I'll say it. You may not like it. Obama should pardon Col. Lakin.

[Pab Sungenis]

Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin has officially been brought up on charges under the UCMJ for refusing to mobilize with his unit supposedly because he's a birther.

Now, this may not be a popular position here at the moment, especially with people enjoying the misfortune that Col. Lakin brought down upon himself, but the President should step in as Commander in Chief and address this problem.

In effect, I want to see him pardon Col. Lakin.

Lakin has allowed himself to be a willing tool of the birther movement, and is hoping to use his court-martial to present "evidence" that Obama isn't legitimately President. He wants to use the whole thing as a soapbox. And to top it all off he's going to face prison time and likely lose his medical license.

Does he deserve all this? Yes. 2-6 years at the Leavenworth rock hockey house is the same penalty any deserter would face if he had just chickened out and missed movement out of cowardice. It's what any anti-war soldier, sailor, or marine would face if he missed movement out of protest. Does he deserve to lose his pay and benefits? Of course. You're hired for a job and don't do it then your pay and benefits go bye-bye. Does he deserve to be kicked out of the military? That goes without saying; he's proven he can't be relied on.

But the last thing we need now is a martyr to the birther cause.

Birtherism is nothing more than a distraction. It takes discussion away from the real issues. And it fuels the worst and most violent fringe groups of the opposition. Allowing Lt. Lakin to sit in prison, whether or not he deserved it, would be nothing more than just throwing red meat to the rabid dogs of the birther movement.

Once the court-martial is done and sentence is handed down, Obama should intervene. Still allow him to be discharged. Still allow the forfeiture of pay and benefits. But don't let a prison sentence stand. Commute any prison time and let him just be shipped home in disgrace. The few reasonable Republicans left in this country would have a hard time seeing Lakin as a victim of Obama if Obama is the one who kept him out of prison. No one would be able to say that Obama ruined Lakin's life if he commuted a DD to an administrative one, letting Lakin keep his medical license and thus not depriving him of his livelihood.

Sure, make him an example to other birthers in the military. Let them know they're not going to get away with pulling their stunts. But don't give them another martyr to revere. Take the high road.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. But Lakin couldn't accept the pardon because Obama can't legitimately give it.

After all, since Lakin says Obama's not legitimately the President in the first place, how can he grant pardons? So if he wants to remain true to his "cause," Lakin will be stuck in Leavenworth anyhow.

:rofl:

Dumbass.

[Pab Sungenis]

2. Which would further expose Lakin for the tool that he is

and disarm the "victim of Obama" argument further.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Yep.

[Jennicut]

18. It is fitting, isn't it? If he took the pardon, would that mean he actually believes in Obama

after all? LOL

[Orsino]

48. Delicious.

However, I've had quite enough of Birther Exceptionalism.

Dude's unfit to serve, and oughta be drummed out or imprisoned.

[HereSince1628]

3. Obama should just stay out of it. It's a military problem

the JAG corp is perfectly capable of dealing with the whole thing.

The more the civilian administration gets involved the more the deniers will say they put in a fix.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

6. Ummm.....You do konw that Obama is the Commander in Chief, right?

That's like telling him to stay out of something because it's a governmental problem.

[HereSince1628]

11. That's silly, Real commanders let their command do their jobs unless

they aren't doing it correctly.

Messing with military ethics and military justice based on the whims of the CIC was a hallmark of the last administration, and it was not common throughout US history.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

13. Ever hear of Harry Truman?

Integrated the Armed Forces and also fired Douglas McArthur. And then there was this Clinton fellow who created this policy regarding gays....

I think it's a little more common than you think.

And since this particular case involves the POTUS himself, I certainly don't think it's a stretch.

[tammywammy]

30. Exactly n/t

[fasttense]

5. In the military missing movement by an officer is a very serious charge.

If Obama pardons this fool. Then others will be right behind him missing movements because they all of a sudden believe the birthers.

And it wouldn't even have to be over missing movements. Suppose I don't want to dig a latrine, suddenly I'm a birther and don't have to follow any orders because President Obama is an illegitimate President. A pardon would be a serious disruption to good order and discipline.

[safeinOhio]

7. K%R

I like your idea. Kill em with kindness. They are just as dead and also disarmed. I'll bet the President follows your advise.

[Solomon]

37. This is a very bad idea.

I think it's ridiculous and gives entirely too much regard for this asshole. Who cares if he becomes a martyr? Have at it I say. I offended by the suggestion.

[KansasVoter]

8. -1

You are joking right?

[sarge43]

9. The birthers don't give a damn about Lakin.

As soon as he drops out of the news cycle, they'll forget about him.

