Clinton urges condemnation of Honduran action

[flamingdem]

WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the action taken against Honduras' president should be condemned by everyone.

She says Honduras must embrace the principles of democracy and respect constitutional order.

The president, Manuel Zelaya, was flown to Costa Rica after being taken into military custody at his house outside the Honduran capital.

He was detained shortly before voting was to begin on a constitutional referendum the president had insisted on holding. The Supreme Court had ruled it illegal and everyone from the military to Congress and members of his own party opposed it.

[Judi Lynn]

1. Very good news. Very very much better than we were expecting. Thank you. n/t

[flamingdem]

2. It's a sea change..

.. but of course it will take time to believe it!

After all we're friends with Hugo "I smell sulfite" Chavez again.

Some common ground found and built upon thanks to the principles
for the most part being adhered to by our president and Hillary.

[subcomhd]

3. WOW

Right wing military overthrows left-wing president and the US condems it. Yes, this is the change I can believe in. Now, Hillary needs to turn the screws on the bastards.

[EFerrari]

4. You go, Hillary!

:applause:

:woohoo:

[EFerrari]

5. Is there a link?

Thanks!

[subcomhd]

6. Full Statement, pretty good

The action taken against Honduran President Mel Zelaya violates the precepts of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, and thus should be condemned by all. We call on all parties in Honduras to respect the constitutional order and the rule of law, to reaffirm their democratic vocation, and to commit themselves to resolve political disputes peacefully and through dialogue. Honduras must embrace the very principles of democracy we reaffirmed at the OAS meeting it hosted less than one month ago.

[magbana]

7. But, it ain't over until the Real Fat Lady Sings and that's Obama . . .

Both Hillary and Amb. Lloren have made very good, strong statements which will serve as place holders. The OAS decision today to reject the coup is important and hard for anyone to refute. But, Obama is the only one who can consolidate the northern american consensus. For instance, I just did a quick google to see if the US' little brother, the Canadian gov't. in Ottawa, has said anything. Nada.

Tomorrow should be an interesting day. In the end, whether Obama makes a statement or not and what he says if he does may not be very illuminating about what's going down in Honduras and, therefore, not intended to be so.

[Abq_Sarah]

8. Wasn't President Zelaya

Violating their Constitution? Wouldn't that mean Honduras was respecting their constitutional order?

[magbana]

9. Let's Say Zelaya was violating Honduran constitution, there is a

process to investigate that and hold Zelaya responsible. I doubt there is a clause in the Honduran constitution that says you can kidnap the democratically-elected president no matter what he has done. The people who committed this kidnapping/golpe de estado have committed TREASON. In most countries, treasonous offenses land you in jail for the rest of your life and, in some instances, result in being executed.

These right wing golpistas thought they were playing a game, but they have just walked into the nightmare of their lives.

[EFerrari]

10. They've been condemned by everyone and

Telesur has the Venezuelan public on camera encouraging Honduras to hit the streets.

[Abq_Sarah]

11. Okay, it's a given

That Zelaya acted illegally between the referendum and firing the head of the Army for not carrying out an unconstitutional referendum. That said, from what I have read, the Honduran legislative body impeached him and the high court ordered his arrest. Why would his arrest result in a deportation to Costa Rica? Getting rid of him seems to be legal but the way it was carried out seems odd, to say the least.

[magbana]

12. no it is not a given that Zelaya acted unconstitutionally, illegally.

You are looking for reasons for the coupsters to do what they are doing and all the reasons given are propaganda. The real reason all this is going down is that the US cannot afford another left (kinda) president in Central America. the Honduran military is owned lock, stock and barrel by the US gov't. This has been in the planning for a while.

Why Costa Rica? The only country that the US fully trusts in Latin America is Costa Rica. Getting a democratically-elected president out of his country and away from the majority of citizens who support him is standard, classic coup d'etat strategy. When I heard Zelaya was being taken to Costa Rica, I knew the US was up to its armpits in it.

[Bacchus39]

14. Zelaya is in Nicaragua now

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-06-29-voa8.cfm

and he had very low support. what's wrong with Costa Rica anyway? it sounds like Costa Rica really didn't mind him leaving for Nicaragua.

[Abq_Sarah]

16. It is a given.

Here is a link to their constitution:

http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html

[EFerrari]

13. It's not a given and the people are holding a general strike today.

This was a coup.

[Abq_Sarah]

17. This action

Was legal according to the Honduran Constitution. That doesn't meet the definition of a coup.

[EFerrari]

24. Billy posted links to resources you might want to look at.

It wasn't legal in any way.

[EFerrari]

28. This is what the military ITSELF is saying:

He said the country's Congress had appointed a commission Thursday evening to
investigate whether the president's referendum was in line with the
constitution. The commission reported back Sunday afternoon that the
president had violated the constitution, and the Congress voted to remove
him. That procedure is "within the constitution," said the senior
official -- although the coup that occurred hours earlier was not, he
acknowledged.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x16877

[subsuelo]

15. I know the honduran supreme court called the referendum illegal, but

First of all, the vote is non-binding.

Second, what is curious to me is this -- what possible harm can come from gauging public support for or against Zelaya's proposed changes? Why does the Honduran establishment want so desperately to ensure that vote never happened? Going so far as to kidnap and remove Zelaya and declare a new president in his place?

[Abq_Sarah]

18. The Honduran constitution

Isn't what I'd chose if I were writing it but it was done for a reason and that reason was a stable government. It is illegal and can result in a loss of citizenship to publicly incite, encourage or support the reelection of the President.

[subsuelo]

19. holding a referedum that merely gauges public support for or against certain changes

is hardly a threat to government stability.

Unless 'stability' means retaining power for certain members of the establishment. Isn't that what this comes down to?

The real fear is the Great Beast of Public Opinion.

[Abq_Sarah]

20. It was illegal

Under their laws. He was told it was illegal and he tried to get the military to hold the vote. The military refused, citing the law so Zelaya fired the head of the military and had his supporters break into military buildings to get the ballots. The Honduran legislature and high court had enough and ordered him removed.

[subsuelo]

21. The establishment Zelaya was up against ruled it illegal, yes

That isn't my question however.

The question - what possible harm can come from gauging public opinion on whether to hold a Constituent National Assembly that will approve a new political constitution in the next election?

[Bacchus39]

22. the court ruled it illegal, what part of that don't you understand?

although its obvious here that most here think that power only resides in presidents to do whatever they please. forget courts and congresses, what good are they?

[subsuelo]

23. Um, hello? I've acknowledge that, twice now

And you ask me what part I'm not understanding? When you obviously haven't read a word I've said? Wow


Once again, here's the question I'm asking:

What possible harm can come from gauging public opinion towards possible changes to the country's constitution?

[EFerrari]

26. None. Because even if the whole process played out

it couldn't in time to re-elect Zelaya. This argument is bs.

[Bacchus39]

27. again, the Court ruled it illegal. the president can't just do anything he wants

obstensibly anyway. in Venezuela and Cuba its different of course.

[EFerrari]

25. This is the argument the right wing is using. It's flawed

and every observing wold body disagrees with the spin.

[Abq_Sarah]

29. Goodness!

You speak for "every observing world body"!

I had no idea Hugo Chavez was posting here this week. :sarcasm: