A reminder to those of you who are outraged that there is some criticism of the speech here tonight.

[NRaleighLiberal]

This is not Free Republic. This is not a predominantly conservative/republican hangout. This is not thought lockstep village.

I believe that there are many of us here who worked for Obama, strongly supported him, and continue to strongly support him. In many cases there was/is great alignment of many or most of his numerous positions, and in many other cases, some mismatches of his ideas and our ideals.

I suspect that most of us realize that Obama's campaign views on Afghanistan, largely played out in the speech, were not aligned with what we had hoped for. That includes me. A president is more than a single position, and we all drool and salivate over every single one of his positions, it is being disingenuous. Life is more complex than that, and we are all more complex than that.

So as I said in a previous post-speech analysis post, tonight's speech disappointed me. It is not a sudden get-on-the-bash-Obama bandwagon sort of thing. It is honest disappointment that he wants to send more troops in to what I perceive to be is a potentially endless quagmire. His mention of 911 early on in the speech made me cringe because of its frequent use of a fear tool by the Bush cabal. It wasn't a Bush speech, but there were echoes of the same approach. And that made me cringe as well, though I in now way think that Obama is not caught between a rock and a hard place.

Thankfully, we can criticize and differ with our president - it is healthy. Thankfully, we are not lockstep, fear driven Conservatives.

[Cha]

1. Your OP was thoughtful and considerate..

and it's nothing like the vapidity that's running rampant.

[rhett o rick]

2. well said. k & r nt

[midnight]

3. Hopefully Feingold's efforts to block funding will end this escalation.....

[HughMoran]

4. We all like a good critique of our leaders

I wish 1 in 50 "critiques" were in fact critiques.

[Hansel]

5. What he said in his campaign speech was exactly what I hoped for.

The mess that Bush made in Afghanistan needs to be cleaned up, not just walked away from. As much as it sucks and offends some delicate sensibilities, Bush has created a huge threat and vacuum in Afghanistan and the region, and it needs to be plugged.

He needs to set the country straight and put the war lords back in charge, and get the hell out of there.

I was against going into Afghanistan after 911 because it was asinine machismo, and because I knew it was pure anger and vengeance and not a good strategy for addressing Al Qaeda. But I'm not going to pretend now that if we just waltz away that everything will be 'all better'. Obama is doing what he has to do and I have no doubt that he rather not have to do it. But he is the adult in the house. Someone has to be.

[Clio the Leo]

6. I dont have a problem with criticism.....

.... I DO however have a major problem with hyperbole ridden blathering tinged with personal attacks.

Fortunately, I'm getting better at recognizing who's consistently doing that so I can ignore their posts. ;)

[Sukie]

7. I am not outraged at criticism of Obama that is respectful and

sincere. However, much that is said on DU against the surge is stuff like comparing Obama to bush by calling him bush light, making derogatory remarks about him, almost to the point of being happy that he is disappointing them and thus giving them something to gripe about. I don't have blind faith in Obama, but I do have this faith in the man that I voted for that tells me he is a good man who wants to do the best that he can do for this country. I don't want an escalation of any war. My son might have to go again. I have lived through this twice before and the fear and pain is only surpassed by those who lose their loved one in a useless war. But I also believe Obama when he says that he would not do this if he didn't feel it was necessary. Those who are bashing Obama by saying that he is doing this for oil, or profit or for politics, and boy are they rampant on DU, could never have had an ounce of faith in him to begin with. If you really believe he is that awful of a man, that he could do such a thing, your faith in him was lost too easily.

[LittleBlue]

8. I agree. K&R. I'm basically the same as you.

[quiet.american]

9. The criticism is in the majority. What a joke this post is.

DU has already made up their mind they are ready to elect the next Republican president.

Nothing this president says can earn the respect or confidence of DU.

DU stands at the ready to tear down this president, yet the first thing we always see is "oh, don't tread on me for criticizing."

Horseshit.

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. Bullshit on your response. You don't do nuance, do you? Total hyperbole.

The joke is your knee jerk response and rampant generalization. So you are one of those lock step types, I guess?

[quiet.american]

11. No. I don't do nuance with pretenders. nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. And you are so smart and omnipotent...how? You know what's in people's hearts and minds?

[quiet.american]

13. I see you're always first in line with criticism. Then "o, don't tread on me for criticizing."

Give me a break.

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. You lost me on that one.....have a nice night.

[quiet.american]

16. You lost me long ago. nt

[jeanpalmer]

19. If he were to say

"I have just given orders to the Pentagon to have a plan on my desk in two weeks for complete withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan by the end of 2010," he would earn the respect and confidence of 100% of the people on DU. All he's gotta do is say it.

And if he had included a few of us and other normal people in his war consultations, instead of just generals, politicians, diplomats and all-around hacks, he would have gotten the proper advice. He has only himself to blame.

[quiet.american]

20. Yes, and if he had given me the winning lotto numbers, he'd be in like Flynn.

But because he hasn't done EXACTLY as I wish, the hell with 'im.

[jeanpalmer]

21. There are a few red lines

a President can't cross. Like waging aggressive war on innocent people.

[quiet.american]

22. And where did you hear that? nt

[xiamiam]

14. the speech has been delivered to us before..it was no different..im still reeling..nt

[FrenchieCat]

17. Really? I never heard that withdrawal thingie that he mentioned here......

could you point to that from previous speech!

[xiamiam]

18. and you actually believe that part?.3 years...escalate and then come home..one and one half years

for each...you are delusional...we cant even get out of gitmo...we aren't out of iraq...and we wont be out of afghanistan or pakistan either...wake up...you are being pawned...

[Baltoman991]

24. How about instead

of telling others to wake up, you yourself wake up. We're on our way out of Iraq, as promised. 16 to 19 months was the time line and it's happening.

As soon as the "he's Bush lite" crowd get their heads out of their asses they'll see that Obama is nothing like George Bush. But I suspect that will never happen because then they'd have to admit they've been wrong all along about Obama.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Listen, if you want to post criticism of Obama and not be challenged...

there's always Freerepublic.