One Nation Under Fear (yet another rant)

[cool user name]

On Nation Under Fear

When did this happen? Was there some set date in the history of the Union where the masses automatically succumbed to fear and along with it the acquiescence of power?

Look people, it's time to quit being stupid. You've been had and not necessarily by this administration but past administrations, too. Wake up. 9/11? Blowback for shit that was happening in 1979. Yes, shit that was going on in Iran and Afghanistan (and that's just one region) by our consent - even the covert operations are our fault because we fail to agitate for more open and less secretive government. We've been fucking countries over (think Nicaragua) since time immemorial and then we have the chutzpah to whine and carry on about them hating us? We even ask, "Why do they hate us?" Now, this debacle in Iraq has blowback written all over it, some of which we'll see in 10-15-20 years.

The president goes on ...

So he's planning on invading Iran according to all credible reports. Sure Bush says he's willing to negotiate diplomatically but where have I heard that before? Besides, we don't even have bilateral talks with Iran, how the hell are we going to negotiate with them? Why are we sending three Carrier Strike Groups (two of which are there) if we are going to negotiate with the Iranians?

People, don't you understand that war makes companies like Halliburton, KB&R, Lockheed Martin and others very, very rich? Wouldn't it follow that since things are kind of stagnated in Iraq, what with our troops being killed and all, that those who stand to profit agitate for war with Iran?

Stop living in fear with these stupid terror threats. There are terrorist attrocities everyday in almost every country. Most committed by us. People live with it because they fail to reign in their governments (cough, cough) when said governments don't play nicely with others in the neighborhood. You don't see Sweden or Norway being attacked, do you? Why?

So Bush yells at Iran, Iran yells back and both sides are quite happy to escalate this. The Iranian nutjob they call a president would like nothing better than to rally the most extremist of his people into a deathcult ready to kill as many unbelievers as he can. Our Dear Leader would like nothing better than to kill a bunch of Iranians so as to kill as many brown people as he can and show the world that we aren't to be trifled with - in other words, that we are to continue to fuck the world in the ass unabated. Any other country that wants to build a little deterrence to this is going to get a swift bunker buster up the wazzzooo. Yeah, I'm talking to you, Venezuela! We're already being propagandized to hate you as much as we do the Arabs and the Persians. Your leftist movement is a threat to us and our "national interests." We don't like threats.

So we're already being frightened. When we are frightened, look what happens. When Bush is cornered, cities die.

Be afraid. Be very, very afraid. You have reason to. We don't.

[magellan]

1. I'm afraid

...that things have gone way past the point of anyone being able -- even if they were willing -- to stop the criminals who are making money hand over fist playing us rabble for fools.

[cool user name]

2. That's a RATIONAL thing to fear ...

... because it is tangible. We see what is going on and it definitely is not good. Our lives are in peril at the hands of this government - far worse than anything Iran poses. The precipitating factor to terrorism is our policy in "containing" it. Fighting terror with terror is like fucking for virginity (yes, I stole that). It's insane. Insanity is something to fear because it leads to disastrous decision making. Climate change is something to fear.

Cartoon characters posted on sign posts are not something to fear, I'm afraid (how ironic).

[cool user name]

3. Kick since the site went down ... n/t

[cool user name]

4. Well, I posted this on another forum and got a response from a zombie.

We are a country of wealth and prosperity, even if not fairly distributed. We love life. Our enemies, the Islamic terrorists, love death and martyrdom. Remember what Zarqawi, an al-Qaeda leader in Iraq, said, "Killing the infidels is our religion, slaughtering them is our religion, until they convert to Islam or pay us tribute."

Let’s take a look at your first premise. “We are a country of wealth and prosperity …” Indeed, we are, as an aggregate very wealthy. What is dismissed or often overlooked is that the wealth is distributed and concentrated in the hands of a few. Millions of Americans live below poverty level. Millions more have no health insurance. So your premise is not only a non-sequitur, it is also false.

Second, regarding those who love death and martyrdom. I’d like to offer two points.

1) Those numbers are negligible at best. Those are the ideologues that thrive on instability, chaos and disorder. Firebrands such as Zarqawi and Bin Laden exploit situations where injustice is practiced, in fact, they state it openly. The National Intelligence Estimate released in October of last year confirmed that the war in Iraq actually increased terrorism – and that’s just terrorism emanating from the other side. Of course, we’d never call dropping bunker busters on villages with huge civilian casualties “terrorism.” In our parlance, it’s termed “collateral damage.” That goes to the extensive collective brainwashing to look at actual human beings as “collateral damage” as if we had just been in a national fender bender of sorts. What we tend to forget is that these are real people, with real family members – some of whom may want retribution. It’s no different here when I go into a bar and I hear near unanimity in just “nuking the Arabs.” It’s a mindset. It’s unhealthy at the national level and it is counter-productive to continue to wage war on an idea when it actually helps the enemy you claim to be fighting.
2) It’s a bit of stretch to extrapolate a few extremists who recruit for a cause and make blanket statements regarding about 1/6th of the planet. One billion Muslims live among many different nations. Are we so quick to condemn “them Christians” whenever an abortion clinic is bombed by a zealot? What of Timothy McVeigh? Are we to cast a shroud over Christians who love death? It’s inappropriate and serves no other purpose but to demonize people so that it is easier to wage war on them. The folks at Fox News or even CNN are culpable in acting as the propaganda arm of an Executive Branch that would love nothing more that for you to repeat their misrepresentations, obfuscations, distortions and misinformation. The media is supposed to be the Fourth Check, the Fourth Estate – in which it is to probe government policy and to facilitate transparency. It has failed to do this for too long.



Remember their reward when they carry out that command? They are immediately lifted to heaven at the side of God, and are provided the services of 72 virgins. Can we in the Judeo-Christian Western world compete? Our reward is not so clearly spelled out by our biblical teachings and in such detail. We know there is a heaven and a hell, and heaven is far better.

This is another non-sequitur. Is this the only motive for carrying out terrorism? Absolutely not. I would remind you that fundamentalism of any kind, whether Islamic, Christian, or Jewish, is extremely dangerous and inherently unstable. We are not bombing Timothy McVeigh’s hometown because of his terrorist attacks in Oklahoma City, are we?


Islamic terrorists are willing to wait the years needed to overcome our forces. They know they have the support of those Americans, British, Spaniards and French and others who wish to surrender to the terrorists' threats and get out of Iraq. Because of the threats, some countries have never gone into Iraq. Others have already withdrawn from Iraq and still others threaten to do so. Our army in Iraq, according to our former Secretary of State, Colin Powell, is "about broken." Lt. General David Petraeus, who has just been confirmed to head our surge of forces in Iraq, has said our situation in Iraq is "dire."


Irrespective of whether or not we should have gone into Iraq in the first place (my emphasis), and I believe we were right to do so because of CIA director George Tenet's statement that WMD in Iraq was a "slam dunk," it is surely a fact that today Iraq is a center of terrorism. While Shia and Sunni hate one another and are embroiled in a civil war, they are united in their hate of America and the culture of the Western world and were we to leave Iraq, they will seek to follow us across the sea in their endeavor to kill us, unless we convert or pay tribute.

You wish to dismiss the very premise of my very argument (the part I bolded) and then carry on as if that premise is true. That’s not only disingenuous but it indicates and unwillingness to even debate the actual issue – one that I brought up in my opening post. That is that we invaded a country (and became a world pariah in doing so) out of fear, unhealthy, unwarranted, and irrational fear and we are about to make the same mistake again about going into Iran. Your point regarding our Army being broken is irrelevant at this stage. If an invasion of Iran is the policy this administration wishes to engage in, it will happen with our Navy and Air Force and Special Operations units on the ground. That still doesn’t preclude us from receiving any type of backlash that Iran may engage in in her defense.


So, what options do we have? The President has offered one, the "surge." I hope it works, but I doubt it. Then there is the option of telling our allies, regional and NATO, that after the surge is tried and if it fails, we are withdrawing unless they come in and stand with us shoulder-to-shoulder. If they do not and we leave Iraq, I believe their borders -- Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey, the Gulf states -- will be overrun by fleeing Sunni followed by the guns and swords of the Shia majority, and terrorists who will pretend to be refugees.

Other strategies were offered. The Baker-Hamilton a.k.a Iraq Study Group said that engaging in direct negotiations with the Iranians and Syrians to help stabilize the region would be our best bet. A redeployment of our troops in the surrounding states would help contain any spill over that is sure to occur. No one said it was going to be easy but this is what we are given. Instead, the President wants to surge more troops to their deaths in an adventure that near consensus, both military and civilian has said is sure to fail. How can you explain this? Bush is the decider? Why doesn’t his twin daughters volunteer? This is pure insanity. It’s not going to make the situation better. It will make it much worse. Iran is a whole other kettle of fish to fry. They have an advanced army, missile defense, size, terrain and Russia, India and China as allies. Hardly a cake walk while we are still stranded in Iraq.


When these regional allies contemplate that future event, they may conclude having us remain is a better alternative. We should try it. I believe it will work. If it doesn't, we should get out.

Nations will do what is in their best interests. The US is not going to be the world’s superpower for much longer and in fact, we are accelerating our fall from grace. It is with this thinking that we should re-engage as a responsible nation among nations and work to resolve our disputes in a civilized manner. I mean, after all, that is what we expect of others, is it not?