I know I'm in crisis when I decide not to listen to the SOTU tomorrow.

[Raven]

I never thought I'd be feeling this way about Obama but I can't bring myself to watch or listen to the speech. I know it's because I don't want to be disappointed anymore. And...I don't want to watch the Democrats' empty cheering or worry about some asshole Republican heckling him. The last SOTU I passed up was given by George W. Bush....

[MuseRider]

1. You won't be alone.

I was not planning on watching it, same reasons. We got Opera tickets. Much more to my liking than listening to pretty words with nothing but "elect me" behind them.

[secondwind]

2. I support the President, and I plan to watch every minute. n/t

[theophilus]

3. I still support the President but I don't think I will watch, either. I will be eager

to read about it here on DU. I have come to the conclusion that ANY person elected President now has an overwhelming job to buck the MIC and Corporogreedocrats. I think it is much worse than we can imagine. I believe Mr. Obama had very good intentions but they have butted up against reality. I hope I am wrong but I can't stand to watch.

[noamnety]

4. I'll be passing on it.

I am old enough that I'm over the theatrics of political speeches.

I'd rather skim the transcripts afterwards for actual content, and even that I'll take with a grain of salt.

[KoKo]

5. Many of us probably don't have the stomach for it. It will be dissected and on You Tube

so it's not a big deal to skip the drama and go back later to pick up the tidbits after the parsing. At least that's what I'm going to do. So much bad stuff...don't need to feel sad or hopeful. Rather just wait and let the Talking Heads on both sides parse it out and tell me what to think about it. In the end...the media wins over what your or I think, anyway...and that goes for both the left and right pundits.

Sometimes it's good to trust one's gut, though...as long as you can refuse to watch or read anything either before or after his speech. Then you are TRULY PURE! :D

[CreekDog]

6. You're not alone

Knowing what is coming on the spending freeze, and with little hope on health care...I'd just as soon read what he says later.

To look him in the eyes and feel let down is more than I really want to deal with right now.

This is all such a small-minded and ordinary approach. I thought we elected someone vastly more intelligent than his recent maneuvering.

:(

[FrenchieCat]

7. Don't watch. You have that right.

You can also live your life under the bed.
It's a free country (kinda).

As an African-American, a Democrat, a Citizen, and a wife and mother, and one day a grandmother,
I will be watching the historic First official SOTU of the First African-American President.
After all, I'll want to tell my grandchildren one day, how America turned the corner at some
point, and felt confident enough in electing a Black Man (although it wasn't easy)
....although sure, they didn't truly allow him to govern at first, without second guessing him at every turn,
cause after a dumbass like George Bush in office, many Americans mistakenly thought they were
smarter than this new President as well (which of course, most weren't).

I'll let them know that in the end, although he was forced to earn the respect that all other
Presidents had been given while in office (at least through the first year),
he did eventually earn it.....and that's why in 2030, 20 years later,
President Obama is known as one of the best President we ever had,
and he was certainly the best President for the times,
considering the Economic fiasco that nearly turned us into a 3rd world country,
and the two wars, that had been raging on for nearly a decade by the time he got there,
along with a giant growing deficit, and a divided country in where Republicans as well as some
Democrats prayed that he would fail each and every day.

Yes, I'll let them know that initially a lot of people didn't like him
....not for what he had done as much as for what he hadn't done (especially early on) (although
previous President were only disliked for what they actually did, and some like Bubba could do just about anything, and still get respect from his party).

I'll let them know that back then, Black folks, no matter their station in life, always had to try twice as hard and be twice as good before gaining the respect and the confidence that others were routinely handed. They had to literally prove that they were worthy, and were deemed unworthy till then.

And yes, I don't care if folks think I shouldn't have gone there......because that is exactly what I will tell my beautiful future mixed race grandchildren! Because that is the truth from a Black Person's view! It saddens me, but just like my ancestors did for hundreds of years, we'll just keep on keeping on...cause that is the only way a nation can progress. :patriot:

[Raven]

9. Obama's race has nothing to do with my decision...I don't think

about that when I think about him.

[slipslidingaway]

12. + a trillion :) neither do I. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

14. Good for you.

Cause since he also didn't start any wars (in fact he's trying to end them), didn't bankrupt the country, wasn't his idea to do giant bail outs, didn't appoint any RW Supreme Court Justices, wasn't the one that made China our debtor, didn't get us attacked, didn't make the world hate us (in fact he won a nobel Peace Prize), didn't really do anything that should actually make someone so despise him to the point of one not even wanting to look at his face or hear is words during an historic occasion,

I'm sure that your reasons are perfectly valid and rational to you...
that's why that's good for you.

[Carolina]

39. yeah whatever

end wars were his campaign words kinda like Nixon's 1968 promise that he had a secert plan to get us out of Vietnam. August 1974 (another election plus two years) we were still there, though Nixon was gone! Yet Obama in a very cynical Bushian move goes to West Point -- to a captive audience of youth in military uniform -- to announce his 2nd troop surge in Afghanistan. We'll see what happens in 2, 4, 6, 8 years. Menawhile more lives, more money, more waste. There's a reason Afghanistan is called the empire breaker!

Oh,

[FrenchieCat]

44. Hey.....you can believe what you want.....

Poor West Point Cadets, like they didn't sign up to go to that school specifically with two wars raging. :eyes:

Meanwhile, I'll continue to support Barack OBama, who is not even remotely close to Bush, is doing exactly what he promised that he would do in Afghanistan, and will be remembered as a great President. :patriot:

I'm sure those totally squeaky clean Perfect dead presidents thank you for all of your support. :patriot:

[Carolina]

51. those real Democrats, those dead presidents

integrated the military, gave us the GI bill which helped everyone including Blacks, gave us Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Social Security, Medicare, Head Start... I never said they were squeaky clean or perfect but they left a real lasting legacy of progress which Obama's blue dog coddling, Wall Street derived and friendly administration is helping undermine.

And yes, I thank FDR for the GI bill that helped my father, Harry Truman for integrating the Army, JFK and LBJ for my civil and voting rights, FDR for my Dad's Social Security and LBJ for my Dad's Medicare.

I don't see what I'll be able to thank Obama for, and you can say he is not even remotely close to Bush but HIS POLICIES SURE ARE!

[FrenchieCat]

53. Did they do it in the first 12 fucking months?

Hell da fuck no.

You go ahead and hang your dirty laundry,
and we can just put each other on ignore.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carolina]

65. Read downthread or better still, I'll repeat what I said here

I never expected Obama to get things done in his first year. However, I (and many others) did not expect Hooveresque policies, a laissez-faire (indeed back peddling)attitude about shaping health care reform, a deaf ear to the pain of Main Street, an administration of Wall Street insiders/DLCers like Geithner, Summers and Rahm who have been wrong for a long time, and the continuation of the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan that sap the treasury, the national spirit and most importantly HUMAN LIVES!

I didn't expect 'Mr. Hope, Change and Yes, We Can' to devolve into the figurehead of a no we can't status quo or into a typical pol who says one thing on the campaign trail ("I'll fight for you") but whose actions fight for Wall Street and big banks....

So, you can hurl expletives and dirty laundry all you want but can you face the truth!

[jeanpalmer]

62. He esacalated the war

pissing away hundreds of $billions that we could use to create jobs, to help out people who are living in tents, to create alternative energy so we're not dependent on ME. So that's all I need to know about him. I can't figure out where his conscience is that should tell him these things

[Carolina]

67. Thank You!

Waste, waste, waste

I love how Keith just played excerpts of Obama's debate with McCain in which he talked about the money spent in Iraq that could be spent here and also how an across the board spending freeze was using a hatchet where a scalpel was needed...

Just words!

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

24. I know very well who Obama is,

and you don't really know me.

And I didn't imply, I simply gave my opinion.
You don't have to like it....certainly,
just like I don't like the opinion of many on this board.

[Carolina]

35. agree, reminds me of some of my brethren

who were blinded by ClarenceThomas back in 1991!

[babylonsister]

30. Oops, misplaced. nt

[GeorgeGist]

131. His broken supporters play the wild card ...

when they have nothing in their head.

[Carolina]

16. well this totally disappointed Black woman will tune him out

He has proven to be an empty suit who does what his corporate/military masters tell him. As some of my Black relatives and friends always suspected: this country would NEVER elect a STRONG BLACK MAN!

And as for being smart? I wonder. Has he studied history, really? Then look at real Democrats like FDR, Harry Truman, JFK and LBJ. Study what FDR did and especially LBJ whose domestic policies would have been even greater were it not for another wasteful war (hint, hint BHO!) and his fear of being the first president to lose a war.

BTW, how ya think the Black community is gonna fare with domestic spending cuts?! Guess we better get ready to send more of those military recruiters into Black neighborhoods. Join up, be all you can be -- ha, ha. More cannon fodder for more useless wars that enrich the MIC.

MLK, Medger Evers, Thurgood Marshall are spinning in their graves.

[FrenchieCat]

19. A mind is a terrible thing to waste......

There are not cuts.....A freeze is not a cut.
But as smart as you must be, what with your deep admiration
for "real" Democratic President of the past, and your selective memory of the past,
I'm sure you already knew that.

You also knew that Obama increased the 2010 Budget(his first budget) by 8% over Bush's 2009 Budget...and that the 2011 budget which is due in February will indeed be frozen at the 2010 levels that Obama had increased by so much; a budget that progressive economists raved about.

Here is the 2010 budget (Obama's first budget that came out in February of last year).......by department (the total would be frozen for 3 years, not each department)


The + or - sign next to each department is how much
the Budget for that department grew or shrank
going from Bush to Obama.

Now, tell me, do you notice anything?


$78.7 billion (-1.7%) - Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) - Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) - Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) - Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) - Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) - Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) - Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (-0.4%) - Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) - Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (-6.3%) - Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) - Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) - Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) - Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) - Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) - Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) - Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) - National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (-3.8%) - Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%) - National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) - Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) - Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (-14.3%) - General Services Administration
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) - Other Agencies
$105 billion - Other
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget


And as for these "real" Democrats you named like FDR, Harry Truman, JFK and LBJ.....
They all started or oversaw wars, recessions and/or depressions of some kind (FDR didn't cure it in 12 months either), dropped Atom bombs, interred good Americans into camps simply because of their ancestry, and sent thousands to their death in Vietnam, and in the case of JFK, didn't get Civil rights accomplished in his first year, nor his second, nor this third. Nor did any of them have a fucked up corporate media and a breathless group of Internet critics discussing his every step. In otherwords, they were not perfect either, which is ironic that you would expect this one to have done it all after 12 months. In addition, they each had larger majorities in the congress than Barack Obama has today. Self hatred much?

As for your opinion, according to polls, many more African Americans agree with mine,
than with yours. And as those Great Black People that came before him,
their relatives that are still living are not saying that somehow their father/uncle/brother would be spinning in their graves, by far, they are like me very proud of this man.....
and I am more than confident that history will be on my side. Thank you.

[HopeOverFear]

22. don't bother boring her with facts, Frenchie.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Not a AAIG poster that I'm familiar with, that's for sure!

:shrug:

[spoony]

119. Don't you have to have a star to post in groups?

Let's all take a breath and think before hurling passive aggressive suspicions.

[Carolina]

32. facts are:

People are unemployed and hurting but Wall Street and Big Banks get a helping hand
School budgets are cut and some schools are closing
Public services are cut
Small businesses are going under everyday
Lives and huge portions of the treasury continue to be wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan
Costs for everything are rising

Where's the hope and REAL CHANGE?

[FrenchieCat]

37. Facts are,

you didn't elect the magic negro.

Just like FDR, JFK, LBJ and Truman weren't magic either.

[Carolina]

28. I didn't expect Obama to get things done in his first year

however, I (and many others) did not expect Hooveresque policies, a laissez-faire (indeed back peddling)attitude about shaping the health care reform, a deaf ear to the pain of Main Street, an administration of insiders like Geithner, Summers and Rahm who have been wrong for a long time, and the continuation of the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan that sap the treasury, the national spirit and most importantly HUMAN LIVES!

I didn't expect 'Mr. Hope, Change and Yes, We Can' to devolve into the figurehead of a no we can't status quo or into a typical pol who says one thing on the campaign trail ("I'll fight for you") but whose actions fight for Wall Street and big banks. I suggest you read Brother Bob Herbert's article Obama's Credibility Gap http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/26-1

And we'll see about history because, actually, I would LOVE to be proven wrong. But right now I simply can't listen to flowery words knowing that they mean shit when it comes to action.

BTW, your budget figures look good on the surface but the truth is we still have record unemployment and where I live schools and assorted public services are taking deep hits that have long term consequences. And for the luckily employed, pay checks are going down, benefits are being cut or their costs increased while ALL expenses are rising.