Should the creature who murdered Dr Tiller be pardoned because he could be seen as martyr by the anti-abortion types?

Finally, Lakin could have resigned his commission on the fifth of November 2008, kept his vet bennies and med license instead of waiting until deployment. He wasn't going as a combatant; he's a MD. He was going as a healer. He violated his medical oath as well as his military.

[hlthe2b]

10. What a foolish thing to suggest...

so, then he opens the door to any idiot who wants to use "birtherism" as their excuse to leave their commitment to the military? To do so, would be a grave disjustice to those who have fought and died honorably for this country and further, the naivete' you seem to express, suggesting that this would somehow appease these idiots? Good heavens. They would simply take it as "proof" that they were "right," given Obama would not even stand up to the principle-- thereby "acknowledging" that he was not legally entitled to be the CIC.

Honestly... what next? Suggest Obama resign to appease them? :eyes:

[NutmegYankee]

55. BAD idea. It would just feed the birther movement.

The cry would be "Obama knows he's not the rightful president and he just couldn't let this brave man rot in prison."

Best to let the military handle it's cowards their way.

[NutmegYankee]

59. Posted in the wrong spot. Should go against OP n/t

[izquierdista]

12. Do you have 'pardon' and 'commit' confused?

The correct word when dealing with the mentally ill is "commit".

[Bluenorthwest]

14. What is with the rejection of the rule of law among some here?

And this is about the military chain of command. That chain of command is in place for damn good reasons. Rogue officers cost lives. I understand Obama hates accountability and feels we should look the other way at any and all crimes, focusing only on preventing gay people from serving, but you can not run a military on bigotry alone, no matter how many jollies the bigotry gives to the leadership. So no, there needs to be more than contempt out of those who did not bother to serve, toward those brave enough to protect them.
I mean, you understand that Obama discharges people for being gay, and yet you feel he should assist this traitor, for that is what he is, a traitor.
Disgusting.

[The Magistrate]

15. Nonesense, Sir: What We Need Is Examples Of What Happens To Seditionists And Traitors

There must be consequences, unpleasant consequences, to this sort of thing. There will be a lot less of it if it is descovbbered not to be so very fun in the long run.

[Cha]

32. Thank you, Magistrate.

[theothersnippywshrub]

49. Well said. Except for that "descovbbered" part (unless that is a Teabonics word.) n/t

[boppers]

56. Perhaps a portmanteau of "discover" and "slobbered"?

Meaning "easily understood by the drooling"?

[HughMoran]

16. I disagree with your reasoning

It comes from a place of weakness - we've had enough of that shit on the Democratic side of the aisle.

Now, if he want's to commute his sentence without comment, I would not be terribly upset - I'm always pleased when a deserter (for moral reasons) on our side of the political spectrum has his sentence commuted - which has happened on several occasions.

[Blue-Jay]

17. Instead: How about that fuckstick gets what he deserves?

Crazy-talk, I know...

[WeDidIt]

19. That would be the WORST thing he could do.

This man is a LTC. That's an O5. He is expected to set an example to the lower ranks.

Pardoning him would send the message that its fine to disobey orders for political reasons and htere will be no consequences.

Nope, the only answer is to throw the book at the fuck and give him the max sentence. Under the MCM, the panel will be made up of officers of higher rank than Lakin and I guarantee, they will throw the book at this fuck.

A pardon of Lakin would be detrimental to the operation of the military. IT would be an open invitation to mutiny.

[activa8tr]

24. I would have to agree. Letting the idiot off the hook would invite

more of the same, and send the wrong message. It would ALSO be viewed by some as abandoning the fight, caving in to the mythology of foreign birthers.

[TwilightGardener]

20. To pardon him would make light of what he did. And he'd be right back

to mouthing off about the President, having "won" by making the President back down. This is the way these people (and Teabaggers and Republicans) are--they don't ever slink off, ashamed, and say "You were right, I was wrong". They just constantly press for advantage, no shame, no apologies. Fuck no, let him rot and serve as an example.

[BklnDem75]

21. What you suggest would do the exact opposite.

Not only would it add fuel to the situation, it would send ripples throughout the ranks of the military. Remember Stefan Cook? I'm pretty positive most birthers won't recognize that name without searching the net.

[PatGund]

50. Not really....

Stefan Cook hangs out at Free Republic (roadog727) and is considered an expert on the military by the birthers, as well as "martyr" in his own right. Dr. Orly constantly trumpets her "victory" in his case, claiming the Army let him go rather than be forced to reveal the "truth" about Obama.

Stefan Cook is far from forgotten among the birthers, the majority of which believe the party line that him and Dr. Orly have parroted.

