Obama apparently wants to see both Medicare be destroyed AND have the Repubs claim the higher ground

[brentspeak]

Why hasn't Obama thundered in front of the cameras that the Republicans' Medicare-D prescription drug entitlement from 2003 -- which allows pharma companies to bill the Medicare program as much as it wants in exchange for drugs -- is bankrupting Medicare, therefore destroying it? Why hasn't Obama grabbed the American people's attention by reminding them (and reminding them and reminding them) that they, as taxpayers, are being ripped off by the Republicans, and that it's the Republicans who have greatly contributed to the deficit. Why is he allowing the Republicans to portray themselves as "deficit hawks" without singling out the Republicans -- by name -- who were responsible for Medicare-D?

Apparently, Obama likes being pushed around by the Republicans.

[lamp_shade]

1. Oh... it's YOU.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polichick]

3. Please argue the points if you can. Much as I'd like to see the prez...

...as the good guy, it isn't always easy.

[jaxx]

4. I've heard him talk about the unfunded Part D lots of times.

Thundering at the pubs would make them happy....just like anybody else spoiling for a fight, they have got to goad that person into fighting. President Obama doesn't play their games and it frustrates them.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

16. A deal?

What deal? And I really don't think it's in the best interest of DU to call the Democratic President a reagan/republican, do you?

[brentspeak]

20. This deal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html">Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma

[jaxx]

24. Seems shaky to me.

But I do agree, it was wrong to contemplate it without house/senate input. It's in no way a done deal.

[DURHAM D]

27. So you are more concerned with the process

than the policy ? Interesting...

[jaxx]

31. That isn't what I said.

Don't try to spin my words to fit your agenda.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donnachaidh]

60. how do you know it's not a *done deal*?

Do you have a mole in the Oval Office?

I'd be more inclined to think it IS a done deal, primarily because he's been pushing so hard to get that POS Senate bill pushed through, complete with mandates.

Transparency was also another campaign policy tossed on the dung heap.

[IndianaGreen]

5. There is that PhRMA deal with the White House

which made Obama tell Congress to vote against the importation of cheaper drugs from Canada.

Obama's words are sweet and seductive, but his deeds are harsh and cruel.

[boomerbust]

44. Yes it's so frustrating

We all know Hilary would have done a much better job.

[Lilyeye]

49. "We All" Don't know if Hillary would have done better.

[IndianaGreen]

51. A President Hillary would not have appeased the rightwing of both parties

like Obama has, and she would have fought for a better bill.

[goclark]

53. Right ~ the Repubs would have rolled right over

for HRC ~ they would have let her have her way all the time.IDTS

[IndianaGreen]

54. She would have fought, instead of throwing in the towel as the first move

as Obama did on Single Payer.

[Lilyeye]

66. Once again...WE DON'T KNOW. That is what you think she would have done.

And isn't she accused by some of being apart of the DLC with Obama and Rahm?

[Sebastian Doyle]

75. Accused? Hillary is KNOWN to be part of the DLC from day one

The centerpiece of her original Presidential platform was a plan to privatize Social Security, for fucks sake! It was called the "American Dream Initiative" and it's probably still on the DLC website, if you can stomach that sickening site long enough to look around. :puke:

[Lilyeye]

76. Thanks for that info,

So if Hillary was planning to privatize Social Security, how can anyone claim she would have fought for single payer?

[Sebastian Doyle]

79. She definitely would NOT have fought for single payer

Corporate mandates were the starting point of Hillary's 2008 health care plan. Candidate Obama was right to refute this nonsense by comparing it to solving homelessness by requiring everybody to buy a house. Too bad he seems to have forgotten saying that. :evilfrown:

[golfguru]

63. Very succint! n/t

[jefferson_dem]

6. Well, it is funny when Republicans make the case that the Bush Administration...

lost their way and was also guilty of financial excess. Are they running on the repeal of Medicare Part D and the Bush tax cuts?

[babylonsister]

7. Prove he wants to destroy medicare. Is that your opinion, or has he

said that? And why no links?

Obama has stated that the deficit was driven up by the rethugs. Do you have selective hearing/comprehension skills?

EPIC FAIL, as usual.

[IndianaGreen]

8. What about the huge Medicare cuts in the Senate's HCR?

Seniors don't trust this Administration anymore than they trust the GOP.

[DURHAM D]

9. Yep - With good reason...

one body - two heads.

one looking right and other looking further right.

[jaxx]

11. Seniors need to know about Rep. Ryan wanting to give them vouchers

for Medicare. Vouchers that won't cover the costs and will leave them to go deep into debt or do without health care. That is why Medicare was started, to give seniors the vital care they need and the republicans are trying to take it away.

They have no reason to trust the GOP....ever. There is no comparison between this administration and the GOP.


<snip> As you all know by now, the long-term budget deficit is largely driven by health-care costs. To move us to surpluses, Ryan's budget proposes reforms that are nothing short of violent. Medicare is privatized. Seniors get a voucher to buy private insurance, and the voucher's growth is far slower than the expected growth of health-care costs. Medicaid is also privatized. The employer tax exclusion is fully eliminated, replaced by a tax credit that grows more slowly than medical costs. And beyond health care, Social Security gets guaranteed, private accounts that CBO says will actually cost more than the present arrangement, further underscoring how ancillary the program is to our budget problem.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/rep_paul_ryans_daring_budget_p.html

[IndianaGreen]

13. Like I said, seniors cannot trust either party when it comes to Medicare

A quick death, or death by a thousand cuts, is still death!

[jaxx]

17. It makes a huge difference where the cuts are done.

The repugs will cut the care, the dems will cut the waste. Again, there is no comparison.

[busymom]

41. Doctors are waste?

The dems are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. The CMS has already removed the ability to pay specialists for consults (this was quietly ushered in on Jan 1). Specialists can now not bill for those visits at a higher level despite needing substantially more time to actually take care of someone who is very sick. It takes a few minutes to realize you are in over your head and your patient needs the care of someone specialized in an area of medicine. It might take that specialist over an hour to review your chart and all tests, see you, talk to your family, order new tests, review the results and come up with a game plan. They can now not bill any more for those services than the person who referred the patient. Game Over for specialty care.

Dems are going to make sure the 21% in additional cuts goes through.

Private insurers will follow. We will have hospital and clinic closings and docs less and less willing to spend adequate time with their patients....because unlike in Europe and Canada, medical education in America costs upwards of $150,000. Residents in America earn less than minimum wage when you account for how many hours they work. Add in demanding patients, grieving families and the job stress....I predict many more of our nation's best and brightest going into business in the future.

Where should we make cuts? How should we pay for this.

I am 100% behind universal care...and could even back a public option with mandates. But...every single American now pays a progressive tax for it without exemption for income.

I get angry about this issue because my brother is 36, earns 30k/year and refuses health insurance through his company that would cost him $179/month and is a pretty good plan. He has a better dental plan than I do, too. His employer (our dad) forced him to buy it and he complains about it all. the. time. Of course, it sure came in handy 2 months ago when he opened up the door to his new truck, hit himself in the head with the door so hard that he passed out and ended up in the ER with a lot of stitches. Somehow, the point is lost on him that he would have had to pay for that ambulance and ER visit if he hadn't had insurance. From him: "I just wouldn't have paid for it." Nice. There is no cure for stupid, I guess.

[brentspeak]

19. Agreed, and it's Obama and Democratic leadership's job to hightlight Ryan's role to the public

along with the role played by the other hypocritical Republicans. Failure to do so means the Democrats are wimps with no public relations political sense and no fighting spirit.

[jaxx]

22. Some of them are wimps...but not the President.

Get the ads out, get the dems talking about it. Tell the seniors what the repugs want to do to them. Send emails, I sent that one about Ryan to everybody I know. It's not just one person's job to bring everything out. He's good, but he isn't perfect.

[brentspeak]

28. I fail to see what's so "good" about Obama

On almost every issue, he has floundered like a drowning fish. The only time he has shown any decisive passion has been when he advocated for things that would harm average Americans, like imposing an insurance mandate, or pushing for the TARP bailout as senator, or appointing corporate stooges like Arne Duncan, Tim Geithner, and advocating for Ben Bernanke.

[jaxx]

30. Look at the changes that have been made since he took office.

Start with the Lilly Ledbetter Act and go from there.

You aren't required to like all of his appointees. But corporate stooges is over the top.

[brentspeak]

32. "Corporate stooges" fits the bill n/t

[IndianaGreen]

50. Obama has been very proactive and forceful when it came to signing PATRIOT extension

and in preventing the prosecution of Bush regime war criminals and torturers, not to mention in blocking Single Payer and derailing the public option.

What a pal!

[DURHAM D]

29. You seem to be missing the point -

Obama is working to dismantle Medicare.

He has been making his position clear on this since the beginning of the primary season. Did you not notice?

[jaxx]

33. I think that is totally and 100% wrong.

He is not trying to dismantle Medicare, but the repugs will tell you that. It covers their asses when they are really trying to privatize it.

[DURHAM D]

34. Ok - I give up.

Believe what you want to believe.

[dionysus]

43. you mean the "medicare advantage" cuts that aren't Medicare? way to buy the repuke swill hook line

and sinker.

[karynnj]

47. The cuts follow the Medicare system's advise

They are cutting waste - they are not cutting benefits.

[flpoljunkie]

55. The cuts are not benefit cuts. They are reduction in payments to Medicare Advantage providers over

ten years. The donut hole will be closed by 2020. This is good for seniors.

[roseBudd]

56. Medicare Advantage is not Medicare, crucial distinction,..

Medicare Advantage is Republican privatization

[golfguru]

64. But the old foggies love medicare advantage

It is not wise to make them angry,,,,those people vote!

[roseBudd]

72. Of course they do, generational theft for them is good theft

They also stupidly believe their minuscule premiums are paying for it.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Oh, please... this is the sort of thing that makes...

the public's eyes glaze over. The last thing they want to hear is some wonk arguing over "who did it."

The "public" wants to be reassured that it will get something it wants and it will not cost too much. It usually tries not to get too involved in the details or schoolyard bickering.

[brentspeak]

15. Is the President of the United States "some wonk"?

The public also wants to see Medicare continue, not destroyed. Unless someone in Washington reverses the Medicare-D portion, it most certainly will get destroyed. And polls are proving that Republicans' own version of events concerning who's responsible for the deficits are having a positive effect for them and against the Democrats.

The last thing the public wants is to see their nation hurdle over the cliffs; they want real leadership to prevent that from happening, not some nervous milquetoast politician who is merely continuing the status quo.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Says you, but that's not necessarily true. Nor is it necessary...

to bring it up in a public argument. Part D does suck in a lot of ways, but the point is to deal with it, not engage in more fearmongering.

Besides, there are a number of ways to deal with it, none of them "the best" but it is best to work them out in the background.

[brentspeak]

26. "Fearmongering"?

Do you deny that Medicare-D will help destroy Medicare?

There is only one way to "deal with it" -- get rid of it, decisively. Obama has shown no inclination to be decisive and "deal with it" in any capacity.

[Jennicut]

14. Obama talked about Medicare part D at the health care summit during an exchange with Tom Coburn:

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: You know, the assumption that's important for the American people to hear. We have Medicare Part D, except no senior in this country ever paid a tax dollar for it. And we're talking about filling a doughnut hole on a program that they're already benefiting from that we're going to leave $11 trillion in debt for our children. I'm not sure the seniors wants us to leave more debt for their children to fill a doughnut hole.

And when we talk about filling the doughnut hole by taking away from people who can't afford to buy a supplemental policy, that's where Medicare Part A helps poor people in Oklahoma is they get to buy Medicare Part C. We never call it Part C, but that's what it is. And they don't have to buy a supplemental policy. So consequently, they get lots of the benefits that other people who have better buying power in Medicare with a supplemental policy.

So it's a tradeoff of whether or not we say, Where are we going to give the benefits? What we really should be doing is saying,

We're broke. Medicare's broke. We're working, struggling together to try to get there. Let's not add new benefits anywhere and let's make sure the benefits that we have today get applied more equitably.

OBAMA: Well, I think that's a legitimate point. I would just point out that 80 percent of seniors are helping to pay in extra premiums for the 20 percent who are in this Medicare Advantage, and it's not means-tested. So it's not as if the people who in Medicare Advantage are somehow the poor people who can't afford supplementals. It's pretty random.

And what we also know is, and I just want to point this out, Tom, $180 billion of it is going to insurance companies. It's not going to seniors. It's going to insurance companies, including big insurance company profits, (inaudible) appreciable improvement in health care benefits. That's not a good way for us to spend money.

I agree with you about the fact that the prescription drug plan added to our deficits, because we didn't pay for it. And I just add the point that didn't happen under my watch. It happened under the previous Congress. There's some people -- you know, John was an example of somebody who was true to his convictions and didn't vote for it.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: But -- but the fact of the matter is that, you know, that was costly, and we do have to deal with that. On the other hand, the problem I don't think is that we gave seniors a prescription drug benefit. I think the problem is that we didn't pay for it, and we should try to find a way to pay for it. Taking some of that money out of Medicare Advantage and putting it into that doughnut hold does pay for it.

All right. I really breached protocol here, but I thought that was important to just get clear. We are talking about Medicare Advantage in terms of where these cuts come from, not Medicare benefits through the traditional Medicare plan.http://www.rdmag.com/News/FeedsAP/2010/02/life-sciences-health-care-summit-part-1/

[brentspeak]

18. How polite, how conversational,..how completely ineffective

On Monday, the Republicans will go right back to parading themselves as deficit hawks and Obama as the great deficit expander. Meanwhile, Obama still hasn't announced any plans to reverse Medicare-D or even close the doughnut-hole. But at least he has "discussed" it...

[babylonsister]

23. Not his job...

snip//

We stand here at a key moment in the passage of Healthcare reform. Some have said that the President's adoption of various elements of the bill - in his latest attempt to kickstart a stalled process - and his repackaging of the reform amounts to a failure of leadership.

The reality is that the failure exists wholly in the legislative process. We should not demand our president to be a legislator. Far from it. We should insist upon separation of the legislative and executive. To place upon the head of our president - a failure of a single institution - is to misdirect us as to the nature of the beast.

snip//

Ask yourself - if a public healthcare reform proposal arose from the halls of the legislative process - that contained a National Health Service - would Obama sign it?

If your answer is yes, then there is no failure of his leadership. His job is to sign the bill into law. Not write it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x202199

[rusty fender]

36. Yeah, it's not like Obama

has any influence over the legislative process, it's not like he has that kind of power, it's not like he is President of the U.S. or something like that. What do expect of him? It's like asking the local grocer to do something about getting the legislation he wants introduced; it's not his job, afterall.:sarcasm:

[Autumn]

25. And he "discussed" it

so fiercely.

[BeFree]

37. Obama is kicking ass

I'd hate to be in opposition to him. No wonder the republicans are so off-the-wall, he's got them slowly twisting in the wind.

And just look at all the sound bites being recorded. Come this election the TV will be full of republican crybaby hypocrites, Democrats standing tall for the people.

It's good to be a Democrat these days.

[bjjblackbelt]

38. ...

Pardon me, you forgot to add this at the end of your post: :sarcasm:


Next time just type : sarcasm : (no spaces)

You are very welcome :)

[jenmito]

39. Get lost. n/t

[bjjblackbelt]

58. Sad...

Apparently the only thing not lost at this point is the "hope" on any "change" happening to the corporate/militaristic agenda.

[firedupdem]

59. Is that the new talking point?

:rofl:

You guys hate that "hope and change" kicked ass!

[NYC_SKP]

40. You never fail to make me roar...

...with laughter!

I'm wondering why the president hasn't decriminalized Crack Cocaine.

Ever wonder about that?

:P

[dionysus]

42. woo woo

:rofl:

[bvar22]

45. Why?

...because he is one of "them", not one of "us".
Anybody who had "HOPE" that Obama would be a hero of the American Working Class should have let THAT go the day Obama picked his CoS and named his cabinet.

The DLC New Team
Republican Lite ONLY!

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)


Brand Obama/Hope & Change was an incredibly successful Corporate Marketing Scam.
There are STILL some people who believe the HOPE HYPE from the 2008 campaign despite the almost daily proof that it was ALL Bullshit.
The truth is that Election 2008 was a crushing defeat for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party,
and a crushing defeat for Americans who Work for a Living.

A Quick Review:

The DLC Dream List
"Mission Accomplished"

*WARS fully funded and EXPANDING. Bill sent to our children…...Mission Accomplished !

*Trillion Dollars given to friends and campaign contributors on Wall Street. No Strings Attached...Mission Accomplished!

*Military Spending INCREASED....Mission Accomplished!

*Trillion+ Dollars given to the Health Insurance Industry. Easily Avoidable, symbolic only strings attached....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Force all Americans to buy invisible products from For Profit Corporations who manufacture NOTHING, and create no (Value Added) wealth..."A Uniquely American Solution"..indeed. .....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Kill the possibility for a REAL "Public Option" or REAL Universal Health Care for at least another generation, and begin the “Entitlement Reform” defunding of Medicare (-$500 Billion)....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Block ANY REAL re-regulation of BIG BANKS and Credit Cards....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the Bush War Criminals and Torturers from JUSTICE....Mission Accomplished.

*Throw the GBLTs under the bus and expand "faith based" initiatives....Mission Accomplished!

*Reinforce the worst Police State provisions of the Patriot Act and strengthen the Unitary Executive....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the very richest. Tell the Working Class that they CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs.....Mission Accomplished!

*EFCA (Employee Free Choice Act) killed in the crib....Mission Accomplished!

*More Anti-LABOR "Free Trade"....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Jobless Recovery....Mission Accomplished

*The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party SHUT OUT of the Obama Administration…...Mission Accomplished!

*Accelerate the destruction of Public Education...Mission Accomplished!

*Bury next generation under such a debt burden that they will never be able to afford any social or economic programs that will benefit their Working Class....Mission Accomplished.

And ALL this in less than a year!!!

The seeds for the destruction of Medicare have been carefully planted in the HCR Bill (-$500Billion).

It is NO SECRET that the DLC has always wanted to give Social Security to their friends and patrons on Wall Street. The destruction of Social Security was one of the platform planks for the formation of the DLC. (You can STILL find this on their website).
The campaign to do this has already started.
They call it "Entitlement Reform".
It IS next on the DLC Hit List.

The "NEW" Democrats
Putting MORE Public Money into Private Pockets than the Republicans could EVER dream about!

”I am a New Democrat!”---Barack Obama
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254931&kaid=85&subid=900184

Thats really too bad, because I'm an "Old Democrat".
I KNOW better.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[DevonRex]

46. Just when I think your posts can't get any more stupid, you post this.

:rofl:

[azmouse]

48. And I don't think he's hit bottom yet.

Just wait til Obama gets re-elected in 2012. I expect we'll see a total meltdown from this OP and many others.

....I can hardly wait.

[dionysus]

57. oh, give them some credit, it can still get stupider from here..

:hi:

[DevonRex]

73. I almost hope so.

It's just too delicious to end now. :hi:

[dionysus]

74. you conservadem!! CRUiSE MISSLES!!1!

;)

[vaberella]

77. ...

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

52. Apparently Obama isn't an infantile poser.

Unlike some right here.

:eyes:

[NYC_SKP]

61. I love Parker Poser. She was in "Best in Show". I think she's from Mississippi.

Maybe her name was parker posey, not poser.

I dunno, but I like her!

[cliffordu]

62. FINALLY! Something we disagree about.

Can't stand her.

Almost as bad as Tori Spelling....

[NYC_SKP]

65. You're kidding, right? Tori Spelling, good god, man, you must be insane!

Tori Spelling, daughter of GENIUS Aaron Spelling, who brought BOTH of us so much joy growing up in front of the teevee.

Take it back!

Admit it, Tori is SMOKIN'!!!

[cliffordu]

67. Stop posting photos of that killer Orca.

[NYC_SKP]

68. On a totally related subject, I just read about this:

Totally.

Related.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7816753

[cliffordu]

70. Yep. Completely related.

[grahamhgreen]

69. Because he may well be a corporatist neo-con salesman, ie Bush Lite. nt

[cliffordu]

71. lol. Nice try.

[Enthusiast]

78. Yet another mysterious Obama behavior.

The American people know that they are paying FAR too much for drugs. And they feel they are being bilked unfairly by the pharmaceutical industry. The "American People" that feel abused are the voting public. Doing something so obviously against their interests angers these voters. How do I know this? I am one of them and I am pissed off.

Allowing the reimportation of drugs is the very least the government can do to lower prices and strengthen medicare.