Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Seismic changes in the War in Afghanistan

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:33 PM
Original message
Seismic changes in the War in Afghanistan
(On the road - apologize for inability to respond to the thread)

Significant changes in military strategy and tactics instituted by the President and the leader of NATO forces, General McChrystal are generating significant results on the ground in Afghanistan. Reactions from the left in the blogosphere range from 'nothing' has changed despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, to 'it will still end in failure'. Reaction from the right is that current operations are so careful to reduce civilian casualties that they are 'endangering American military forces'.

Reports on the recent offensive and the events that are obviously being coordinated in the Pakistan province of Kunduz are pointing to the most significant blows to the Taliban, its foreign fighters and its command structure, all with a significant reduction in the loss of life. In Pakistan Baradar's capture has led to the arrest of seven significant middle level Taliban commanders, all without any loss of life.

It is ironic that at the exact same time that US forces in Iraq are now at the lowest point since the invasion that situation in Afghanistan is undergoing seismic changes, substantive changes for the better.

When people ask about where Change is evident there can be no better example than significantly reducing casualties not only civilians, but also Taliban, and undertaking the kind of policy changes that will rob the Taliban of popular support in remotre regions of Afghanistan.

Well done Mr. President.





The recent offensive into Helmand Province and the city of Marjah is signalling a completely different approach to NATO/ANA (Afghan National Army) approach to advancing against the Taliban.

These changes were outlined here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart


Here is an update

1) Reducing the use of air power



The basic approach means not using air support, except when no civilian casualties can be guaranteed and to go slower and build more civilian support.

This neocon OP ed contributor in the NYT's is now arguing that the lack of air raids is endangering American troops. What she is actually doing is documenting how far President Obama's chosen commander General McChrystal has gone in taking a radical position in eliminating civilian casualties.




http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/opinion/18dadkhah.html

American and NATO military leaders — worried by Taliban propaganda claiming that air strikes have killed an inordinate number of civilians, and persuaded by “hearts and minds” enthusiasts that the key to winning the war is the Afghan population’s goodwill — have largely relinquished the strategic advantage of American air dominance. Last July, the commander of Western forces, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, issued a directive that air strikes (and long-range artillery fire) be authorized only under “very limited and prescribed conditions.”

So in a modern refashioning of the obvious — that war is harmful to civilian populations — the United States military has begun basing doctrine on the premise that dead civilians are harmful to the conduct of war. The trouble is, no past war has ever supplied compelling proof of that claim.

In Marja, American and Afghan troops have shown great skill in routing the Taliban occupiers. But news reports indicate that our troops under heavy attack have had to wait an hour or more for air support, so that insurgents could be positively identified. “We didn’t come to Marja to destroy it, or to hurt civilians,” a Marine officer told reporters after waiting 90 minutes before the Cobra helicopters he had requested showed up with their Hellfire missiles.
He’s right that the goal is not to kill bystanders or destroy towns, but an overemphasis on civilian protection is now putting American troops on the defensive in what is intended to be a major offensive.



The patient and determined strategy and tactics of NATO/ANA reflect our President's patience and steely determinism.

It is also the only way to assist the Afghan government establish a secular government that has the trust of the people.

2) Killing the Taliban no longer the key operational priority




By the end of the day, the Marines had cleared about a third of the Pork Chop. Although Marine officers spotted more than a dozen suspected insurgents gathering in the morning, they opted not to mount the sort of gun battles they did on the first few days of the operation.

The lack of firefights disappointed some Marines, but the commander of the operation said he was pleased the insurgents did not make a stand.

"For us, just pushing them out of town is enough," said Capt. Ryan Sparks. "Our goal is to take care of the people, not kill the Taliban."




3) Human rights organizations applaud changes in strategy and tactics




Ahmad Nader Nadery, a member of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, said the U.S. military's decision to publicize the operation beforehand, giving residents enough time to leave, has helped minimize the civilian toll. He also credited the move to reduce the reliance on airpower, which was done to protect noncombatants.





4) Local elders support NATO/ANA offensive


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/17/AR2010021704484.html

For another Marja resident, the tribal elder Haji Khalifa Mohammad Shah, the outlook could not be more different. He nurtures hopes that his town will be wrested from the Taliban.



"Fighting is not handing out cookies, it's gunfire and rockets, and there will be casualties," he said. "But we are happy about this operation, and it will secure our area."

The largest joint military operation of the war -- involving about 15,000 U.S., NATO and Afghan troops -- has elicited a broad range of reactions from local Afghans, who are less concerned about daily updates of intersections secured than about whether life might look different when the fighting is done. There is anger and skepticism, but also guarded hope.

"The people of Helmand, the majority of them, welcome these kinds of operations, but what they are worried about is the local government after this operation is over. Who will be the local authority? How will they treat the people?" said Haji Mohammad Anwar Isakzai, a member of parliament from Helmand province.


. . .


"The Taliban have banned people from leaving their houses," said Shah Wali Khan, a tribal elder. Residents say, " 'We want this operation to be finished as soon as possible. We are in trouble. We don't have enough food. We need help,' " he added.

The fighting has killed at least 15 civilians, according to U.S. and Afghan officials. Many consider the number of civilian casualties -- a concern that President Hamid Karzai has raised repeatedly-- as relatively low, given the scope of the offensive.





5) Marjah now in control of the Afghan government and they are begining to establish government services.




http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/766629--troops-mop-up-in-marja

The entry of Marines and Afghan soldiers into the area surrounding the municipal centre is expected to begin the complicated but essential process of establishing government authority in the area and delivering basic services to the population, a key goal of the military operation.

With the centre now out of Taliban hands, Marine commanders plan to bring in about 80 Afghan paramilitary police Wednesday. About 400 such officers will patrol parts of Marja that have been cleared until a local police force can be recruited and trained.

The establishment of government services and the development of effective local security forces will be a key test of U.S. President Barack Obama's new strategy for stabilizing Afghanistan.


6) New Governor comes outside of the corrupted pool of candidates;




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100218/ap_on_re_as/as_afghan_taliban

But Afghanistan's government remains corrupt and dysfunctional. And in some places, such as Marja, in Helmand province, it is nonexistent. There isn't even a municipal building – just a foundation on which residents set up a weekly market.

To address that, a team U.S. and British diplomats and reconstruction personnel plan to set up a stabilization office in Marja in the coming days. A top priority will be to bring in the newly appointed district governor, Haji Zahir, who recently returned to Afghanistan after spending the past 15 years in Germany, and help him begin the complex task of building a government from scratch.





7) Pakistan cooperation continues at a new and high level



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100218/ap_on_re_as/as_afghan_taliban

KABUL – Pakistani authorities, aided by U.S. intelligence, have apprehended more Afghan Taliban chiefs following the capture of the movement's No. 2 figure — arrests that together represent the biggest blow to the insurgents since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001.

The arrests of more than a dozen Taliban leaders, including known associates of Osama bin Laden, came as militants fought to keep a grip on their southern stronghold of Marjah. Hundreds of militants were holding out against a six-day-old assault by 15,000 U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.

Nine Taliban militants linked to al-Qaida were nabbed in three raids late Wednesday and early Thursday near the port city of Karachi, Pakistani intelligence officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they weren't supposed to release the information.

Two Taliban shadow governors also were apprehended in separate raids, Afghan and Pakistani officials said without giving specifics.

The arrests follow the capture in Karachi of Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, second only to the Taliban's one-eyed leader, Mullah Mohammad Omar. The White House and the Pakistani army have confirmed Baradar's arrest but have released few details, including when and how he was apprehended.

(as expected Baradar has been talking)


Pakistani intelligence officials said Baradar was traveling by car on the outskirts of Karachi when agents intercepted his vehicle, arresting him along with three bodyguards. One intelligence official said Baradar has provided "useful" information that led to the arrests of other militants.





List of senior operatives arrested



Among those arrested were Ameer Muawiya, a bin Laden associate who was in charge of foreign al-Qaida militants in Pakistan's border areas , and Akhunzada Popalzai, also known as Mohammad Younis, a one-time Taliban shadow governor in Zabul province and former police chief in Kabul, according to Mullah Mamamood, a tribal leader in Ghazni province.

Others captured in Karachi included Hamza, a former Afghan army commander in Helmand province during Taliban rule, and Abu Riyad al Zarqawi, a liaison with Chechen and Tajik militants in Pakistan's border area, Pakistani officials said.

Taliban shadow governors — Mullah Abdul Salam of Kunduz province and Mullah Mohammad in Baghlan province — were arrested separately in Pakistan about 10 to 12 days ago, according to the Kunduz governor, Mohammad Omar.

The two shadow governors were instrumental in expanding Taliban influence in the north, raising fears the insurgency was spreading beyond its base in the south. Salam was arrested in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad. One of the officials said Salam's arrest was the result of information gleaned from Mullah Baradar.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well sheee-it, I guess all those dead people were worth it then.
Sorry, still don't give a rats ass. Hurry up and declare victory and get the fuck out, I'm tired of my taxes going to feed the war pigs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Amen. We've killed enough innocents to not ever win their hearts and minds ...
the natives are hoping also that they won't have to continue to "ENDURE our FREEDOM" in THEIR NATION much longer.

Declare "Victory" and bring our troops home NOW!

BTW, the public is being LIED TO.

This year, 30,000 additional American troops will be deployed to Afghanistan despite the fact that the U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan expressly opposed troop escalation in two strongly worded cables sent to the White House in 2009.

The White House ignored his warnings and sent troops anyway.

As the House Armed Services Committee begins to write the Defense Departments budget for 2011, we urge its members to read Eikenberrys memos. HASC members should write strong language into the 2011 Defense budget that requires the Pentagon to begin withdrawing our troops by July 2011.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-VG0eQOUyI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/17/group_nato_forces_blocking_wounded_afghan

Group: NATO Forces Blocking Movement of Wounded Afghan Civilians
The US is coming under increasing criticism over the rise in civilian casualties during the assault on the Afghan city of Marjah, one of the largest military offensives of the eight-year war. At least nineteen civilians have been killed so far, including six children who died when a missile struck their house on the outskirts of the city. We speak with Matteo dell’Aira, medical coordinator of the Emergency Lashkar Gah hospital.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. "Whose" nation are you referring to?
Do you think Afghans living unwillingly under Taliban occupation are in "their" nation? Without having to "endure our freedom", they only have to endure the Taliban.

That line of logic is so damn bogus it makes no actual sense. The French had to "endure our freedom" during the liberation of their country in WW2, and many innocent French civilians died as a result. I guess, using that logic, we shouldn't have been in THEIR NATION at all! There are many criticisms one can make about the war in Afghanistan, but that one holds no weight and rather hurts your argument.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Thank you for giving me hope.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R!
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent work, shorty. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you for all the research and updates on the
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 12:39 AM by Cha
terrorists who have been caught with this new Admin and the military who are serious about wrapping this up, asap.

This is important for the whole Planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I know the planet couldn't use that money to ameliorate Climate Change
I concur that catching "terrorists" is good messaging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. Another kick for the
ignoramuses who think THIS President is pursuing the same shitty practices as the Cheney presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. You mean War or Strategy and Tactics?
I think you successfully misrepresented the position of "ignoramuses." :thumbsup:

Dirty F@#*ing Hippies.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. re: Dirty Fucking Hippies:
Yes, Yes I am.

We'll actually END this shithead conflict here pretty soon.......

As opposed to the promise of ENDLESS war under the Cheney Admin.

Notice how the Iraq debacle is winding down, the ignoramuses don't seem to comment on that except to say that it STILL ain't enough.

We broke it, it's getting fixed, in spite of some of our best efforts.


Afghanistan will be a shithole when we leave.

But there could be some kind of government there instead of a fundamentalist execution-based society.

We broke that country, too, even further than the 12th century mindset and infrastructure it had when we showed up ....I believe that out of all the absolutely craptastic choices passed to the Prez there, the one he is pursuing is going to yeild the fastest resolution.

But, to each their own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. If only it weren't disinformation, this "winding down"
Obama Has 250,000 "Contractors" in Iraq and Afghan Wars, Increases Number of Mercenaries

According to new statistics released by the Pentagon, with Barack Obama as commander in chief, there has been a 23% increase in the number of “Private Security Contractors” working for the Department of Defense in Iraq in the second quarter of 2009 and a 29% increase in Afghanistan, which “correlates to the build up of forces” in the country. In Iraq, the Pentagon attributes the increase to better accounting. But, these numbers relate explicitly to DoD security contractors. Companies like Blackwater and its successor Triple Canopy work on State Department contracts and it is unclear if these contractors are included in the over-all statistics. This means, the number of individual “security” contractors could be quite higher, as could the scope of their expansion.

Overall, contractors (armed and unarmed) now make up approximately 50% of the “total force in Centcom AOR .” This means there are a whopping 242,657 contractors working on these two US wars. These statistics come from two reports just released by Gary J. Motsek, the Assistant Deputy Under Secretary of Defense (Program Support): “Contractor Support of U.S. Operations in USCENTCOM AOR, IRAQ, and Afghanistan and “Operational Contract Support, ‘State of the Union.’”

“We expect similar dependence on contractors in future contingency operations,” according to the contractor “State of the Union.” It notes that the deployment size of both military personnel and DoD civilians are “fixed by law,” but points out that the number of contractors is “size unfixed,” meaning there is virtually no limit (other than funds) to the number of contractors that can be deployed in the war zone.

http://rebelreports.com/post/116277092/obama-has-250-000-contractors-in-iraq-and-afghan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. "could be some kind of government" - Isn't that how Russia got mired down there?
I have heard there are heaps of misconceptions surrounding Russia's involvement there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you for providing information instead of
stale sound bytes and the same repetitive schpill which denies the reality of the world we live in.
I certainly respect not cheering war, and that is nothing that any of us should do....
but staying informed instead of assuming is always best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Yes, good op for informing DU'ers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Waste of time, lives and money
Spending $trillion+ on wars and military while running up the debt shows really bad judgment by Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. +1
Think of it as a reverse investment in Too Big To Fail average Americans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. +1
But fewer and look we get to show average Americans Dems can do War.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. +2 - you about sum it up (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. what a steaming pile of HORSESHIT.
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kick NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hmmm...the Left is po'ed and the Right is po'ed...
sounds like good policy to me...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. KIcketty. Kick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent post. I wanted peace not smarter war though. Very satisfying it must be
for warmongers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Forgive me for never again believing anything about any fucking war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. I find your analysis on number 3 troubling.
Saying that "yes, it's great that they are giving us time to leave before conducting air strikes" is different from "applauding."

#7 is encouraging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. 72 virgins?
Publicly announcing your intentions prior to launching an operation presents allows non-combatants and combatants alike time to leave. If the Taliban expects to be outnumbered and outgunned, I would expect them to withdraw most of their forces. I don't think most of them want to be martyrs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Very well researched & documented post!
2 back slaps!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. The reduction in civilian casualties is very encouraging.
I hope the general picture you are painting is accurate. I don't pretend to be able to predict success or failure in Afhanistan, but it is hard for me to believe that there aren't better investments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kick for the sheer positive
changes that are going on in Afghanistan to actually help the safety of our Planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. KIck for the wordiest good news I've seen in a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
30. Wow. Ms. Dadkhah's got some interesting positions there.
>"largely relinquished the strategic advantage of American air dominance."

... thereby allowing the Taliban Air Force to take to the skies!



>"So in a modern refashioning of the obvious — that war is harmful to civilian populations — the United States military has begun basing doctrine on the premise that dead civilians are harmful to the conduct of war."

Wow. Can their BE a better way to say "We shouldn't give a shit about civilians"?



>"an overemphasis on civilian protection is now putting American troops on the defensive in what is intended to be a major offensive."

Really? Troops on the offense should not expect to get shot at and take cover? :eyes: I didn't realize war was played by taking turns, like football.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. Interesting read, grantcart. Thanks for putting this together for us...
I'm kind of sorry I read most of the replies, though -- kind of leaves a bitter aftertaste.

Hekate

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thanks for the article...
I too am sorry to have to wade through so many brain-dead responses in this thread. From the level of cynicism and knee-jerkiness and the lack of any kind of reasoning from some on here, you'd think this was a teabagger forum sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
36. American young people are dying there WHY, again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC