Do you ever believe that Obama is really the last hope for this country?

[LeftyAndProud60]

Say he loses in 2012. I don't think this country could survive more tax cuts for the rich, more cuts in government programs, more wars and all of the other crap they seem eager to repeat from the Bush administration. They seem to want to do the same things Bush did and expect different results. It's really scary when you think about it. I was watching some of John Bolton's speech at that CPAC crap, it was scary as hell. These are the kind of people they put in charge of very important agencies.

[NanceGreggs]

1. Say he loses in 2012 ...

... or say he doesn't.

Because he won't.

[GeorgeGist]

13. As I recall, your judgment of men ...

by your own accounting, is piss poor.

[Cha]

23. Obviously not. .she's married to

DUer JeffR.

[Knight Hawk]

53. As Kipling wrote...........

"Don't look too good nor talk too wise,there is an very good chance he will be working with a less friendly Congress from 1010-1012.He is too weak to lead this country in these times.The country is trending right.Hopefully we can find another Clinton ,Roosevelt or LBJ to get us through this mess.

[PhD]

2. Not at all

The country will be fine no matter who's in charge, because there's too many checks and balances to keep anyone from screwing things up too badly. Those founding fathers were pretty sharp fellas after all...

[Go2Peace]

4. what?

The country will be fine? I suppose it depends on what you think "fine" is.

Have you lived in a 2cd world country? I have. We are close to the edge and about to fall over. The constitution unfortunately won't save us. What makes or breaks a country is how dedicated the people are to each other's welfare. All a constitution does is gives a people the tools to aid them in getting there.

There are some 2cd world countries out there with fairly strong laws and constitutions on the books. But what good does it do you if your supreme court is bought out by oligarchs?

[PhD]

39. I simply disagree that only one person is the "last hope" of the country

I even think its very possible Obama won't be the Democratic nominee in 2012. He may be so unpopular that the party turns to someone like Hillary instead.

[LeftyAndProud60]

8. That's just it, when Repubs are in office, they always have at least 5-10 dems willing to help them

destroy the country. Bush didn't go into Iraq by himself.

[Fire1]

17. Really? * did a bang up job of screwing this country almost

beyond repair, in spite of the "too many checks and balances." The last eight years is proof positive that your statement is, for lack of a better term, bullshit.

[Flying Dream Blues]

41. Yes, those checks and balances like the Supreme Court? bwahahahahahahahahaha.

[salguine]

44. Are you joking!? The whole system of checks and balances has completely collapsed! Have you been

asleep for the last decade!?

[Hekate]

47. roflmao. Which cave have you been living in since 2000? See my post #46...

... for full answer.

Hekate

[Skittles]

3. I certainly fucking hope not

[Go2Peace]

5. Not the last, but every year that corruption is enabled to grow makes it harder

to get back what we lost.

What is worse is our country survives not on the strength of it's people's character, which is weak in this period of time, but it is surviving almost purely on riches and the institutions we build in the past, that are still holding together. Once we lost the riches, say if the dollar collapses, we have very little other foundation on which to compete against a hungery and competitive world.

[proudohioan]

27. Excellent point! n/t

[LeftyMom]

6. insert amused, bitter laughter here

I sure fucking hope not.

[Raine]

7. If he is

we are already screwed. :-(

[Greyhound]

9. +01

[tazkcmo]

10. no. n/t

[pecwae]

11. Nope.

[OHdem10]

12. Obama will be needed as President for a Republican Congress

to pass all their destructive bills and have them legitimized.

"After all a Democratic President signed it."

It is the Democratic Congress that is in more jeopardy.

[polichick]

14. God, I hope not. He's not nearly the change agent we really need...

...way too invested in the status quo (Wall Street, health insurers, big pharma, the mic, dirty coal etc.) and dicking around with Republicans.

imo we'll have to be a lot smarter about our next pick - make it a populist progressive.

[IndianaGreen]

15. Candidate Obama was

President Obama is another story.

[LWolf]

16. I never believed he was "hope" for this country, and the last year proves me correct.nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Nnnnnope.

[LatteLibertine]

19. Some days I believe it's already over

we're printing funny money, are in massive debt, and are firmly in the grasp of crony capitalism and corporatism.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

20. Hope springs eternal

just not with this administration.

[asdjrocky]

21. LOL!

He is our saviour.

I'm telling you, no politician will save you. You have to save yourself.

[QC]

25. I used to feel the same way about the president,

until I touched the hem of his garment and was healed of an issue of blood.

[asdjrocky]

32. Nailed it. nt

[Kitsune]

22. He was, before he pissed away the opportunity for real structural reform in this country.

Thanks to his whole-hearted endorsement of the status quo, I think we're pretty much fucked. Obama will be defined by the right wing media as the new far-left, and Democrats will happily move to the right even further to avoid being labeled with the dreaded l-word, and America will continue its slow degeneration into a third-world hellhole.

Call me a pessimist, but I see very little to be hopeful about at this point.

[impik]

24. I do. I think that if he fails, if he'll go home in 2012 - then that's the end

The damage Bush inflicted may just be irreversible.

[Ozymanithrax]

26. No, because we do not live on Babylon 5...

A Republican Administration in 2012 will be hard on individual freedoms and kill even the smallest progressive development for some time. What small chance that something will be done about peak oil or global warming will disapear.

The U.S. existance as a Super Power (call it empire/hegemony/etc.) is coming to an end. That ending will neither be kind nor easy. It is irrelevant who is in charge. What we become after that reamins hidden by the future.

[yurbud]

28. If it is close enough to steal, you know what the GOP will do, and Dems seem intent

on just winning by the tiniest margin possible instead of rolling over the GOP like a tsunami.

[busymom]

29. No

Because it doesn't matter if we have a democrat or republican in office. Our legislatures pretty much bend over no matter what. It seems like they complain when the repub is in office that they can't do anything and are in the minority (if they are) and then when they have a dem in office and the majority they are so busy tripping over themselves that they squander opportunities too.

No...Obama won't be the last opportunity that we dems have to screw it all up.

[TankLV]

30. No. But he's certainly a big DISAPPOINTMENT. That's for sure...

But being better than a piece of crap like old smelly balls mcINsane was hardly a "choice"...and doesn't say much...

[Upfront]

31. Hell no!

Dean or Grayson may be though. As it stands now I can't vote again for Obama. I just won't vote for president if he is the choice. If he even attempts do what he said he would i would have to reconsider. Don't think it will happen though. He seems to be owned like most of them.

[namahage]

33. Ah yes. Alan Grayson, with his principled vote on the US PATRIOT Act.

Oh, wait.

[stevenleser]

51. Which we still dont know enough about. Which items are still in? Which are out? n/t

[LeftyAndProud60]

35. Well don't complain when Pres Thune/Bush/or Romney is fucking you over. NT

[salguine]

45. Why not go with them? Better to be stabbed in the chest than in the back.

[Kalun D]

34. No difference

"Say he loses in 2012."
It won't make much difference

"I don't think this country could survive more tax cuts for the rich,"
the bush tax cuts are still in place despite Obama's promise that getting rid of them was going to be the first thing he did.

"more cuts in government programs,"
Obama just did a closed door deal to cut medicare, medicaid and social security.

"more wars"
Obama has not taken us out of Iraq and he's escalated Afghanistan

"all of the other crap"
Gitmo still open for business
Bush justice dept still in place
Telecoms not accountable for wiretap
Patriot Act re-upped
Signing statements still in effect
republicans insiders appointed to banking positions

"They seem to want to do the same things Bush did and expect different results."
No they expect the same results, they just tell you there's going to be different results and expect you to believe it.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Bunch of bullshit you typed there......

"I don't think this country could survive more tax cuts for the rich,"
the bush tax cuts are still in place despite Obama's promise that getting rid of them was going to be the first thing he did.

WRONG - Obama stated that he would let tax cuts for the rich expire. That's what he doing. period.



"more cuts in government programs,"
Obama just did a closed door deal to cut medicare, medicaid and social security.

WRONG - Obama's budgets have increased most expenditures in many Government programs. As for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, there hasn't been any cuts made to any of them. If you are so uniformed as to what the Medicare cuts mean that Obama is discussing (they don't mean fewer benefits), then you need to stop typing and start reading information so you can learn what is actually going on. As for Medicare, the President wants to raise the taxable Cap on the richest among us. so there goes your doesn't want to tax the rich, and wants to "cut" medicare theory!



"more wars"
Obama has not taken us out of Iraq and he's escalated Afghanistan

WRONG - Pres. Obama is doing exactly what he'd say he would do, period. There are not "MORE" wars. There is the winding down of one, and an actual strategy in place for the other, neither are wars that he started, but they will be wars he ends.



"all of the other crap"
Gitmo still open for business -

CORRECT Congress refused to fund its closure, and Obama is still working for a way to get it done, IN SPITE of a Congress and scary Americans who are easily manipulated by the GOP and our Media.



Bush justice dept still in place

Don't know about that I don't personally think so, but that's up to opinion, and not enough time has elapse to make such a conclusion, unless you simply want to.



Telecoms not accountable for wiretap
- See below



Patriot Act re-upped

CORRECT - Re-upped for one year as it passed both houses of Congress by a majority that would overturn a veto, and would certainly do so in an election year, leaving the Patriot Act re-upped, no matter the President's actions.



Signing statements still in effect

you are out of date on this. And there is a very significant difference with the Bush signing statements and the few that this President has done, but you knew that....I would hope.



republicans insiders appointed to banking positions

This doesn't make any sense to me, so you will have to get more specific. thanks



"They seem to want to do the same things Bush did and expect different results."

WRONG That statement is not true, no matter how much you twist all that you twist in order to get there. You can be mad, disappointed, and not want to support this President, but that still wouldn't make that statement true.



No they expect the same results, they just tell you there's going to be different results and expect you to believe it.

WRONG NO, they don't expect the same results, and they are not getting the same results.....except to those who choose to believe this because in their world, unless is it as they have decided it should be, than it is all the same. We all don't live in that world....so you can say the things you say, but it doesn't make them true.

[Knight Hawk]

54. What?

If the new health care bill goes through as written it will cut 500 billion dollars from Medicare Advantage .Medicare Advantage is particularly helpful for lower income seniors.It reduces the amount that they have to pay for Medicare part B by 67-100% in exchange for them using a approved network of doctors,hospitals etc.It pays for many things that straight Medicare does not pay for.It is mostly used by healthy middle and lower income seniors .It is definitely an advantage for these people and Obama is definitely willing to see it cut.

[Kalun D]

55. TV SHOW (fictional drama category)

""WRONG - Obama stated that he would let tax cuts for the rich expire. That's what he doing. period.""

Obama said he was going to rescind the cuts in his first year. As soon as he got in office he said, "we can't do it in this recession" BS, it would help get us out of recession.

""WRONG - Obama's budgets have increased most expenditures in many Government programs. As for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, there hasn't been any cuts made to any of them.""

It's a closed door deal, just like his one with big pharma, we have yet to see what's going to happen.

"WRONG - Pres. Obama is doing exactly what he'd say he would do, period."

he said he was going to get out of Iraq, he hasn't. He's escalated Afghanistan. There's no reason to be there, I don't care what he said, it's wrong. Killing civilians is not going to stop terror, it's going to escalate it, of course that's what the warmongers that own Obama want.

"CORRECT Congress refused to fund its closure (gitmo), and Obama is still working for a way to get it done,"

patriot act "it passed both houses of Congress by a majority that would overturn a veto"

funny how when it's something good like meaningful health care reform or closing Gitmo Obama is meek as a church mouse. And when it's defense appropriations suddenly he's strong arming dems and getting his bill rammed through. When it comes to something good for the working class or rights, OBAMA SUDDENLY DOESN'T TRY VERY HARD.

""And there is a very significant difference with the Bush signing statements and the few that this President has done, ""

Obama said there was going to be NO MORE signing statements.

republicans insiders appointed to banking positions

""This doesn't make any sense to me, so you will have to get more specific. thanks""

Geitner and Bernanke are REPUBLICANS, the criminal banking sector is still in place, none of the bad rules that allowed the biggest theft in history have been changed, it's business as usual. In addition they are both total insiders which Obama promised not to appoint. Gates at defense is also a republican appointed by a republican.

"They seem to want to do the same things Bush did and expect different results."

"WRONG That statement is not true,"

Gates at defense, was originally appointed by bush, Gitmo unchanged, protection for wiretappers unchanged, tax cuts for the rich unchanged, criminal banking unchanged. Hey Obama got $700 BILLION for a few hundred of his criminal banker friends and is now offering a whopping $1.5 Billion for the millions of foreclosed homeowners. Goldman Sachs was Obama's 2nd largest contributor at $996,000. It paid off in the $BILLIONS.

""WRONG NO, they don't expect the same results, and they are not getting the same results.""

they are getting the exact results that the corporations want. In the run-up to the final Senate health care "reform" bill, big insurance lobbied like never before. Near the end the lobbying suddenly stopped because the corporations had the bill they wanted. They even sent a message to the press, "we win". Then Obama said, "this is the bill we need to pass", the one that the corps had just successfully lobbied for.

""We all don't live in that world.""

You mean the one where you think the ObamaRahma "We Are Change" (corporate sponsored) TV show is real? No some of us recognize it as FICTION.

[depakid]

36. Repudiating Bush out in 2004 was the last hope

[mikekohr]

38. We are the last hope for this country

and President Obama has been saying this for some time. It's up to us.

-Don't look outside of yourself for leadership- old Indian proverb

[high density]

40. No, it already seems quite hopeless

Congress is eager to keep gaming the system for the wealthy elites. They want the rest of us to just charge up credit cards and buy lots of shit and then die young.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

42. No, he isn't our last hope. We'll be hurt very badly if he loses in 2012, but we'll make it.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hekate]

46. I remember Bush's 8 years exceedingly well. The future of our nation stood on the edge of a knife...

... by the time he and his cronies were done with us. I had misgivings that their foul deeds could EVER be undone -- and I knew that it could not happen in a year.

Given that set of circumstances, how stupid do you (generic you, not you personally) have to be to think Obama has personally "failed" in one year or any of the rest of the crap that gets thrown around?

Beyond that, by the middle of the summer of 2008 we had two choices: Barack Obama or John McCain, and of the two, McCain was going to continue Bush's regime and possibly make it worse, given his temperament and ill-health. Of the two, Obama was the most likely to TRY to do something that would benefit our nation and ourselves as individuals.

In answer to your question: YES, GOD DAMMIT, BARACK OBAMA IS THE LAST HOPE FOR THIS COUNTRY. IF HE CAN'T GET IT RIGHT AND IF WE DON'T HELP HIM GET IT RIGHT, WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO HAVE MUCH OF OUR DEMOCRACY LEFT.

THE LEGACY OF BUSH-CHENEY-RUMSFELD-ROVE LIVES ON.

OBAMA IS ONLY ONE HUMAN BEING. HE IS NOT PERFECT, NOR IS HE LUKE SKYWALKER OR ARAGORN OF ARATHORN. WE HAVE TO DO OUR PART OR THIS WAR IS NOT GOING TO BE WON.

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

Hekate

[Zoeisright]

48. Yes I do.

He WAS the last hope. We're too far gone now for things to be fixed. The climate is going to hit a tipping point soon, there is no way the economy can recover, and Americans are just too fucking stupid to elect more Democrats in November.

[stevenleser]

50. I mostly agree. I think there is still hope that Obama will turn things around

and good indications considering the last 3-4 weeks that the administration understands they need to do things differently.

[depakid]

56. Differently like going before the Chamber of Commerce and castigating teachers?

Or publicly backing a Senator that's been a huge thorn in the side of getting responsible health care passed?

Things like that are really going to rally the base for November, huh?

[Forkboy]

49. I try not to think about it.

[warm regards]

52. No...

I didn't expect very much.

[Lord Tredegars Macaw]

57. That would suggest he is indispensible.

You know what graveyards are full of....

President Obama is a fine man, with high hopes, and the toughest of jobs to wrestle with.

He is not the last hope for a nation. Nobody is. There is always hope. Ideals are bigger than a single figure.