My God! Do the Democrats ever learn???

[wowimthere]

They are still in pre-Coakley election night lost mode. They don't seem to have learned anything from the MA senate loss.

Debbie Stabenow - Still talking about the Republicans 41 votes and how she's looking at them to see what they're going to do. She will continue to propose legislation and see if they will block it.

Obama - We shouldn't jam the healthcare bill through without first seating the newly elected senator.

The Whitehouse - They don't know what their going to do about healthcare now that they've lost 1 seat.

Obama - We may slim down healthcare reform.

After the MA election they said they got it. Except... they didn't. Like I said yesterday. Healthcare reform could have been done 6 months ago and Coakley would have sailed into the senate seat.

The Democrats are looking slow-footed, lethargic, inept, and weak. They were hit over the head with a two by four and once they regained consciousness they forgot they lost in MA. What does it take for them to get it?



DEMOCRATS we elected you to do something besides talk. I can't believe I've helped elect a bunch of talkers. They can propose legislation but... well... if the Republicans filibuster then... their question seems to be, "I don't know what to do next".

YOU FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!

GET SOMETHING DONE!!!

You've got 59 seats. Put the Blue Dogs on notice. If you block significant legislation and cause us to lose more seats we will primary you. Tell them, the people expected the following.

-Healthcare Reform
-Cap and Trade
-Regulatory Reform
-Jobs

Tell them - If you stand in the way of what you knew we were trying to accomplish since 2008 then we will run someone against you that will help us move forward on what the people voted us in to do.

The key to fighting Republicans should be a no-brainer:

-Don't continue to bargain with people who will undermine your own chances of re-election.
-You make them filibuster pieces of the healthcare legislation... in public. I guarantee Republicans won't filibuster "pre-existing conditions".
-You use reconciliation where ever you can.
-You use the bully pulpit every chance you get.
-Trash the Republican for the obstructionists they are.
-You don't take your nominees like the TSA off of the table. You call senators like Demint on the carpet and make him continuously answer why he's holding up such an important nominee.
-Stop giving the Republicans 41 votes more power than our 59. That makes no sense.

Help me understand what's going on with the Democrats. We seem to be in a loop. Are the Dems more clueless than I thought.

[BP2]

1. You forgot Supreme Court nominations that the Pukes can now filibuster. Brown-stain's win affects

a lot of what we could have done with a 60-vote block.

Now we get to negotiate with idiots in the Party of No.

[bertman]

34. Please explain to me how the Republicans seated TWO Supreme Court Justices with

only 52 Senators and we Democrats who have 59 Senators are going to not be able to seat a nominee.

[jacksonian]

35. unreasonable Republicans

that's why. Having you been watching? They will fight anything with a D, however reasonable. Dems have a hard time going back to their constituents and saying I did it for the party.

We don't hate enough. And I don't think more hate is the solution to our problems.

[bertman]

36. Dems seem to have more trouble going back to their constituents and saying "I did it

for the Country."

I don't think it's about hate, but about junk-yard dog instinct. The Republicans don't consider themselves to be "unreasonable" because they are standing up for their beliefs. Why should Democrats feel any differently? Especially now that we see that the Republicans will do anything to obstruct President Obama and the Congress.

[jacksonian]

38. it's the hate

they hate us. They're proud of it. A hero to a Repug supporter is someone who screws a Dem.

A hero to a Dem isn't the same thing - Dems want good, they want justice and fairness and resorsefulness. Much better things to want, but it means a career of screwing Repugs isn't a likely path to hero-leader. We have to be better than that.

[derby378]

2. Cap and trade, hell - we need to start by arresting George W. Bush (n/t)

[mn9driver]

3. No.

They never learn.

[USA_1]

4. ''FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!''

That's a phrase I have used on this forum a hundred times.

Unfortunately, the Democratic party and its membership continue to ignore it.

Therefore, expect another Republican in the White House in 2012.

Thank you DP.

[T Wolf]

5. Not clueless. They are doing EXACTLY what their owners want them to. That is how they

hold onto their offices.

We, the voters, do no matter.

The truth that we ever-hopeful Dems fail to get is that "our" politicians do not represent us. They are cozier with the enemy across the aisle (because they consider them to be their true friends) than with the peons (us) who give our dollars, effort and votes to them.

There may be some difference between the Dems and the pukes, but it is far less than we have been lied to to believe.

[dgibby]

7. True,

and it just got worse now that the Supreme Court has overthrown the govt in favor of corporations.

Welcome to the Fascist States of America.

[amborin]

33. true, sadly; theit campaign financing at work

[stray cat]

6. Progressive voters don't learn either

[kenfrequed]

15. Uhm yeah...

Could you maybe qualify that statement?

[PVnRT]

20. Don't hold your breath

[Guilded Lilly]

8. Short answer...apparently not.

I'd make a longer answer but the whole thing right now just saddens me to utter frustration.
There are smart people involved who aren't seemingly using the brains we hoped they would when we managed to elect them.

Many very smart people avoid running for political position because they are smart enough to know that the system seems to be fueled and saturated by a lot of very unintelligent moves. So while we have some very intelligent players...the game is run by lesser brains.

[CoffeeCat]

9. Obama and the White House will use the Brown election...

...to push their TRUE agenda--the one they've been wanting to push all along.

This is a very critical moment; a moment that we'll find out if Obama really is someone who meant
that he would "change" things and give the country the healthcare he promised.

The Brown election can be used to justify being a corporatist shill, non-reformer who continues to
kow tow to Big Health Insurance (pull back). Or...the Brown election can be used to go farther left, and
finally push through meaningful health reform.

The near-term actions of this White House will prove once and for all---what Obama believes and
where his loyalties lie.

Brown will now be used as a marketing device to leverage the President's position. It can be used to leverage and
justify corporatism or true healthcare reform and Progressivism.

Can't wait to see what Obama and his White House does.

[jillan]

10. I hope you are right.

[mzmolly]

12. Obama watched his dying mother struggle with her insurance company

before her death. I have a feeling I know what his "true agenda" is.

[CoffeeCat]

21. Well, health insurance is on the back burner...

...so I would say that tells us something.

We're not forging ahead.

[mzmolly]

22. That's because we can't forge ahead with the legislation it took

about a year to craft.

[CoffeeCat]

30. Yes, but Obama could have used the Brown win...

...to pivot.

He doesn't have to ram legislation through, but he could say, "It is obvious that
Democrats did not turn out in high numbers. They are disenfranchised and they
feel that we are not doing our jobs in Washington. Many Democrats feel that the
party has forgotten them, and they weren't energized enough to go to the polls. As
we move forward in the coming days..."

Obama didn't acknowledge that he has abandoned the majority of people who voted him
into office, and that he needs to do something about it--or more elections will be
lost.

Obama also didn't acknowledge the fact that many Democrats want him to fight for
real reform in healthcare--as he said he would--and that his lack of fight is
part of the reason that we lost Ted Kennedy's seat to a tea partier.

Maybe we will hear this. I just think it's interesting and notable--that we
haven't heard it yet.

[mzmolly]

31. I don't feel abandoned.

and 81 percent of Democrats approve of how he's doing. I'm not sure there are any easy answers? I think we need to focus on jobs and passing incremental health care reform. But, what do I know? ;)

[treestar]

11. You seem to not accept the reality of the filibuster rule

And the stubbornness of Republicans.

The WH does not seem to have hired you for advice. When they do, maybe you'll be able to show them what they should do.

[wowimthere]

17. They should hire someone like me. They'd start winning some of these battles if they really want to

[TheKentuckian]

25. You seem unable to accept that appeasement has it's limits.

The refusal to force them to take tough votes and call them into account firmly and ask for the support of the American people to do what they were sent to Washington to do.

The people won't fight for a leader that won't fight but they will back one out in front and on their side.

He has the talent and abilities to rally the people like no one we've seen in a generation but he is either not inclined to do so or fears to. That is why we got behind him in the first place not to make friends with wealth and power to spread a few crumbs at best.

Bring the weight of the people if you want to serve their interests anything is a lie, Mr. Obama.

[Blue Owl]

13. We shouldn't let the GOP slap us in the face

until after we've given them a hand massage and manicure.

