Petition Obama: No more troops to Afghanistan

[2tr4nqued]

Please sign this petition:

Dear President Obama,

As a signer of this petition, I pledge not to vote for you in 2012 if you send more troops to Afghanistan.

Sincerely,
(your name)


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[Bonn1997]

1. This probably should be in the gen disc forum or gen disc: Presidential

[2tr4nqued]

2. OK, thanks...

Should I just repost it, or will mods move it, or what?

[Bonn1997]

3. IDK. I recently put a thread here that I I was told would be better for the GD. When I re-posted in

the GD, I got tons of better replies. Basically, anything political will get taken more seriously in the GD than here.

[hippywife]

6. I would leave it here,

and cross post in GD, with permission to cross post, of course. It's an important issue and can use as many eyes on it as possible.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

Edited to add: I don't know about the threat not to vote for him in 2012, face it we may have little leverage there.

[2tr4nqued]

8. It depends on how important the issue is

and how much leverage we want to expend on the issue. We have to pose a credible threat, even if we can't back it up in the end. We have to at least make Obama sweat a little and wonder how much support he will lose over Afghanistan. I say he will lose all of my support if he keeps on with the killing and killing and killing. It's madness, and I will not support it or be blackmailed into supporting it because the "other side is just as bad."

So, 5 seconds to sign. Save a life.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[hippywife]

11. I can sympathize with that.

I spent several of the recently past years on the street and in the halls fighting all of this. I can't support any of this at all. People forget that Afghanistan, like Iraq, did not attack us either. We've killed so many more than we've lost and it's all so senseless.

I'm really, really hoping he decides not to escalate, as are you.

[2tr4nqued]

15. I've been up and down the Internet.

I got 11 signatures. So, Americans give the green light. Go do whatever you want to do Mr. President.

[taterguy]

4. Please answer the following questions

1) Has any online petition ever had any impact whatsoever?

2) What will you do if Obama's 2012 opponent is more likely to send troops to areas where you think troops shouldn't be sent?

3) Why are you more qualified to make decisions about foreign policy than the President of the United States?

[2tr4nqued]

5. Answers

1. When something is as important as this issue, you do whatever you can, even if the chances of success are small. That is better than just giving up before even trying.

2. I am not susceptible to blackmail by my government.

3. I do not believe the government makes any decisions except those approved by the people.

Generally, it seems you and I have different ideas of power. Your idea is that you have give up your power to others without argument. My idea is that I will never do that until I am physically forced to.

[taterguy]

7. So what else are you doing to stop the war in Afghanistan?

And please answer my question about your qualifications to make foreign policy decisions.

I'm very curious.

[2tr4nqued]

9. At the moment, I'm doing little

I am waiting for Obama's decision, but if Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan or fails to withdraw from Iraq, then my life will become one big protest against the war...again, just like it was under Bush. I have put in way many hours protesting during the years of these wars and <b>reminding</b> people that we are at war. I wear a peace sign button, so people who see me remember we are at war. There is a tendency to forget. My job is to remind people. I have done lots and lots and lots of street protest, and on and on.

<b>But, at the moment,</b> I am taking pre-emptive action about Obama's decision. I have made this petition, and I want people to sign it to say they will not vote for Obama if he keeps on with the damned killing. No more killing. Period. End of discussion. My vote is all I have.

Petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

I am so tired of the war. It has to end.

[taterguy]

10. So in other words, you have absolutely no qualifications to make foreign policy decisions

Why are we supposed to listen to you?

You also lack html skillz.

[laugle]

44. What

qualifications do you need to post a petition here; none.........

What are you doing to stop the wars? Badgering a newby is not too productive.

If you object, don't sign it!

[ChiciB1]

56. Good For You "laugle," I'm Tired Of This Type Of Haggling Here At DU...

but then it goes on and on and on. America is getting fed up and is fighting mad, even if it means fighting with each other.

As a pacifist, I can't abide WAR, and we need more attention here in this country for "we the people!"

JMHO

[ZombieHorde]

63. How do you determine what qualifications are needed for foreign policy decisions?

I would like to point out that you are not debating the claim, you are debating the claimer.

[2tr4nqued]

12. I can see how many people have signed the petition

And no one from here has.

[taterguy]

14. That's because it's a stupid idea

Sincerely

Your knew BFF

[ShortnFiery]

36. Here's a, IMO, more appropriate and thoughtful petition

Many more signatures. Request my fellow veterans consider signing and others view videos.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/

[2tr4nqued]

13. Srsly, do I have to twist people's arms?

We are killing people in Afghanistan. How gross is that? We need to stop being so disgusting and vile and sign this petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[latebloomer]

16. You know what?

I was all ready to sign it until I saw it's entitled "shut up".

Being uncivil is a way to be ignored.

[2tr4nqued]

17. You are already ignored.

Obama wants to tell you WHY we should send more troops to Afghanistan. But what I am saying is that his reasons do not matter. The discussion is over. There is no negotiation on this issue. So he needs to quit arguing and do what we say. Or he doesn't get our votes. There is no negotiation about killing people. The answer is no. No compromise.

The issue here is killing other people. It is hard for most people to really wrap their mind around that and realize how serious it is. They are not our family members being killed, so we respond to it differently.

[akbacchus_BC]

61. Wow, just wow!

[2tr4nqued]

32. Hey there, latebloomer

I went in and fixed the petition to the extent that I could. It doesn't say "shut up" anymore, mostly. Sign?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[Ptah]

18. Is this your first rodeo?

[2tr4nqued]

19. I don't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying war is a game when your loved ones aren't on the line?

[Ptah]

22. I'm asking if this is your first rodeo?

Is this your first awakening to the intricacies of foreign policy?

[2tr4nqued]

23. Oh, right, all those intricacies...

when it's not your family in the bomb site. Then it does get a might complex, when you take the human factor out of it and completely dehumanize your "enemy" so that their deaths mean no more than mosquitos. How did we get to this state, huh? Well, it's happened before, eh? History repeats. And we never learn from it because we don't see it in ourselves.

[Ptah]

25. I did not take out the human factor out of the discussion.

You did.

I want the troops home as soon as possible.

You have no idea how close combat has touched my life
or the lives of those close to me.

[2tr4nqued]

28. Cool, so you signed the petition then?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[Ptah]

30. No, I did not sign the petition.

Your binary thinking is at fault for that misunderstanding.

[2tr4nqued]

31. binary thinking

That's the kind you do when it's your loved one who might die, right? Do anything possible. Them dying is bad, them living is good. It's very simple, binary. Not a lot of gray.

But when it's someone else's loved one, like an Iraqi's or an Afghan's then it gets all very multidimensional, and one has to think about it and look at it from every angle for 8 years, and there is lots of time, and so on.

So, it's a lack of empathy, I think, this different response to other people's pain than to one's own.

[EastTennesseeDem]

20. "Shut up..."

Boy, that'll reel the civil-minded liberals in.

[2tr4nqued]

21. Yeah, "shut up" or kill people

It's a hard decision for some, especially when it's not their loved ones being killed. Empathy is hard. It take work.

[2tr4nqued]

33. I fixed this. Thanks for the suggestion.

n/t

[2tr4nqued]

24. Lol, 11 signers of my petition.

Hear that Mr. President? You can go ahead and kill whoever you want. Americans don't mind. They are too entertained to mind. What a perfectly working machine this is.

[hippywife]

26. Maybe it's your approach to people.

You might want to dial back the anger just a wee bit. Many of us here are very involved. This place is to escape that and blow off some steam for a little while.

[NoPasaran]

27. What does this have to do with people smoking at Olive Garden?

[2tr4nqued]

29. dunno, wut?

n/t

[mkultra]

34. no thanks. thoughtless demands are the ways of a fool

even a well meaning fool such as yourself.

[ShortnFiery]

35. I've had friends and family sent over there to kill and die. Some of them have ...

returned LESS THAN WHOLE.

Hell yes, we need to re-implement The Draft. This "don't give a shit" malaise by far too many here would end real soon if it were YOUR CHILDREN and/or LOVED ONES coming home in a box or physically/emotionally damaged from ILLEGAL and IMMORAL American Led Occupations. :grr:

I couldn't be more ashamed of my fellow seemingly DOCILE Americans who blithely allow *mercenaries* and The Financially Challenged Youth to take up the slack. :grr: :nuke:

[mkultra]

41. does your point pertain to me in some way

because it doesn't sound like it.

[jenmito]

37. Nope. Obama is making a very thoughtful, careful decision. I will not

make his job any harder.

[ShortnFiery]

38. Yeah, after all, IT'S ALL ABOUT President Obama and re-electing Democrats in 2010 and 2012?

:eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhMlGnB9I&feature=player_embedded

[jenmito]

39. You need to work on your comprehension. I said nothing of re-electing Dems. I said Obama is

making probably the most important, difficult decision of his life. He has gone to Dover, Arlington Cemetery, etc. to see the consequences of whatever his decision will be. I will not threaten to not vote for him after he makes his decision. :eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

40. You need to realize that these Occupations are both immoral and illegal.

Further, it's not a stretch to consider that in some democrat's minds, it is ALL ABOUT President Obama and "the Party."

This decision may be his to make, but if he does anything other than draw down and exit, he OWNS this immoral/illegal occupation.

[jenmito]

42. YOU say the war in Afghanistan is illegal and immoral. That's nothing more than your opinion.

Further, my post didn't even MENTION Dems.' up-coming elections.

He is the president. He always ran on Afghanistan being the "good" war ("just" war) and is making a very difficult decision which is supposedly going to include a way for our troops to get out. If you voted for him thinking he was for an immoral and illegal war, that's YOUR problem. I didn't feel that way.

[avaistheone1]

43. The Afghanistan war is illegal and immoral. It is more than an opinion.

It is a fact. Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDT_U37Sryg&feature=player_embedded


This is happening in Afghanistan now too. Now can you say still this war is legal and moral?

[Egnever]

46. War is hell as they say

Did you think it would be pretty?

[avaistheone1]

47. Mortally disfiguring children and destroying families is not to be trivialized.

No thanks. Not in my name.

I condemn it.

[Egnever]

48. They dont say war is hell for nothing

[jenmito]

50. It IS your OPINION.

I understand what war looks like. Iraq was unjust. Afghanistan was just. Sorry. Did you vote for Obama even knowing his stance on the war in Afghanistan?

[ShortnFiery]

51. Yeah, yeah, keep on pushing President Obama's "good war."

You both can OWN it because there's no such thing as *a GOOD war.*

If you disagree then shag your butt to the enlistment office ... it's your turn to serve in the military. I already have and so has my father and older brother.

Go put yourself on the line with the President you seemingly adore?

Go FIGHT that GOOD WAR with President Obama.

[jenmito]

53. Did you vote for him? If so, you were voting for the war to continue in Afghanistan...

but with Obama in charge, handling it competently, taking it seriously, and trying to get our troops out.

FYI, I am paralyzed from the waist down with MS so I doubt they'd take me. :eyes: I DO have a brother-in-law who served in the military. Other than that, friends with family in the military now who voted for Obama and are still very much for him. They're grateful to have him as CIC and trust him to do what's best for our country. And you make yourself seem small when you throw in that "adore" BS.

[ShortnFiery]

54. No, voting for President is not an all or nothing endeavor.

It's time both you and "your hero" Rethink Afghanistan.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/

There are men and women whom I greatly admire, but NOT on all issues. Some folks here, yourself included IMO, would seemingly follow President Obama into Hell and back WITHOUT QUESTION.

Think this through yourself and please consider, if you later concur, write your representative and petition President Obama.

[jenmito]

55. "Your hero...", "...whom you ADORE..."...

you lose all credibility with that BS. And you voted for him. You knew his position on Afghanistan. As did I. And I agree with him. And I can't fight there. But for you to keep belittling me by saying I don't think for myself and am just blindly following my hero/god/whatever, and then have the NERVE to nicely ask me to START thinking for myself and then consider signing the petition, shows me you are not as smart as you THINK you are. I hope you don't really think I'm as stupid as your post suggests.

[ShortnFiery]

57. I don't consider you ignorant. However, I get the distinct impression that you believe

President Obama, et. al., other democratic leaders have some "special information" that makes their decisions more sound than our own. They do not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to detect ANY criticism of President Obama on your part?

There was NO attempt to belittle you. Honest. Just to get you to think about WHAT you are supporting, i.e., continued DEATH and DESTRUCTION.

My cousin is suffering from MS and you have my sincere empathy. There are contractor positions that most people who are ambulatory can qualify for. The military is also NOT pushing out people with prosthetics.

My point is, if you can't put yourself on the line with the young men and women who may be maimed and/or killed, being FOR continued "occupation" is IMO, unsound.

Again, all I'm attempting to do is get you to RE-THINK the need for continued "death and destruction" on the part of our troops.

[jenmito]

58. "I don't consider you ignorant. However..." You consider me a mindless Obamabot

who doesn't think, blindlessly following my "hero" while he carelessly kills and mames people in my name. Please. Don't patronize me now.

Yes, I HAVE criticized Obama. A few people have asked me to "prove" it and I went to find and post links to posts criticizing him, mostly on DADT and gay rights.

Thanks for the empathy, but it's kind of irrational for you to say only people serving in the military can support the war in Afghanistan.

You were NOT attempting to get me to "RE-THINK" my position. You were accusing me of NOT thinking. Well, like it or not, I thought about it and I support Obama's decision, whatever it ends up being, because I see how tough it is for him, rejecting all of the first group of plans, since they didn't include exit strategies.

[ShortnFiery]

59. No, you are exaggerating again. I'm saying that if you support senseless WAR

that Congress has not declared, for whatever reason, it is NOT INAPPROPRIATE, that you ante-up. That is, MORE people are over in Afghanistan as contractors as there are military troops. How about encouraging a relative and/or friend to enlist or join KBR.

Yes, if you are FOR more KILLING and DESTRUCTION, I do believe that you should have some "skin in the game."

I have lived in a military community my entire life. My father, battlefield commission and retired Army; then myself on active duty; followed by Marine Corps wife; and now retired spouse.

I have SEEN, first hand, those young men with brain trauma and others who are missing limbs.

Yes, I may seem "mean spirited" but really, I'm not.

And again, it's not unreasonable of me to INSIST from those who root for more "death and destruction" (including yourself) CLAIM what they are willing to sacrifice?

I've seen far too many young men and women who will NEVER be whole again. For what? All I can discern is that we are creating more terrorists than we are killing.

Yes, RETHINK AFGHANISTAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQsoxtjo7E4&feature=player_embedded

[jenmito]

60. No, I'm not. Here are a few of the things you said above:

I will respond in parentheses:

"Yeah, after all, IT'S ALL ABOUT President Obama and re-electing Democrats in 2010 and 2012?"
(I never said that. It's not true.)

"Go put yourself on the line with the President you seemingly adore?"
(I can't. I'm paralyzed from the waist down with M.S., unable to work, on social security.)

"Some folks here, yourself included IMO, would seemingly follow President Obama into Hell and back WITHOUT QUESTION."
(You're calling me an "Obamabot." It's not an exaggeration to say you're calling me that. And I'm not, of course.)

"It's time both you and "your hero" Rethink Afghanistan...Think this through yourself and please consider, if you later concur, write your representative and petition President Obama."
(You're not telling me to RE-think-you're telling me to THINK. Again-insulting my intelligence.)

"My point is, if you can't put yourself on the line with the young men and women who may be maimed and/or killed, being FOR continued "occupation" is IMO, unsound."
(That's ridiculous. We ALL have a right to our opinions.)


I'll say this again: I support Obama's decision, whatever it ends up being, because I see how tough it is for him, rejecting all of the first group of plans, since they didn't include exit strategies.

[laugle]

45. Bingo!!!

[CTLawGuy]

49. considering Obama REJECTED all options

given to him because they did not include exit strategies, I don't think we have much to worry about.

Regardless, no I will not pledge to help elect a Republican who DEFINITELY will send more troops to Afghanistan and probably start other wars too.

[ShortnFiery]

52. "I will not pledge to help elect a Republican who DEFINITELY will send more troops"

But isn't such rationle you state above - rather like voting for Marius and Caesar (the Democrats) rather than Sulla and Pompey (the Republicans)? A more benevolent despot is always better than a less benevolent one, but despotism it remains all the same. Can we pretend otherwise any longer?


The coming darkness is the eclipse of American political freedom and the unchecked reign of a venal, arrogant, and ignorant ruling class. Onerous as its depredations at home are likely to be, even more omnious is its immoral, illegal, and criminal policy of preemptive war abroad.

There is no end to the war on terrorism, since a terrorist is increasingly defined as anyone who opposes the duopoly at home or abroad.

http://www.counterpunch.org/kuzminski08182004.html

[akbacchus_BC]

62. Newbie ignoring people on here. Hey bud, freeper site is the other way!

Knock yourself out, bye

[Garam_Masala]

64. Sorry, your petition choices are bad!

The worst option right now is to send no more troops to Afghanistan.
My options would be (1) Get the heck out completely ASAP -or-
(2) do what ever it takes to win.

Your petition is for continuing the war in a half-ass manner. That is
what you have now and if we don't send more troops you are asking to
continue half-ass war. Then we will lose more soldiers since they
can not fight properly with inadequate number of troops.

I strongly believe the best option is to get out completely out of Afghanistan,
sooner the better. But if the president thinks that is not acceptable then for
crying out loud, listen to the military leaders in the field.