We need to grow up about adultery, it is costing us real public servents

[dsc]

I know Edwards is our latest, adulterer du jour. And he is hardly a poster child for good governance or sympathy. But lets look at Eliot Spitzer for a second. Eliot was a crusading, good government poster child. As NY AG he made the system work for NY and the US. Had he not had an affair he could have been AG or SEC chair for Obama. Yes, he broke the law, but so did Geitner. Geitner purposely, and with malice of forethought, cheated the treasury he now runs. Spitzer saw a prostitute and paid her with money he had already paid all his taxes on. But since Eliot had sex, he is forever disqualified. Compare that to the GOP. Craig, Vitter, and Ensign all had affiars, and all broke the law while doing so. Craig served out his term, Ensign and Vitter are fixing to do so. Vitter is running again. Spitzer is a non person. We need to grow up.

[AngryAmish]

1. If Edwards just said he was hiking the Appalachian trail///

[karynnj]

63. You think that worked for the SC governor

He will soon be out of office, his Presidential ambitions, and unlike Edwards his were still in the future and not the past, are dead. He also lost his marriage. (Edwards at minimum damaged his.)

Edwards had no office to lose and he very likely would never have held a federal office again even without the affair. There was no way he could have won the NC Senate seat again. The likelihood that he would have gotten a cabinet post was probably remote - I would bet the Obama people didn't like his "Let's make a deal" attempt. Not too classy - and he had very little to really give. By the end of January he was often below 10% in teh polling and it is not clear that he could "give" his people to anyone.

What Edwards and Sanford both lost was their good name.

It is hard to say one lost more than the other.

[katandmoon]

2. Definitely a double standard, but that doesn't excuse Spitzer.

[dsc]

3. I'm not saying it does

but between him and Geitner who did the worse thing?

[WeDidIt]

4. If some politician will cheat on their wife

how can I trust them not to fuck me over?

[MercutioATC]

5. Unless you are simply demanding perfection from your elected representatives...

...the two really have very little to do with each other.

There are plenty of people who cheat on their spouses while being responsible at work.

[dionysus]

9. it's basic trustworthyness. if you'd lie to your dying wife, you'd pretty much lie to anyone...

[Nordmadr]

20. This. N/T

[newtothegame]

51. Amen. n/t

[WeDidIt]

23. The two have EVERYTHING to do with each other

Basic trust is important, especially for politicians.

I cannot trust a politician who would have an affair on his dying wife to not completely fuck me over.

[stevenleser]

44. See my #43 below (nt)

[Shrek]

7. +1

If a politician won't uphold his marital vows, how can I trust him to uphold his constitutional oath?

Edit: typo

[jberryhill]

18. Because you are not said person's wife?

My plumber might strangle puppies for fun when he gets home, for all I know.

My faucet still works great.

[WeDidIt]

22. Your analogy fails on its face

A plumber doesn't make the life and death decisions a politician makes.

I wouldn't want to fly in an airplane if the pilot is a heroin addict because I cannot trust a heroin addict to not fly stoned.

[jberryhill]

27. Except politicians can't lie about their votes and positions advanced

I don't know how to fly a plane, can't watch the pilot anyway, and can't fire the pilot if I don't like the job he is doing.

The performance of elected representatives in the job they are hired to do, is quite auditable.

Believe it or not, I don't know with whom Bush may or may not have had sex for eight years, but the job he was doing as president was "flying stoned" for sure.

Drug use will impair a pilot's performance. Sex won't. Do you care if your pilot is cheating on his or her spouse? Why, or why not?

[WeDidIt]

42. Politicians lie about their policy positions and how they'll vote all the time

When they campaign.

Which is when you place your trust in them by voting for them.

And an adulterer has proven, they cannot be trusted to keep their word. Ergo, they cannot be trusted to keep any promise made during a campaign, which is why adulterous affairs coming to light in an election is so fucking toxic.

[jberryhill]

53. An adulterer can last a lot longer than a politician who reverses a position

The performance of a Congressman is pretty clear in the two year term.

I don't see how Edward's marital issues was an indication that he was a secret teabagger.

And, finally, there is an implicit assumption here that an adulterer is necessarily a "liar". That's really something only the couple would know, as many marriages are maintained for appearance purposes.

Governor Sanford was a right wing SOB, and a quite faithful one. I just don't see the connection. Sorry.

[Beer Snob-50]

30. so then..

can we trust a politician who fucked over his employer in his past by taking paperclips home?

can we trust a politician who fucked over society by jaywalking/speeding/running a redlight?

can we trust someone who fucks over his employer by posting on du while working?

[gorfle]

37. I agree with you.

Sorry, but marriage is a commitment. People who break that commitment have demonstrated that they lacked sufficient willpower to resist their urges and hold to their commitment. It also shows poor judgment skills. It also demonstrates a mindset capable of trying to get away with things they know are wrong.

These are all very bad character flaws.

[stevenleser]

43. These are non-political and subjective beliefs.

The same way one shouldn't impose one's religious (or lack of religious) beliefs on anyone else, you shouldn't project onto other people what marriage and its vows mean in the context of the rest of their lives or trustworthiness.

Other people do not necessarily believe that.

[gorfle]

47. No Problem.

I have no problem with that.

If a politician gets caught with another woman and he and his wife want to get on national TV and say, "This was consensual with my wife as we have an open marriage" then I will withhold any judgments about his lack of control or willingness to try and get away with things he knows is wrong.

But so long as they are operating under the same definition of marriage as I am, then I will make those judgments.

[stevenleser]

48. Like religious beliefs, their beliefs on those things are none of our business

that is the point. We dont have a right to know.

[gorfle]

49. But when we find out anyway, what choice do you have?

We dont have a right to know.

Whether I have a right to know about someone's religious views or extramarital affairs or not is beside the point. Once I know, then I know something about that person's character.

[Thothmes]

57. How is an oath of marriage different from an oath

to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Are they both non political and subjective.

[Adelante]

6. Adultery isn't my problem

I don't care about politicians' marital problems. People should be able to work out their own marriages. I care about the political deception throughout the 2008 election that could have cost us the White House. That's what I care about.

[Captain Hilts]

19. A president and candidate must not do anything that makes them vulnerable to blackmail. nt

[Clio the Leo]

29. bingo NT

[dionysus]

8. on the one hand, you can say what goes on behnd doors is no one's business. to an extent, that is

true.

however, if a slimy piece of shit like edwards would betray his terminally ill wife and lie about it, he's simply not trustworthy enough to lead the country. luckily his campaign was so lousy we didnt have to deal with him as nominee.

[Captain Hilts]

16. True. And vulnerable to blackmail. If J. Edgar Hoover had tried to blackmail

FDR or Eleanor about their respective lovers, they would have picked up the phone and dialed the other for Hoover.

Though FDR's encouraging Eleanor's boyfriend to have an affair with his girlfriend confused the shit out of everyone, even the R's kids.

[90-percent]

10. Spitzer

could have been a lot worse. They could have Wellstoned him for what he knew and what he was about to bring down on the Banksters.

At least we still have him around commenting quite effectively on TV.

It is an extreme double standard, though. Dems do the honorable thing and resign. Republicans show no contrition what so ever and just go on like nothing happened. It's infuriating they get away with that. But, if they can get away with starting a War based on lies, then this is chump change to them.

-90% jimmy

Edwards getting his mistress pregnant might even be a resign-able offense even for a Republican. I can't see anybody in elected office keeping their job after doing something like that.

[patrice]

11. It isn't about excusing anything. It IS about honesty, especially in a cheating culture.

I haven't seen any statistics on how common such behavior is, but the last time I did, the information shows that adultery is much much much more common than many suppose, even fashionable in some quarters.

If JE is going to be flogged, I want all of the other adulterers, who represent themselves falsely in their relationships, to step forward and 'fess up, or at least STFU about JE.

[Fly by night]

12. No. We need politicians whose word means something, including promises they make to their spouses.

It would be nice to believe (with a high degree of confidence) that the ability to be trusted is one thing that distinguishes Democrats from Rethugligans.

If you can't be faithful to your spouse, don't get married. Or get divorced.

Cheating on your spouse and lying about it (and lying about the child you fathered out of wedlock for over two years) is a sign of a dishonest and self-serving man.

In case you think me a prude for these comments, I am a thrice-married man who cheated on wife #1 and still regret it today (over 30 years later).

