Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Chavez cuts budget over oil price

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Places » Latin America Donate to DU
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:04 AM
Original message
Chavez cuts budget over oil price
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has unveiled a series of measures to offset falling oil revenues that account for about 50% of the national budget.

He proposed to cut the 2009 budget by 6.7% and increase sales taxes.

Mr Chavez also pledged salary cuts for senior public officials, but a 20% rise in the minimum wage.

His announcement came shortly after the government had sent army to take control of the country's key airports and sea ports.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7957536.stm

I'm not sure of the source of BBC's news this weekend. There was some strange wording ref the last para above here :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3794204&mesg_id=3794204
Ohrases like "rubber stamped sound more like our Labour party here in the UK. maybe soemthing got distorted in translation ?

In other news :

Unemployment Falls in Venezuela

Caracas, Mar 20 (Prensa Latina) The president of the National Statistics Institute of Venezuela, Elias Eljuri informed that, in spite of the world economic crisis, unemployment has been reduced in Venezuela in 2009.

Dropping from 15.2 percent in February of 1999 to 7.4 percent for the same period of 2009, it is the lowest since the labor force began being evaluated on a monthly basis.

The rate of employment in February of 2009 was 92.6 percent, slightly more than last year's 92.4 percent.

This means an increase of 264,355 more jobs, which broken down by gender is 752 men and 139,613 women. nm/acl/joe/avp/mf

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={26541675-D51F-42EE-B148-8A688854DA6D}&language=EN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very interesting. They've got a lot of money in reserves, too, as a cushion against disaster,
hopefully.

Thanks for the articles.

Good to know their employment is improving, as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. He´s in trouble
With falling gas prices he will lose his butt. Also, if drugs are legalized he will be in real trouble. Chavez has a little dirty secret about Cocaine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Oh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Simon Romero, is that you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Who is Simon Romero?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. He's a very gifted writer of fiction who works for the empire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ah
ok so I will have to check into him. No I am not him, but I am an advocate for immigrant rights, Hispanic/Latino civil rights and am very involved in Latin American politics. I am a reformed Republican shall we say...;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So, are you in Honduras now or home? I'm very curious about
how you met your husband.

I have family both here in California and in El Salvador. We're all over the map politically.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am in Honduras
I have been here since January 2007. I met him in South Carolina right after he left Honduras we have been married for almost 15 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Congratulations to you two. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thank you
He has made this the best fifteen years of my life. I used to be a Republican, hard core rwinger. Life and him changed me a little at a time. He is middle of the road, but watching the utter cruelty that some of the so called Christian right wingers showed toward him changed me and I no longer believe they are compassionate about anything but themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. After your unsupported comments on Chavez, I'm a little afraid to ask, because
I would like accurate, fact/experience-based, on-the-ground info on the political situation in Honduras. I know Honduras' horrific history as the launching pad for Reaganite death squads into Nicaragua and El Salvador, but it seems to have a better government now, and I know several things about the president, Manuel Zelaya: a) that he was not happy with the Bushwhacks, b) that he brought Honduras into the Bushwhack-negotiated CAFTA, but has also visited Cuba on trade missions, and c) that he joined ALBA, the Chavez inspired and organized barter trade group.

Could you give us your perception of where Honduras is heading politically? How would you describe the current president (left, center-left, etc.)? Honduras is now sandwiched in by leftist or progressive left-center governments (left-Nicaragua, left-El Salvador, progressive left-center, Guatemala). Will this influence Honduran elections? How are the Bushwhack CAFTA, and the Chavez trade group ALBA, working out in Honduras?

My objections to your comments on Chavez are these...

"He´s in trouble. With falling gas prices he will lose his butt.

It seems to me, based on vast reading, that the Chavez government has prepared Venezuela quite well for drops and fluctuations in oil prices, and for the Bushwhack's Financial 9/11. They have $42 billion in international cash reserves, for instance. Employment has improved in 2009, and Venezuela is coming off a period of sustained and remarkable economic growth over the last five years, with the most growth in the private sector, not including oil. The Chavez government has also concentrated on education, on bootstrapping the poor in various ways, on land reform/food security, local manufacturing and local and regional infrastructure. The oil revenues couldn't have been better spent, to overcome decades of malfeasance and corruption by rightwing governments, and to prepare Venezuela for the future. And the government's response to the current Bushwhack, worldwide economic meltdown has been quicker and more progressive than any other government in the world.

So, why do you say "he will lose his butt"? What do you mean? What do you base that statement on?


"Also, if drugs are legalized he will be in real trouble. Chavez has a little dirty secret about Cocaine."

Cocaine is not going to be legalized any time soon, here, or in Venezuela, or anywhere else. Bolivia has legalized coca leaf chewing and tea drinking--a traditional indigenous medicine--but that is far, far different than cocaine production, and its attendant crime, which both Venezuela and Bolivia strongly oppose.

Secondly, what are you talking about--re: "Chavez has a little dirty secret about Cocaine"? He gets gifts of coca leaves from Evo Morales. That does not mean that he is a cokehead, or dealer, or profiting in any way from the cocaine trade. Apples and oranges. Frankly, I think it is the Bush Cartel that has "a little (big) dirty secret about Cocaine." Wherever the Bushwhack "war on drugs" went, there cocaine traffic, weapons traffic and crime increased. (Colombia, Mexico, Peru.) So you are going to have to prove this to me. What do you mean? And what are you basing it on?

--------

And welcome to DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. My perspective.
First the dirty little secret is he and Evo Morales are trafficking cocaine..yes, he is...they aren´t opposed to it they are dead set on using it to destroy the US. Why do I say this? Well, in the area of Colon we have found FOUR Venezuelan aircrafts loaded with cocaine. This is easily substantiated by just reading www.laprensahn.com you can search for the articles there. They are in Spanish though. You can also read many things you don´t see in US news there.
How do I know they were Venezuelan? well they had the banner on them..and Chavez controls these planes leaving Venezuela.
As far as Zelaya goes, no I don´t like him so you might not agree when I say he hasn´t provided a more stable government in fact he has destabilized the government and it was much more stable under Ricardo Maduro and the others before him. Zelaya..well I don´t know if you know this but he isn´t much of an environmentalist..in fact his father was accused of killing priests and other environmental protesters and dumping them in the well in their front yard. Somewhere here I have posted the link to that story. It happened June 1975. Now he is trying to reform the constitution and sit permanently when he had swore in public that he would not do that...and ´golpe de estado´looks like it is on the horizon if he tries it because even his party candidates disagree with his actions. He isn´t very popular...in comparison terms he is less popular here than Bush was in the US. If he was left of center that would be ok, but he isn´t he is a communist.

You claim my statements are unsubstantiated, but they aren´t I get face forward information on Chavez and he is even less popular here than Zelaya. People don´t like him here and they do not trust him. He promotes taking things from people that they worked their entire lives for.
He hasn´t assisted Honduras in the least and his ALBA is all show and games it is very little action...in fact the 100 tractors...well they ended up on Zelaya´s hacienda land...go figure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. good to hear from someone in the know n/t
s
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If anyone is trying to destroy the US with the cocaine biz, it ain't Morales and Chavez
It is the CIA, which since the 1970's, has been coordinating the influx of drugs into the US targeting urban areas (read black). Drugs heading for Europe are routed through West Africa and the guys flying it there are Colombian thugs. If you're looking for a head of state to crap on concerning involvement in the drug biz, shed a little light on Alvaro Uribe -- he has hands on drug experience going back years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Difference is
that now Columbia has a leader that is tough on drug smugglers and tends to extradite them to the US for punishment. Before they were the leaders...but Bolivia and Venezuela both grow the coca plant. Evo made it pretty clear that he was going to export cocaine to the US and that he didn´t give a flip what they thought.

The CIA at one time had heavy involvement but I don´t think they are pulling puppet strings now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I see that my rule of thumb on the Miami Herald and other corpo/fascist 'news' sources--
that one can generally assume that the opposite of what they say is the truth--holds for your posts as well.

Too bad. I was hoping to get real information, not fascist gossip. I welcome alternative views, and I will always consider the views of someone with whom I disagree, if their views are based on facts, credible sources and/or convincing personal experience. Nothing of what you said above meets these simple criteria for a good conversation or debate. "Chavez controls these planes leaving Venezuela." Right. Prove it. In fact, we just found out that Chavez had no control over Venezuela's seaports and regional airports, since they only came under federal control a few days ago. The ports have been controlled by the state governors, many of whom are rightwingers, and coup plotters. So, if cocaine is leaving regional airports, we can probably thank a corrupt rightwing governor for that.

Your rightwing drivel has a sort of short-term pathological fascination. Beyond that, I've lost interest in your views. They teach me nothing except how disinformed some people are. I know a lot about Chavez, and your wild, unsupported accusation that he has a "little dirty secret about Cocaine" tells me that I cannot trust your views about Zelaya. I hope your trip to this progressive forum is a short one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. the Chavistas control all but 5 governorships
you seem threatened by someone who is quite a bit more knowledgeable than you "pobre ignorante". I love it when the Chavistas attempt to argue with someone who actually lives or has experience in Latin America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
53. How recently won were they? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. So glad to see this information. I didn't read the article you've mentioned,
but what you've said can be remembered long after this thread, as it applies to other right-wing concoctions which have been circulating for ages in their attempt to lay the blame for activity EVERYONE knows is tied directly to the Colombian narco-trafficking paramilitary deathsquad maggots at the feet of Hugo Chavez.

