Colombia's Uribe visits Honduras to restore ties

[Judi Lynn]

Jan 30, 12:55 PM EST
Colombia's Uribe visits Honduras to restore ties

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) -- Colombian President Alvaro Uribe is in Honduras meeting with newly inaugurated president Porfirio Lobo, a first step toward repairing international ties that were fractured in a June coup.

The Organization of American States cut off diplomatic ties to Honduras in the summer after then-President Manuel Zelaya was forced into exile, and millions of dollars in foreign aid was frozen. Uribe's visit is part of Lobo's efforts to restore those ties.

Other countries appear to support normalized relations as well: The presidents of Taiwan, Panama and the Dominican Republic attended Lobo's inauguration Wednesday and the U.S. ambassador to Honduras says the new leader should be able to name an ambassador to Washington in the near future.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_HONDURAS_COUP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-01-30-12-55-08

[EFerrari]

1. Aren't there rodents that clean up after vultures? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

2. Looks that way here! Maybe as long as he's there, he can round up those paras from Colombia

who went over there to assist the coup and large landowners. Their job is probably finished in Honduras by now, and they can get back to work re-terrorizing Colombian campesinos.

Sounds like this rodent is doing a favor for the State Department, making a public statement that Honduras is back in bidness, and will probably be getting a boost in the next boatload of money or something, at the continuing, draining expense of the US taxpayers.

[Zorro]

3. What's best for the Honduran people is to have normalized relations with their neighbors

Kudos to Uribe for showing statesmanship.

When will Venezuela do the same?

[EFerrari]

4. What a crock. That's what's best for the few who have hijacked Honduran democracy.

Why do you hate democracy, Zorro?

What's best for Hondurans is for the violent repression that has killed, raped and disappeared people to stop, not to be encouraged by the US and its lapdogs.

[Zorro]

5. Democracy has been served in Honduras

There was a recent election, and the people's choice won. Just because whichever candidate you supported lost does not de-legitimize the results.

Even Cesar Ham has reconciled his political differences with the elected government, and has decided to serve the people of Honduras as a Lobo cabinet minister.

[EFerrari]

7. As I said, what a crock.

[Zorro]

8. Loyal followers of Zelaya are joining the new government

Get over it.

[EFerrari]

9. Ah, yes, the imperative case. How appropriate. n/t

[Downwinder]

14. Tomás Andino's letter of resignation from the UD

http://www.quotha.net/node/732

[Wilms]

11. Do you just make stuff up, Zorro?

Here's my link. Where is yours?

snip

What has transpired in Honduras in recent weeks has eliminated the prospects for free and fair elections. Actions specifically aimed at suppressing political organizing for the election, including mass arrests, illegal detentions, and violence -- documented by respected international groups such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights -- have yet to be investigated or prosecuted by the Honduran attorney general's office.

More than 50 candidates for public office, including several running for congressional and mayoral seats and one presidential candidate, have removed their names from the ballot in protest against the coup regime.

Lists of anti-coup activists have been compiled by local mayors and given to the military. The government's telecommunications commission has continued to block pro-Zelaya media outlets, forcing them to play reruns of old cowboy movies rather than news critical of the coup regime.

snip

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/11/25/the_sham_elections_in_honduras

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

13. The NDI? Really?

Snip

FREESTON: The NDI also admits in the report that they weren't in the country long enough to call themselves an observer mission under international standards. In fact, under international standards, which require extensive pre-election observation, there were no legitimate international observers in Honduras for the election.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4573

[Zorro]

15. Apparently my response must have touched a nerve

And some sensitive soul squawked furiously.

[EFerrari]

16. When you resort to blatant sexism, yes, your posts will be alerted.

You might not only review DU rules but also the Democratic platform.

But let's get back to you citing the NDI. What is the basis for their authority? They themselves acknowledge they don't qualify as observers.

What do you make of that?

[Zorro]

20. Yes chickens around the world were outraged by such "blatant sexism"

and furiously clucked their displeasure.

[EFerrari]

24. The "chicken" is the one who is avoiding the fact that the authority he cited

has been shown to be no authority at all.

:)

[Zorro]

27. Well...

had you actually bothered to read the links I had posted before letting the bee in your bonnet lead you to alert the mods, you would find the following clarification:

"...The decision to send this mission to Honduras was taken shortly after the signing of the Tegucigalpa/San José Agreement, which set out a process for resolving the country’s political stalemate. However, given severe time constraints, NDI was unable to send a formal international election observation mission in accordance with standards set forth in the widely recognized Declaration of Principles for International Election Observation, which is endorsed by 35 leading intergovernmental and nongovernmental organizations..." and "...NDI decided to send a more limited, specialized assessment mission to provide an impartial, objective source of information regarding this process..."

So, in simple terms, time constraints did not allow establishing a "formal" mission and and all the attendant coordination. Nevertheless, NDI DID send a "specialized assessment" mission, which reported no evidence of widespread electoral abuse or fraud, and even reported that the 2009 election was more transparent than the one that brought Hugo's toadie Mel into office.

[EFerrari]

28. By their own admission, they were not qualified observers.

:)

[Zorro]

33. So highlight where they "admit" "they were not qualified observers"

[EFerrari]

34. I already posted the link. Have a good night. n/t

[Wilms]

40. Yes you did. Yet the poster continues to ignore the fact while coming off as adolescent.

Another poster is doing the same with me further down thread. And these two are among a small handful that do so frequently.

It would be obvious to anyone paying attention to the thread. So why do they persist? :shrug:

We should make sure we minimize the time distracted by these conditions, and instead move forward with the conversation. If the intent is to disrupt honest discourse, you'll admit they're pretty good at it.

[Zorro]

44. Hey Brainiac a non-responsive post is a non-responsive post

Are you claiming that the elections were not free and transparent?

Seems you can't give a direct answer to a question, either.

[Wilms]

47. No name calling. That, too, is rude. Here's your link.

In addition, the report cited the “state of siege” (estado de sitio) that was decreed on Sept. 27 and extended three weeks into the official campaign period. The decree suspended constitutional guarantees, which included freedom of speech and assembly, and protection against arrest without warrant. Under this suspension of civil rights, security forces closed two opposition media outlets and reportedly damaged broadcast equipment. A number of international and national human rights groups raised concerns about these and other developments, including arbitrary detentions and excessive use of public force against demonstrations.

http://www.ndi.org/Honduran_Leaders_Need_to_Begin_Reconciliation_Process


That's what you are calling that a free and fair election.

:hi:

[Zorro]

51. NEWS FLASH!

THE OPPOSITION PARTY'S CANDIDATE WON!

Seems to be strong evidence of a free, fair, and transparent election to me.

[Zorro]

43. So you posted a link that didn't answer the question.

So highlight where they "admit" "they were not qualified observers". Seems like a pretty simple request.

And I'm talking about a direct quote that supports your assertion that they declared they weren't qualified observers.

[Bacchus39]

31. I wonder who she thinks Hondurans voted for

someone won that election. the EU also said the election was fine. Zelaya is history. resigned to spend the rest of his days living amongst the common people in his modest accomodations in Punta Cana.

[Wilms]

17. Feel free to PM me with it.

Or, just put up a link that refutes mine.

[Zorro]

21. Are you saying the 2009 Honduran elections were not fair or transparent?

Objective monitors observing the election would disagree, as would the State Department, which declared that the Honduran election met international standards for fairness and transparency and commended Porfirio Lobo for what it termed an "ample victory".

http://www.ndi.org/node/15943

http://www.ndi.org/files/preliminary_report_NDI_assessment_mission_to_Honduran_elections.pdf

http://www.ndi.org/files/Hagamos_Democracia_Final_Report_on_Election_Observation_and_Quick_Count-English.pdf

http://www.ndi.org/Honduran_Leaders_Need_to_Begin_Reconciliation_Process

http://www.elheraldo.hn/Inicio/Ediciones/2009/11/30/Noticias/Parlamento-europeo-certifica-transparencia-de-comicios

Were there problems? Of course; there are always problems during elections, and are noted in the links. But did they rise to the level of electoral abuse and fraud as the chorus of cranky caterwaulers wail? Nope.

And Lobo is obviously working on reconciliation, and has included opposition politicians in his new cabinet.

[Downwinder]

22. Golpistas. n/t

[Wilms]

25. You know exactly what I refer to. And even your links back it up.

And you've not refuted the link I provided above.

[Zorro]

30. The US State Department called the elections fair and transparent

I'd say that pretty much "refutes" your insinuation otherwise. They certainly have superior information and insight into election events.

Even Zelaya supporters are joining Lobo's cabinet. That's a good sign that the new Honduran government is serious about reconciliation.

[Wilms]

32. Again, it's the entire political process.

Even your link says so.

Why quibble? :shrug:

[Zorro]

35. A fair and transparent election was held, and Pepe Lobo won.

And there was no evidence of widespread electoral abuse or fraud. That's what those links indicate.

Are you going to condemn Hugo's 2006 election as unfair, since the opposition boycotted it?

[EFerrari]

36. Your links are not to quaified observers.

:)

And on top of that, there was this little glitch.

http://videos.mcclatchydc.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=7815996&item_index=1&all=1&sort=NULL

[Zorro]

46. You're exactly right.

My links are not to "quaified" observers. They are to objective, independent observers who did not report evidence of massive electoral fraud or abuse.

So all you have is that the voter turnout wasn't as high as hoped for? It was only about 50% or so?

Are you proposing that a democracy should demand 100% voter participation?

[EFerrari]

53. They are partisan. Please, give it up. n/t

[Wilms]

37. And again, a link I provided hours ago escapes your comment.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/11/25/the_sham_elections_in_honduras

And one you provided doesn't paint the picture of a healthy democratic process.

http://www.ndi.org/Honduran_Leaders_Need_to_Begin_Reconciliation_Process

[Bacchus39]

38. thanks for the link from NDI on the orderly and peaceful Honduran election

Lobo is president.

[Wilms]

39. Your comment is at odds with honest discourse. So I'll quote directly from the NDI article.

In addition, the report cited the “state of siege” (estado de sitio) that was decreed on Sept. 27 and extended three weeks into the official campaign period. The decree suspended constitutional guarantees, which included freedom of speech and assembly, and protection against arrest without warrant. Under this suspension of civil rights, security forces closed two opposition media outlets and reportedly damaged broadcast equipment. A number of international and national human rights groups raised concerns about these and other developments, including arbitrary detentions and excessive use of public force against demonstrations.

http://www.ndi.org/Honduran_Leaders_Need_to_Begin_Reconciliation_Process

Again, I refer to the process.

And again, your commitment to honest discussion is apparent.

[Bacchus39]

41. your discussion is at odds with the facts. Zelaya is gone and Lobo is president

those are the facts. oh yeah, Mitcheletti is gone too.

[Wilms]

42. It's rude of you to not acknowledge the substance of my post.

That is a fact.

[Bacchus39]

45. too bad

and your post didn't mention that the draconian measures instituted my Mitchelli were reversed after international pressure.

but what really matters is that Lobo is president. Mitcheletti "the dictator" gave up power and Zelaya is playing golf in Punta Cana with his bodyguard hat rack caddy.

[Wilms]

48. Have they replaced the broadcast equipment they destroyed?

Smug right-wingers.

[Bacchus39]

50. you'll have to ask the Lobo administration n/t

s

[Zorro]

49. Reading comprehension problems?

See post 30.

Are you asserting that the elections were not fair and transparent? Because some candidates dropped out? Yeah, you go with that.

[Wilms]

52. A “state of siege” is not compatible with free and fair elections.

Clinton's staff's appraisel notwithstanding.

In addition, the report cited the “state of siege” (estado de sitio) that was decreed on Sept. 27 and extended three weeks into the official campaign period. The decree suspended constitutional guarantees, which included freedom of speech and assembly, and protection against arrest without warrant. Under this suspension of civil rights, security forces closed two opposition media outlets and reportedly damaged broadcast equipment. A number of international and national human rights groups raised concerns about these and other developments, including arbitrary detentions and excessive use of public force against demonstrations.

http://www.ndi.org/Honduran_Leaders_Need_to_Begin_Reconciliation_Process

[Bacchus39]

18. indeed there was, and the people decided

funny how the Zelaya fanatics were saying that the low participation rate puts the election question when those were the same that supported boycotting. hello??? anyway its good Z and the oddest "dictator" in history Michelleti who willingly gave up power are gone. lets see what Lobo can do,

[Wilms]

19. Indeed my left foot.

How many candidates dropped out? And why?

And...for a really good laugh...tell us the list of entities who recognize the election.

:rofl:

[Bacchus39]

23. I believe one withdrew. there might have others who had no chance of winning as well

thats their choice though or excuse for not getting any support. so to answer your first question one candidate dropped out.

I don't know the "list" of entities that recognize the election. I didn't realize there was a critical mass of election confirming foreign entities required for recognizing Hondurans election. here is a list of countries as of December 9th

http://www.world4honduras.com/2009/12/countries-recognizing-honduras.html

you can add El Salvador, but I am not keeping track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_general_election,_2009


a pretty good rundown from Wikipedia

[Wilms]

26. There isn't a "critical mass". But, from wiki -

On 30 November at the 19th Ibero-American Summit in Estoril, Portugal the governments of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Spain, Uruguay, and Venezuela announced they are not recognizing the elections whereas Colombia, Costa Rica and Panama expressed they will while the rest of the members did not give any response.

[Bacchus39]

29. and??? Lobo is the president is he not? funny you asked me how

many candidates withdrew when one of your links already had the info. there were what 6 candidates in the presidential elections including from Zelaya's party who came in second. candidates can withdraw at their own discretion. Hondurans still elected Lobo. they don't need the blessing of other countries for their own elections. Zelaya is history. an utter failure. don't worry, I'd be surprised if Lobo amounts to much.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roody]

10. Gross.