Chavez's TV appearance cancelled due to health (Suspendido Aló, Presidente por quebranto de salud)

[IndianaGreen]

Source: El Nacional

This is breaking news:

Suspendido Aló, Presidente por quebranto de salud

El Ministerio de Comunicación e Información dio a conocer la noticia sin informar sobre la naturaleza del malestar que aqueja al Presidente

Aló, Presidente (Hello, President--Chavez TV show) is off the air due to the President's illness

The Minister of Communications and Information gave the news without giving details as to the nature of President Chavez's illness.



No link yet.

[Judi Lynn]

1. Thanks for posting this info. Will be keeping an eye out for more. n/t

[WriteDown]

54. See post 56 for a theory. nt

[Bumblebee]

2. Oh, no, must be American imperialists!

Or he is sick with envy that Obama, and not he, got the Peace Prize. His response definitely sounded that way... unlike Castro's.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Or his people are sick of hearing from him? He just might be over-exposed! nt

[Judi Lynn]

5. Really? What about the people in other Latin American countries whose Presidents make

weekly broadcasts?

Why not get busy and start learning about the subject you attempt to discuss? Operating from a reality base will give you the credibility you lack.

[Captain Hilts]

8. They're probably sick of them, too. nt

[bbinacan]

9. LOL

good comeback. :evilgrin:

[Captain Hilts]

11. Leaders DO get over-exposed, and Obama is not among them. nt

[Braulio]

14. Chavez is good for Venezuelans' physical conditioning

Having Hello President on Sundays, and chatting away for hours and hours, President Chavez is one of the most important factors in the physical conditioning of the Venezuelan people. According to what I heard from Venezuelans, as soon as he starts talking they go out and start doing sports, or get in bed to have sex.

[47of74]

24. Well I know when Bush was President

Just hearing that man's voice was grating so I'd have to turn off the TV, but then (and yes I know this probably way TMI) I'd not even be in the mood for solo stuff then.

[troubledamerican]

45. Hilts will never have credibility on Latin America

Hilts' statement "They're probably sick of them too" indicates a baseline position of anti-Latin Americanism, betrayed by the key word "probably", revealing a tendency toward generalization, lack of specificity, and lack of interest in facts.

[ChangoLoa]

71. Talk about credibility after insulting a person who just criticized Chavez with leftist arguments?

And you even talk about "a tendency toward generalization, lack of specificity, and lack of interest in facts" after saying:
"I'll bet "Spanza" has family economic interests in Latin Amer.
Everything about "Spanza"'s position indicates right-wing oligarch-positive"

Ironical much inquisitor?

[Ken Burch]

17. Or it could be that the guy is ACTUALLY sick?

Christ, what did Hugo ever do to you?

[David__77]

38. The world needs a new Lenin Peace Prize.

Chavez definitely has done more for world peace than Obama has. I voted for Obama and would do so again. But Chavez represents the hopes and dreams of the majority oppressed by imperialism.

[boppers]

41. Lenin Peace Prize?

The person who did the most to kill agrarian peoples, create dictators, and suppress free speech, while claiming to help them?

[David__77]

50. Many outstanding progressives received this prize, so yes.

I don't care. We can call it the "Mandela Peace Prize." Mandela himself won the Lenin Peace Prize, and effusively praised the legacy of that prize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin_Peace_Prize

[boppers]

52. Wow, I thought you were making a joke.

I had no idea it was real.

That being said, the Nobel is about "peace among nations", and Mandela (and others with a "Lenin") created "peace within nations"... it certainly is prize worthy.

[robo50]

4. Swine Flu? Can we hope?

[Peace Patriot]

7. Now we get to see the real swinishness of these anti-Chavez posters!

Cheering someone's illness. Hoping for the worst!

Nevermind the 60% approval ratings Chavez has among Venezuelans, these venomous haters want those voters to be deprived of their choice of president, by his becoming ill, maybe even dying. Whoopee, they shout!

Disgusting.

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

10. Two of the most notorious anti-Chavistas support the Honduras coup

They probably cheered in private when that GOP delegation went to Tegucigalpa to cavort with the Micheletti regime, and their heads probably exploded when the State Department froze the golpistas' assets.

[Bumblebee]

13. Guess what -- one can be against the coup in Honduras and still detest Chavez.

Or is this too complicated a notion? Do we have to emulate Bush in his simplistic either with us or against us idiocy? No one suggested he should die. Swine flu is usually not lethal.

[Ken Burch]

18. Chavez is just another elected head of government

All he's guilty of is not selling out to the bankers. That's the only reason why the U.S. media ever generated any hostility to him.

[Bumblebee]

20. This statement is either dishonest or totally ignorant.

[Ken Burch]

22. The man is freely elected

If the opposition had acted as a loyal opposition(that is, criticising his policies but not acting as if he has no right to be in power and that the people who support him have no right to be in power)none of the mildly unpleasant things that have happened would have occurred.

Those who are antichavista want to go back to the old days when light-skinned Spanish descent Venezuelans had all the power and the poor had no hope for anything. That's what cooperating with the IMF and putting the "opposition" in power would mean.

[spanza]

26. You don't know much about Venezuela and it shows

You don't even know who the opposition is. And basically what you say is that the entire opposition should be ignored because there were opponents in 2002 who attempted a coup against the legitimate govt. That doesn't make any sense.

What about the half of today's opposition formed by former chavistas?

Do you mean they are infiltrated CIA agents like Chavez said?

[Ken Burch]

27. None of the opposition is Afro-Venezuelan, none is poor people

and there aren't any leftists lined up with Manuel Rosales.

The opposition is about restoring the old order.

The point is, they have no reason to be trying to bring Chavez down before the elections. It's enough that they can vote for someone else when the vote comes. Venezuela is not Albania, and it's not even Cuba. Chavez is just another democratic leader and is a legitimate as anyone else in Latin America.

[EFerrari]

32. spanza is trying hard to make it into the ant-Chavez Top Ten.

:)

[IndianaGreen]

34. No one can beat 'El Alcalde' for anti-Chavista fervor

:P

[bitchkitty]

61. Ha! He should dream on.

He's an amateur!

[spanza]

40. Sorry but that's not true and a bit absurd

You are describing a binary, simple and primitive world. It's obvious that there are many poor people in the opposition. In fact, you should remember the last regional elections. Caracas, Zulia, Carabobo and Miranda were won by opposition candidates. These are the 4 most populated areas of the country and the ones with the highest amount of urban poverty. Moreover, you should note that Chavez won the last referendum with 54-55% of the vote. That means the opposition was 45-46% of the people in that occasion.

Venezuelan opposition is a mix. There are anarchists, maoists, socialists, socio-democrats and demo-cristians. Some are part of the "old order" you mentioned, some are not. The same goes for chavistas. Many of them were adecos (socio-dem) and others, like many members of his family, were copeyanos (demo-cristian.. right-wing). There are many opposition politicians that were part of the government 3-4 years ago. The fact that many former chavistas were against him in the 2006 elections shows that your point is wrong (except if you think that an important part of Chavez's side was right-wing before that).

So yes, naturally, there is an important leftist opposition in Venezuela. I am a liberal socialist and I don't agree with Chavez anymore. In fact, after 11 years of power, I don't consider him as a progressive at all, even if I agree on some of his measures in some fields. But when he describes my country as divided between revolutionaries and fascists, when he insults his own deputies and militants for criticizing his government, when he insists on creating an atmosphere where if you're not with him, you're against him, I fear the authoritarian and personalist direction he's taking. I will never agree on the internal enemy paranoia, I consider it to be a fascist trend.

Manuel Rosales is not the leader of the opposition. He was the candidate 3 years ago and today he's in Peru and has no importance in Venezuela whatsoever. But saying he's right-wing is a mistake. He's certainly not revolutionary but he's a socio-democrat. And if you say socio-dems are right-wing, it would mean that US democratic party is very right-wing... and that would be a nonsense.

Of course Chavez is the legitimate elected president of Venezuela. I never contested that so why would you bring that up? I can criticize him even if he's a democratic leader and even if chavistas consider me to be their 'enemy' for that.

The ones who did the infamous coup in 2002 are either in jail or in exile. If you insist that today's opposition leaders had something to do with the coup, I'd like to ask you why isn't there a single trial today against them?

You need to understand that chavismo is a homogeneous group whereas opposition is very diverse. By the way, consider venezuela's political spectrum without stereotypes and clichés from other latin american countries and you'll notice that Venezuela has traditionally been the most leftist country in the Americas (besides Cuba). It will maybe surprise you, but I think there's no real oligarchy in Venezuela besides the petro-state clientelist network.

[troubledamerican]

47. Ken Burch is exactly correct. I'll bet "Spanza" has family economic interests in Latin Amer.

Everything about "Spanza"'s position indicates right-wing oligarch-positive. A complete amnesia about pre-Chavez Venezuela, and a complete amnesia about the 2002 coup faction's violence against Chavez supporters.

[spanza]

57. How can you say that?

You speak without any basis. What does indicate my position is "right-wing oligarch-positive"? What are you saying about pre-Chavez Venezuela? In which side was I in 2002?
Why don't you ask instead of making reactionary allegations? Have you ever been to Venezuela?

Everything about troubledamerican's position indicates "uninformed judgmental fascist".

[ChangoLoa]

69. Relax dude

you remind me a character in Dr. Strangelove. Hold your arm there!

[Peace Patriot]

36. The CIA/USAID-funded "opposition" in Venezuela got exactly nowhere with their

coup plots and assassination plots and civil war plots, and are most notable for suspending the Constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights, when they grabbed power by kidnapping Chavez. Then they started screaming that Chavez was violating their rights. They haven't been able to put a dent in his popularity. In fact, it's increased with every one of their fascist schemes! So now they're claiming to be LEFTISTS!

LOL!

:rofl:

[spanza]

42. You can't say the "opposition" kidnapped Chavez

The opposition is anyone who doesn't support Chavez, that's it. Concerning your sarcasm about the "opposition" claiming to be leftist, you're just showing how ignorant you are. It's like your republicans saying the "opposition" against them was anti-patriotic, patriot.

You've never even been to Venezuela and you speak with so much arrogance and sufficiency about us. You get your information from sites showing the head of Chavez in their front page and you come to sell it to us as impartial and objective information. Come on, you have little credibility when you do that.

Every time I say something about my country and its government, you immediately reply saying everything is false without even debating and calling murderers and fascists all venezuelans that don't support Chavez. You're not a liberal, you act like a propaganda agent in this case. But not a good one because you have no clue about that country. So if you want to defend Chavez, it's cool, but try to debate in a constructive way. Otherwise, you'll be hurting Chavez.

I will quote you:

"No, (the people from the venezuelan opposition) love the Honduran junta. That's the kind of government they want--one that makes them rich and kills and brutalizes and silences the poor and their advocates. They want that in Venezuela. And so does El (non-) Universal!"

You live in a movie man! And you say all that when you've never even bothered coming to my country!

I will quote what a DUer from Venezuela told you because I feel lazy to keep on writing to you (it's useless!):

"You disqualify before you even try to understand. That is called propaganda.

How can you say the students in jail are right wing rioters? What supports that claim of yours? You're just repeating the exact words of Comandante, when he wants to describe Venezuela like a country simply divided between fascism and revolutionaries, which is a machiavelic lie. Wouldn't it be convenient for him to have a 100% nazi opposition he could fight against freely? Things are never black and white and you know that. I know that these students who were put in jail are from very diverse political backgrounds. Some are social(democrata)cristianos, some are socialdemocratas, some are left-radicals and some are socialists. That is the entire political 'spectrum' in Venezuela. You obviously don't know the country.

When you put 167 students and 350 union leaders in the same bag, calling them "thugs" without having studied all their cases minutiously and individually, you are acting exactly like what you call "rightwing hypocrites" who "have NO respect for human rights, civil rights, the rule of law or Constitutional government". You say this 500 people are GUILTY without even knowing who they are or what they did. You sound just like a fascist tribunal.

I suggest you try to read about our history and our socio political structures before making other comments concerning our actual situation. Just as a suggestion."

Good suggestion I think.

[EFerrari]

49. The big fat gaping holes in your knowledge make me think

the closest you've ever been to Venezuela is a sympathy kegger for Primero Justicia in D.C.

:rofl:

[spanza]

63. Why would you judge without knowing?

I've already told you I am a liberal socialist. Primero Justicia are demo-cristians and you know that I don't agree with them at all. Are you trying to be provocative?

About you mentioning that I'm not venezuelan in such a manner, you know it's just pathetic. Try to speak about issues and not about other people, it's very reactionary.

[Braulio]

67. Testing, Testing

Since I'm neutral, I'll test both of you:

For the American:

1. Who was the shortstop when the Met won the world series in 1969?
2. What's the name of the plane used by the USA to drop the atomic bomb over Hiroshima?
3. What's the name of Michael Jackson's rat?

If you can't answer these questions, then you aren't American.

For the Venezuelan:

1. What's better for breakfast, an arepa with ham and cheese, or a hamburguer?
2. Who is the star of Alo Presidente?
3. What's the name of the tall mountain chain in Venezuela?

If you can't answer these questions, then you aren't Venezuelan

[Judi Lynn]

77. They always really know how to have a good time!

http://www.clicket.com.nyud.net:8090/images_sr/pe300612.jpg

http://www.sore-primerojusticia.org.nyud.net:8090/images/logo.png

[Braulio]

68. White Skinned?

I thought all Venezuelans were black dudes. Or was that Haiti?

[bitchkitty]

59. That, and because Venezuela has oil. n/t

[EFerrari]

30. Then how lucky we are that you see fit to share your gratiutious venom with us.

:)

[troubledamerican]

46. Detesting Chavez generally is rooted in "with-us-or-against-us" kneejerk anti-"Latin Left"ism

[spanza]

16. Who are these 2?

Could you name them, please?

[Bumblebee]

21. Now I see why you like Chavez. Great logic. We don't like Chavez so we must love DeMint!

No other possibility. Your world -- like Chavez' -- is so black and white.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Some people side with the elites against the poor and dispossed

We see that in this country a lot, except that in this country, the elites suceeded in turning the working class against itself.

[Bumblebee]

37. oh, yes, and such individuals should be purged as enemies of the people.

Where do I report to a camp? Do you sometimes stop and think, or you really have just a one-track leninist mind?

[EFerrari]

39. I don't think camp wants you.

lol

[Ken Burch]

28. There isn't an antichavista Left in Venezuela. And there aren't any Venezuelans of color

who want the conservatives back in.

[spanza]

43. Things are pure black and white in your world

which means no one should ever listen to you.

I am not pro-Chavez
I have always voted socialist
My skin is dark

Enough said?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bitchkitty]

60. Always voted Socialist where?

Do tell.

[spanza]

62. In Venezuela

But I have to admit that I even voted maoist once (I was pissed off).

Do you know about political parties in Venezuela? Which one do you like?

[bitchkitty]

65. Ah! Do you know Summermoondancer? n/t

[spanza]

66. ?!

Eh?

I answered your question, you don't want to answer mine?

[ChangoLoa]

70. So obviously you don't know anything about venezuelan parties

Do try in wiki...:)

[bitchkitty]

72. Do you know Summermoondancer?

For the record, I didn't reply because I'm not interested in that conversation.

I am left. Hard left. I support Hugo Chavez. That's all you need to know.

[ChangoLoa]

73. I'm not interested in a conversation about a supermoondancer

[spanza]

74. Demasiado cursi

[bitchkitty]

75. Herramienta n/t

[spanza]

79. Mucho gusto, Herramienta

Yo soy Sergio. Y el "demasiado cursi" se referia al summermoondancer, no a ti.

[ChangoLoa]

82. y como lo apoyas gringa con telepatia o le escribes cartas? pja

[bitchkitty]

83. ¿Qué carajo te importa? n/t

[ChangoLoa]

84. Insulta y se pica

Idólatra, vuelve a tu rebaño. Si fueras "hard left", pantallera, no tendrías ningún gobierno que apoyar en esta tierra.

[Braulio]

81. Provincial governor and Caracas city major won by opposition

Your comments are very interesting. So the elections won by the opposition late last year were won by pro-Chavez government opponents? LOL

[Ken Burch]

19. They can't handle the fact that he's one ot two democratic and INDEPENDENT leaders in Latin America

The other being Evo Morales.

The "moderate social democrats" the Du antichavistas people prefer all put the bankers before the people. Never mind that history showed that you can't have fiscal conservatism AND social justice and that tight budgets only serve the rich.

[WriteDown]

53. May not be illnesss, Polonium or Dioxin come to mind...

Especially after his recent dealings with Putin.

[Ken Burch]

23. Chavez isn't evil

It's just that, unlike you, he sees the poor as human beings and he doesn't put the bankers first.

[bitchkitty]

58. Pure, callous evil.

Thank you - just the thing I want to see on Democratic Underground at 6:30 a.m.

[onehandle]

6. I'm sure China will pay close attention. nt

[Braulio]

15. Why?

Why would China pay close attention to Chavez' health? If he gets sick and dies, they'll keep on selling their goodies to Venezuela. As a matter of fact, they will probably sell more junk if Venezuela gets a capitalist replacement and Walmart enters the Venezuelan market.

[onehandle]

33. China is loaning arms (missiles for a start) to Venezuela to fuck with us.

China is our real enemy.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Who is 'us'? What's this neocon bullshit about 'our enemies'?

The only enemies of the working class are the elites and the corporations they own.

[harmonicon]

44. +1

However, I often get the feeling that a lot of people around DU are not only non-working class, but actually have a deep-seated hatred for the working class - notice how insults like "redneck" and "trailer trash" get bandied about on here. Heaven forbid that someone be poor and live in a rural area.

[IndianaGreen]

51. Notice that the poster not only rewrote his post, but changed his avatar to Ted Kennedy!

Our dear chameleon thinks we didn't notice.

[Judi Lynn]

56. Ha! That's real proof he's a librul! I know I trust the guy now, f'r damn sure!

Maybe he was actually looking for a suitable image of this guy:

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/11/schinemcc.jpg

In memory of the Republicans' greatest patriot.
Dead of alcoholism after making a true ass of himself.

[Braulio]

64. Let me try to understand your logic

I'm a little confused, so please bear with me. Say Chavez gets the stomach flu, or has a hangover (whatever), so he cancels his TV show. China is going to watch this closely because they (China) are selling weapons to Chavez? That's wrong. China doesn't sell weapons to Chavez, Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine do. China sells their usual exports, from vehicles to plastic toys.

Also, I don't think Chavez is buying weapons to mess with the USA. It should be evident Venezuela lacks the population and economy to tangle with the Americans. Purchasing high speed Sukhoi fighter bombers just doesn't make sense for Venezuela, but it sure makes sense if you want some prestige and a happy Air Force.

If I were Chavez, I would purchase Brazilian planes, slow moving but cheap and tough, designed for counterinsurgency warfare over jungle terrain, Russian helicopter troop transports, and coastal patrol boats. Otherwise funds should be devoted to reduce the crime rate and improve the health service, that would do a lot more to get him the popular support he's starting to lose.

[Judi Lynn]

76. Spend more time reading, and less time giving everyone the benefit of your

opinion before you actually know about the subject:

China boosts weapons ties with Venezuela, Brazil
Published: Nov. 7, 2008 at 1:28 PM
By ANDREI CHANG

HONG KONG, Nov. 7 (UPI) -- Alongside their military deals, the People's Republic of China and the South American nations of Venezuela and Brazil have been cooperating extensively in the oil industry.

In May 2008 the Venezuelan News Press reported that China Petrochemical Corp., or Sinopec, was signing a billion-dollar contract with Venezuela's state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela -- PDVSA. The contract provides for the joint establishment of a large refinery in China's southern province of Guangdong.

In 2007 Sinopec and Petroleos de Venezuela announced they would jointly invest $10 billion to develop Venezuela's Orinoco oil field. During his visit to China in 2006, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez already signed an oil contract worth $11 billion with the Beijing government. It was after this visit that Chavez made the surprise announcement that he wanted to import J-10A fighters from China.

In 2007 China imported from Venezuela around 4 million tons of crude oil. Though this is not a huge quantity, it is part of China's strategy to increase cooperation with Latin American countries and diversify its sources of crude oil. China already has obtained the rights to develop 15 oil fields in Venezuela.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2008/11/07/China-boosts-weapons-ties-with-Venezuela-Brazil/UPI-18111226082522/

[ChangoLoa]

78. This article says Braulio is right

It says China is developping oil projects with Venezuela and airplane projects with Brazil, in spite of the title, which is probably the only thing people read.

"Spend more time reading, and less time giving everyone the benefit of your opinion before you actually know about the subject": Exactly!

[Braulio]

80. Well, that article doesn't say much about weapons

It's mostly about Venezuelan oil deals with Chinese corporations - which haven't amounted to much. PDVSA always signs refinery deals, but they don't follow through. They've had a hell of a time getting refinery projects in Venezuela done, and they have been negotiating with Petrobras for years to take a share in the Pernambuco refinery in Brazil, but as far as I know the deal is still on the table.

I am curious, though, can you find something solid about China selling weapons to Venezuela? I sure haven't seen much.

[Mudoria]

12. I'll bet the CIA was behind it!

[RedCloud]

29. Much ado about nothing, Just El Nacional being El Nacional.

[IndianaGreen]

31. H1N1 virus is hitting Latin America hard

The Cubans have taken extraordinary efforts to produce and distribute a vaccine to counter the pandemic.

[Vidar]

55. I wish him well.