The area next to Colombia is not only infested by right-wing scumball landowning monsters who hire Colombian death squad scum to slaughter Venezuelan campesinos attempting to start their own small farms, but it's also used by Colombian traffickers. When anyone opts to claim Hugo Chavez is involved in this right-wing narcotrafficking, they're assuming people here aren't going to know the difference between what they're saying and the truth!

Simply amazing. YES, it's just as you say, whatever could EVER have happened involving the ports in that area would have never involved Hugo Chavez as they've been under the control of the diseased, terminally, virulently corrupt opposition until right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Judi
the ports were siezed a month ago by him...since then we have been finding Venezuelan planes and boats loaded with drugs..explain how it is right wing when he has been in control for how long? He siezed the ports and now we find their boats and planes in the areas of Colon ...
check out www.laprensahn.com They are the local paper here..and drugs here in Latin America aren´t about right wing or left wing politics...they are about greed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Chavez seized the ports four days ago on 3/21--BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7957475.stm

"State governments in Venezuela have controlled the country's most important airports, sea ports and major highways since a move towards decentralisation began some 20 years ago, the AFP news agency says.

"Many of the facilities seized on Saturday have since then fallen under the jurisdiction of state governments often hostile to Mr Chavez."


------

So your story is a lie, Summermoondancer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Truly interesting information, Peace Patriot. Very relative to the conversation.
Also from the article you've located:
Correspondents say the ports provide them with an important source of local revenue - and the removal of this revenue will now make the localities more reliant on central government funding.

Power struggle


Soldiers were dispatched to ports in three states governed by Mr Chavez's opponents on Saturday - Zulia, Carabobo and Nueva Esparta.

They were also moving into Anzoategui, governed by an ally.
Not too much there which can be read any other way, after all.

Plain as day. Thank you, very much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. No Communism is what it is called..not liberal ideas whatsoever
I am surprised that you are a communist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. Here we go.
Edited on Fri Jun-19-09 06:30 PM by Billy Burnett
I am surprised that you are a communist.

:rofl: Do much red baiting?

Love the refreshing Chavez = dictator angle too. :dunce: Nice touch.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Nope that is when you were told about it...we were told a month ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. He siezed both ports and airports over a month ago
or did you not know that? It isn´t facist it is a fact. Because you don´t like what the facts are doesn´t make them any less true. I can provide for you the Spanish languge newspapers here that speak about it if you like? It isn´t just me seeing this occur it is indeed occurring...we had five Venezuelans floating in the ocean here after their plane crash landed in Colon...they didn´t just appear out of nowhere and Venezuelan planes weren´t what we were finding before he siezed the ports and airports.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. I guess you haven't heard of the National Endowment for Democracy, but ...
I suggest you study up on it. The NED interferes in the affairs of other countries through two distinct routes: elections and media manipulation. The copy you read in right wing media (the Latin American media is a particularly virulent strain)comes straight from CIA and State Dept. wonks in Washington. No longer is it fashionable to assassinate a leader outright --soft coups are the way now. Defame the leader and, most especially, accuse him/her of drug trafficking. It didn't work with Fidel and it's not going to work with Chavez or Morales, no matter how much you try. Are you sure you are not in Langley, VA?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. So you agree with
them taking an authoritarian stance and becoming dictators? This isn´t about right or left it is about free right to elect the leader of choice whether it be a left or right winger...and the press here isn´t as right wing as you think they are. They elected Zelaya but the constitution is what is being asked to be respected...he wants to stay permenently and I voted for Obama in the states, but I can say this...I don´t want him to trash the constitution of the US and try to stay in power for good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. "...taking an authoritarian stance and becoming dictators"--Chavez and Morales?
Prove it. How are they "dictators"? Whom have they oppressed, silenced, jailed unfairly, tortured, killed? No one! Both have been elected in transparent, honest, above-board, internationally monitored elections. Both have 60% to 70% approval ratings. Neither has broken a single law. Both have been scrupulously democratic and constitutional on their actions. Both encourage maximum citizen participation in government and politics. But run good governments that attend to the interests of all of their people, not just the rich.

Who does the oppression, silence, jailing unfairly, torturing and killing in South America? Not the leftist leaders of Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay nor their center-left allies Brazil or Chile. It is the rightwingers and fascists who kill and torture and silence and jail. It was the rightwingers and fascists in Venezuela who canceled the Constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights, in their declaration of a junta in 2002. It was the rightwingers and fascists who rioted, sacked government and NGO buildings, beat up the indigenous, blew up a gas pipeline and machine gunned some 30 unarmed peasant farmers in Bolivia this last September.

Who are the "dictators"? WHO ARE THE 'DICTATORS'?!

----------------------

"I don´t want him to trash the constitution of the US and try to stay in power for good."

Our own Franklin Delano Roosevelt ran for and won four terms in office. He was "president for life." Why? Not because he was a "dictator"--which the rightwing of that era called him--but because he was elected and re-elected by the people. It was the Republicans in the 1950s who rammed through the term limit on the president so that no "New Deal" could ever happen here again. Our own Founders opposed term limits as undemocratic. There is no reason on earth why the people shouldn't be able to vote for whomever they want and need in office.

Now tell me this: How is a national vote, in a free and fair election, in Venezuela, lifting the term limits on the president, the governors and other officials, "trashing the Constitution"? The people voted for it, as provided for in the Constitution.

I cannot trust you on Zelaya or anything else. You are so full of fascist "talking points" as to be a walking/talking Miami Herald! You simply ignore, or don't know, the facts about Chavez or Morales. Well, there are plenty of fascists in Venezuela and Bolivia who sound just like you. Being there doesn't make them any less fascist. They are just like the Bushwhack supporters here--greedy, selfish, stupid, blind, callous and hypocritical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Chavez has killed those who oppose him
he has jailed people and murdered those who were openly against him, he siezed the newspapers, televion stations, and radio...he also has now siezed the ports and airports...he also has a continuous government...when there are no more elections and you sit there for life that makes you a dictator.

BTW, even the Liberals here are against what Zelaya is proposing it is extraconstitutional. I find it ironic that someone can claim to be Liberal but spout communist ideals...they aren´t the same thing. Liberals still believe in democracy and free elections. They don´t believe in taking people´s private property and making it government. Zelaya wants to reform the constitution for continuism and to establish a Cuba type plan, which means that everyone work for the state and is given a coupon book...does that sound like liberal ideas to you or communist ones?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Summermoondancer, you sound like the far right nutters who claim that Obama
isn't a U.S. citizen. Your allegations are wild, off the charts, and wholly without foundation. But I am becoming more interested in your views. I was put off and bored at first--because I've heard it all here at DU. But now you're teaching me what the people of Latin America are dealing with, in their amazing and largely successful efforts to establish democracy, good government and social justice. They are dealing with rightwing nutters who simply cannot accommodate themselves to the facts--for instance, that Venezuela has the most transparent election system in the western hemisphere--far, FAR more transparent than our own. Either that, or they are just cynical liars. With you--because of the way your write--I think it's blindness, rather than maliciousness.

Did you know that our own FDR ran for and won four terms in office? The rightwing called him a "dictator," too--because he helped the poor with the "New Deal." If you are interested in facts, you can easily find out that Hugo Chavez is doing nothing more and nothing less than that--a "New Deal" for the poor majority of Venezuela. And that poor majority just voted overwhelmingly, in a transparent election, to lift terms limits on the president and other offices, so Chavez and others can run for office again--not seize office, get re-elected. It's no different than here, prior to the 1950s, when the Republicans rammed through a term limit on the president, so that there could be no "New Deal" here ever again. That was their motive. No more FDRs! Our own Founders considered terms limits undemocratic, because they felt that the people should be able to elect whomever they want and need in public office.

Chavez hasn't "seized the newspapers, television stations, and radio." That is simply untrue. He denied a TV broadcast license renewal to ONE TV station, RCTV--an event that occurs routinely in other democratic countries. The airwaves are public property, and the government regulates their use. That is true here; that is true in Venezuela; that is true in most countries. RCTV was an active participant in the 2002 rightwing coup attempt. That is way more justification for denying them a license renewal than has occurred in other countries. Chavez had a right to do it, under the law, and plenty of cause to do it. And Venezuela is still replete with rightwing broadcasters on TV and radio (approx. 75% are rightwing, in some estimates I've seen), and at least half the newspapers are rightwing. You simply don't know what you are talking about. That's what I mean by "wild."

As for "private property," governments condemn peoples' "private property" and take it, all the time, in many countries, for various government projects (roads, baseball stadiums, and here for mere allegations of drug trafficking). Generally--as in Venezuela--compensation is paid. There has not been a single instance of the Chavez government taking anyone's private property without due process and without compensation. Venezuela has a huge problem of food insecurity, inflicted on the Chavez government by previous rightwing government mismanagement and malfeasance. They are trying to correct the problem by finding fallow farm lands and putting them back into food production, with a very intelligent, well thought out land reform program, that is in fact highly respectful of the Venezuelan Constitution's protection of private property. The Chavez government has been scrupulous about this--almost to a fault.

I don't know much about Zelaya, but if he is following the Venezuelan model, he won't be violating anyone's rights, or doing anything unfair or illegal. Venezuela's land reform program is not "communistic." They turn title of the government lands that they have restored to food production over to the families and farmer coops who produce the food, after a 5 year trial period. This is not centralized farming--a la Russia, China or Cuba. It is DE-centralized. And it is creating more private property. But perhaps you are talking about Exxon Mobil's property? Is that what you mean, in the sentence, "They don´t believe in taking people´s private property and making it government"? The "property" of a bloated monster like Exxon Mobil? Corporate "property"? What kind of property are you talking about?

As for multinational corporations, or absentee landlords of vast ranch estates that are not being farmed, while people starve--I believe in the sovereignty of the people. Corporations are mere business consortiums that do not have the rights of an individual person. They operate in a country only with the permission of the people of the country. This is theoretically true here, since corporations must be chartered. We have let our rights over corporations atrophy, but theoretically we can still pull their charters, dismantle them and seize their assets for the common good. That is democracy, not communism. It is our right as a sovereign people. Vast single individual landowners are a somewhat different matter, but I would say that national security is primary in the case of a country that is importing most of its food, and cannot sustain itself, while vast tracks of farmable land lay fallow, as real estate speculation or for whatever purpose. The breakup of large estates is justifiable in that situation--and, once again, Venezuela pays compensation, although they haven't done much private estate breakup. It's almost all been fallow government land, which has now become, or soon will become, the private property of the farmers (in small, food-producing land holdings).

I urge you to do some research on these issues before forming your opinions and expressing them at a forum where many people do their homework and know what they are talking about. You are just coming off as ignorant--so ignorant that it is a revelation to read your posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. You would be wrong I voted for Obama. I live in Latin America
not in the US. I also argued quite ademantly against the idiots who claim Obama wasn´t a natural born citizen.
My allegations are real..not wild and off the charts as you assume. What we Latin Americans have to deal with? Yes, I know what we have to deal with I LIVE IN HONDURAS..not in the US...did you somehow miss that?

Oh and you claim he hasn´t siezed the radios, newspapers, and television? Why did he say he had?
He himself said that he had nationalized them...and it was not a US paper I got my news from...I live in Honduras and I get my news sources here.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. It was not a month ago. It was four days ago.
"Soldiers were dispatched to ports in three states governed by Mr Chavez's opponents on Saturday - Zulia, Carabobo and Nueva Esparta. // They were also moving into Anzoategui, governed by an ally." --BBC 3/22/09

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7957475.stm

---------------

The map at the BBC article is a good visual, because it illustrates Venezuela's vulnerability to the U.S. 4th Fleet, which the Bushwhacks reconstituted in the Caribbean last summer, after trying to instigate a war between Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela. The U.S.A.F. has been doing illegal overflights of Venezuela's offshore islands near these port facilities. Venezuela's major oil reserves and facilities are located in Zulia on the Caribbean coast. Zulia's governor is a fascist and coup plotter. Lula da Silva has said that the U.S. 4th Fleet is also a threat to Brazil's offshore oil reserves, and recommended that South Americans create a common defense in the context of the new South American common market, UNASUR. All countries have now agreed to a common defense, but it is not in operation yet. This is one reason that Chavez took control of the ports. As president he is responsible for Venezuela's security, which is also the northern flank of the new common market. The other reason is that the fascist governors have been plotting a civil war, along the lines of the fascist civil war that the Bushwhacks funded/organized in Bolivia this last September--that is, splitting off the oil rich provinces into a fascist mini-state in control of the resources. Zulia and other right-wing governed states of Venezuela are vulnerable to this traitorous scheme.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Um no it was a month ago
you just recently heard about it in the US press he has had control of the ports for a month..it was in the paper over a month ago here in Honduras, he announced it on his last visit that was two weeks ago...don´t believe everything just happened that you see reported in the papers in the US...that is just when they told you about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. "Many of the facilities seized on Saturday...". --BBC 3/23/09.
Who am I to believe--the BBC or you?

"...you just recently heard about it in the US press."

Sorry, I don't rely on the U.S. press for news of the South American left. Only an idiot would do so.

---------------------

But perhaps you were referring to this:

Chavez to launch new state airline in Venezuela

CARACAS, Venezuela

President Hugo Chavez says his government plans to take over a Caracas-based airline and relaunch it as "social property."

Aeropostal Alas de Venezuela has been in state hands since late last year, when a raid on one of its owners uncovered 880 pounds (400 kilograms) of cocaine.

Chavez did not say Wednesday if he would nationalize the airline now or await the results of a drug trafficking case against Abdala, Alex and Basel Makled -- three brothers who own the carrier.

A conviction may let the government confiscate, rather than pay for, the airline.

Aeropostal was one of Venezuela's largest domestic air carriers and also flew to Miami.

Chavez's government already has one airline, Conviasa, which it founded in 2005.


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D975FU4G0.htm

-----------------------

Or this:

Venezuela Dismantles Seven Drug Labs Near Colombia Border

March 11th 2009, by EFE

CARACAS - The Venezuelan government said that it dismantled seven drug laboratories near the Colombian border, seizing 420 kilos of cocaine and coca paste.

Interior Minister Tarek El Aissami said on state television that no one was arrested in the operation because the labs were "a scant 300 meters (980 feet) from the Colombian border," which allowed the occupants to escape.

Authorities also confiscated a large quantity of chemicals used in transforming coca into cocaine, the minister said.

El Aissami said that this operation gives the lie to "falsehoods" in U.S. State Department reports faulting Venezuela's efforts in the war on drugs.

"With these results we show the world our determination and readiness to continue making progress in the head-on fight against drug trafficking," he said.

He recalled that the U.S., besides "lying" in its reports, is the chief consumer of illegal drugs in the world and the biggest producer of marijuana.

"We are victims of drug trafficking because we are in between the biggest drug-producing country (Colombia) and the main drug consumer (the U.S.), but that report still tries to blame us. But with these results we show who is really lying," El Aissami said.
(MORE)

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/newsbrief/4285

-----------------------

It seems to me that drug traffickers must be living in fear of the Chavez government taking control of their means of illicit transport. This and other facts about the Venezuelan government's anti-illicit drug trafficking actions and results point to their intolerance of the cocaine traffic, not their engaging in it.

The Miami mafia and its CIA protectors are no doubt furious that the "war on drugs" is finally working, now that it is in the hands of a good government (Venezuela's), and not the Bush Junta.

And please do notice the Chavez government's adherence to the Venezuelan Constitution on the protection of private property. (You also accused them of taking private property.) If the airline owners are not convicted, then the government cannot seize the airline without compensation. That is a stricter rule-of-law than our own. In the U.S., property can be seized without compensation in the mere allegation of drug trafficking.

Who has the "dictatorial" government, hm?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. He siezed them but he said it was going to happen a month ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Well, if he merely SAID it, but hadn't done it yet, then he could not have been trafficking
in Cocaine, as you allege, until four days ago. So, have you done any plane-spotting of Chavez's narco aircraft in the last four days?

Your allegation is absurd and wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Chavez has full control of his country and I dont just allege I know.
Remember I have a bit of a front row seat here...it is hard for the US to know because they don´t hear about the planes that are government planes that belong to Venezuela...if you think he wasn´t in charge of his private aircraft you have lost it...the planes belonged to the Venezuelan government...surely you know they had control of them right? They have a Venezuelan in custody here and he is running his mouth telling on Chavez...he also asked for asylum for fear he will be killed for talking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. You call anyone to left of Pinochet a communist
and use communism as an excuse for the most horrible crimes.

You minimize the horror of death squads.

You rationalize mass graves.

You repeat endless slanders about people you don't know and for which you have no proof.

You aren't a reformed Republican at all and your husband is one of the Contra War criminals.

God help you both.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Wrong and that is quite rude
first of all Contras are Nicaraguan or did you forget that? My husband is Honduran and got asylum in the US he never committed any war crimes as he refused basically to do such nonsense. So you talk about me yet you readily make a false accusation against my husband and can´t even figure out that Contras weren´t Honduran? Contras did indeed hold Miskitos hostage but they weren´t Honduran they were NICARAGUAN. There is a difference.
I don´t minimize the death squads I said what they were used for sorry that you don´t agree. I did say that they were used most recently to take gang members off the streets and with the justice system here in the shambles it is in that is perhaps a difficult pill for you to swallow but you have never had to live next to one of those murderous thugs and fear for your life either now have you? Of course not you call a twenty five year old gang member a child.
Never do you consider that this same MS 13 member has probably murdered over 20 people by the time he left his teen years yet he is still an innocent child...don´t say put him in jail either..it doesn´t work that way here...come on over and I will walk you around a dose of reality.
Oh and yes, I am quite reformed as far as immigration, racial equality, environmental issues, religion, and so forth..but I don´t have blinders on..here as I pointed out it isn´t Democrat or Republican there is no such thing here. IT is about reality...oh and btw Zelaya uses death squads too.
Communist isn´t about right or left to me it is about stealing land that doesn´t belong to you and it is about sitting in power when you weren´t elected to do so...it is about reforming the constitution without consulting with the public or congress. Talk to Zelaya about how he thinks he should deal with environmentalists like us...he thinks we should be murdered and dumped in a well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. some of the comments from La Prensa Honduras
about Zelaya´s reforms and Chavez, so that you can see it isn´t just me of the opinion.

I will also provide the link for you so you can see for yourself. As you can see not a single person agrees with him or Chavez...not even his own party. Michiletti is a liberal and he is the one that called him WRONG!

Jonathan Martienz 24.03.2009 08:00pm
Ratas dejen d hacer fraude ''' xD,, Deja d escuchar a esos locos d chaves y fidel´....... Locos y tramposos, preguntale primero al pueblo y dejate d pajas vaquero d octava,,, Lo unico bueno es k ya vas a dejar d robar...

ARMANDO LIOS 24.03.2009 08:00pm
BUENO DETRAS DE TODO ESTO ESTA CHAVES EVO ORTEGA Y EL MAESTRO DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS FIDEL CASTRO Y RAUL CASTRO SU IMPERIO SIGE VIVO MUCHOS O POCOS CONOSEMOS LA HISTORIA DEL PUEBLO CUBANO Y DE LO KE ESTA PASANDO VENEZUELA..PUEBLO HONDURENO DIGAMOS NO NO NO AL TITERE

jose 24.03.2009 03:02pm
Srs.Definitivamente ni la prensa,ni los politicos entienden,este plan obedece a una estrategia en que los poderes del Estado no cuentan,se convocara la consulta,se modificara la Constitucion,ya estan preparados los CK con los PD para callar algunas voces(poder judicial incluido)y se cambiaron los mandos militares por otros dociles al aspirante a Rey.El plan fue elaborado por Alejandro meses antes.

feo 24.03.2009 03:01pm
Mi pregunta es cual es el interes que tiene este coruupto, socialista de la cuarta urna, quiere hacer lo mismo que hizo chaves en Venezuela, esta bigoton delincuente esta asesorado por chaves,no le den oportunidad de eso de repente hacen fraude, en las urnas apareceran llenas de votos aunque nadie haya votado,mucho cuidado con este delincuente de quinta.

mario 24.03.2009 03:01pm
jaja y asta ahora se dan cuenta si esto asta los siegos lo saven que este presidentillo es mas burro clonado que nadie asi que solo con andar de isquierdista poniendo en rridiculo la democrasia que tenemos que hay en honduras asi que delen de baja y que deje de andar con jilipoyeses ya que de la parte de el quisiera ser un dictador ygual al loco de chaves ya que ortega evo morales y mel zelaya esta

http://www.laprensahn.com/País/Ediciones/2009/03/24/Noticias/El-presidente-Zelaya-esta-equivocado-Micheletti

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Summermoondancer, posting the remarks of right-wing readers is NOT providing proof
of anything factual.

Why would you bring right-wing comments to a Democratic message board, anyway? If we wanted to know what the right-wing "thinks," we'd simply waste our time reading for ourselves at places like that.

No one named "feo" is someone who's going to tell me what I need to know, thanks, anyway.

Signed,

"Now I've seen everything."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. you don't speak Spanish, so you don't know what the comments say anyway n/t
s
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I speak Spanish I live here.
so I assume that you were speaking about Judi...since she doesn´t speak Spanish I suppose I shoudl translate them but not a single one of them was friendly to what this fool is doing...it isn´t just right wingers that get upset when some fool tries to become a dictator against the will of the people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. yes, of course I meant her. You have two problems here with the Chavistas
the first is you are not a Chavez fanatic of course.

the second is you are knowledgeable of latin american. much more so than them.


also, keep in mind that this is a person who claimed a former Vice president of the United States who died in 1875 also served in the McKinley administration and wrote the Breckenridge memo concerning Cuba during the Spanish American war.

remember you are not dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I just was put off by
the assumption that my husband was Contra...when Contras were Nicaraguan...quite frankly the Honduran military was fed up with the whole mess and now are being demonized for defending their country from Sandinistas. Contras often wore Honduran uniforms not because Honduras wanted involved but because they wanted to deflect as to who they were. They were essentially stolen uniforms...yes, there were sympathizers to their cause, but the government tried to stay out of it as much as possible, but that is very difficult in a small country.
Also, of course I am not a Chavista...I am not Venezuelan and prefer that he keep his politics in his own country. I don´t particularly like it when my own country the US sticks their nose in the business of affairs here either, but I sure don´t like it when dictators come and inject their opinion when they have done very little for this country...what did he do? He gave 100 tractors to Zelaya...those tractors didn´t go to the people there was a lot of show and games,but no one poor got the use of them...they are sitting on his property in Catacamas.
It would have been nice if they had been given to poor farmers for use in each municipality via lottery or something to that nature.
There is something about some loans to for houses that are going to have a small payment ...funny thing is the people are hand selected government pals of Zelayas...why didn´t it go to the poor people and not his elite buddies?
Furthermore, most of us are incensed that we feel like he is selling out the country and our military to the highest bidder or the one who sticks their nose up his butt the furthest...what is wrong with our military being for our use and not being the puppets on a string to Chavez? Many don´t realize that Alba is a military accord and not a free trade accord...it is presents in exchange for full power over the military in an external conflict.
I could hardly be called a righty though since I am pro Obama and have been for quite awhile now. However, that doesn´t mean that I lost my common sense...common sense says that there is a difference between being a democrat and being a communist. There is a difference in believing in democratic principals and selling your country out to the cheapest authoritative dictator on the block.
So the person can claim what they want, but what reporters and outsiders see are limited compared to what the actual people who lived it saw. Doesn´t matter how mad they get at me..that is why I said there are always two sides to every story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. yeah, I saw the cheap shot. just remember if you don't adore Chavez
then they don't like you.

countless links have been posted regarding Chavez and the FARC, Chavez and his insults against Obama, Chavez and his power grab yet they will deny and lie at any and every opportunity to "protect" Hugo. what's funny is Hugo will say something and its there on youtube or whatever, and they'll even deny he said that. if they were such loyal Chavistas wouldn't they simply accept every word he states as gospel.



you are a threat to their ignorance and agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yeah I can´t believe that
they weren´t offended by his insult of Obama...I wonder when they are going to figure out that it wasn´t about Bush but about all Americans in general?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Who said they are right wingers?
Michelleti in the article is a LIBERAL. The article is a commentary by a Liberal against another one that is in power. So hardly a right winger when he is the leader of Congress and is very leftist. Now the comments were 100% of the readers and it has been that way for quite awhile...this goon is needed out of office yesterday or do you ignore and give him a pass because he pretends to be simply a liberal? He isn´t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. The translation
ARMANDO LIOS 24.03.2009 08:00pm
BUENO DETRAS DE TODO ESTO ESTA CHAVES EVO ORTEGA Y EL MAESTRO DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS FIDEL CASTRO Y RAUL CASTRO SU IMPERIO SIGE VIVO MUCHOS O POCOS CONOSEMOS LA HISTORIA DEL PUEBLO CUBANO Y DE LO KE ESTA PASANDO VENEZUELA..PUEBLO HONDURENO DIGAMOS NO NO NO AL TITERE

jose 24.03.2009 03:02pm
Srs.Definitivamente ni la prensa,ni los politicos entienden,este plan obedece a una estrategia en que los poderes del Estado no cuentan,se convocara la consulta,se modificara la Constitucion,ya estan preparados los CK con los PD para callar algunas voces(poder judicial incluido)y se cambiaron los mandos militares por otros dociles al aspirante a Rey.El plan fue elaborado por Alejandro meses antes.

Gentleman definately not the newspaper or the politicians understand, this is an obedience plane that is a strategy with powers of the state that do not include us in reunion or consult. They will modify the constitution they are prepared, the CK with the PD to shut up the voices(judicial power included) and they changed the military leaders with others that were more friendly to the aspired king. His plan was elaborated by Alejandor months ago.

feo 24.03.2009 03:01pm
Mi pregunta es cual es el interes que tiene este coruupto, socialista de la cuarta urna, quiere hacer lo mismo que hizo chaves en Venezuela, esta bigoton delincuente esta asesorado por chaves,no le den oportunidad de eso de repente hacen fraude, en las urnas apareceran llenas de votos aunque nadie haya votado,mucho cuidado con este delincuente de quinta.

My question is what is their corrupt intention? they are socialists of the fourth urn(corrupt), they want to do the same to us that Chavez did to Venezuela, this large mustached dilinquent is advised by Chavez, do not give him the opportunity to do this because he can commit fraud, in the urns they will appear full of votes even though no one has voted, be very careful of this delinquent.

mario 24.03.2009 03:01pm
jaja y asta ahora se dan cuenta si esto asta los siegos lo saven que este presidentillo es mas burro clonado que nadie asi que solo con andar de isquierdista poniendo en rridiculo la democrasia que tenemos que hay en honduras asi que delen de baja y que deje de andar con jilipoyeses ya que de la parte de el quisiera ser un dictador ygual al loco de chaves ya que ortega evo morales y mel zelaya esta

lol, and just now we are learning this? Even the blind know that this little president is more a hard headed clone that by pretending to be leftist and putting us in shame the democracy that we have in Honduras so that they can remove him and that he stops his silliness now that the part of him that would like to be a crazy dictator just like Chavez, Ortega, and Evo Morales.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
46. Are these also Right Wingers according to you?
They are all members of the Liberal party of Honduras...how more clear can it get to you?
In fact, they are leaders of the Liberal party, one is the leader of Congress...so you were saying about it being only right wingers? See politics here Judi are much more complicated than in the US.
http://www.laprensahn.com/País/Ediciones/2009/03/26/Noticias/Liberales-sellan-unidad-y-rechazan-el-continuismo

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
40. Here's a list of "Notorious Honduran School of the Americas Graduates"
http://www.derechos.org/soa/hond-not.html

~~~~~~~~~~~
CIA Support of Death Squads

Honduras: Death Squads

Honduras, 1981-87. Florencio Caballero, who served as a torturer and a member of a death squad, said he was trained in Texas by the CIA. He said he was responsible for the torture and slaying of 120 Honduran and other Latin American citizens. The CIA taught him and 24 other people in a army intelligence unit for 6 months in interrogation. psychological methods -- to study fears and weaknesses of a prisoner, make him stand up, don't let him sleep, keep him naked and isolated, put rats and cockroaches in his cell, give him bad food, throw cold water on him, change the temperature. Washington Post, 6/8/1988, B3

Honduras, circa 1982-87. Army Battalion 3/16, a special counterinsurgency force which many considered a kind of death squad, was formed in 1980. Florencio Caballero, a former battalion member, described a clandestine paramilitary structure for repressing leftists. Caballero, who studied interrogation techniques in Houston, said the CIA was extensively involved in training squad members. NACLA 2/1988, p. 15, from New York Times, 5/2/1987


Honduras, March 1986. Apart from CIA training of a battalion implicated in death squad activities and torture, Honduran army defector said CIA arranged a fabricated forced "confession" by kidnapped prisoner that he headed a guerrilla front and had planned attacks against U.S. installations. This in operation truth. Chomsky, N. (1988). The Culture of Terrorism, p. 239


Honduras. General G. Alvarez Martinez, CIA-Contra point man in Honduras, had death squad operation run by Ricardo Lau. Alvarez godfather to new CIA Chief of Station's daughter. Marshall, J., Scott P.D., and Hunter, J. (1987). The Iran-Contra Connection, pp. 78-9

Honduras, 1982-86. Zuniga told congressional staffers about the 316 Battalion established with the knowledge and assistance of the U.S. Embassy. By 1984 more than 200 Honduran teachers, students, labor leaders, and opposition politicians had been murdered. The CIA had knowledge of the killings. Zuniga killed in 9/1985. Mother Jones, 4/1987, p. 48
More: http://www.newsmakingnews.com/death_squads.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
December 21, 1995
Honduras Confronts Military Atrocities of the 80's
By LARRY ROHTER

During its decade-long "dirty war" against suspected guerrilla sympathizers, the Honduran military kidnapped, tortured and killed dozens of people, confident that the armed forces' enduring grip on power meant that they would never be held responsible.

Now, for the first time, a civilian court has charged 14 military officers with those and other human rights violations in the 1980's. But the commander of the armed forces is openly defying the elected civilian President.

With the commander's backing, some of the indicted officers have gone into hiding, and it is not clear whether they will ever be brought to justice.

The struggle has preoccupied the 5.5 million people of this Central American country for months, and threatens to undo a delicate balance of power between the military and civilian authorities.

And the Central Intelligence Agency is slowly and belatedly confronting the consequences of fighting the cold war in Central America. Throughout the 1980's its ties to the Honduran military were deep.

Senior Honduran military officials went on the C.I.A.'s payroll, United States officials said. They were paid for information and for their help in the Reagan Administration's clandestine war against the Sandinista Government in Nicaragua and leftist guerrillas in El Salvador.

Like other Latin American countries, including Chile and Argentina, Honduras has discovered just how difficult and dangerous it can be to come to grips with the state-sponsored violence of its recent past.

Until December 1993, the human rights abuses of the 1980's and the military's role in them were virtually a taboo subject here. But that changed when the Government's Commissioner for Human Rights, Leo Valladares Lanza, published "The Facts Speak for Themselves," a voluminous study that documented the forced disappearance and presumed deaths of 184 people.

In the report, Mr. Valladares said that at least 26 clandestine cemeteries were scattered around the country and that 100 or more current or former Honduran military officers might have been involved in the kidnappings. He singled out an elite unit called Battalion 3-16, organized and trained with the support and advice of the United States and Argentina, for the worst abuses.

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/21/world/honduras-confronts-military-atrocities-of-the-80-s.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all&pagewanted=print

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roots of Abu Ghraib in CIA techniques
50 years of refining, teaching torture
found in interrogation manuals


~snip~
Honduras, which shares borders with Nicaragua and El Salvador, was used by the Reagan-Bush administration in the 1980s as a base to fight Salvadoran rebels and to topple the Nicaraguan Sandinista government with the CIA-trained contra rebels.

Washington's key man in Honduras was Gen. Gustavo Alvárez, a graduate of the U.S. Army's School of the Americas, who created 3-16 with the CIA's help and who worked closely with U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, whose reports gave the impression that the Honduran military respected human rights.

However, Battalion 3-16 atrocities were detailed in a 1988 New York Times story, headlined "Testifying to Torture." Florencio Caballero, a 3-16 interrogator who later fled to Canada, told the Times that the CIA trained him and two dozen others in psychological methods. They were taught "to study the fears and weaknesses of a prisoner. Make him stand up, don't let him sleep, keep him naked and in isolation, put rats and cockroaches in his cell, give him bad food, serve him dead animals, throw cold water on him, change the temperature."

Caballero said the CIA taught that psychological coercion was more effective than physical torture, but that interrogations often degenerated into physical torture. He told of a 24-year-old woman named Ines Murillo who was stripped, starved, deprived of sleep, beaten, burned, electrically shocked and sexually molested.

Fay's Abu Ghraib report makes the same point about dehumanizing interrogations degenerating: "What started as nakedness and humiliation, stress and physical training, carried over into sexual and physical assaults."
http://www.hodge-cooper.net/CIA_torture.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-26-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Your post has nill to do with what we were talking about
so what is your point? You do realize that most of those people also were charged with crimes right? You do realize that it was the US that had heavy hands in those things?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. Summer, I am sad to hear of your views on South American heads of state.
Chavez and Morales have done nothing but good for their state, and the propaganda you have read and/or believe comes straight from CIA-written statements dating back to the inception of the agency. They have long been critical of leftist governments, to the point of outright coups in the past. They have demonized and lied in many cases to get people afraid and angry and unfortunately some people unquestioningly believe it.

I wish you would rethink your position, but it seems the source you live and die by is written by the opposition... I can understand that you are a "reformed" Republican and that some things take time to see, but imagine how you felt when you realized how wrong the Christian right was? There is a similar revelation waiting for you in Venezuela and Bolivia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Actually no it comes from Venezuelans themselves.
Edited on Sat Mar-28-09 10:23 AM by Summermoondancer
What you think is occurring isn´t...first of all he hasn´t done much good..most of it is smoke and mirrors and he has killed those who oppose him. I don´t care how much money you throw around it isn´t an excuse for murdering your way into power.
That is like forgiving Ramon Mata for all of his murders and drug smuggling operations because he paid off the debt that Honduras held to the US.
The man has nationalized everything and poverty is just as bad in Venezuela as it was when he started. Most of his ´projects´stand unfinished and how many years has it been since he started them?
The tractors he sent to Honduras were junk that could not be repaired because it is from Iran and there are no parts available....the tractors didn´t work...they are scrap that is about 40 years old.
Would you support someone in the US siezing power, telling you that they are going to nationalize banks, take your right to say what you want to, steal your home or property that had been in your family for generations, would you support that? If not then why do you support it in another country? Sorry, but taking people´s freedoms and then an American supporting that is beyond dispicable. BTW I also don´t support the US involving themselves in what is going on...however, you being blind to who he is and thinking he is some saint is beyond reproach...was what Stalin did right? How about Hitler? He isn´t much different.

I actually didn´t feel this way till I moved to Latin America and saw first hand what he is doing...he isn´t doing anything except taking a stranglehold on Venezuela and driving it into the ground. Before I was pretty quiet about what he did.
Oh and yes, I don´t like so called Christians from the right preaching to me and then preaching hate out of the other side of their mouth. Saw too much of it over this immigration issue and their complete unwillingness to compromise because the people who will be legalized are brown.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. You have no credibility whatsoever.
The UN has recognized that poverty is down 50% in Venezuela since 2003. Maybe you should go read something before you discredit yourself any futher.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. You are very judgemental...just because I don´t agree with your views
Edited on Sat Mar-28-09 05:21 PM by Summermoondancer
when you are sitting your comfortable butt in the US and making judgements while I am sitting IN Latin America telling you what it is actually like...just because you disagree with me doesn´t make my viewpoints not credible.

How are you any better than the same righties that you condemn? If you embark on the same stupid personal attacks that they do?

Before 1999 poverty rates were over 50% post 2001 they were 45% that is a mere 5% change not a 50% change that you alledge, in 2004 there was a situation that caused poverty rates to rise again in Venezuela...do you know by chance what it was? I do, but let´s see if you recall it.
In 2005 poverty rates fell to 43.7% which is a very long way from your allegation that it fell by 50%, what you mean is it fell below 50%.

Economic growth in Venezuela has been tied to the rise in oil prices, not because of Hugo Chavez...it is to be seen how this recession will affect Venezuela..and it will hit them as hard as anyone else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
optimasestveritas Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. You have a hard time with telling the truth.
You like to say everything you say is the truth. When people
confront you with the real truth, and back it up. With more
than hearsay or more made up truth. You turn to childish name
calling. Then to implied threats. Then to direct threats. Then
you turn around and claim you're a victim.

You my dear, have a  huge problem with reality and With
telling the truth. With your own self esteem.

I have read other boards where you have posted. Your posts are
mostly crap. I have seen where you have pissed off hundreds of
people on a single board. I have seen how you have turned to
childish name calling, and posting up lies and slander about
people. I have seen you even post up threats to those people.
What was their crime? Simple, they disagreed with you, and
proved. They disproved the things you were saying with facts
and logic.

I am betting you are no different here, than you have been on
the other boards you have been posting to.

I do have to say, you do seem to have an extreme amount of
time on your hands. Since you seem to spend most of all your
entire day. Everyday, on line, posting to boards.


<a
href="http://image.aimoo.com/0eec3a82-4fb8-4b19-8e91-97e8306f6bb8/NewType/84072b9f-d431-49cf-aee2-073c1201be55/20094643054.jpg"
target="_blank"><img
src="http://image.aimoo.com/0eec3a82-4fb8-4b19-8e91-97e8306f6bb8/NewType/84072b9f-d431-49cf-aee2-073c1201be55/20094643054.jpg"
border="0" title="Aimoo"/></a>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. Oh, boy! I just took a tiny moment to search. Good lordalmighty.
All OVER the place.

Great seeing your first post. Welcome to D.U., optimasestveritas. :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. You don't have a problem with me. You have a problem with
commonly accepted national indicators.

Just like you have a problem with your husband's role in the Contra War.

Good luck to you. You'll need it to be able to sleep at night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. First off, the banks of Venezuela aren't all nationalized by a mile
Second off, Chavez has cut poverty in half since 2003, and extreme poverty has lessened by 72% in that time. For this study, this only counts cash income and not medical care and education (which the government provides for many).

The number of children receiving college educations have tripled since Chavez took office.

The economy has grown (adjusted for inflation) about 95% in the past 6 years, most of this growth in the private non-oil sector.

These are facts, I don't know where your proof of "smoke and mirrors" is. Here is a detailed report by a Washington DC think tank that has such prestigious members on its board like Joseph Stiglitz:

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/econ_growth_2001_05.pdf

Here is an article detailing some of the missions of Chavez in education and what they have been able to do there:

http://www.projectcensored.org/articles/story/democratic-socialism-moves-forward-in-venezuela/

Income inequality in Venezuela has shrunk at an incredible rate. I can't believe that you think the oligarchs who used to rule the country actually ran it better, when you had over half of the population living in abject poverty and very little social services being provided. The old oligarchs only cared about themselves, which was evident by how the country was rotting around them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
62. How did we miss Summermoondancer's post of March 25? With this, there ain't nothin' more to say
March 25, 2009 Summermoondancer wrote:

Comment #20

Difference is

that now Columbia has a leader that is tough on drug smugglers and tends to extradite them to the US for punishment. Before they were the leaders...but Bolivia and Venezuela both grow the coca plant. Evo made it pretty clear that he was going to export cocaine to the US and that he didn´t give a flip what they thought.

The CIA at one time had heavy involvement but I don´t think they are pulling puppet strings now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Wow. Yes, I missed that. I guess I was too busy digesting
the utter denial of crimes against humanity during the Contra War.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. That post from the visitor is nearly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen.
Venezuela as a cocaine producer? Oh, PLEASE.

Evo exporting cocaine to the U.S.? It would take more time to straighten that crap out than it would to learn it correctly in the first place.

Speaking of Bolivia, and cocaine, the cocaine criminals in the Bolivian Presidency were RIGHT-WINGERS.

Here's info. published last year, regarding German Nazi, and WAR CRIMINAL, who relocated to Bolivia after WWII, with full knowledge by the U.S. :
In Pursuit of Bolivia's Secret Nazi
Wednesday September 10th 2008

For decades here in Bolivia we had an infamous tradition of ruthless dictators. In the early 70s General Hugo Banzer siezed power. He turned to the ex-Nazi Klaus Barbie to help him with the repression. It was not the first time that Barbie, a war criminal wanted by the French and German authorities, had mingled with hardliners. Here in Bolivia he used to do big business with the drug lords. He had his own team of assassins, some from Italy and others from Argentina, called the Grooms of Death. He also sold them weapons.

American intelligence officials helped Barbie to become established in Bolivia as part of their crusade against communism. He acted as a sort of counter-intelligence official. Under the alias of Klaus Altmann he worked primarily as an interrogator and torturer. He also helped in the same way in Peru. He did the same things here as in Germany and France. For him the word communist meant "dead". Many Bolivians died during that dictatorship; one that was prolonged for more than 10 years. Barbie was in charge of the murders of many Bolivian citizens, including priests and members of the opposition.

So some of us felt that we had to do something about it. But in 1980, after General Banzer, an even bloodier dictator, Luis García Meza, rose to power in what was called the narco, or cocaine, coup. Barbie was a key aide then. He was the main ideologue of that coup; he organised absolutely everything. He was even given the rank of lieutenant colonel in the Bolivian armed forces, and was then able to move around with total impunity. Today Bolivians know all about Barbie, but for a long time many even doubted that such a criminal could be here.

I was kind of obsessed with Barbie since the beginning. In the 70s, when I was in Chile with the Marxist Régis Debray and the Nazi hunter Serge Klarsfeld, we masterminded a plan to kidnap Barbie. But we failed. Back then I was a simple leftist journalist, who was on very bad terms with the dictators’ regimes – I knew that if I stayed I would be killed. I was in Chile until General Pinochet took over, then in Argentina until the junta took over, and finally in Cuba, until Bolivia’s return to democracy in 1982 under Hernán Siles Suazo.

One day, after my return to a democratic Bolivia, I received a phone call from the president himself asking me to "take care of" Barbie. That same day I was named deputy minister of the interior with one objective: to hand over Barbie to the French authorities within 24 hours. French president François Mitterrand, with the advice of Régis Debray, who was his aide , agreed that Barbie should be tried in France.

And I did so. I accomplished my mission: we actually got him for tax evasion. I went personally to take him from San Pedro prison in La Paz to the airport where we sent him to French Guiana, and then he was sent to Lyon for trial. When I got hold of him he was very reluctant to talk. But once we were at the airstrip, about to enter the plane, he asked me: "Where are you taking me?" He seemed to think we were taking him to another military outpost where he could meet some of his old friends, or perhaps back to Germany. When I told him he was going to Lyon he said: "It cannot be."

At this point I said to him: "Yes, you are going back there. Do you remember the French adage which says that a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime? Don’t you remember sending 600,000 Jews to concentration camps and gas chambers? As you personally killed so many in Lyon, you are going back there." "But," he said, "in war there are winners and losers." "So you lost," I said. "It is time to pay."

I was as afraid – as any other mortal would be – of retaliation from the many radical factions linked to Barbie in Bolivia. It was the same in France, where I was the only Bolivian witness during the trial and the supporters of Jean-Marie Le Pen, who sympathise with the Nazis, were after my tail. But the risk was worth taking. A man from the left, like me, cannot be afraid of the right. If I had to be killed, then so be it. But the Barbie issue was beyond ideologies: I knew that what I was doing was the right thing. He was a criminal for the whole of humankind and had to be condemned.
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=719&catID=9

~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's really GREAT information on cocaine in South America, etc., including Honduras:
Dark Side of Rev. Moon (Cont.): Drug Allies
(Posted in 1997)
By Robert Parry

~snip~
South American Drugs
Meanwhile, after World War II, South America was becoming a crossroads for Nazi fugitives and drug smugglers. Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie, the so-called Butcher of Lyons, earned his living in Bolivia by selling his intelligence skills, while other ex-Nazis trafficked in narcotics. Often the lines crossed.

In those years, Auguste Ricord, a French war criminal who had collaborated with the Gestapo, set up shop in Paraguay. Ricord opened up French Connection heroin channels to American Mafia drug kingpin Santo Trafficante Jr., who controlled much of the heroin traffic into the United States. Columns by Jack Anderson identified, Ricord's accomplices as some of Paraguay's highest-ranking officers.

Another French Connection mobster, Christian David, relied on protection of Argentine authorities. While trafficking in heroin, David also "took on assignments for Argentina's terrorist organization, the Argentine Anti-Communist Alliance," Henrik Kruger wrote in The Great Heroin Coup. During President Nixon's "war on drugs," U.S. authorities smashed this famous French Connection and won extraditions of Ricord and David in 1972.

But by then, powerful drug lords had forged strong ties to South America's military leaders. Other Trafficante-connected groups, including right-wing anti-Castro Cubans in Miami, eagerly filled the drug void. Heroin from the Golden Triangle of Southeast Asia quickly replaced the French Connection heroin that had come mostly from the Middle East.

During this period, the CIA actively collaborated with right-wing army officers to oust left-leaning governments. And amid this swirl of anti-communism, Moon became active in South America. His first visit to Argentina was in 1965 when he blessed a square behind the presidential Pink House in Buenos Aires. He returned a decade later and began making high-level contacts in Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia and Uruguay.

The far-right gained control of Argentina in 1976 with a Dirty War that "disappeared" tens of thousands of Argentines. Michael Levine, a star undercover agent of the Drug Enforcement Administration, was assigned to Buenos Aires and was struck how "death was very much a way of life in Argentina."

A Nazi Reunion
In nearby coca-producing Bolivia, Nazi fugitive Klaus Barbie was working as a Bolivian intelligence officer and drawing up plans for a putsch that would add that central nation to the region's "stable axis" of right-wing regimes. Barbie contacted Argentine intelligence for help.

One of the first Argentine intelligence officers who arrived was Lt. Alfred Mario Mingolla. "Before our departure, we received a dossier on ," Mingolla later told German investigative reporter Kai Hermann. "There it stated that he was of great use to Argentina because he played an important role in all of Latin America in the fight against communism. From the dossier, it was also clear that Altmann worked for the Americans."

As the Bolivian coup took shape, Bolivian Col. Luis Arce-Gomez, the cousin of cocaine kingpin Roberto Suarez, recruited neo-fascist terrorists such as Italian Stefano della Chiaie who had been working with the Argentine death squads. Dr. Alfredo Candia, the Bolivian leader of the World Anti-Communist League, was coordinating the arrival of these paramilitary operatives from Argentina and Europe, Hermann reported. Meanwhile, Barbie started a secret lodge, called Thule. During meetings, he lectured to his followers underneath swastikas by candlelight.

While the CIA was encouraging this aggressive anti-communism on one level, Levine and his DEA field agents were moving against some of the conspirators for drug crimes. In May 1980, DEA in Miami seized 854 pounds of cocaine base and arrested two top Bolivian traffickers from the Roberto Suarez organization. But Levine saw the bust double-crossed, he suspected, for geo-political reasons.

One suspect, Jose Roberto Gasser "was almost immediately released from custody by the Miami U.S. attorney's office," Levine wrote. (Gasser was the son of Bolivian WACL associate Erwin Gasser, a leading figure in the upcoming coup.) The other defendant saw his bail lowered, letting him flee the United States. Levine worried about the fate of Bolivian officials who had helped DEA.

On June 17, 1980, in nearly public planning for the coup, six of Bolivia's biggest traffickers met with the military conspirators to hammer out a financial deal for future protection of the cocaine trade. A La Paz businessman said the coming putsch should be called the "Cocaine Coup," a name that would stick.

Less than three weeks later, on July 6, DEA agent Levine met with a Bolivian trafficker named Hugo Hurtado-Candia. Over drinks, Hurtado outlined plans for the "new government" in which his niece Sonia Atala, a major cocaine supplier, will "be in a very strong position."

Later, an Argentine secret policeman told Levine that the CIA knew about the coup. "You North Americans amaze me. Don't you speak to your own people?" the officer wondered. "Do you think Bolivia's government -- or any government in South America -- can be changed without your government and mine being aware of it?"

When Levine asked why that affected the planned DEA investigation, the Argentine answered, "Because the same people he's naming as drug dealers are the people we are helping to rid Bolivia of leftists. ...Us. The Argentines ... working with your CIA."

The Cocaine Coup Cometh
On July 17, the Cocaine Coup began, spearheaded by Barbie and his neo-fascist goon squad dubbed Fiances of Death. "The masked thugs were not Bolivians; they spoke Spanish with German, French and Italian accents," Levine wrote. "Their uniforms bore neither national identification nor any markings, although many of them wore Nazi swastika armbands and insignias."

The slaughter was fierce. When the putschists stormed the national labor headquarters, they wounded labor leader Marcelo Quiroga, who had led the effort to indict former military dictator Hugo Banzer on drug and corruption charges. Quiroga "was dragged off to police headquarters to be the object of a game played by some of the torture experts imported from Argentina's dreaded Mechanic School of the Navy," Levine wrote.

"These experts applied their 'science' to Quiroga as a lesson to the Bolivians, who were a little backward in such matters. They kept Quiroga alive and suffering for hours. His castrated, tortured body was found days later in a place called 'The valley of the Moon' in southern La Paz." Women captives were gang-raped as part of their torture.

To Levine back in Buenos Aires, it was soon clear "that the primary goal of the revolution was the protection and control of Bolivia's cocaine industry. All major drug traffickers in prison were released, after which they joined the neo-Nazis in their rampage. Government buildings were invaded and trafficker files were either carried off or burned. Government employees were tortured and shot, the women tied and repeatedly raped by the paramilitaries and the freed traffickers."

The fascists celebrated with swastikas and shouts of "Heil Hitler!" Hermann reported. Col. Arce-Gomez, a central-casting image of a bemedaled, pot-bellied Latin dictator, grabbed broad powers as Interior Minister. Gen. Luis Garcia Meza was installed as Bolivia's new president.

Moon & the Putschists
Among the first well-wishers arriving in La Paz to congratulate the new government was Moon's top lieutenant, Bo Hi Pak. The Moon organization published a photo of Pak meeting with Gen. Garcia Meza. After the visit to the mountainous capital, Pak declared, "I have erected a throne for Father Moon in the world's highest city."

According to later Bolivian government and newspaper reports, a Moon representative invested about $4 million in preparations for the coup. Bolivia's WACL representatives also played key roles, and CAUSA, one of Moon's anti-communist organizations, listed as members nearly all the leading Bolivian coup-makers.

After the coup, Arce-Gomez went into partnership with big narco-traffickers, including Trafficante's Cuban-American smugglers. Klaus Barbie and his neo-fascists got a new assignment: protecting Bolivia's major cocaine barons and transporting drugs to the border.

"The paramilitary units -- conceived by Barbie as a new type of SS -- sold themselves to the cocaine barons," concluded Hermann. "The attraction of fast money in the cocaine trade was stronger than the idea of a national socialist revolution in Latin America."

According to Levine, Arce-Gomez boasted to one top trafficker: "We will flood America's borders with cocaine." It was boast that the coup-makers backed up.

"Bolivia soon became the principal supplier of cocaine base to the then fledgling Colombian cartels, making themselves the main suppliers of cocaine to the United States," Levine said. "And it could not have been done without the tacit help of DEA and the active, covert help of the CIA."

On Dec. 16, 1980, Cuban-American intelligence operative Ricardo Morales told a Florida prosecutor that he had become an informer in Operation Tick-Talks, a Miami-based investigation that implicated Frank Castro and other Bay of Pigs veterans in a conspiracy to import cocaine from the new military rulers of Bolivia.

Years later, Medellin cartel money-launderer Ramon Milian Rodriguez testified before Senate hearings chaired by Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass. Milian Rodriguez stated that in the early days of the cartel, "Bolivia was much more significant than the other countries."

As the drug lords consolidated their power in Bolivia, the Moon organization expanded its presence, too. Hermann reported that in early 1981, war criminal Barbie and Moon leader Thomas Ward were often seen together in apparent prayer. Mingolla, the Argentine intelligence officer, described Ward as his CIA paymaster, with the $1,500 monthly salary coming from the CAUSA office of Ward's representative.

On May 31, 1981, Moon representatives sponsored a CAUSA reception at the Sheraton Hotel's Hall of Freedom in La Paz. Bo Hi Pak and Garcia Meza led a prayer for President Reagan's recovery from an assassination attempt. In his speech, Bo Hi Pak declared, "God had chosen the Bolivian people in the heart of South America as the ones to conquer communism." According to a later Bolivian intelligence report, the Moon organization sought to recruit an "armed church" of Bolivians, with about 7,000 Bolivians receiving some paramilitary training.

Cocaine Stresses
But by late 1981, the obvious cocaine taint was straining U.S.-Bolivian relations. "The Moon sect disappeared overnight from Bolivia as clandestinely as they had arrived," Hermann reported. Only Ward and a couple of others stayed on with the Bolivian information agency as it worked on a transition back to civilian rule.

According to Hermann's account, Mingolla met Ward in the cafeteria Fontana of La Paz's Hotel Plaza in March 1982. Ward was discouraged about the Bolivian operation. "The whole affair with Altmann , with the whole fascism and Nazism bit, that was a dead-end street," Ward complained. "It was stupid having Moon and CAUSA here." Ward could not be reached for comment about this article.

The Cocaine Coup leaders soon found themselves on the run. Interior Minister Arce-Gomez was eventually extradited to Miami and is serving a 30-year sentence for drug trafficking. Roberto Suarez got a 15-year prison sentence. Gen. Garcia Meza is a fugitive from a 30-year sentence imposed on him in Bolivia for abuse of power, corruption and murder. Barbie was returned to France to face a life sentence for war crimes. He died in 1992.

But Moon's organization paid little price for the Cocaine Coup. Funding U.S. conservative political conferences and founding the ultra-conservative Washington Times in 1982, Moon ingratiated himself to President Reagan and other leading Republicans. Moon also continued to build a political-economic base in South America.

In 1984, The New York Times called Moon's church "one of the largest foreign investors" in Uruguay, having invested some $70 million in the three preceding years. Investments included Uruguay's third largest bank, the Banco de Credito; the Hotel Victoria Plaza in Montevideo; and the newspaper, Ultimas Noticias. Moon's venture were aided by generous tax breaks from Uruguay's military government. "Church officials said Uruguay was especially attractive because of liberal laws that allow easy repatriation of profits abroad," the Times reported.

Supporting the Nicaraguan contra rebels, Moon's organization developed close ties, too, with the powerful Honduran military which gave the contras base camps along the Nicaraguan border. Again, Moon's representatives were in contact with officers suspected of supporting the shipment of cocaine into the United States. Anti-Castro Cubans linked to the Miami drug networks also appeared on the scene to advance the anti-communist cause as did intelligence officers from the Argentine military.

The Honduran Connection
Kerry's Senate report concluded that Honduras became an important way station for cocaine shipments heading north. "Elements of the Honduran military were involved ... in the protection of drug traffickers from 1980 on," the report stated. "These activities were reported to appropriate U.S. government officials throughout the period. Instead of moving decisively to close down the drug trafficking by stepping up the DEA presence in the country and using the foreign assistance the United States was extending to the Hondurans as a lever, the United States closed the DEA office in Tegucigalpa and appears to have ignored the issue."

In the mid-1980s, when journalists and congressional investigators began probing the evidence of contra-connected drug trafficking, they encountered harsh attacks from Moon's Washington Times. An Associated Press story that I co-wrote with Brian Barger was denounced on the Times' front page as a "political ploy."

The Times attacked Kerry's investigators first for wasting money and then with obstructing justice . Now, with a clearer picture of Moon's historic ties to drug-tainted officials in South America, the harassment of these investigations takes on a different appearance, of possible self-protection.

More recently, Moon has shifted his base of operation to a luxurious estate in Uruguay and continued to expand his South American holdings. He has invested heavily in the Argentine province of Corrientes, a border area near Paraguay that is known as a major smuggling center.

In a sermon to his followers on Jan. 2, 1996, Moon announced plans to begin building small airstrips in remote areas of South America as well as bases for submarines to evade Coast Guard patrols. Saying the airfield project would be for tourism, he added that "in the near future, we will have many small airports throughout the world." The submarines, he said, were needed because "there are so many restrictions due to national boundaries worldwide."

With his history and prominence, Moon and his organization would seem a natural attraction for U.S. government scrutiny. But Moon may have purchased insurance against any intrusive investigation by buying so many powerful American politicians that Washington's power centers can no more afford the scrutiny than he can.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon6.html

Oh, god, there's so much more of this. Only a fool would try to pull the wool over peoples' eyes on this subject!

~~~~~~~~~~

For general information, you'll see a fair number of drug trafficking right-wing, of course, a-holes in this group of Bolivian School of the Americas grads:

Notorious Bolivian School of the Americas Graduates
*Miguel Alvarez Delgado 1977 Joint Operations Links to drug trafficking: Accused in the "Narconavales" case of cashing checks that came from a drug-trafficking ring. The proceedings against him were stayed in 1997. (RAI)
Luis Arce Gómez 1958, Communications Officer
1958, Tactical Officer, Radio Repair Armed insurrection (convicted), 1980: With Garcia Meza Tejada, Arce Gómez plotted and executed a bloody coup, which occurred on July 17, 1980. (Garcia Meza became "president" and Arce Gómez minister of the Interior.) Prior to the coup, Arce Gómez was in charge of assembling a paramilitary force to overthrow the government. (One of his recruits was Klaus Barbie.) (AW:BTR)
Drug trafficking (convicted), 1989: Arce Gómez, who was declared a fugitive from justice in 1986, was captured by Bolivian police in 1989. With the approval of the Bolivian government, he was handed over to the United States and is currently serving a 30-year sentence in Miami for drug-trafficking. (AW:BTR)
GEN Hugo Banzer Suárez 1956, Motor Officer Course
1988, SOA "Hall of Fame"
1989, Guest Speaker Military dictator, 1971-78: Achieved power by means of a violent coup. Developed the "Banzer Plan" to silence outspoken members of the Church; the plan became a blueprint for repression throughout Latin America. Also known for sheltering Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie, "The Butcher of Lyons," and for supporting and collaborating with Garcia Meza's regime. (AJC, 10/30/88; AW:BTR)
*Grover Bilbao Terrazas 1967, Cadet Course Drug-trafficking: Accused and sentenced in the "Narcoavion" case (1995) as a drug supplier. (RAI)
*Luis Caballero Tirado 1993, Curso de Comando y Estado Mayor (0-3)
1990, Psychological Operations O-22
1990, Operaciones de Estado Mayor Mistreatment of prisoners: When the president of the Human Rights Commission visited the headquarters of UMOPAR (Mobil Rural Patrol Units), he discovered 93 detainees, including two minors and one prisoners with fractured ribs and a punctured lung from being kicked by UMOPAR agents under Caballeros' command. Caballero has also publicly admitted that 40% of the operations carried out under his command involve human rights violations such as excessive use of force. (VDHL)
*Isaac Chavarria Diez de Medina 1968 Cadet Course
1970 Officer Gen. Supply Drug-trafficking: Primary defendant in the "Narcovinculos" case (1994-6). Died in 1995 in a La Paz jail due to lack of medical attention.
Cpt Gonzalo Cuellar Justinio 1990, General Staff Officer Course Mistreatment of prisoners, 1990: Cuellar Justinio has been charged with illegal detention of prisoners, assault, soliciting pay-offs in exchange for releases, forcing prisoners to sign false confessions. (AIN)
GEN Mario Escobari Guerra 1959, Engineer Officer Course Issuing unconstitutional decrees (convicted) in cooperation with armed insurrection, 1980: Convicted in April 1993 for signing unconstitutional decrees in cooperation with Garcia Meza. (BSC)
*Carlos Fernandez Gonzalez 1961, Military Intelligence Links to drug trafficking: Fernandez Gonzalez was relieved of his position as Undersecretary of the Interior under the government of Lidia Gueiler (1980) due to concrete evidence of his links to drug trafficking. Later he regained his image and was named President of the National Council for the Struggle Against Drug-Trafficking. However, in 1983, he was accused of involvement with the disappearance of 150 kilos of cocaine. He also was relieved of his duties as head of the Special Security Forces of the Ministry of Interior after he was accused of covering up drug-trafficking. (RAI)
Ruben Dario Guzmán Hurtado 1970, Small Unit Warfare Issuing unconstitutional decrees and fraud (convicted) in cooperation with armed insurrection, 1980: Guzmán Hurtado was sentenced in April 1993 on charges related to Garcia Meza's 1980 coup. (BSC)
CPT Carlos Helguero Larrea 1970, Small Unit Warfare Armed insurrection (implicated), 1980: Implicated in cases of murder committed in association with the Garcia Meza coup in 1980. (BSC)
*Pablo Oswaldo Justiniano Vaca 1986, Comando y Estado Mayor Drug trafficking: Primary defendant in the "Narconavales" case, accused of running a drug trafficking ring in the Navy since 1975. Detained in 1995. Also implicated in the exchange of brazilian tin for cocaine in 1989.
*Freddy Lopez Arispe 1962, Infantry Officer Course Illegal arms trafficking: Detained in 1993 on charges of arms trafficking to the ex-Yugoslavia. (RAI)
CPT Tito Montaño Belzu 1970, Small Unit Warfare Armed Insurrection, murder (convicted), 1980: Paramilitarist Montaño Belzu was sentenced (on April 21, 1993) to 30 years in prison for murder, and 20 years for genocide, in connection with Garcia Meza's bloody 1980 coup. (AW:BTR)
SGT Franz Pizarro Solano 1979, Commando Operations Murder of Marcelo Quiroga Santa Cruz: On May 2, 1998, Interpol began an international search for Pizarro Solano, who is suspected of assasinating the Bolivian socialist leader and ex-minister Marcelo Quiroga Santa Cruz on July 17, 1980 during Garcia Meza's coup. Pizarro Solano is reported to have been living and working in Japan for years. (Clarín, May 3, 1998)
COL Avelino Rivero Parada 1977, Joint Operations Issuing unconstitutional decrees (convicted) in cooperation with armed insurrection, 1980: Convicted in April 1993 for signing unconstitutional cooperation with Garcia Meza - Including annulments of democratic elections, abnegation of trade union rights, purging university teaching and administrative staff, illegal purchases of land, vehicles and aircraft for the armed forces, and dismissal and replacement of the Bolivian Supreme Court. Rivero Parada was minister of public health and social security under Garcia Meza. (AW:BTR)
Ltc Freddy Quiroga-Reque 1980, Joint Operations Course Armed insurrection, murder (convicted), 1980: Sentenced (on April 21, 1993) to 30 years in prison for murder in connection with Garcia Meza's bloody 1980 coup (AW:BTR, BSC)
Vice-Admiral Alberto Saenz Klinsky 1973, "O-4" Minister under Garcia Meza: Saenz Klinsky was a member of Garcia Meza's second cabinet, but was never formally charged with issuing unconstitutional decrees. (AW:BTR)
COL Rogelio Vargas 1990, General Staff Officer Course Mistreatment of prisoners, 1990: 240 prisoners were beaten, denied food, forced to stay on their knees for hours on November 7, 1990. (AIN)
GEN Guido Vildoso Calderón 1962, Infantry Weapons and Tactics Military dictator, 1982: Achieved power by military appointment. (WP, 5/19/94)

http://www.derechos.org/soa/bol-not.html

`

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Places » Latin America Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC