Could Someone Extend An Olive Branch, Or Is The Situation Hopeless?

[Dinger]

You know, the "Obama-haters" and the "apologists"? I have a dream . . . .

We are all, after all, Democrats, aren't we? I'm sure some here see me as an "Obama-hater," but they'd be wrong. I really don't like some (not all) of his appointees. I do like his appointment of Sonia Sotomayor, a lot. I also like his appointment of Hillary Clinton. I do like that he tries to reach across the aisle (but don't like when he keeps coming back to them after they repeatedly spit in his face. Sickening.)

As for the "apologists," I understand that there are people who feel very strongly in this President and in a future for this country. President Obama was left with an awful mess, thanks to the giggling murderer. I can't even imagine how anyone could try and bring this country back to what it once was, but I do believe he will try his best. I just wish, . . . nevermind. Just throwin' this out there. If it goes south, it goes south.

[Cha]

1. "Apologists"? I support the President's success and

work for that..and I let him know when I don't agree with something.

[Dinger]

Self-delete. Accidental Dupe (nt)

[Dinger]

3. I Don't Like The Word Either

That's why I put it in quotes. I can still edit, if you have a better suggestion, I'll change it.

[Oregone]

13. "I support the President's success and..." - Why?!?

Shouldn't you rather support good policy?

I know they can be one and the same, but sometimes this is not the case. Shouldn't our goals be to promote social justice and a more egalitarian society, above and beyond promoting the success of a man or a party?

If you support his success, you support anything and everything he proposes, despite its actual impact on the country. He could to turn around tomorrow and say he wants to privatize education, but his success could be a failure for America.

Its great when the two are the same. When they are not, lobby the administration to make it so, if possible. Do not lobby the people to bend and give up--to cede their interests--instead. Precedence should be given to policy over politics.

Sometimes challenging the president to be more progressive for the people could make him more successful. You know, its possible all of FDRs ideas were not entirely his own, but his success is undeniable

[Go2Peace]

24. The problem is not opinions. It is different ideas of what DU is meant to be for

There is a group here, that sees DU as a place to spin out talking points. That basically is completely at odds with a liberal "forum".

The ones who are on here primarily to express themselves and opinions get frustrated by it. And because part of the idea that we are in a "media war", which is what the mentioned group believes is going on here, is that they feel they have to discredit those who don't agree with them, so others end up fighting back because they feel like they are being bullied. This of course just adds to the problem.

It has built through this situation. And it is terribly agitated by the rec system. If the mods removed the incentive to spam and try to control the dialog on the "Greatest Page" I think the site would become less attractive for this kind of activity and it might calm down a bit. I also think if they implimented limits on the number of OPs you could spawn per day it might help too.

The problem is structural, it is not soley about differing opinions. DU needs to decide if it is meant to be an open forum, or a place for party messaging.

[O is 44]

14. I agree with you Cha....

I always enjoy reading your comments. I do not quite understand why others who are very disappointed in this President get mad at those who are not. I happen to like this site because it does allow a range of opinion from very liberal to moderate.

[Cha]

16. Thanks for your support

of our President, too, O. I know he's not perfect and don't expect miracles.. and I'm willing to work along side him in the causes I believe in.

[O is 44]

15. I agree w/you Cha...

I always enjoy reading your comments. I do not quite understand why others who are very disappointed in this President get mad at those who are not. I happen to like this site because it does allow a range of opinion from very liberal to moderate.

[vaberella]

19. It doesn't matter. You seem to agree more than disagree. You apologist.

:sarcasm:

I think we all do that, but it's utterly ignored. Considering we have a greater good mentality on issues and are willing to basically, as I was told I do, compromise away my morals, beliefs and sensibilities. This is what this health care debate as formed.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Sure. Let's call Neville Chamberlain, see if he's available to mediate. nt

[Dinger]

4. Shit, This Was Bad Idea

I should have known better.

[Jennicut]

6. No it wasn't. We are all Dems here. Just different shades in terms of how

far left we are.
I used to be a moderate independent though I voted mostly Democrats. After lurking on DU since 2003 and joining in 2006, I would say I became MORE liberal thanks to DU. Because if someone says something, even if I disagree with it, I try to research it and see what my own conclusions are. I think this board will survive. I doubt anything would be different if it was around in Clinton's time. A lot easier to rail against Repubs then to look critically at a President of your own party.

[JeffR]

27. Not a bad idea by any stretch

but probably not a topic that will arrive at any sort of consensus.

[depakid]

5. As long as you define the terms that way- you're unlikely to find what you're looking for...

[Dinger]

7. I Post Things Like this Sometimes, And I Am Often Embarrassed

Oh well, guess I'll just have to try and forget about it.

[polichick]

8. Don't sweat it - you meant well. :)

[CountAllVotes]

9. been there done that

one too many times. :hug:

[varelse]

10. Not every DU member is a Democrat (nt)

[Go2Peace]

29. or maybe it could be that Democrats have lots of opinions and this is a forum?

[varelse]

30. Of course they do

the fact remains that not all of us are Democrats. I'm not, and I've seen a number of other posters state that they are either independent or members of one of the progressive third parties (usually the Green party but there are others).

We're not all Democrats here.

[Go2Peace]

32. oh, I thought it was another slam post.

[varelse]

35. I can see how it would look that way

I probably should have put more than 5 seconds worth of thought into my post, given the thread topic. :blush:

[rufus dog]

11. I understand what you are trying to say

If you had a Cowboy logo I would call you a Douchebag Dickhead but you are OK!

[Dinger]

17. Cool : )

Same here.:evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

12. Thanks for posting

I think if people would read his actual proposals and think about what it means in the real world - and stop putting Bush motivations on Obama policies - they might discover they actually agree with 95% of what he's doing.

I don't agree with everything he does either. But I wouldn't have agreed with everything Dennis Kucinich or Howard Dean did if they were President. It's not an easy job.

I love how he keeps exposing the Republicans for the whiny obstructionists that they are.

[NYC_SKP]

18. I can back you up, Dinger. Recommended.

Of course just using the names can set some people off.

I know you to be a reasonable person, one who can respect another's point of view.

The two contingents are not monolithic or homogeneous, the divisiveness demonstrated by a few in each group should not reflect on the rest of the members of these groups, the supporters and detractors.

I think that there will always be tension, but I'm not usually feeling it personally.

[Dinger]

20. Thank You

:hug:

[Go2Peace]

28. yep. You tried

[Clio the Leo]

21. It's NEVER the message but the METHOD....

... I dont have a problem with someone disagreeing with something the President does.

But the notion some seem to espouse that he is 1. less intelligent than they are or 2. a puppet leader controlled by a Rahm/Geithner/whomever run administration or 3. a cold hearted politician "just like all of the rest .... is pure foolishness.

[Clio the Leo]

23. Prime example...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=195693&mesg_id=195693

[Cha]

25. plus one

[Bobbie Jo]

33. plus two.

[OhioBlue]

37. bingo.

that was framed in an appalling way imo.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. I find it helpful to accept a few simple things

1) Almost every politician prioritizes their own ambition over everything else. Any politician who ever has a chance at becoming President certainly prioritizes their own ambition over everything else, because the others don't make it that far.

2) Every politician talks about how they prioritize other things over their own ambition. They're full of shit, but they all do it so it's not like I have a choice.

3) We live in a center right country and will continue to live in one so long as working class people vote Republican. The Democratic Party now consists of a lot of people who are upper middle class and thus they are going to represent upper middle class interests to a certain extent. If you want a populist party, you need to convince the people who would benefit from populism to stop voting Republican because of social issues. Until then, the Democratic Party will stay in the center on economic issues because they can win votes in places like Northern Virginia by doing so.

4) Serious cuts in defense spending and changes in foreign policy aren't going to happen until we literally run out of money to pay for it. It's not that Obama doesn't want to change this, it's that it's physically impossible to get elected President and then get re-elected without making a big show of how tough on defense you are. George McGovern tried doing otherwise and got his ass kicked.

Real change doesn't come from politicians, it comes from major shifts in public opinion. I voted for Obama because he's a more competent manager of government than the Republicans, because he's not anti-science, because he would appoint pro-choice judges, and because he would do a better job of representing the country to the world. I got exactly what I voted for.

[Go2Peace]

26. The only problem with that is that you have to add in the power of media manipulation

it distorts and makes it difficut for any "shift" to happen. So I believe it will *only* happen at this point in history when we finally get truly progressive, principled people rising to the top. That *will not* happen by supporting centrist positions. We need a strong progressive leader to rise.

And because this country does not have a system of government that really allows a third party, the only choice is to change one of the parties and not allow them to tow a centrist line. It's either that or let the countries condition get so catistrophic that a third party could actually develop. I prefer the first option.

I think that is one reason why the Democratic Party, which has a LOT of fairly liberal people in it, will continue to have this internal fight. Not because of differing leanings, but because of different understandings of the core strategy that will bring the country around.

[JTFrog]

31. Branch in the face maybe.

As if the point of the OP couldn't have been made without the repeated name-calling, with or without quotes.

I love this quote by Skinner:

"Or, at very least, I didn't think that any DUer would want to deliberately use the same type of language one would expect to hear from tea-baggers and Freepers."

[Rosa Luxemburg]

34. We have to push forward for the people and trample the GOP!

[tekisui]

36. It's hopeless. Some refuse to open their eyes.

They support personality over policy.

They support party over effectiveness.

They chant hope, but are hopeless.

[seeinfweggos]

39. today must have sucked for you, huh?

the president kicking ass like he did.

[tekisui]

40. Not at all.

I am glad to see some ass kicking from the President. It is a little late, and results have yet to be produced. Time will tell, but I don't think he gained that much by welcoming the repukes to the table. It was a sign of weakness, IMO. If he had done this same thing last summer, when health care reform was starting to be debated, it would have been much more effective.

You know, like he said he would. The CSPAN debates on health care. It took a year of failures to get here. Too little too late.

[seeinfweggos]

41. lol. nt

[tekisui]

42. Weak ass sauce.

[seeinfweggos]

43. it's only going to get harder

the rain on your 'too little too late, where's the change?' self-righteous bullshit party, that is.

[tekisui]

44. Oh, I don't see it that way.

Your rah rah party hasn't gotten us much. And, you'll be defending a pile of steaming shit before too long. Have fun.

[seeinfweggos]

45. keep rending those garments. nt

[OhioBlue]

38. why do we have to be split into two groups?

Shouldn't we all be supporters that get to discuss what we like or don't like about certain policy, appointments, speeches, etc? If we could do that in a respectful way, we wouldn't have a problem, imo.