[Bluenorthwest]

13. I'm all grown up about adultery

Hypocrisy on the other hand I am not going to call groovy to serve anyone. Had Edwards not chosen to frame himself as a defender of the Sacred Bond between One Man and One Woman, with full detail about his Deacon Daddy, Baptist roots, claiming that he was an adherent to traditional marriage of the most conservative kind, at the expense of others, for his own benefit, to cover up that which he was lying about even as he declared himself too Christian to make a mistake, well, that would be one thing....but he did so it is not, it is hypocrisy.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Right, this goes beyond adultery. nt

[cali]

14. the problem with Spitzer is he prosecuted people doing what he was doing

there's a yuck factor there.

[Captain Hilts]

15. There's adultery, and there' adultery. Steppin' out on your sick wife and subjecting yourself to

blackmail will NEVER be acceptable.

Not to mention fathering a child and having someone else take responsibility for it.

[zulchzulu]

32. Precisely

Sure, some politicians get caught but Edwards set a new standard for being a scumbag. Cheating on your wife while she's sick and fathering a lovechild and being arrogant about it is enough reason to destroy anyone's political career.

[struggle4progress]

21. I agree, but that won't happen any time soon. I'd much rather have political fights over issues

than discuss the migratory habits of one-eyed trouser snakes. But it's as difficult to stop as a mountain feud: if one side is willing to wage campaigns based on personal lives, the other side won't sidestep opportunities to reciprocate

[BP2]

24. Marriage is a Christian concept. Pagans of old didn't practice handfasting until it was introduced

by outsiders.

Only a handful of the creatures in the animal world practices monogamy.

All that said: if your partner cheats on you, nothing rips out and stomps on your soul - and trust - more.

[theboss]

35. So, Romans did not get married?

Someone should alert Calpernia.

[BP2]

38. The origin actually goes back to the Code of Hammurabi nearly 4000 years ago in Mesopotamia. The

Greek and Roman nobles, such as Calpernia, recognized marriage to ensure a line of
succession, but really didn't universally require it amongst the commoners.

It took the Christians to push it up to the next level - holy matrimony - which also
served as a means to collect taxes more readily amongst the parishioners.

Today, our government has bastardized marriage even further, as a means to DENY health care
coverage to common-law marriages and partners of gay & lesbian couples.

We've become SO sophisticated :puke:

[CBGLuthier]

46. really?

Reminds me of the scene in Gandhi when he said the SA laws made all of them bastards and their mothers and wives whores.

[newtothegame]

25. Spitzer is a good example of this, however...

I think there's a general feeling that if a person needs to sneak around and be dishonest with their best friend/closest confidant in the world (their spouse), how likely are they to be honest/forthright in their dealings with the people that re-elect them? You see this in EVERY aspect of public life these days. No one is honest until they've been caught, and sometimes not even then. Affairs, steroids in baseball, you name it, a person will deny it, lie until they're blue in the face, until there is no more denying to be done. If they're willing to lie to their spouse to save face, YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR they'll lie to save face in front of an entire country.

[dsc]

31. the same could be said of a closeted gay politician

would I have been unacceptable as a public servent due to lying (at least by ommission) about being gay until I fully came out at work?

[newtothegame]

41. Who'd you hurt by lying?

Noone.

[gorfle]

50. +1

Exactly.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. I liked Edwards I really did...BUT...

...if he won't take care of his sick wife and he denies his own children why should I believe he would have any concern for faceless, nameless voters in far off districts.

Take Obama for a comparison and contrast: loving father, devoted husband. Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the inner quality that makes him such a good father and husband translates into his overall character as a leader?

just sayin'

[lib2DaBone]

28. How come our society punishes Tiger Woods as a sex addict..

..Then pushes Viagra on TV 24/7?

If Tiger wants to ruin his marriage that's his business.. but somewhere beneath the surface... there is a disconnect.

Hypocrisy? Christian Dogma? Religious right propaganda?

Where's my Enzyte...

[jberryhill]

55. What do those two things have to do with each other?

This may come as a surprise to you, but quite a few faithful committed couples find sexual relations to be a component of maintaining their commitment and overall mental and emotional well being as a couple.

[msongs]

33. hey I love liars, cheaters, and decievers, don't you love em too" yeah right nt

[theboss]

34. Spitzer didn't just have sex; he hired hookers

I don't know if you know the type of people who usually control prostitution, but it ain't the Boy Scouts. How can Spitze be a "law and order" governor when ever career criminal in the state only has to make one phone call to blackmail him?

How can John Edwards talk about fairness and character and be any kind of leader when he is lying to his cancer-ridden wife and having a love child?

There is an element of moral authority in leadership that is difficult to overlook.

In fairness, it might be easier for a legislator to handle this kind of scandal. Craig, Ensign, and Vitter don't have to actually do anything or lead anyone. They can just sit in their seat and vote.

Sanford has completely paralyzed the state of South Carolina because he won't go away.

[Captain Hilts]

39. He broke the law AND made himself vulnerable to blackmail. nt

[sybylla]

36. AG's aren't allowed to break the law - regardless of the act

In my state, our Dem AG got a DUI driving a state vehicle. She didn't resign, much to the chagrin of many Dems at the time. It was early in her 4-year term and by the time re-election came along, she had mea culpa-ed us to death and rehabilitated her image to the point that she'd convinced most people it truly was a one-time stupid mistake. By the end of her term, she'd really won a tremendous amount of credibility and support from the general electorate.

And she was a terrific AG. But the Dem Gov, her political rival, saw it as an opportunity to take her out and sent in one of his goons to primary her. She lost. Followed by a Dem loss in the general.

Now, I know this kind of proves your point, but I have to say that of all the political positions in this country where we need to have zero tolerance for breaking the law is when we elect people to positions of upholding the law.

As to adultery in general, so long as the activity had no bearing on the competency of the politician and did not require the use or misuse of government property and employees, then I'm in hearty agreement with you. I think Bill Clinton's experiences in this circumstance point out that Democrats generally side with us as well.


Edited to add that I think Spitzer is forever disqualified not because of his adultery but because he broke the law. I think it's a good thing that we hold our legislators to a higher standard than the pukes do - especially when it comes to abiding by the law.

[Hello_Kitty]

40. The problem with Spitzer is that while he was patronizing hookers

He was also prosecuting other hookers, vigorously. Which makes him a giant fucking hypocritical asswipe who, I'm sorry, deserved to lose his job. It's not like he was pushing for lenience or decriminalization, or anything that would make sex workers' lives better in his state. He was doing the opposite.

[LatteLibertine]

45. IMO it shows a fundamental character flaw

Like another said it also opens them to blackmail and manipulation.

I'd rather our "public servants" grow up and not take oaths or vows they do not intend to keep. It isn't about sex, it's about oath breaking and betraying loyalties.

[asdjrocky]

52. Hear, hear!

It's only bad for you if your a Dem. This country and system has become one huge joke.

[JI7]

54. Spitzer did not get in trouble for adultery, if he just had an affair nobody would have cared

but it was prostitution which is illegal and something he himself has gone after.

but i agree about Spitzer and glad to see him out there again talking about the issues. hopefully he can get into some public office again one day.

[Teaser]

56. We need, as a society, to recognize that monogamy is not for everyone

and if you are one of those people who are not monogamously inclined, do not marry individuals who do not share (or at least accept) your inclinations.

But for this to happen, we would need magic fairy dust. And I'm all out.

[krabigirl]

58. +1

[ibegurpard]

61. Of course it's not

And we should respect the integrity of people who recognize that and choose NOT to make that commitment.
But if you do, then honor it. What's the point of committing to another person if you can't honor that?

[krabigirl]

59. Yes, I agree. Do you think they care about this crap in France? not one bit.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

64. Anybody remember Francois Mitterand's state funeral? I do.

Widow and child showed up.
Mistress and child showed up. Nobody batted an eye.

[Nedsdag]

66. I don't think Mitterand would stoop so low to cheat on his wife who had terminal cancer.

Hell, even he had scruples.

[ibegurpard]

60. Or, if you make a commitment how about keeping your dick in your pants?

Now, I'm not of the opinion that adultery is an impeachable offense but I have a pretty hard time summoning respect OR trust for someone who makes that commitment and doesn't honor it.
If you're not ready to settle down then don't.

[proteus_lives]

62. They have no one to blame but themselves.

My advice to all politicians: keep it in your pants.

[David Zephyr]

65. I hear you, but I think cheating on your mate is rotten.

I don't think that Eliot is disqualified for office. Americans give people second chances. So in this we agree.

On the other hand, cheating on your mate is shitty. When men or women do it, it is wrong.

[dsc]

68. It is shitty, that is no doubt

I surely wouldn't want to be married to Eliot but between him and Geithner I know who I trust with public funds and it ain't geitner.

[dkf]

67. Are you kidding? I am glad we make a big deal out of it otherwise we will get these jokers

Thinking they can run. I hope every politician looks at Edwards and never let's themselves get into that situation.