Aussie Peel Hotel can refuse entrance to not just heteros, but lesbians also.

[MilesColtrane]

This wasn't clear in the BBC article posted earlier.

The owner says women in the club are a big problem. So their presence will be regulated.


SYDNEY (AFP) - An Australian hotel popular with gay men has won the right to refuse entry to heterosexuals and lesbians, officials and the owner said Monday.

-snip-

"My main motivation is to protect my gay male customers and I realise heterosexuals and lesbians may be upset. but I don't care about that.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070528/lf_afp/lifestyleaustraliagay;_ylt=Aj66O7uLahm4CQRUKEUU6XjMWM0F?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Sounds like some sort of publicity stunt.

Like that theater owner that "censored" the title of "The Vagina Monologues."

[MilesColtrane]

2. I think the owner is sincere in the type of atmosphere he wants to create.

His problems don't seem to be with heteros as much as they are with women.

The simple solution is to make it a private club.

Part of being in public is rubbing elbows with those you'd rather not.

[Madspirit]

3. Oh Right

They're scared of lesbians. You really don't get it. Straight people kill us. We don't kill each other. They merely want a space of their own.
Lee

[Behind the Aegis]

24. I agree.

The simplest solution would be to make it a private club.

[quinnox]

4. That is ok

If he wants to make a gay male only night club. Australia probaly has a lot of gays and he is catering to his customers.

[Madspirit]

5. Disingenuous gay baiting

Forkboy posted the original article. I know Forkboy. He is one of my favorite posters here and he and I discussed that article. He is NOT a homophobe. He innocently posted it because he thought it was interesting and topical.

THIS post, on the other hand, I suspect, is an attempt to divide gay men and lesbians, out of spite because on the other thread you got a resounding...WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KICK STRAIGHTS OUT OF OUR BARS BECAUSE THEY CAN BE NASTY KILLERS AND GAWKERS...but guess what...it won't work.

I totally, without hesitation, support my gay brother's rights to a place they feel safe and free to be who they are. We have all lesbian bars too.

Sorry, the ol' divide and conquer will not work here.
Lee

[MilesColtrane]

9. "Sorry, the ol' divide and conquer will not work here."

I have no interest in conquering anybody.

And, dividing is what is done when someone's turned away at the door of a public club because they might make someone inside feel uncomfortable.

[Madspirit]

10. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE SAFE

Away from YOU. Sorry and tough shit. ...and do you think we are actually allowed as GAYS in your bars? We get tossed out or beaten....or killed. What a crock of crap. You make me sick.

Straights have 42 trillion bars to our one and you have to invade that one? Once again, you make me sick.
Lee

[spoony]

22. So many things "make you sick"

Outrage apparently isn't one of them.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. And "Curves" doesn't allow men to join....

and I was forbidden from taking an intro to feminism class in college because I'm a man.

I wasn't thrilled, but I understood. I don't see the big deal.

[LoZoccolo]

20. The Curves thing I see, the feminism class thing is pure shit. n/t

[Bluebear]

7. 600 posts in 5 years and THIS brought you out of your shell?

:crazy:

[Madspirit]

12. Let's Hope

Let's hope they go back to their little homophobic shell.
Lee

[MilesColtrane]

8. Wow...

You got me.
I'm finally unmasked as a fire-breathing, redneck, gay-hater.

I posted the owners words because I was curious if those who were defending bigotry would defend it even if it extended to themselves.

[Madspirit]

11. Not Bigotry

Wanting to feel safe and ungawked at is not bigotry. Once again, you have 42 trillion straight bars to our one and you feel a need to invade our space? What a crock. You make me ill. ....and guess what, it didn't work. I totally support my gay brothers. We have plenty of all lesbian bars.
nanananana. You are not wanted in our places of safety.
Lee

[MilesColtrane]

14. Sorry that straights make you feel uncomfortable.

Because that's really the point of contention.

You'll get no argument from me that a club owner should be able to toss someone who is threating their patrons.
More power to them.

But, refusing to allow someone in because you don't like their gender, or sexual orientation is bullshit.

And that's what makes me ill.

[Madspirit]

15. Yeah right

It's real bigotry to want to feel safe. ...and I don't feel unsafe or uncomfortable around straight people. I have as many straight, including men, friends as I have gay friends. I was defending this bar and our right to feel safe. Sorry you are such a bigot you don't get the "safe" part and the wanting our own space part and the not wanting to be gawked at part and the YOU HAVE 72 TRILLION BARS TO OUR ONE SO WHY DO YOU HAVE TO INVADE OUR ONE part.
Go back into lurk mode.
Lee

[Bluebear]

13. Yes, it's "bigotry" to want to have a safe place to socialize.

Those gays are just BIGOTED against straights. That is why they don't want them in their club. Right?

[Madspirit]

16. I HATE

I just hate whiny-assed straight people. Jesus fucking Christ...they own everything...the whole world is theirs and they pitch a little hissy if they are excluded from our place. What a bunch of freaky creeps.
Lee

[Blashyrkh]

38. So you hate people for being straight?

Don't you get rather agitated at people being anti-gay? I think you just lost all your remaining credibility.

[foreigncorrespondent]

17. Now this Aussie lesbian shall make her feelings known!

I posted the owners words because I was curious if those who were defending bigotry would defend it even if it extended to themselves.

How is it bigotry? Have you forgotten about the fact that there are MANY heterosexual places around the world that not only bans gay men and lesbians, but also straight women?

Have you forgotten the fact that there are MANY heterosexual clubs/groups around the world that not only ban gay men and lesbians from being members, but also straight men?

If you do not post about the above mentioned stuff, and call it bigotry, then your actions can only suggest that in your eyes it is ok for heterosexuals to have their little private clubs, but when it is YOU who is faced with not being allowed, it is bigotry. Pot meet kettle.

Now I am a lesbian. I am also an Australian. This gay male club happens to be in a suburb of Melbourne, which is in the state of Victoria. Guess what? I happen to live in the state of Victoria. It doesn't bother me in the least that this guy is wanting to make a secure place for the people who have been his greatest support over the years, the gay male population. So yes, I will defend his right to do this, as I would defend the right of straight women to have their little private clubs, straight men to have theirs, and lesbians to have theirs.

There are plenty of mixed venues all over, but sometimes it really is nice to go hang with people who totally understand you. People of your own kind. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Madspirit]

30. dupe in wrong place...n/t

[ThomCat]

44. Wow

You can't see the difference between bigotry and safe-space.
You can't see the difference between protecting a minority and total straight domination of all public spaces.

So who's the one defending bigotry on this thread?

[Madspirit]

18. You SHOULD be ashamed

Instead of being a whiny-assed straight person moaning about being excluded from ONE place, why don't you address the issue that makes us feel safer with you NOT AROUND? Did you even NOTICE the "abuse" part? DID YOU? Why don't you address all the hate crimes perpetrated against gays? Why don't you write something impassioned about Matthew Sheppard being beaten to a bloody pulp and barb-wired to a fence to bleed out and die over a period of several hours? Why don't you spend as much time being righteously indignant about THAT as you did whining about this? Over 1200 gays a year, in America, are victims of hate crimes. I'm fairly sure the numbers are comparable in Australia. Why don't you moan a little about that. What a crock of crap. No wonder we don't feel safe with YOU around. You just glossed that completely over, if you even noticed it.
Lee

[MilesColtrane]

19. A final point. I'll say it even though you won't believe I mean it.

Bigotry is bad.
Prejudice is bad.
Segregation is bad.
Assaulting and killing people is bad.

...no matter who is doing it to who.

Consider that a night of "gay tourism" for a suburban Melbourne housewife might just make her reconsider her opinions and wonder why other people she knows get in such a tizzy when they see a lad dancing with another lad, or holding hands, or kissing.

I firmly believe that the forced desegration of public places in America helped change the racial attitudes of a hell of a lot of people, even though there were people of all types who opposed it.

All I know is that some jag off club owner somewhere in Australia is now going to start excluding Aboriginal People, or women, or gays, and he'll point to this ruling as a justification.

[Dorian Gray]

25. Miles...

I think that your final point is something that we should consider: "All I know is that some jag off club owner somewhere in Australia is now going to start excluding Aboriginal People, or women, or gays, and he'll point to this ruling as a justification."

Saying that, I also think that private clubs have a right to exist, and people have a right to include whatever clientele that they might include. It's a sad state.

Why this topic got so inflamed, I do not know. It's an interesting conundrum. I understand the need for both safety and privacy all the while saddened that inclusion isn't the de-facto position. There is a lot of resentment around the world because of prejudiced behavior, and it is warranted in most cases. At the same time, I think that there is sometimes a pre-supposition of bigotry in instances where there isn't necessarily any, and to determine when one must protect his/herself from that bigotry is difficult.

There is a place for a men's only gay club. Obviously. Just as there would be for a women's only lesbian club. But, it saddens me that there would be a demand for such an exclusive place primarily because of the idea of negative sentiment toward their lifestyle.

[spoony]

23. "No wonder we don't feel safe with YOU around."

Would you stop acting like the OP had threatened or commited hate crimes? Holy shit, I've never seen such hysteria.

[Madspirit]

27. Just fyi

This will be the last time I ever address you. I already pretty much ignore you but just wanted you to know this...I probably care less what you think than anyone on this entire 104,000 people forum.

Lee

[Bluebear]

33. ooh, who is it, who is it? lol

[Madspirit]

34. Check PM...n/t

[porphyrian]

26. Private business, so what?

I think the owner is properly unapologetic about it, too. I'm sure there are other places to stay in the area for everyone else.

I never really get why exclusivity is so easily accepted when it's created through cost-prohibition. I guess classism is the only acceptable -ism.

[Madspirit]

28. LISTEN UP

Straight people drove us underground, into closets, hidden bars and clubs, a life not live out-loud and now they want to force their way in...makes me puke.

None of the whiners even addressed the "why" the bar wanted to do that. The article said straight people were coming in abusing the gay folk. Not one of these whiners said one word about that.

It's silly-assed crap like..."eww...now they will discriminate against Aborigines". What empty-minded nonsensical drivel. For one thing, as I keep pointing out, straight people have about 72 trillion clubs to our one and for another, we've always been discriminated against in straight bars. Do you REALLY think we are allowed to be in straight bars AS gay people. Yeah right. ...and it still hasn't made the world a worse place for Aborigines. :rofl:

Frankly, the het. whining is the stupidest thing I've ever seen and especially your posts with all of the pathetic..."oh this is so unfair.." LIKE YOU KNOW "UNFAIR"! What an absurd joke.
...and you keep addressing me with all your frank and earnest CONCERN about the whole world going down the toilet now that you can't go into this gay bar that YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO GO INTO ANYWAY.

So much whining just because the shoe is on the other foot, in a really tiny way. Straight people have the whole world. You can hold hands walking down the streets, you can kiss in a restaurant, you can marry, you own the whole fucking world and you have to whine because there might be one place you can't just push your sense of entitlement into everyone's face.

The world isn't nice enough yet for people to not need safe places. WHY DON'T YOU BE UPSET ABOUT THAT!!
Lee

[Bluebear]

29. Stop!

Look upthread, we're "insane" :eyes:

[Madspirit]

31. Yup

...and not just certifiable....actually certified and proud of it..

Giant senses of entitlement must correspond to tiny other parts.
Lee

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Make it a private club and be done with it.

If it is public access, it should be to all the public. Clubs and bars can be private or public, if this one is public (the article doesn't really clarify that), then this is discriminatory. If people are causing problems, they should be asked to leave.

[VelmaD]

35. I find this whole thread utterly surreal

I'm having a hard time figuring out what to think. I'm utterly stunned at the bar owner's comments about not caring what heterosexuals and lesbians think. I hope he only means that in this specific context...because if it's his general life philosophy - to write off the feelings of straight men and ALL women...then he doesn't really seem to deserve the support he's getting on this thread.

That said, he must think he has the most advanced gay-dar in existence since he's going to be able to tell just by looking what someone's sexual orientation is. *snort*

Personally, I prefer to go drinking with my friends, both gay and straight, at bars that make everyone feel welcome. I understand the people who are so upset that gays are made to feel unwelcome at "straight" bars. And that pisses me off on your behalf. And I understand wanting a safe environment. Everyone should be able to get drunk and hit on people WAY out of there league in safety. :) But it makes me sad that there aren't more places where we can meet and all be safe together.

[Dorian Gray]

40. Velma

I totally agree with your post. Beautifully stated. And quite what I believe about the situation.

And, to Madspirit, I do feel outraged that there are assholes out there that would taunt or physically harm anybody who is gay. It's angering and frustrating that humans hurt other humans in any way. And I know that it happens, and I'm thankful that I live in a place where everything seems to be live and let live.

Having said that, I really wonder how the bar owner will enforce this. How do you prove that people are gay. (Proving that they are female is a little easier, of course!) :)

[cynatnite]

36. I was bothered by the part in refusing lesbians, but not any more...

The way I read this, and if I'm wrong on this someone please say, is that when they see anyone harassing gays they'll kick them out and won't let them back in. Seems like this was done to prevent someone from suing in the future when the hotel keeps these people out. If someone is there for a few drinks, to relax and not interested in bothering other people, the hotel won't be concerned about them. It almost sounds like this club had a persistent problem from certain groups of people they knew and wants to put a stop to it. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[HardRocker05]

37. nothing new; many clubs exclude gays, women, blacks, jews, etc. they shouldn't, except

where it is clearly justified by the purpose of the club, i.e. a prostate cancer survivior's group might exclude women, although seriously, if any well-meaning woman wanted to join, she should be allowed. clubs should not discriminate on the grounds of sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.; they should confine their discrimination to *individuals* who have shown a desire to cause trouble and disrupt the normal activities of the group.

[Nicole]

39. I don't get the outrage over this.

This doesn't even sound like an outright ban on straights & lesbians.

"McFeely said his aim was not to ban all straight patrons and lesbians but to limit their numbers so gay men could freely express their sexuality."

"With the heterosexual males, if they identify themselves as that at the door, or indeed we question their behaviour in the venue and if they come across as being heterosexual, then we will simply ask them to leave if the behaviour is unappropriate."

I think they sought the Equal Opportunity Act exemption so that when they do eject those disrupting the place, they can't be sued for discrimination. I applaud their efforts & the decision on their behalf.

[Madspirit]

41. LISTEN UP...ONE MORE TIME!

You are demanding an inclusion you've NEVER extended to us in one of the ONLY places we can be who we are and feel safe and comfortable. It's our shelter from the storm.

...and to repeat myself because you seem to need this repeated because it seems to escape your comprehension and understanding:

Straight people drove us underground, into closets, hidden bars and clubs, a life not live out-loud and now they want to force their way in...makes me puke.

None of the whiners even addressed the "why" the bar wanted to do that. The article said straight people were coming in abusing the gay folk. Not one of these whiners said one word about that.

Your aggression, your entitlement issues, your violence, your gawking, your demands to be front and center....all that little straight boy stuff...we're there to get away from it.

It's silly-assed crap like..."eww...now they will discriminate against Aborigines". What empty-minded nonsensical drivel. For one thing, as I keep pointing out, straight people have about 72 trillion clubs to our one and for another, we've always been discriminated against in straight bars. Do you REALLY think we are allowed to be in straight bars AS gay people. Yeah right. ...and it still hasn't made the world a worse place for Aborigines. :rofl:

This isn't some Right we're taking from you. We're not imposing on your freedoms or safety. We're not barring you from housing or education. We're saying if you come to our sanctuary it's at our discretion.

Frankly, the het. whining is the stupidest thing I've ever seen and especially your posts with all of the pathetic..."oh this is so unfair.." LIKE YOU KNOW "UNFAIR"! What an absurd joke.
...and you keep addressing me with all your frank and earnest CONCERN about the whole world going down the toilet now that you can't go into this gay bar that YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO GO INTO ANYWAY.

So much whining just because the shoe is on the other foot, in a really tiny way. Straight people have the whole world. You can hold hands walking down the streets, you can kiss in a restaurant, you can marry, you own the whole fucking world and you have to whine because there might be one place you can't just push your sense of entitlement into everyone's face.

The world isn't nice enough yet for people to not need safe places. You've proved that point. WHY DON'T YOU BE UPSET ABOUT THAT!! Do something about that. I suggest some consciousness raising courses.
Lee

[NashVegas]

45. So. Why Must Lesbians Be Kept Away While Fag Hags Get a Pass?

Discrimination is discrimination in whatever form it takes. For a private club this would be acceptable, but public? Non.

[Madspirit]

42. Reading Comprehension is Good

It doesn't say they HAVE to not let straights in. It says they have that right. It's so they won't be sued when they do toss an aggressive straight asshat. It says they have the right of that choice.

We can't go in their clubs AS gays. You know it. You know what happens to us when we do. Jeez...what is it about reading comprehension that people are lacking. We have a right to a safe and ungawked at sanctuary. IF we want to let a straight in, that too is our right. If someone is just sitting there gawking like a mouth breather and they were tossed out for that, the bar could be sued, without this law.

Lee

[Madspirit]

43. Pretend Straight Person

I am going to pretend I am the coolest heterosexual in the entire world and I JUST read this article:

"Coolest Heterosexual Ever: Man, just reading that pisses me off. What is wrong with those straight people that they have to go abuse gay people at their own bars OR ANYWHERE? I am so very sorry that happened. Also, in this world where I benefit SO VERY MUCH, from the un-level playing field, I just want to say how sorry I am that WE have created such a violent and scary world for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. I am SO sorry you have to fear for your lives just for being who you are and I apologize for any complicity I have in that, even if only passively, by not always and without fail, defending you against bias and bigotry. I am sorry I have not objected EVERY time I've ever heard a cruel, crude and stereotyping joke. I promise to do everything I can and to work really hard to assure you get all your rights and that there is NEVER again a Matthew Sheppard or a Brandon Teena. ...and can I just say, one more time, how sorry I am that these idiots came to your place of safety and comfort just to abuse you."

:rofl:


I can't hear you.
Lee