose to believe that the President was ignorant"
Yes, the country is in trouble. The President has no clue what he's doing.

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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. It's not that he has no clue what he's doing. It's that he had bad (or limited) information.
It appears he was was "ignorant" of the situation because he lacked reliable information.

That assessment, it seems to me, is more generous than the alternative.

:dem:

-Laelth
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. "he lacked reliable information"
Evidently, he still does, that is unless the OP assessment is flawed?

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. he doesn't and didn't! all he had to do was read some reports..like this cut and paste job?
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:22 AM by flyarm
that was submitted to His government /administration 1 year ago?????????

Just a simple question like..when did the Gulf of Mexico get WALRUS"S? and Sea Lions??????????? Orrrrrrrr how about a simple call into the wildlife specialist ..who is quoted in the report..or any of the people suggested in the report..he might have found out the guy was dead for 4years!!!!!!!!!!



Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/06/09/1315823/bp-c-plan.html

"Lutz is listed as a go-to wildlife specialist at the University of Miami. But Lutz, an eminent sea turtle expert, left Miami almost 20 years ago to chair the marine biology department at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton. He died four years before the plan was published."
BP's Gulf spill plan outdated, error-filled

By JUSTIN PRITCHARD, TAMARA LUSH and HOLBROOK MOHR
The Associated Press

Published: June 9th, 2010 10:32 PM
Last Modified: June 12th, 2010 11:38 AM

VENICE, La. - Professor Peter Lutz is listed in BP's 2009 response plan for a Gulf of Mexico oil spill as a national wildlife expert. He died in 2005.



Under the heading "sensitive biological resources," the plan lists marine mammals including walruses, sea otters, sea lions and seals. None lives anywhere near the Gulf.

The names and phone numbers of several Texas A&M University marine life specialists are wrong. So are the numbers for marine mammal stranding network offices in Louisiana and Florida, which are no longer in service.

BP PLC's 582-page regional spill plan for the Gulf, and its 52-page, site-specific plan for the Deepwater Horizon rig are riddled with omissions and glaring errors, according to an Associated Press analysis that details how BP officials have been making it up as they go along. The lengthy plans approved by the federal government last year before BP drilled its ill-fated well vastly understate the dangers posed by an uncontrolled leak and vastly overstate the company's preparedness to deal with one.

"Look, it's obvious to everybody in south Louisiana that they didn't have a plan, they didn't have an adequate plan to deal with this spill," said Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. "They didn't anticipate the (blowout preventer) failure. They didn't anticipate this much oil hitting our coast. From the very first days, they kept telling us, ‘Don't worry, the oil's not going to make it to your coast.' "

In the spill scenarios detailed in the BP's exploration plan, fish, marine mammals and birds escape serious harm; beaches remain pristine; water quality is only a temporary problem. And those are the projections for a leak about 10 times worse than what has been calculated for the ongoing disaster.

There are other wildly false assumptions in the documents. BP's proposed method to calculate spill volume judging by the darkness of the oil sheen is way off. The internationally accepted formula would produce estimates 100 times higher.

The Gulf's loop current, which is projected to help eventually send oil hundreds of miles around Florida's southern tip and up the Atlantic coast, isn't mentioned in either plan.


The website listed for Marine Spill Response Corp. - one of two firms that BP relies on for equipment to clean a spill - links to a defunct Japanese-language page.



heck if I can know this ..why couldn't the biggest leader of the free world..with a staff of how many ???????

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. yeah
Would prefer that he was ignorant. Still, it's kinda scary that after all the malfeasance by big business in the past few years that he still trusts those of the Fountainhead mindset.

Personally, I am glad that he was caught on this. I wouldn't want him to have the delusion that he was going on a different path.

Hopefully, this brings him back on course.

Is he too naive to be POTS? He seems a little clueless. Or it might be, as some feel, that there really ARE others above him that are calling the shots.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. He freely admitted that he was too trusting of Big Oil's ability to drill in deep water safely.
In fact, it's not the first time he has admitted to being too trusting. I wrote elsewhere that if Obama had some liberal instincts or some liberal advisers, he would know to never trust any large corporation on anything.

Let's hope he gets some liberal advisers. That's the only way I can see systemic change coming about. He has very few liberal advisers left in the Administration. Most have been driven out.

:dem:

-Laelth
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. or they are " f'ing retarded"... eom
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. President Obama, June 2
Now, this brings me to an issue that’s on everybody’s minds right now -- namely, what kind of energy future can ensure our long-term prosperity. The catastrophe unfolding in the Gulf right now may prove to be a result of human error, or of corporations taking dangerous shortcuts to compromise safety, or a combination of both. And I’ve launched a National Commission so that the American people will have answers on exactly what happened. But we have to acknowledge that there are inherent risks to drilling four miles beneath the surface of the Earth, and these are risks -- (applause) -- these are risks that are bound to increase the harder oil extraction becomes. We also have to acknowledge that an America run solely on fossil fuels should not be the vision we have for our children and our grandchildren. (Applause.)

We consume more than 20 percent of the world’s oil, but have less than 2 percent of the world’s oil reserves. So without a major change in our energy policy, our dependence on oil means that we will continue to send billions of dollars of our hard-earned wealth to other countries every month -- including countries in dangerous and unstable regions. In other words, our continued dependence on fossil fuels will jeopardize our national security. It will smother our planet. And it will continue to put our economy and our environment at risk.

Now, I understand that we can’t end our dependence on fossil fuels overnight. That’s why I supported a careful plan of offshore oil production as one part of our overall energy strategy. But we can pursue such production only if it’s safe, and only if it’s used as a short-term solution while we transition to a clean energy economy.

link

I guess someone should send him the OP article.




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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
33.  "Oil rigs today generally don't cause spills," : Obama
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:29 AM by flyarm
Silly me..but I was able to read a Katrina disaster report by the Florida State legislature that stated very clearly that 124 rigs were damaged or broke away ..one even broke away and traveled 800 miles in the Gulf and was subsequently hit by a ship..and did huge damage to the ship..

Now wtf would have given Obama advice to say .. "Oil rigs today generally don't cause spills,"

Am I the only one who remembers how the price of Gas went up nationwide after Katrina because we were told damage from Katrina to the oil rigs in the Gulf caused a shortfall of oil so our gas prices had to reflect that?

Airlines were increasing prices beause of a shortfall of oil ..because of Katrina.........

Do we really have that short of memories?

124 rigs were damaged or destroyed in the Gulf from Katrina..does no one else remember that?? It is all in the Florida Legislative reports..Do you think..just think, perhaps Obama's advisors could have looked that up and told him that?? Or all they simply had to do is read the White House message boards..because thousands of angry Democratic Floridians were emailing the White House with that info!

In fact, the day Obama announced drill baby drill, there were hundreds of Protestors in St Pete Fla..protesting Newt Gingrich at the Vannoy Hotel where he was giving a drill baby drill speech..much to the surprise of the protestors..while they were protesting Newt and his drill baby drill, Obama did his speech of drill baby drill!
The democratic and environmental Protestors were totally caught off guard..that Obama would sell them out after campaigning in Fla promising no more drilling in the Gulf..

but there are pockets to grease..and promises to keep don'tcha know..but they are not promises to we the people..they were corporate promises..

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Who Owns BP? Biggest Shareholder is JPMorgan Chase


In the wake of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, BP’s stock value has plummeted, prompting news stories identifying the company’s largest investors. Oddly enough, some media outlets have failed to identify the largest BP shareholder: the U.S. investment firm JPMorgan Chase.

According to the European financial database Amadeus, JPMorgan Chase is the No. 1 holder of stock in BP. That distinction also has earned the Wall Street bank the title of “Global Ultimate Owner” of the oil giant, as it owns 28.34% of BP. Next, at 7.99%, is Legal and General Group, a British-based financial services company with assets of more than $350 billion. Another U.S. investment firm, BlackRock Inc., owns 7.1% of BP. Other owners include the governments of Kuwait, Norway, Singapore and China.

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews... ...

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Groups Challenge Continued Oil Operations in Gulf Excluded from New Moratorium


Since spill, feds have given 27 waivers to oil companies in gulf
Source: McClatchy

Since spill, feds have given 27 waivers to oil companies in gulf

By Marisa Taylor | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — Since the Deepwater Horizon oil drilling rig exploded April 20, the Obama administration has granted oil and gas companies at least 27 exemptions from doing in-depth environmental studies of oil exploration and production in the Gulf of Mexico.

The waivers were granted despite President Barack Obama's vow that his administration would launch a "relentless response effort" to stop the leak and prevent more damage to the gulf. One of them was dated Friday — the day after Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said he was temporarily halting offshore drilling.

The exemptions, known as "categorical exclusions," were granted by the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service, or MMS, and included waiving detailed environmental studies for a British Petroleum exploration plan to be conducted at a depth of more than 4,000 feet and an Anadarko Petroleum Corp. exploration plan at more 9,000 feet.

"Is there a moratorium on offshore drilling or not?" asked Peter Galvin, the conservation director at the Center for Biological Diversity, the environmental group that discovered the administration's continued approval of the exemptions. "Possibly the worst environmental disaster in U.S. history has occurred, and nothing appears to have changed."


Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/07/9376 ...




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.....remember Dashle who pushed Obama during our primaries..and was one of his top advisors...........working with Whitman..the lady who lied about the air quality at Ground zero in NY?? Can i tickle your memory..she lied and people died and keep dying!! And that is just one example..

Spill, Baby, Spill
By Michael Isikoff, Ian Yarett and Matthew Philips | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated May 10, 2010

BP has been trying hard to burnish its public image in recent years after being hit with a pair of environmental disasters, including a fatal refinery explosion in Texas and a pipeline leak in Alaska. One major step was to announce, in 2007, that it had hired a high-powered advisory board that included former EPA director Christine Todd Whitman, former Senate majority leader Tom Daschle, and Leon Panetta, who were each paid $120,000 a year. (Panetta left when he became President Obama's CIA director.) Two years ago the oil giant's chief executive, Robert Malone, flew board members out to the Gulf of Mexico on a helicopter to demonstrate the safeguards surrounding BP's advanced drilling technology. "We got a sense they were really committed to ensuring they got it right," Whitman told NEWSWEEK.

Now BP, formerly known as British Petroleum, finds itself blamed for what could prove to be the worst oil spill in U.S. history. And only weeks after Obama announced an ambitious plan to open up more U.S. offshore waters to oil drilling, shunting aside environmental concerns from his own Democratic Party, his administration is facing a comeuppance from hell. "There was a lot of wishful thinking, I guess," says Villy Kourafalou, a scientist at the University of Miami's Rosensteil School of Marine and Atmospheric Science. "The new technologies were said to be so wonderful that we'd never have an oil spill again." Rep. Frank Pallone (D-N.J.), who had sought to block the expanded drilling, says the oil and gas industry was pushing this idea hard. "They said, 'We'll never have a repeat of Santa Barbara,'?" referring to the 1969 rig explosion off the California coast. Both the Bush and Obama administrations "were buying the line that the technology was fine," Pallone adds.

BP pressed hard to make that point in D.C. Its PR efforts included payments of $16 million last year to a battery of Washington lobbyists, among them the firm of Tony Podesta, the brother of former Obama transition chief John Podesta. Last fall, after the U.S. Interior Department proposed tighter federal regulation of oil companies' environmental programs, David Rainey, BP's vice president for Gulf of Mexico exploration, told Congress that the proposal was unnecessary. "I think we need to remember," he said, that offshore drilling "has been going on for the last 50 years, and it has been going on in a way that is both safe and protective of the environment."

Read the full article at:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/237298

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and never forget this..we Floridans won't!!!


YouTube - Barack Obama on Offshore Oil Drilling ( to Florida voters while asking for their votes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fkbEuCQss ...


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Obama: “Oil Rigs Today Generally Don’t Cause Spills”


Obama Repeats Katrina Oil Spill Myth To Defend Offshore Drilling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm8gLmuTvJ4 ... ...


By: David Dayen Thursday April 29, 2010 1:42 pm

snip:

What a difference 18 days makes. Here was Barack Obama, on April 2, before the BP oil rig disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, claiming that oil rigs are safe to justify his position on offshore drilling:

I don’t agree with the notion that we shouldn’t do anything. It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore.


Not only does this quote look ridiculous in hindsight, it wasn’t true at the time, as Brad Johnson points out:

Obama’s claim that oil rigs did not cause any spills during Hurricane Katrina is simply false, as the Wonk Room reported in June, 2008, when Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and other conservatives made the same false claim:

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita Caused 124 Offshore Spills For A Total Of 743,700 Gallons. 554,400 gallons were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 189,000 gallons were refined products from platforms and rigs.

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita Caused Six Offshore Spills Of 42,000 Gallons Or Greater. The largest of these was 152,250 gallons, well over the 100,000 gallon threshhold considered a “major spill.”


http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/04/29/oba ... ... ’t-cause-spills/


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Government to Oil Plume Discovery Team: Shut Up

Posted by flyarm in General Discussion
Tue May 18th 2010, 02:38 PM
Government to Oil Plume Discovery Team: Shut Up | The Seminal

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/48816 ...

Government to Oil Plume Discovery Team: Shut Up
By: Jim White Tuesday May 18, 2010 6:06 am


The research vessel Pelican. (photo: Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium)

On Saturday, the New York Times brought the world’s attention to the discovery by a team of researchers on the the vessel Pelican that there are large underwater plumes of oil emanating from the Deepwater Horizon spill. Remarkably, the response of the government to the attention focused on this discovery has been to tell the researchers to stop granting interviews with the press. At the same time, the blog on which the researchers had been providing updates has also fallen silent since Saturday.

Pensacola television station WEAR filed a report (video at the link) on the oil plume and broke the news about the scientists being muzzled by the government:

Over the weekend, a research crew from the University of Southern Mississippi found evidence that there are 3 to 5 plumes… About 5 miles wide, 10 miles long and 3 hundred feet in depth.

But after giving that information to the press, the lead researcher now says he has been asked by the federal government… Which funds his research… To quit giving interviews until further testing is done.


What an interesting change of course for the government. Even the government’s website on the Deepwater Horizon response had been touting the mission of the Pelican as recently as May 6:




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Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/06/09/1315823/bp-c-plan.html

"Lutz is listed as a go-to wildlife specialist at the University of Miami. But Lutz, an eminent sea turtle expert, left Miami almost 20 years ago to chair the marine biology department at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton. He died four years before the plan was published."
BP's Gulf spill plan outdated, error-filled

By JUSTIN PRITCHARD, TAMARA LUSH and HOLBROOK MOHR
The Associated Press

Published: June 9th, 2010 10:32 PM
Last Modified: June 12th, 2010 11:38 AM

VENICE, La. - Professor Peter Lutz is listed in BP's 2009 response plan for a Gulf of Mexico oil spill as a national wildlife expert. He died in 2005.



Under the heading "sensitive biological resources," the plan lists marine mammals including walruses, sea otters, sea lions and seals. None lives anywhere near the Gulf.

The names and phone numbers of several Texas A&M University marine life specialists are wrong. So are the numbers for marine mammal stranding network offices in Louisiana and Florida, which are no longer in service.

BP PLC's 582-page regional spill plan for the Gulf, and its 52-page, site-specific plan for the Deepwater Horizon rig are riddled with omissions and glaring errors, according to an Associated Press analysis that details how BP officials have been making it up as they go along. The lengthy plans approved by the federal government last year before BP drilled its ill-fated well vastly understate the dangers posed by an uncontrolled leak and vastly overstate the company's preparedness to deal with one.

"Look, it's obvious to everybody in south Louisiana that they didn't have a plan, they didn't have an adequate plan to deal with this spill," said Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. "They didn't anticipate the (blowout preventer) failure. They didn't anticipate this much oil hitting our coast. From the very first days, they kept telling us, ‘Don't worry, the oil's not going to make it to your coast.' "

In the spill scenarios detailed in the BP's exploration plan, fish, marine mammals and birds escape serious harm; beaches remain pristine; water quality is only a temporary problem. And those are the projections for a leak about 10 times worse than what has been calculated for the ongoing disaster.

There are other wildly false assumptions in the documents. BP's proposed method to calculate spill volume judging by the darkness of the oil sheen is way off. The internationally accepted formula would produce estimates 100 times higher.

The Gulf's loop current, which is projected to help eventually send oil hundreds of miles around Florida's southern tip and up the Atlantic coast, isn't mentioned in either plan.

Read the whole thing..your blood will boil!!

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Government Collusion with BP to Block Information Flow Means We Need an Independent Commission to Handle Spill Response


By: Jim White Thursday June 10, 2010 6:50 am
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/53862

Writing in Thursday’s New York Times, Jeremy W. Peters provides further documentation of what he titles "Efforts to Limit the Flow of Spill News". Perhaps the most damning evidence Peters provides comes from an effort by Florida Senator Bill Nelson to visit the Gulf with a group of reporters:

Last week, Senator Bill Nelson, Democrat of Florida, tried to bring a small group of journalists with him on a trip he was taking through the gulf on a Coast Guard vessel. Mr. Nelson’s office said the Coast Guard agreed to accommodate the reporters and camera operators. But at about 10 p.m. on the evening before the trip, someone from the Department of Homeland Security’s legislative affairs office called the senator’s office to tell them that no journalists would be allowed.

“They said it was the Department of Homeland Security’s response-wide policy not to allow elected officials and media on the same ‘federal asset,’ ” said Bryan Gulley, a spokesman for the senator. “No further elaboration” was given, Mr. Gulley added.

Why would the Department of Homeland Security have a policy that prohibits elected officials and media being on the same ship in the Gulf? Is there any other explanation than a blatant attempt by the federal government to stifle reporting on conditions in the Gulf as they really exist, rather than as they have been presented by BP and federal "spokespeople"?


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From the Ground: BP Censoring Media, Destroying Evidence
Source: Huffington Post

...... BP is using federal agencies to shield itself from public accountability.

For example, while flying on a small plane from New Orleans to Orange Beach, the pilot suddenly exclaimed, "Look at that!" The thin red line marking the federal flight restrictions of 3,000 feet over the oiled Gulf region had just jumped to include the coastal barrier islands off Alabama.

"There's only one reason for that," the pilot said. "BP doesn't want the media taking pictures of oil on the beaches. You should see the oil that's about six miles off the coast," he said grimly. We looked down at the wavy orange boom surrounding the islands below us. The pilot shook his head. "There's no way those booms are going to stop what's offshore from hitting those beaches."

BP knows this as well -- boom can only deflect oil under the calmest of sea conditions, not barricade it -- so they have stepped up their already aggressive effort to control what the public sees.


.............

With oil undisputedly hitting the beaches and the number of dead wildlife mounting, BP is switching tactics. In Orange Beach, people told me BP wouldn't let them collect carcasses. Instead, the company was raking up carcasses of oiled seabirds. "The heads separate from the bodies," one upset resident told me. "There's no way those birds are going to be autopsied. BP is destroying evidence!"

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/riki-ott/fro... -...
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. "124 rigs were damaged or broke "
With 48,000 rigs in the Gulf, that's .002 percent.

The President's statement is easy to spin, but given the facts, he's right.

The problem is that all it takes is negligence on the part of a company like BP to cause a disaster.



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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. and with a direct hit from a hurricane..Cat 3 or higher..it would be a disaster worse than what we
are seeing..oh and don't forget BP's new rig Bigger and deeper than this one..that is ready to go online....

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64I4AE20100519

Lawmakers to urge BP to idle its Atlantis rig

Reuters) - A group of U.S. lawmakers will recommend BP be ordered to idle its Atlantis oil and gas platform in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico until federal regulators can prove the region's second biggest rig is operating safely.

Politics

At least 17 Democratic lawmakers will urge the Minerals Management Service to shut down Atlantis, which pumps up to 200,000 barrels per day of crude, pending a broad safety probe, according to a letter they will deliver to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar on Wednesday, obtained by Reuters.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. you want percentages??..here..The Hole of Death..
this is from One rig........one........

The Hole of Death


Link: http://firedoglake.com/2010/06/12/the-hole-of-death /


-On May 7th, they closed around 10,807 square miles (27,989 square kilometers), or 4.5% of the US federal waters in the Gulf to all fishing, as illustrated by the red area in the map to the left. No fishing at all — not for eating, and not for sport.

-By May 11th, they had expanded the closure to cover an area of 16,027 square miles (41,511 square kilometers), or about 6.5% of the US federal fishing waters. That’s an area about the size of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined.

And the hole of death kept pumping its oil out into the waters of the Gulf, literally sucking the oxygen out of it, wherever it spread.

--By May 21, the closure area had become 48,005 square miles (124,333 square kilometers) , which is just under 20% of the US federal fishing waters.

And all the while, the oil kept flowing.

-On May 25, the NMFS closed 60,683 square miles (157,169 square kilometers) of the Gulf waters to fishing , or about 25% of the waters under their jurisdiction.

That’s larger than the state of New York, larger than the state of Illinois, and larger than the state of Georgia.

That’s larger than the nation of North Korea, larger than Nicaragua, larger than Greece, and larger than Nepal.

And the oil kept flowing from the hole of death.

-By June 7, the waters closed to fishing had expanded to 78,264 sq mi (202,703 sq km), or about 32% of the US federal fishing area.

And the oil still flows from the hole of death.

This oil kills.

It kills big marine life, like tuna and dolphins and turtles. It kills smaller marine life, like the shrimp and oysters. It kills the plankton and the vegetation that nourishes the lives of those higher on the Gulf’s food chain.


And the oil still flows.

4% . . . 6.5% . . . 20% . . . 25% . . . 32% of the US waters in the Gulf, now closed to fishing.


Thanks to WillyT for posting this and Firedoglake..for truth......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8548748
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