[rasputin1952]

22. No, he should face the charges...

be tried, and if found guilty, (virtually guaranteed), should lose everything and be stuck in prison.

IF PO pardoned him, it would fuel the insanity even more. The maniacs would immediately say he pardoned this idiot because he is trying to cover up his being a non-citizen.

Form a veterans POV, what this man did is inexcusable. As an O-5 he disgraced the Army and every soldier that has been called upon to fight in bush's mess. he needs to be held accountable for his actions. I hope he gets the max 2 years for each charge, 8 years beats 2, and comes out of Leavenworth a miserable figure that knows he betrayed everyone that wears a uniform for this nation.

[jenmito]

23. He'd probably reject a pardon being even MORE of a martyr to the other birthers. n/t

[activa8tr]

25. America is a wonderful nation, isn't it? It allows people to be total

numb skulls and do stupid things with their "freedom" and face the consequences.

That's EXACTLY what this idiot should be facing.

[BeyondGeography]

26. A recipe for total anarchy

:thumbsup:

[Aramchek]

27. No, this is exactly what we need. A posterboy for groundless stupidity

an example of what no to be.

[BobbyBoring]

28. There is no high road here.

We are in a very critical place as far as our armed services go. You have to remember that many people are in the military because there's no where else to go. Sure, there are a lot of smart people who just want to serve their country, but there are also a lot of people who couldn't get a job driving a Wonder Bread truck that are in the service now. Just watch any documentary from Iraq and Afghanistan and you'll see some pretty dim bulbs. Combine that with the C St. gang wanting to put a Mega Church on every major base to further twist the minds and you have a recipe for disaster on a grand scale.

A traitor can not be turned in to a martyr. It's that simple. Obama can't or won't ruin Lakins life. He's done that on his own

[old mark]

29. NO. This shit for brains has violated several regulations under the UCMJ -

most grevious among them is: Missing a Troop Movement By Design (that is, on purpose) which is a very serious offense- he deliberately did not report with his unit to go into a combat area for duty.
AND he later deliberately disobeyed 3 direct orders from officers above him for him to do so.
What he did really has nothing to do with the President, no matter what he or others may believe.
He should have resigned his commission before all this came to pass if he really believed what he says.

m

[TexasObserver]

31. That's an incredibly bad idea, maybe the worst suggestion this year.

This guy should be prosecuted, and not given any special treatment. He disobeyed direct orders. End of story.

[stevenleser]

33. I understand and applaud your intentions, but it would not work out like you think it would

There are a lot of unintended consequences for which you have not accounted. Most have already been pointed out. I think there are two things that could result from doing this:

1. He rejects the pardon and becomes a complete hero to the birther movement

2. Whether he accepts or rejects the pardon, the offer of a pardon would be spun by freepers/birthers/teabaggers/assorted Republicans as a fear of this issue going to trial and a desire to quickly sweep it under the rug.

[Paladin]

34. Yeah, That "High Road" Has Been Really Productive So Far, Hasn't It?

Obama has spent a huge amount of political capital in trying to make nice with the right-wingers, and he's gotten exactly dick for his efforts. This birther officer ought to be slammed, and slammed hard---that's the only treatment that resonates with the right. To hell with all of them.....

[Uzybone]

45. +1

[DevonRex]

35. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Because Obama wasn't really born in the USA?

No. This man needs to be behind bars. He's a traitor for refusing to serve.

[BootinUp]

38. You're nuts. Let the military handle it. nt

[backscatter712]

39. No. Let the military system handle it.

There's really no reason for Obama to get involved in this at all. This douche is going to have the UCMJ come down on him like a ton of bricks - why intervene in the process at all?

[Bad Thoughts]

40. Would Lakin accept a pardon from someone who he thinks

... is not the president? I this would be a delicious conundrum.

[BlooInBloo]

41. Not allowing a just verdict to stand for fear of what bigots think is an asinine idea.

[fujiyama]

42. I understand where you're coming from

but it wouldn't set a good precedent. Insubordination is a big deal in the military for whatever reason. If you disobey direct orders from commanding military officers - which goes all the way to the top (the CoC), then well you should face the consequences.

Excusing the breakdown in the discipline of maintaining a military is not a good idea. I say let the JAG take care of this and let the process run its course at it should.

[Lord Helmet]

43. Horseshit. He deserves to be court-martialed. nt

[mkultra]

44. so now we know to do the opposite of everything you suggest

that could be the dumbest thing i ever heard.

[IndianaGreen]

46. A grunt would have had the UCMJ book thrown at him or her for missing movement

I have no empathy for a colonel, much less for this particular colonel.

[cali]

47. rediculous. yes, I know it's spelled ridiculous, but your silly op doesn't deserve the

correct spelling.

[Saphire]

51. Toss his ass in Leavenworth.

[theothersnippywshrub]

52. Big mistake. There already is a retired Army two star dumb ass supporting this idiot fuck.

Massive punishment not only is warranted, it is essential. Bad things happen when the military forces of a country begin choosing which orders from that country's government should be obeyed.

Larkin needs to lose his freedom and his future. As does any other member of the US military who decides to choose which orders should be followed and which should not.

That being said, a partial and very, very modest commutation of an extremely severe sentence imposed following the court martial may be a good idea depending on the circumstances at the time. In the absence of an extremely severe sentence, no commutation should be occur.

[CreekDog]

53. you think this is a way to avoid bad optics and have him be a martyr but...

Are the optics of pardoning the guy before he presents his evidence any better?

You thought about all the moves if he is prosecuted, you don't seem to have thought out what you propose...which is not doing that or undoing it via pardon.

[JVS]

54. If he were to do that, it would simply result in the birthers claiming he didn't want anything to...

come out in trial.

[Old Troop]

57. I think it's about discipline

If he is not punished, why would any soldier follow orders he/she disagrees with or obey a president he/she doesn't believe is legitimate? When soldiers start deciding who is legitimate or what policy is correct, we enter the area of them deciding that we should go to war to save the country even if the civilian leadership denies it.

[Hawkeye-X]

58. Nope - he should be rotting in Ft. Leavenworth for a couple of years

as a sign of warning to other birfers.

Hawkeye-X

[SwampG8r]

60. i think obama should

let the military courts take their proper course
i edited an earliar reply that i found myself in disagreement with after seeing the replies here
i agree fully with those here saying to allow the military code be carried out in full
he is supposed to be an officer and a gentleman and slandering the CIC while in uniform is never acceptable

[ZombieHorde]

61. I don't know if I agree or not, but recommended for an interesting tactic. nt

[BlueIris]

62. I can't say I think this action would accomplish anything, but it's nice to see

you still post here.

[Lasher]

63. I was drafted into the Army in 1969. I didn't want to go but I did my time honorably and got out.

I would be resentful if your suggestion were to prevail. So would a lot of other vets.

[ima_sinnic]

64. This is so wrong on so many levels, I can't even begin, but I'll try:

Undermine the apparently well-established grounds and procedure for court martial by "intervening," "making an exception" (on what grounds? he "feels sorry" for the guy? sheesh!)
Cheapen the power/privilege of pardon by extending it to every lame-o whose candy-ass chickenshit cowardice and screwball idea comes down the pike.
Give every nutball in the military the idea that they can simply say they "don't recognize" Obama's "authority" and go AWOL and nothing will happen (like this would be sooo good for discipline!), even get their pikchur in the paper and be "heros" themselves.
Make Obama appear as though he has "something to hide" that he doesn't want to come out in a trial. The prevailing attitude, after this dominates the news 24/7 for a week or two, would be--but he STILL hasn't produced his "real" berth sirtiffacut!
Make Obama appear as though he feels "guilty," deep down inside, so he assuages that guilt by pardoning someone who will "suffer" because of his "lie."
Cheapen/weaken the charge of AWOL itself.
Treat the sorry-ass sack of shit as something more than a loser and unfit for military service.
Give the cavemen republicans one more item with which to ridicule Obama, just on general principles.

Why give legitimacy to birther and baggers. This idea is an epic fail.

Let the friggin asshole lose his medical license and his "livelihood." Who gives a crap who the 75,000 nutbaggers in the USA consider a "martyr"? They can ALL go martyr themselves in any way they please for all I care, the sooner the better. This shitheel will soon be making more money than he ever could as a hot-air bag for the looney-tune repukes, birfers, baggers, and the rest of the fringer element creeping so dangerously close to sedition.

[BootinUp]

67. and a decent effort too. lol.

couldn't agree more.

[tsuki]

65. Wrong. The military cannot allow its members to decide which orders

to follow or not follow. Obama should not intervene in the court-martial. I suspect the military will do what they did after HST desegregated the military. Allow them to leave, forfeiting all pay and VA benefits. HST did not intervene, neither should Obama. It is what it is, Lakin knew the risks.

[drm604]

66. I have to admit that the idea is satisfying in a way.

Particularly due to the fact that he would be accepting a pardon from someone who is, according to him, not legitimately able to issue a pardon. It would make Lakin a hypocrite.

However, as others have pointed out, military justice needs to proceed on it's own without such unjustified intervention. Anything else would be a threat to military cohesion.

Also, the birthers would simply claim that the President is afraid of the possibility of Lakin trying to fight it in the civilian courts and that he's trying to make the problem go away by pardoning him.