Greg Palast just posted on Kos answering critics on election fraud/caging.

[blm]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/29/121118/463

[havocmom]

1. Thanks for heads up

[blm]

3. Just clicked on your sig line - VERY POWERFUL LINK you have there.

I hadn't noticed that particular compilation before.

[havocmom]

9. Can't recall which wonderful DUer posted that originally, but it is a keeper!

We need more people to bookmark that one ;)

[Nunyabiz]

2. DKos is a left gatekeeper site

Mostly a bunch of hacks without a clue that attack liberal democrats with abandon.

[Beelzebud]

4. That's actually true. I realized it when they did their 2 week hit job on Kucinich.

Here is the only guy that is saying we need to impeach and end this illegal war, so what does KOS do? He calls Dennis a freak and urges his minions to ignore and marginalize the guy.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Link to where Kos "urges his minions to ignore and marginalize the guy" plz?

I'm only familiar with this, which alleges to show DK to be batshit crazy, but *specifically* lacks any rabble-rousing call.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/2/23/113236/176

Where *exactly* have you seen this rally-the-minions you claim to exist?

[Beelzebud]

8. He doesn't need to say "Marginalize this guy". When he sums up the man with "Ugh" that says enough.

Look at the comments. His daily readers certainly knew what the message was.

It's the same shit as when he stopped including Kucinich on the 'favorite pick' polls.

Kos doesn't have to directly say "marginalize" this guy. When he slams a democrat and thinks he can get away with describing him as "Ugh" his readers know what the message is...

[BlooInBloo]

10. Oh. So he DIDN'T "urge" them. Thanks - clarifies everything.

[Beelzebud]

11. No they just put up front page stories slamming him for about 2 weeks after Dennis got in the race.

Sorry I insulted your hero, Kos.

Maybe you can help him put up his shiney new gates.

[BlooInBloo]

12. Just because I don't bite on people making shit up like you did ("urge his minions")...

... Doesn't mean Kos is my hero.


EDIT: This has been very clarifying - it shows that at least one side's word in the "debate" is not to be trusted.

[Beelzebud]

13. I didn't make shit up. When Kos says something, the clique at that site follow.

When Kos says you can sum up Kucinich with "Ugh", most of the people hoping to get a book signed at YearlyKos line up to agree.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Which you already agreed ISN'T "urging" - the making shit up charge is thus true....

... And presumably driven simply by your hatred of Kos for besmirching your fair maiden Kucinich.

[Nunyabiz]

36. why is it that you cant handle the truth

about your "fair maiden" DKos?

[BlooInBloo]

5. Never understood the kos-hatred on DU.

[Beelzebud]

7. Mine started after their assault on Kucinich.

I was a member of Kos before DU. Over time, once Markos had access to political insiders and money-men, things changed.

Kos wanted to "Crash the Gates" so he could erect his own.

[EFerrari]

23. I don't hate it but find it stupid to navigate, for one thing.

For another, Kos is the anti-Skinner -- sort of authoritarian and at times, sort of petulant. It takes a special kind of person to run a big board, to hold reasonable, consistent boundaries without unnecessarily quashing real discussions and it isn't happening at DKos.

I stopped going there when they shut down discussion on the election fraud issue.

[mod mom]

26. that Makes me feel better. I thought I was the only one who didn't like to navigate

Kos.

I also stopped over the election issue and sometimes am linked over there.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

27. Hi mod mom! DU has spoiled me I guess.

:hi:

[redacted]

32. EXACTLY! The Kos software setup makes no sense!

It's crazy to navigate, nonintuitive to use, and documentation helps little.

[EFerrari]

35. Add nonresponsive. I hate to bug our mods or admins

but every now then, I have to ask a question. Response rate for DU: 100%. Response rate at DKos: 0%

:shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. Which is why they were 80% behind Dean for President

4 years ago?
Your characterization of dkos is way off.

[LSK]

14. Hes going to be on with Hartmann today

[wtmusic]

16. Hmm

Seems Palast would do well do hold off on conclusions until he can make all his lists public.

Until then, we're left taking his word for it.

[blogslut]

17. wow

That place has really gotten out of hand.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Interesting! Do we know who this Drational is? There's only one other person I know of

who reacts to Palast as she did...and the other person is also a 'she'....are they the same person? Do you know?

We must keep in mind there are many, many RW operatives who would like nothing better than for this story to go away. Palast was SPOT on when he reported on the thousands of people PURGED from Florida's voter rolls. I'm sure this story is true as well and if it ever hits the MSM...the THUGS in the repuke party are going to look really, really bad. I just HOPE the Dems have enough balls to EXPOSE IT.

[blm]

20. No clue. in re to your other observation, I think the problem for election fraud ISSUE

is the fact that so many Dem STRATEGISTS and pundits are against it and need for it to be seen as a 'conspiracy theory' fantasy because they make their big bucks off advising Dem candidates how to tweak themselves to appeal to public and urging them to move right to do so so they have to SELL the idea that Gore and Kerry lost because they didn't appeal to values voters and moderates - THAT pays their mortgages - fixed election fraud doesn't.

[glitch]

21. We all need to remember that Cointelpro is legal again under the Patriot Act.

High profile people like Cindy Sheehan and Greg Palast are obvious targets. Cindy Sheehan even more so because she doesn't have the backing of a big corporation like the BBC.

And no, I am not saying that everyone who disagrees with something either has said is a cointelpro operative.

But it is very good to be aware of how they operate, and remember that attacking from within is a well-established tactic.

[EFerrari]

24. They arrested Palast, BBC ,or no, remember? n/t

[glitch]

25. Very true - it didn't work but that didn't keep them from trying did it?

Or maybe it did work if it established a chilling effect on other "journalists". But at least he has the backing of the BBC lawyers, which Cindy Sheehan doesn't have.

[EFerrari]

28. That's true. And all the credit in the world to Cindy

for taking risks most people wouldn't imagine or consider if they did.

[glitch]

29. Yes indeed. nt

[ray of light]

33. drational works with epluribus media and is a good faithful liberal

He and a group of people have been researching the USAGate emails and have helped keep the pressure on the Judiciary dept to keep investigating.

His original point that he repeatedly wrote Palast and asked for sourcing and was ignored was what started this flame war. He asked for proof. That's normally considered a very good thing, especially if you don't want to end up with egg on your face.

Both of them are 'on our side' and after having had the whole "Secret indictment of Rove" crap last year, we do need to make sure that our sources are giving us all the fact (they can) so we can better support ourselves our here and not be called conspiracy theorists.

[EFerrari]

22. I don't go there. Can some kind soul post a clue?

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. Here's some of it. It might be worth plugging your nose and taking a read...just this once, it's

very, very good. I hope you can decipher this copy/paste.:) :hi:


The Response
by GregPalast
Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:37:33 AM PDT

Note: This diary was written in response to the questions drational posted this weekend and is not a response to the apology drational issued this morning. The apology has been noted. Greg is currently on his way to DC for the BBC.

First of all, I never received a single email from you -- just a notice from a friend that I was being attacked on Daily KOS by you. It would have been nice of you to at least to contact my office and ask me about your concerns before performing a full fledge public attack on one of my stories. A story that I have spent a ton of time, money, and resources on. I do not have much time but typically I have no problem answering questions that are asked of me and my work. With that said, I will answer your questions below and then must move on to other stories and pending deadlines.

* GregPalast's diary :: ::
*

I'll also point out on the offset that while you've spent, as you say, 10 minutes looking into this, my team has been following this particular aspect of elections research for over three years now and it is not our policy to hand over sources or publicly disclose documents related to our ongoing investigations -- that is just basic journalistic ethics and standards that is perhaps foreign to the blogosphere but is something you should consider before contemplating future attacks on journalists.

Who at BBC can confirm the 70,000 names on 50 caging lists that you described on your 5/23/07 press release?

My producer, editor and lawyer(s) whose contact information is not public other than what you will find at BBC's website.

Although this statement from your DailyKos diary of May 23, 2007:

BBC obtained 50 'caging' lists with 70,000 voters including large groups of servicemen. Was available on your website at the above address until this diary appeared, the content has been archived throughout the web, e.g. here, and here.

I've been having site issues -- not sure why it isn't available ... any suggestions?

In another of your website pages, Still alive link, you also talk about the 500 emails and note 50 have caging lists attached. You then comment about 70,000 voters caged in Florida, making it appear that the 70,000 names came from the 50 lists attached to the 500 emails.

Yes, a certain number of caging lists were attached to those emails but there were also many other emails that have not yet been made public.

Since the original BBC article based on the "500 emails" reported this:

Two e-mails, prepared for the executive director of the Bush campaign in Florida and the campaign's national research director in Washington DC, contain a 15-page so-called "caging list".
It lists 1,886 names and addresses of voters in predominantly black and traditionally Democrat areas of Jacksonville, Florida.

It may help to point out that following the report you cite, our research continued and many, many more emails were uncovered.

a. Are these 500 emails to which you presently refer the same as the 500 emails on GeorgeWBush.org?

No, not all of them were from GeorgeWBush.org<snip>

[EFerrari]

31. Thank you very much!

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. You're welcome!

:hi: