Dean went from wanting to kill the bill to wanting it to pass:

[jenmito]

Monday night on Cowntdown:

DEAN: Let me say—no, I don‘t think the White House is interested in the public option. Let me just say two things about this bill. First of all, I think this is an improvement. I think we ought to get this thing passed but it really does need some form of public option. I personally believe that Medicare expansion to people under 65 is better...

Go to this link and click on Monday's transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32390086/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann

[gateley]

1. It's tough -- at least in passing this we would know what we have and what

we have to work on, if we start all over, we risk going through another drawn out game with the Repubs and Blue Dogs.

I think some people believe if we start all over it'll be on our own, without Obama trying to get bipartisan support, but I'm not confident that's how it would play out.

What do you think?

[Jennicut]

4. It wouldn't happen in an election year.

In fact, it would probably be another Dem President when it would happen again.

[gateley]

7. Agree. nt

[LaydeeBug]

29. Oh, it's *always* an election year.

and when it's not, the goal post is moved. Last year, the meme was, "We need 60" Now that we've lost Ted Kennedy's seat, we only needed fifty + Joe B. all along.

[jenmito]

5. Nobody has ever come closer to passing HCR than Obama and this Congress. There is NO

way we could "start over" and get even NEARLY as far as we've already gotten. They already passed a bill in the House and in the Senate. We will get a bill soon and that will be a great thing for our party.

[gateley]

12. Agree. I'm not willing to lose what we may get by taking an all or nothing

stance (listen to me - I sound like I'll be voting or something). I understand and admire principles, but we have to deal with reality.

[karynnj]

14. I think it would not happen

The Congresspeople and Senators have now worked on this for over a year - often in a very time consuming way. If this fails, I would imagine that few would have the energy needed to start again on this. In addition, it is an election year and we have one less vote. If we "try to go it alone", it would have to be under reconciliation for the entire thing.

Next year, who knows what the Congress would look like.

I also think that the plan Obama suggested is doable using the already passed bill and reconciliation. We have thought we had it before - only to have the rug pulled out from under us - but I think that this will pass. It is too important to Obama for it not to pass. One clue that it could is the RW first arguing hat it is cheating to do it under reconciliation and now arguing it is unfair because the current Congress does not really represent the people because they were elected before the "country changed".

[gateley]

16. Agree -- and good point on not knowing what Congress will look like next year.// nt

[bvar22]

20. Dean ALSO said...

...that if the Democrats do NOT include a Public Option in the final bill, it will lead to a Blood Bath in 2010, and that the Democrats could possibly "lose the majority in The House."

Now, I wonder WHY the OP did NOT include THAT part of the quote in the OP?

[Peacetrain]

2. The link does not work Jen....

Time to pull together and not apart... I hope we can all get on that page

[jenmito]

6. OK-I put another link up which links to Monday's transcript.

Hopefully, that will work. Thanks. :hi:

[Peacetrain]

8. Thanks Jen!!!!

[jenmito]

9. No problem!

[onehandle]

3. Gotta pass something. The GOP is right when they say this will lead to Single Payer.

It's inevitable and it has to start somewhere.

Pass it, dammit.

[tinrobot]

11. Exactly. Every journey begins with a step.

They didn't pass Civil Rights in one fell swoop.

[depakid]

15. How do figure that further entrenching and empowering health insurers will lead to single payer?

From where I sit- this legislation makes it all that much more difficult.

[4lbs]

36. I use the analogy of a 500 mile journey.

The 500th mile is Single Payer.

This bill advances us about 50 miles towards that.

Sure, it would be nice to travel all 500 miles in one fell swoop, however, that isn't going to happen in practical terms.

Well have to get there (the 500th mile Single Payer solution) 50 miles at a time.

[Captain Hilts]

10. I would vote 'for' it also. But I want a public option and we should fight for it. nt

[depakid]

13. Dean's being a good soldier and cheerleader from the sidelines

and as any leader would (particularly one who built the party back up from near irrelevance) is trying to make something out of a thoroughly botched and bungled situation.

At this point, the administration and the corrupted Senate have painted themselves into a corner- either pass crap legislation (since it seems they aren't prepared to significantly improve it) and get beat over the head with it or don't pass anything significant at and get beat over the head even worse.

Choice of evils.

[jenmito]

17. Bull. He was a KillTheBiller. Now he's not. Period.

[depakid]

23. Not how I see it

and not how Dean sees it either, IMO.

Dean- like everyone else who'd being honest with themselves about health policy and the players knows that what's on the table is essentially crap legislation and not what the people wanted or voted in Democrats for.

On the other hand, at this point, passing crap legislation amounts in the short term (i.e. November 2010) to something better than nothing. At least the Dems have something along the lines of insurance reforms to wave around while they're getting beaten over the head with benefits taxes and mandates.

[ProSense]

26. "Dean- like everyone else who'd being honest " So

he's being an honest "good soldier"? What nonsense.

"On the other hand, at this point..."

What point is that: the point where people like Conrad and Weiner are still speaking their minds?

Howard Dean said exactly what he meant to say. He like the bill and wants it to pass, but with a public option.

[depakid]

28. LOL- spin away

I pay attention to what Dean says and means (because he has a long history of getting it right- even at the cost of political ambition).

That he's also a fighter who's unequivocally on our side -who I happen to agree with on most things is of course, also relevant. ;)

[ProSense]

30. "I pay attention to what Dean says and means "

Does Dean support the Afghanistan war?

What are his thoughts on running conservative Dems in conservative districts/states?

Does Dean believe the Bush administration should be investigated for war crimes?

[cascadiance]

18. And that outcome would be JUST what the Rethugs wanted! Are you LISTENING OBAMA!???

I can't believe you are too stupid to realize this. So the question is, what does Obama really want as the outcome? Does he WANT to be a one term president? Does he WANT to lose the majority in the Senate (and maybe the house?)

Does he WANT to be known as a HOOVER or a HARDING and not as an FDR in history?

Obama, you still have time, but the door IS closing soon! And when it closes, the base WILL jump off your wagon. And we WILL find another way through primaries or a new party to get a set of politicians to START doing the people's work for us. And once it becomes a reality, I'm betting a lot of the decent Democrats that don't like to be linked and continually blamed for the corrupt BASTARDS in hiding in our party will jump ship to join such an effort if a new majority can be created.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slipslidingaway]

41. Agreed...

for the better part of the last year Dean has been a great cheerleader for the Obama HC plan.

I've watched numerous interviews where he has stood in support of the the WH from the "sidelines" and helped sell the idea of the PO being just like Medicare.

His constant endorsements helped move support from a national Medicare for All system to the vague idea of a public option.

:(

[bvar22]

19. What did Dean say would happen....

...if there is no Public Option in the Democratic Bill?

[depakid]

24. To paraphrase: use your majority or lose it.

My guess is that Dean underestimated both the extent of corruption and self-destructiveness in the Senate- and the degree of conflict aversion in the administration.

[bvar22]

25. Bingo!

In the same interview Dean said that if the final Democratic Bill did NOT have (at a minimum) a Public Option that took effect BEFORE the elections (2010), the Democratic Party would suffer a blood bath at the polls, and could even lose the Majority.

He said it was absolutely critical that the Democrats do something that takes effect BEFORE the elections. He suggested expanding Medicare to 55.

Now WHY didn't the OP include this in his OP?


I agree with Dr Dean and Harry Truman.

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

[slipslidingaway]

34. Love the picture! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

35. I seem to remember a statement in early 2009 that we would be back in a decade

revisiting the HC issue if the PO did not allow people to access Medicare.

Will try to find a link.

[madfloridian]

21. Video: You are gloating because he is trying not to harm Obama

and his administration.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5729

Gloating seems to be the thing to do.

[Oregone]

27. Schizo -- He's been all over the map on this reform thing

Its hard not to become cynical over it

[slipslidingaway]

37. Sadly I agree, all over the map...

I still remember reading what he said at the AHIP convention last summer and the push for the 12 year data exclusivity clause while being under contract to a firm which represents the Biotech lobby.

:(

[amborin]

39. you mean Obama, right? campaigning on the PO, then dropping it!

[Unvanguard]

31. Good for him. It seems like the "Kill the Bill" rhetoric has calmed down a bit. n/t

[mzmolly]

32. He wanted to kill the bill prior to various

reforms that are now included.

[slipslidingaway]

33. Howard Dean: "The public option is Medicare for God's sakes."

But it's not!!!

http://www.correntewire.com/howard_dean_public_option_medicare_gods_sakes_its_not

[amborin]

38. Obama campaigned on the P.O. and then abandoned it

[Clio the Leo]

40. I finally listened to Howard's appearance on Tom Hartmann the other night...

.... we were too hard on old Howard. He said he wasn't advocating killing the bill ... TOM KEPT SAYING IT ... and I think the message got confused.

But a lot of what Howard did and said in the ensuing days didn't help either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8mzvdj7avU

[zulchzulu]

42. I once ordered the Quesadillo Rojas when I was originally wanting the Veggie Burrito

The mind can change.