[tom_paine]

14. One has to consider the possibility that they don't want to learn.

That to "learn" would jeopardize the mountains of Corporate Dollars that buy them their limos and ensure that they and their children will be farting through silk while ours are playing "Mad Max" outside the gates.

Democrats, the elected ones anyway, have a role to play, and that is Good Cop.

I can't believe I am saying this. But I am finally convinced.

The Aristocrats and the Corporations own us as thoroughly as any 1790s plantation slaves. However, due to the time and place and our Founding Myths, they have to continue to provide Plausible Deniability, much like Caesar kept the Senate around, even though they had no power anymore.

It's all about the marketing, don't you see.

Anyway, I am convinced our Democratic Leadership, wheteher it's a Big Conspiracy involving guys in dark rooms smoking cigars, or just the natural way it evolved, is not interested in doing anything that would empower the people and disempower our Aristocracy nor the Corporations from which their power flows (NEW and IMPROVED power, now with EXTRA Plausible Deniability).

That's why they keep "losing". The American People "losing" is their "winning".

[wowimthere]

16. Disheartening. Then why take a side? Why even vote if they don't serve the greater good?

[tom_paine]

23. Good question. At this point I would have to answer "a morbid curiosity for Reality TV".

:rofl:

[busymom]

18. I will probably be tombstoned for saying this,

but this is why I was slow to get on the Obama train after Hillary lost. I had trouble believing that he had the political experience necessary to jump into health care reform with both feet and get it done...

I am not happy at all to say that I feel now that my hesitation was justified. I got on board and tried to keep my doubts to myself...but my disappointment now feels like a defining moment for me.

[wowimthere]

24. You're entitled to say that... and not get tumbstoned. I think if you had

reservations then and you see that they've come to light now, it should be okay for you to voice them. That's called freedom of speech.

I happen to think it is about more than just one man, one seat. It's about how the Democrats in general can govern. Whether it was Clinton or Obama, I think structurally, the Democrats having this big tent is counter to their core beliefs... that they should do what they intended to do when they courted our vote. Healthcare instead of death was a platform for Democrats.

Obama doesn't get all of the blame here. He gets some of it but there is enough blame to go around. Lieberman. Lincoln. Nelson. Landruei. Republican obstructionism permitted by the Democrats.

[suzie]

28. So, Hillary would have done a better job?

John Edwards would have done a better job?

Joe Biden would have done a better job?

What you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense, except that you didn't much like Obama and now you have a reason to justify that.

[ibegurpard]

32. I was relieved that Hillary was taken out of contention

I was afraid SHE would be the corporate appeaser like her husband was.

[FrenchieCat]

19. No, WE never learn.

[TheKentuckian]

26. No, we never learn that "solutions" that modestly affect symptoms and do nothing about the disease

aren't even castles made of sand.

Some issues time only allows to fester. Compromise and trying to make baby steps isn't magic it doesn't always work. There is no incremental response to a reactor meltdown, some of our systems threaten to take us down too quick for beltway bullshit.

[centristgrandpa]

27. "Money is like sea water. The more you drink, the thirstier you become."

source quote: "People in the middle, particularly, but actually at both fringes as well, they really want change. That's how we got Barack Obama in there," Begala said.

The challenge for Democrats is to reconnect with voters and try to make the case that they're not fully responsible for the country's problems, Begala said.

"That those deficits that all those independents hate, they were caused by the other guys," he said. "Those were all Republican-Bush deficits that the Democrats are now trying to pay down. And I think they have to make that case. They have not done so. They certainly haven't done so in Massachusetts."

Donahue said fear and insecurity are driving voters' anger.

[wowimthere]

29. Oh and now we learn there is no time table for closing Gitmo per White House... It's gettin' ugly

[LibDemAlways]

37. Imagine the tables turned, and imagine what the R's would do. It doesn't

take much imagination to figure that they'd stall seating the new senator as long as possible. In the meantime they'd ram through every vile piece of pro-corporate, pro-rich people legislation they could possibly come up with that they hadn't already rammed through with a 60 seat majority.

Honest to God, the Dems are a bunch of wusses.

[riverdale]

39. I don't remember anyone waiting for Al Franken to get seated

Dems are pathetically weak

[grillo7]

40. Yeah...lot of respect he was given n/t