[FrenchieCat]

34. Brother Herbert is nice and comfy.......

and apparently makes a living critiquing politics, I'll give him that. But he'll be watching the SOTU, and hence the difference. I'm not saying Obama is perfect; I'm saying he hasn't earned the scorn that he's received, period.

As for the budget figures, we will be record falling revenues in 2010......


At the end of the day, I suggest you keep on Admiring at the altar of those "real" Democrats you so fondly spoke of....
Those who interred Japanese Americans, who signed social security which by design specifically descriminated against people of color, dropped atom bombs, and sent thousands to die to fight more yellow folks. You go right ahead, with your bad self. You're one of the 4 percenters, so feel good and righteous.

[Carolina]

41. those real Democrats

integrated the military, gave us the GI bill which helped everyone including Blacks, gave us Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Social Security, Medicare, Head Start... I never said they were perfect but they left a lasting legacy which Obama's blue dog coddling, Wall Street derived and friendly administration is helping undermine.

[Cha]

47. While you're ignoring all the positive things that

President Obama has accomplished and only talking about what is negatively perceived..you're on the wrong side of history.

[Carolina]

55. history is being made constantly

so you cannot truly opine whether I'm on the wrong side yet since the outcome of Obama's policies and presidency is still uncertain. Or maybe you're psychic.

In another post, I said, I hope I'm proven wrong. But for now I cannot stomach listening to more flowery words that mean nothing and that ring hollow when juxtaposed to Obama's actions.

[Cha]

57. I think you're on the wrong side when you call him an empty

suit..it shows you're not even paying attention. That's just wrong.

[Carolina]

59. we'll see

so far he's doing the bidding of the corporate masters...

[Cha]

61. No he's not..you're wrong again.

[Carolina]

64. we'll see

and you can say I'm wrong til you're blue in the face, but you're not the final arbiter of history and right now I'm in good company on this board and elsewhere in feeling Obama has lost his way, reneged on campaign promises, and generally proven to be a major disappointment

[Cha]

71. I don't have to see..I've been paying attention. I know.

[firedupdem]

80. Well you go right ahead and call the president an 'empty suit' and

and imply that he's not smart and not strong. That will surely make you lots of friends on this board and others. Just remember the 'good company' you keep on this board, and those that will surely come along and pat you on the back for your posts this evening, have never supported this president. They didn't before the election, and they will never say one positive thing about him. I would think that would give you pause, or make you wonder why that is happening...after all this is supposedly a Democratic board and this president has certainly not done one thing he didn't tell us he would.

[saracat]

70. Absolutely right on Carolina! thank you.You speak for me.

[emilyg]

106. And for me.

[inna]

81. +1,000

:applause:

:yourock:

Thank you, Carolina! :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

45. "An empty suit"...too bad you got sucked in by

the negativity and you don't even know what's going on. That's just sad.

[Number23]

95. Carolina, if I were you, I'd look real long and REAL hard at the folks applauding your post

I'm not even saying I agree or disagree with what you've written. I'm just saying that you should take a good look at the folks giving you the thumbs up on this.

'Cause for sure, they are not the kind of company that most black people, disappointed or otherwise, would like to have.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quiet.american]

125. Dupe. Wrong place. nt

[quiet.american]

126. You must be kidding.

If your post is not pure satire, then it's absolute drivel.

Taking just one of the things you put forth:

**"BTW, how ya think the Black community is gonna fare with domestic spending cuts?!"**

BTW, here's how "we" in New York benefit from the president's 2010 budget, which passed Congress in April, 2009:

Tax cuts for 7 million families.
$2.3 billion for schools, students, and teachers.
$7.9 billion in new funding for Pell Grants to help families pay for college.
A pay raise for the 56,300 men and women in New York serving in our Armed Forces.

Nationwide, here's just one way "we" benefit nationwide, currently in the 2010 passed budget:

Dept. of Housing and Urban Development:

Provides full funding for the Community Development Block Grant program at $4.5 billion. In addition, the Budget reforms the program’s formula to better target economically distressed communities. The program will also stimulate innovations in metropolitan sustainability, university partnerships, and rural housing and economic development.

Provides $1 billion to capitalize and launch an Affordable Housing Trust Fund that will develop, rehabilitate, and preserve affordable housing targeted to very-low income households. The Fund will help to prevent homelessness and strengthen families.

Increases funding for the Housing Choice Voucher program, which likewise makes housing
affordable to very low-income households. The Department of Housing and Urban Development
will also introduce legislative reforms to address the program’s costly inefficiencies.

Enables the Department to preserve approximately 1.3 million affordable rental units through increased funding for the Department’s assisted multifamily properties. Combats mortgage fraud and predatory loans.

You ask about Obama's reading habits, but have not yourself even bothered to read the budget and it's summaries which are posted at omb.gov?

It's hard to believe yours is actually a serious post.

[tavalon]

33. Way to call us racists,

but that dog don't hunt. I am very, very angry at President Obama's actions and it wouldn't matter if he were white, yellow, green or purple, I would still be angry. The old white man with the crazy dumb fluff of a white woman for a running mate was far, far worse, but the one I chose, the one I canvassed for and sent tons of money to, is not doing a good job. He's doing a Bill Clinton job and that's not nearly good enough.

[FrenchieCat]

36. I'm not calling you anything personally, but yes, this country is still very racist......

sorry to have to break it to you, if you didn't know.

[tavalon]

40. No, I know

I lived most of my life in the South and thought I had moved away from it by moving to Seattle and yet, it's more subtle here. I hate racism. I also hate having people try to censor me using the racist card. I chose Barack Obama, not based on his color but upon his fiery rhetoric. I'm fairly sure, because I'm white, I didn't see his election as being as historic as black people did. It certainly was way, way past time to elect a man or woman of color but I wouldn't have voted for Condaleeza Rice nor Michael Steele, because the first is evil and the second is dumb and they are both Republicans and that counts them out right there. President Obama is one of the smartest humans I have ever laid eyes on. His wife is just as smart and those children of his will lead the world one day, but he appears to have sold that magnificent brain to Washington Beltway, Inc., and I'm not happy about that.

I may, or may not watch the SOTU. I'm not sure yet. His voice doesn't make me cringe like Bush's did but I feel sad when I hear the President's words and then look at the actions. They don't match.

[FrenchieCat]

49. He's got 75% of his alloted time to go.

[tavalon]

52. I'll repeat,

he's the smartest human I've ever laid eyes on. How long did it take FDR to implement his New Deal?

[FrenchieCat]

60. Do you know how many Democrats he had in congress?

The New Deal was the name that United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt gave to his complex package of economic programs he initiated between 1933 and 1936 with the goals of what historians call the 3 Rs, of giving Relief to the unemployed and badly hurt farmers, Reform of business and financial practices, and promoting Recovery of the economy during the Great Depression.

The Great Depression had devastated the nation. As Roosevelt took the oath of office at noon on March 4, 1933, the state governors had closed every bank in the nation; no one could cash a check or get at their savings.<23> The unemployment rate was 25% and higher in major industrial and mining centers. Farm income had fallen by over 50% since 1929. 844,000 nonfarm mortgages had been foreclosed, 1930-33, out of five million in all.<24>

Historians distinguish a "First New Deal" (1933) and a "Second New Deal" (1934-36). Some programs were declared unconstitutional, and others were repealed during World War II; in early 1937 almost no new programs were initiated because of the opposition of the new Conservative Coalition.<25>

The "First New Deal" (March 8, 1933) dealt with groups; from banking and railroads to industry and farming.

A "Second New Deal" in 1934-35 included the Wagner Act to promote labor unions, the Works Progress Administration (WPA) relief program, the Social Security Act, and new programs to aid tenant farmers and migrant workers. The Supreme Court ruled several programs unconstitutional; however, most were soon replaced, with the exception of the National Recovery Administration (NRA). After 1936, the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 was the only major legislation; it set maximum hours and minimum wages for most categories of workers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal


Many leading New Dealers, including Eleanor Roosevelt, Harold Ickes, Aubrey Williams, and John Flores Sr. worked to ensure blacks received at least 10% of welfare assistance payments.<45> There was no attempt whatsoever to end segregation, or to increase black rights in the South.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal#African_Americans

[inna]

85. buh-bye New Deal, hello Raw Deal.

not cool, to say the least.

[tavalon]

91. Mea Culpa

My history wasn't that good. I thought of the whole package as the New Deal. Based on what you posted, our President still has time to be his best. I had hoped that he would be one of our best Presidents ever and have of recent, felt that all we would get was another President Clinton, who was definitely not as good as he could have and should have been.

[inna]

84. I'm no Clintonite (to say the least), but.... Clinton might be remembered as

one of the great presidents, compared to Obama.

[TankLV]

88. so far x 10...

but as many other posters have said - it's only his first MISERABLE year...

his remaining three have GOT to be better...

[tavalon]

92. Actually, I don't see them as all that different

Obama can be so much better than he has been.

[freddie mertz]

116. So, to make a very long story short: Anyone who criticizes Obama is a racist.

Honestly, that is the major thrust of your post.

They truly didn't allow him to govern at first"...WTF does this mean?

Who are "they" anyway?

The pubs?

The right wing Dems?

The lefties you love to hate?

All of them?

Weird post, FC.

[dave29]

8. I would recommend watching.

n/t

[JVS]

10. Go do something fun instead.

[greenbird]

11. I'll watch.

How else can I form my own opinions and make my own judgments? Read what someone else says about his speech? I don't think so.

[Cha]

13. Good..

I'm sick of all the whining and handwringing around here.

We'll carry on without you.

[slipslidingaway]

15. Democrats do not need the votes from independents - got it! n/t

[Cha]

17. Whining and handwringing works..bullshit.

[slipslidingaway]

20. Not being conned works well too - Enough is Enough said Candidate Obama...

while President Obama went ahead and made a behind the scenes deals with a lobbyist to do the exact opposite from what he said during the campaign.

Good luck to those who are still buying the words and not paying attention to the actions.

:evilgrin:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420430&mesg_id=420457

Candidate Obama vs. President Obama

"And we are tired of watching as year after year, candidates offer up detailed health care plans with great fanfare and promise only to see them crushed under the weight of Washington politics and drug and insurance lobbying once the campaign is over.

That is not who we are, that is not who we have to be, enough is enough, it time for us to change."

This part is from the 4:55 mark so the detailed plan by the candidate that could save up to 300 billion was replaced by a deal with the lobbyist Tauzin for 80 billion. The study referenced in the Obama plan may or may not account for the increased enrollment by the baby boomers, 46 million to 79 million over the next twenty years.

Tauzin got a good deal IMO, Medicare and seniors not so much.


From the Obama/Biden HC plan ----

"...Barack Obama and Joe Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which could be as high as $30 billion (per year),33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality."


Obama's $80 Billion Deal with Pharma Is a Very Bad Deal for Us
By William Greider

[Cha]

23. You're conning yourselves and then whining about it. boo fuckinghoo

[slipslidingaway]

27. Words vs. actions n/t

[Cha]

48. Plenty of Action.

[slipslidingaway]

54. With the lobbyist Billy Tauzin, what happened to the candidate who once...

used Billy in a campaign ad...I want to put an end to the game playing. Then he went to DC and did just the opposite.

Obama: Billy - campaign ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCRO0g9CfAw


Plenty of action ... in this instance for Medicare NOT to negotiate drug prices.

Reminds me of this exchange...

Kucinich to Neel Kashkari...Who are you working for?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evpFtFfPWP8

[Jamastiene]

96. Actions speak louder than words.

Well stated.

[slipslidingaway]

101. Yes, so much for taking on Pharma and the waste in entitlement programs...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/09/flashback-obama-promises_n_254833.html

"From December 13, 2007:

SEN. OBAMA: But one thing I have to say, we are not going to make some of these changes unless we change how business is done in Washington. The reason that we can't negotiate prescription drugs under the Medicare prescription drug plan is because the drug companies specifically sought and obtained a provision in that bill that prevented us from doing it.

MS. WASHBURN: Thank you.

SEN. OBAMA: And unless we change that politics, we're going to continue to see the waste that we're seeing in the entitlement programs..."


Note - entitlement programs would not have been choice of words.

Thanks

:)

[spoony]

121. If you're sick of whining

why do you and your friends do so goddamn much of it?

[HopeOverFear]

18. Thank you for helping me to change my mind.

I WILL watch it tomorrow. I just realized I don't want to act like a scared, petulant child.

[spoony]

120. Stay classy, boggers. nt

[JoePhilly]

25. Well ... you gave him an entire year ... what else could you do.

[tavalon]

29. Will Pitt's mom is saying this!

We are in a world of hurt. Yeah, I got a letter from David Plouffe asking me to host a SOTU party. I didn't use any bad words but I effectively told him to go fuck himself.

[babylonsister]

31. Your decision, but that's pretty sad. A whole year you've given him! nt

[Tailormyst]

38. You aren't alone

And just realize that those who would take you to task for your choices, it's not personal, they are reacting on an emotional level. Just ignore it. No one with any real sense would think you were a racist because of it.

[asdjrocky]

42. He's lost me Raven.

I'm sure I'll catch bits and pieces, but most likely I won't watch the whole speech.

[demmiblue]

43. I know how you feel... sorry you were pretty much called a racist by other DUers.

Lots of mud-slinging going around... that is the sad part of DU.

Take care!

:hug:

Edit: from to by

[QC]

46. Anyone who doesn't undergo a spontaneous orgasm upon hearing Obama's name

is soon enough accused of racism here.

It's practically a rite of passage.

[demmiblue]

50. I have noticed that.

Sad, very sad.

[Jamastiene]

97. +1000000

[Raine]

56. I'll watch so I can hear it for myself

but I don't trust Obama any longer or believe him. I just want to be able to follow what the talking heads will be commenting on.

[laugle]

63. Your sentiments

are shared by many here, don't fall for the race bait..........it's your choice............

[Jennicut]

66. I would rather know what the President proposes then be in the dark.

Plus, I love history and the SOTU is part of tradition. I even watched W's. So yeah, I am weird.

[ShortnFiery]

68. Sadly, I feel the same way. eom

[saracat]

72. I feel your pain, raven. I haven't yet decided., but I can't bear to listen to him

the empty rhetoric is just words and only makes me angry. I may just read the transcript later.

[frazzled]

73. It probably helps you to retain any preconceived notions you might have

And we wouldn't want to have to be bothered with actually analyzing anything, would we. It's so much more convenient to judge in advance. And then chime in on some thread on the speech initiated by someone else who didn't actually watch it.

For Christ's sake, I even listened to every single Bush SOTU, painful as it was. Because I felt it was necessary to witness firsthand and be INFORMED.

I realize that for some, that can be risky. For if there's anything we despise more than opinions we disagree with, it is having to revise our opinions in any way.

Have fun playing soliltaire, or whatever!

[Jennicut]

75. Yeah, I watched Bush's too. For a laugh.

If someone dislikes Obama so much then throw stuff at the tv. I would shout and throw my kids stuffed animals at W for all 8 years. My kids thought I was nuts but it let my stress out.

[frazzled]

78. Well, I will be interested to see how many non-watchers on this thread ...

are the first to post about how horrible it was! I'll be keeping count.

[Jennicut]

82. Yeah. It will be interesting.

I don't mind if people hate Obama until the cows come home on DU. I just hate that they think watching a SOTU serves no purpose. Who can forget the Axis of Evil? It may not be what you want to hear but it is a part of history. It is why I make myself watch every Presidential debate every 4 years since Clinton, Perot, and HW Bush (I was only 16).

[Cha]

87. Yeah, if they're not watching .. they

can't bitch about it.

[saracat]

107. Many folks who won't watch will read it.I prefer to read it because

I don't want to be affected by artificial nuance and either boos, appluse, interuptions, reactions or talking heads. I want to read what it actually says.I even did that a couple of times with Clinton and Bush. So it is entirely possible to have an opinion , either positive or negatively without "watching".

[PA Democrat]

99. Who is prejudging whom?

I won't watch, but will read a transcript instead. I like the OP, don't have the stomach for the peppy rally atmosphere. I find it distracting and would rather examine the contents of the speech without all of the theatrics.

[ChiciB1]

74. You're NOT ALONE... I've Stopped Watching All The Speeches! My Husband Who

always thought I should tone my politics down some can't believe how I'm feeling these days! I'm the activist in this family and he's actually gotten mad at me for getting so involved in the past. Says it took too much time away from the family... now I say... NO PROBLEM, I'm here now!

Actually I think he's shocked!!

[scheming daemons]

76. You have the right to not watch.... doesn't make it the smart thing to do

Listen to what he has to say... and then make your judgements based on that.


Figuratively putting your fingers in your ears and saying "nyah nyah nyah" is a pretty immature way to approach it.

[inna]

79. what's "immature", condescending and uncalled for is your lame comment.

:thumbsdown:

[Cha]

86. No, it's not uncalled for..it's a keen observation.

[Bobbie Jo]

83. Exactly

the way I would describe it. Figuratively, and otherwise.

[inna]

77. KR

Love you, Raven! :hug:

[jillan]

89. I can't wait to watch it - in fact I am planning my whole day around it.

Make sure everything is done around here so I can sit and listen to the President's plan for the next year.....

I think it's important.

[donheld]

90. No, Raven I'm right with you

I used to love to watch him speak. Now the words just seem hollow. His actions rarely seem to match his words. I've never been so disillusioned as I am now.

[dave29]

93. It is especially sad to witness this display of self torture

folks, watch the speech. If you want to even have a shot at being taken seriously, watch the speech. Inform yourself, not by word of mouth, but by listening to the words coming out of his. Then lets have an honest debate about what those words mean, the best way to turn them into action TOGETHER, and rather than bemoan how "hard" it is to get yourself to watch the speech, remind yourself of all of those terrible things you complain about happening to this country every day, and for the love of whatever you believe in, bring yourself, somehow, to use the remote and turn on the television, as you pivot your chair away from complaining about his every word on DU.

You can do it. I believe in you. It's not. That. Hard.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

94. Couldn't watch it if I wanted to--

I have choir practice.

And no, I don't want to watch it. I have never watched a State of the Union address because they usually make me angry, all that phony cheering. I read about it the next day.

[frazzled]

109. Sure, just read about it ... because you trust the media soooo much

I understand you have choir practice and can't. I'm not knocking that. But the last statement is hysterically funny.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

114. Actually, the New York Times does print the State of the Union address

and other major speeches by political figures, as well as Supreme Court decisions, complete with majority and dissenting statements, verbatim.

I don't always trust the Times (they're too yuppie Establishment for me), but they do print important government stuff verbatim.

[frazzled]

124. Well, you said "read about it," not read it.

I still maintain that people should watch if at all possible. I did it for Bush, though of course I nearly gagged, and almost broke the set throwing shoes at it.
I simply don't understand those who feel they can't watch. I don't watch it on cable or network, because I never want to hear the commentary. But I do watch it on C-Span.

[Jamastiene]

98. His campaigning words ring hollow now that I have seen the direction his policies are taking.

You are not alone. I won't be watching either.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

100. I am having the same response.

I just don't want to be bullshitted anymore -- I am at zero tolerance right now, especially after the HCR debacle and being told I really didn't hear what I had heard. :shrug: :cry:

I hate it when the GOP does it to me, and am deeply insulted when my own party tries to do it.

I may wait for a transcript and save my blood pressure.

:hug: :hi:

[NatBurner]

102. make a post about it

[Uzybone]

103. At least the Republicans are steadfast

no wonder they keep coming back.

The level of spinelessness and hand wringing from our side is disgusting.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. What I find "disgusting" is ---

that, as a 30+ year Democratic voter, I am still waiting for a Democrat to be elected and to govern like fucking strong Democrat. Talk about spineless. :shrug:

[Uzybone]

112. Yep. I agree.

Its not surprising that so many Democrats in government are spineless when democratic voters are so weak in the guts that they surrender after one year. No wonder the caricature of liberals is one of weakness, whining and confusion. Hopefully we will break this trend.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Uzybone]

123. What is the insult for?

We agree and yet you fire insults.

[mochajava666]

104. I'll probably watch, but I feel your pain

If Obama didn't run on hope and change, the hypocrisy wouldn't be so intolerable.

I was so excited when he won the Wisconsin primary, which I voted in. I got up the next morning and told my wife, America will have a black president. I'll never forget that great feeling.

Too bad I must be a racist, since I think he has done a pathetically weak job as a leader.

[azmouse]

105. ...

[inna]

118. that's really mature and intelligent.

:crazy:

[Phx_Dem]

110. Good. Then we won't have to listen to you bitch about it later.

[GoCubsGo]

111. So, then don't watch.

Sheesh.

[Hawkowl]

122. All hat. No cattle.

Obama is merely an empty windbag. He can't back up his fairy tale rhetoric with any concrete actions, so I won't be watching him.

[Blue_In_AK]

127. I'm not sure I'm going to watch either.

[tigereye]

128. it's a good speech - a pleasure to watch

[FrenchieCat]

129. He Brung it!

screw the cynics. They aren't about anything anyways!

Excellent Speech!

[tigereye]

130. yay!

:hi: