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The Presidents #18: Ulysses Grant

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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 12:39 PM
Original message
The Presidents #18: Ulysses Grant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_Grant

Discuss him and his Presidency.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 12:43 PM
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1. Underrated. Read about Reconstruction. He tried to protect the freed slaves.
Before him was Johnson, and after him came Harrison. Grant was the only one who utilized federal force in the South to protect black people. Otherwise, it was a slaughter down there.

Personally honest, he was betrayed by his so-called "friends," the precursor of what the GOP was to become at all costs: The party of the rich and the privileged.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:00 PM
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12. Correction - after Grant came Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Cleveland, and then Harrison.
I agree with your post for the most part.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I posted quickly at work. Thanks for the correction.
Of course, Rutherford Hayes, and the deal that removed Federal troops from the South in exchange for the Repukes winning a crooked election. Grant was a gem compared to what followed; there were a few decent GOP presidents (Eisenhower) and one great one (Teddy)but mostly, it's been an abysmal record since Grant.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. True. He was a good man.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 12:51 PM
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2. Poor Grant. His Presidency is vastly underrated.
I think the only President that ended up doing more for civil rights after him was Lyndon Johnson.

Was willing to use federal troops to protect blacks in the South when they went to vote.

His only failing, I think, was being as gullible and trusting as one can be--and surrounding himself with greedy, conniving jackasses who stank up his administration.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 12:52 PM
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3. Just wondering-why are you starting threads asking us to discuss every other presidency? n/t
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Why not?
Grant was all right. He could have been one of the great ones. Unfortunately, he surrounded himself with the wrong people.

He was one of those oversmart underacheivers who ended up on the right side of history, but couldn't really handle it because he wasn't prepared.

His memoirs were fascinating.

They better not replace him with Reagan on the $50 bill!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm asking WHY. This isn't a History Forum. By "Presidency" I figured DU meant OBAMA'S
presidency. :shrug:
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Because I think we need to understand how we got here
nt
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. OK. Thanks for replying.
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 02:00 PM
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5. He was the last of the strong 19th century president. After him was the Gilded Age.
He was good on reconstruction initially, indian affairs, and during his first term he fought the klan. He only has a bad rep because certain members of his administration were corrupt but he didn't profit because of it.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 02:44 PM
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8. Probably under-rated but rating him low was part of our 'reconciliation' revisionism
Probably not as bad as was once taught in school.

Grant being among the 'worst presidents ever' seems to have developed during a period (early 20th century) when all things confederate were exalted and the civil war rewritten as a cosmic accident that destroyed the best of America.

Considering that BIRTH OF A NATION was fifty years after Appomattox it was as if the 1990s greatest generation fad had been about how cool the Nazis were.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. there was a piece in TNR a while ago about this
I linked to it from Civil War Memory, it's an interesting read.

http://www.tnr.com/book/review/the-return-ulyses-s-grant?page=0%2C1
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:59 PM
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10. His presidency is getting a second, more sympathetic look.
For a long time, he was considered one of the worst presidents but he's been moving up.
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Dr Morbius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:08 PM
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11. A very underrated President.
For reasons already given. It's worth noting that while history condemns Grant for the corruption which emerged from his administration, his was no worse than Hayes and frankly not as bad. His treatment of native Americans was misguided - he tried to convert them to Christianity - but well-intentioned, and under Grant, for the first time ever, when Congress allocated funds to Indians, it actually got to them instead of being stolen by white men first.

The job Grant did in the Civil War should never be understated. He did frankly amazing work. Many people criticize him for tolerating heavy losses, but it was one of the world's first mechanized wars. Grant instinctively understood something about modern war which most of his contemporaries did not: traditional targets and goals mean next to nothing. You have to take away the enemy's ability to fight.

A really little guy, like Madison, Grant failed at practically everything he tried between the Mexican and Civil wars. And yet he ended up one of America's greatest commanders, and a pretty good President.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 11:53 PM
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16. didn't only take the Black Hills from
the Sioux people, but wanted to take their reservations too and make them go down to Oklahoma with other tribes. Gold!!
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Grant Sent Custer into the Black Hill in violation of the Treaty of 1868
link: http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#President U.S. GRANT:

President U.S. GRANT:
As Commanding General of the Union Army, Grant was appalled by the slaughter at Sand Creek. He said the actions of Colonel Chivington were nothing less than murder. In October of 1868 however General Grant was quoted by the New York Times, "....the settlers and emigrants must be protected, even if the extermination of every Indian tribe is necessary to procure such a result." 42).

Violating the separation of state and government President Grant issued an executive order in 1870, that gave franchise to various religious denominations on the reservations. The intent of this executive order was to destroy Native spiritual belief and further hurry along the process of "whipping the Indian out of the man." Some denominations went so far in making church services mandatory, rations were denied those that did not attend services, or were with-held from those that continued to practice their traditional beliefs. In some cases, when denial of rations to a reluctant "convert" did not work, rations were also denied to the relations, and family of the reluctant "convert" in an effort to prod the person along the path of Christianity. It was in effect, convert or starve, an American version of feeding the "Martyrs" to the lions.

After the Panic of 1873, President Grant was looking for a way to divert citizen's attention from the economic crisis gripping the country and the growing scandals that plagued his administration. President Grant ordered George Armstrong Custer to scout the Black Hills in search of gold, in direct violation of the treaty of 1868. One provision of the Treaty of 1868 stipulated that the government of The United States was responsible for keeping white settlers out of the Black Hills area. When thousands of miners invaded the Black Hills President Grant again violated the treaty and ordered the Army to do nothing. It was his hope that hostility would break out. It did, thus giving the U.S. government the justification to make war upon the Lakota people. 23).

In the brutal winter of 1876, President Grant ordered all Lakota People to move to the various agencies by January 31, 1876. The order stated that all Lakota that did not move to the agencies by this date would be considered "hostiles." Deep snow and temperatures that reached 45 degrees below zero prevented some of the messengers from even reaching the far flung winter encampments before the deadline passed. Those that received the order ignored it as foolishness and refused to place the lives of their elderly and young at risk and instead sent word that they would comply when the weather broke. Regardless, after the deadline passed, President Grant ordered the military campaign that ended the freedom of the Lakota People as well as led up to the demise of Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer and approximately one-third of his command at the place the Lakota called, Greasy Grass.

As President, Grant advocated and encouraged the slaughter of the buffalo. Between the years 1870-1875 the buffalo were reduced in number from more than 15 million to less than 1 million. 44). From 1874 through 1875 between ten to twenty tons of buffalo bones a day were shipped East on the Santa Fe Railroad alone. 55).

After his gross violation of the Treaty of 1868 Grant sent military negotiators to force the Lakota to "sell" the Black Hills to the United States. These very negotiators would write in 1876 of the sins that they were compelled to commit: "....Our country must forever bear the disgrace and suffer the retribution of its wrongdoing. Our children's children will tell the sad story in hushed tones, and wonder how their fathers dare so trample on justice and trifle with God." 31).






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