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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 10:06 AM
Original message
Rolling Thunder



{1} "The feathered and blanketed figure of the American Indian has come to symbolize the American continent. He is the man who through the centuries has been molded and sculpted by the same hand that shaped its mountains, forests and plains, and marked the course of its rivers.

"The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the land that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers; he belongs just as the buffalo belonged. …

"The white man does not understand America. He is too far removed from its formative processes. The roots of the tree of his life have not yet grasped the rock and soil. The white man is still troubled with primitive fears; he still has in his consciousness the perils of this frontier continent, some of its fastnesses not yet having yielded to his questing footsteps and inquiring eyes." – Land of the Spotted Eagle; Luther Standing Bear; Boston & New York; 1923.

This essay is not about Indians. At least not in the sense of what "we" should do to "save" the Indians. It is, instead, about what we might consider as we take steps to save ourselves and our communities. Just as the Indian has come to symbolize the continent, the truth is that what this country has done to Indians for 241 years is what it is doing to many of us today. And that is no coincidence.

When I was young, I used to help an elderly man collect herbs that he sold to white people. He was a strange man, caught half-way between the native world and the modern culture. He once told me, as we were preparing a small fire to cook on and stay warm, that "the white man makes a huge bon-fire, and has to stay back from it, and so his back stays cold; the Indian makes a little fire, and can sit close to it, and stay warm."

I think that describes our "consumer society." It’s a big fire, that requires a huge amount of fuel. But it leaves us cold, and so we throw on more fuel, mistakenly thinking that’s going to warm us. It’s a system that, as John Trudell notes, not only destroys the Natural World with toxin waste, but requires that human beings be polluted internally, in order to become part of that toxic culture.

In 1735, Handsome Lake was born in the village of Conawagas, near what is now Avon, NY. He was from the Turtle Clan of the Seneca Nation. The Seneca are the "western door" of the Iroquois’ Longhouse, and so his people didn’t feel the full impact of the white culture until after the Revolutionary War. After that war, we know that Handsome Lake began to drink heavily, in an attempt to ease the pain he felt in his life.

It can take more than strong drink to make a man or woman into a drunk. The communities that were Handsome Lakes’ world seemed at the mercy of distance forces over which the local people had little control. The adults saw their children suffering, and they felt hopeless and helpless.

Few people wanted to be around him, because he had been so obnoxious a drunk. As John Trudell said, people have to be poisoned within, in order for the system to become fully toxic. By 1794, Handsome Lake lay wasting from the diseases that alcohol both cause and contribute to. One of his adult daughters helped to care for him in his near-empty cabin, but he spent much time in isolation. There was a period of time he went in and out of consciousness, and he would later describe being taken on a journey by four beings.

In 1798, he began to tell of his vision, and of how his people needed to reform their way of life to survive. Today, this is known as the Gai’ wio’, or the Code of Handsome Lake. By 1802, he was a visitor to Washington, DC, along with some traditional leaders from the Seneca and Onondaga Nation. Those who study Thomas Jefferson are aware of his interest in and admiration of Handsome Lake.

You don’t have to be an Indian to appreciate the similarities between the deterioration of Handsome Lake’s culture in 1794, and that of our own, today. You can see most clearly from the margins of our society. "The thing that has been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun." – Ecclesiastes 1:9 (The Preacher).





{2} "They started unzipping them. I finally came to recognize one. It was my buddy, Richard. I won’t describe what I saw. Rage and revenge set in on me. …. I continued to drink myself numb. In combat, I was relentless. I was full of rage. In fire-fights, I would never put my head down. My urge to kill was overwhelming. It was with me the rest of my time in Viet Nam. The fear I used to have had become a thrill. Killing became thrilling. I didn’t have any fear.

"As I talk about this now, I know my memories of Viet Nam will be with me forever. They will never leave. Many different feelings come back to me from time to time – it doesn’t take much to trigger them. Sometimes when I hear the rain, I think of the monsoon season, . I meditate to relieve myself of the horror, of what I experienced over there. I can’t explain the memories. Sometimes I feel as though I am still over there ….as if it’s real. Sometimes I think about how hungry or how thirsty I used to get ….what it was like to witness the carnage and death of men – our own and the enemy. The smell of death was with me for a long time." Richard Thomas; from "Wounded Warriors"; Little Turtle Publications; 1995.

Clinical psychologist Doyle Arbogast authored the book "Wounded Warriors," to show how Indian spirituality helped 17 different people recover from the damage done by our modern society. It is the story of individual healing, and more: just as Trudell’s point about a poison system needs to poison individuals, a community/society that heals requires individuals who help remove that poison. Handsome Lake did this in 1798; Richard Thomas and the others in this book do it 200 years later.

There are many poisons in our culture: the violence within families; abuse of illegal drugs and addiction to legal ones; poverty; crime; and many more. Sometimes we do not fully appreciate the fact that the "leadership" in our society is just as sick as the margins of our society. Maybe sicker.

Arbogast recognized that the healing that the individuals and communities in Indian country required wouldn’t happen as a result of some action taken in Washington, DC. In fact, it could only come in spite of the poison that comes from Washington, DC. He saw that it wasn’t coming from any one "religion," but rather from the powerful force he calls "spirituality."

For many of those individuals who have been poisoned by the toxins of modern society, it includes participating in a 12-step program. It is interesting to note that Handsome Lake formed the first "support groups" to help individuals maintain sobriety. Becoming healthy again takes place one day at a time. As an individual heals, he/she helps to heal their family and their community.

The idea of healing the ills of individuals and communities as the building-block for building a healthy nation is not the exclusive property of Indians. When we examine the programs and goals of the groups that were considered "black nationalists" in the 1960s, we find over and over attempts to pull people out of the gutter, and to exert local, community control.

Doyle Arbogast opens his book with a quote from "The Realms of Healing," by Stanley Krippner and Albert Villodo: "The spirit is returning to the Indians and is extending to young people across the country. Many of them are becoming spiritual warriors. That doesn’t mean they are going to make war. Being a spiritual warrior means becoming a complete person. It means having consideration for other people, and finding spirituality through truth and beauty."





{3} "Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightening, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
‘Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!’ cries she
With silent lips. ‘Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door1’ "
(The New Colossus; Emma Lazarus; 1883)

When Bill Moyers interviewed Onondaga Chief Oren Lyons for PBS in the 1980s, he asked, "You’ve said on other occasions that there has to be a spiritual change if we are going to face these environmental issues. What kind of spiritual change?"

Oren responded, "We don’t preach here in this, our country. You know, we don’t proselytize. As a matter of fact, we try to protect what we have from intrusion. And yet at a meeting that was held in Hopi in 1969 when we sat there with many Indian leaders from around the country, spiritual leaders, they talked about these young people who were sitting on our doorsteps every day when we got up. They had come from all over the country, and they had come to learn something about us. And we said this is a very strange phenomenon, you know, that our white brothers’ children are coming to our doorstep, and wanting to be part of us. What do we do with this?

"So one of the Hopi elders said, ‘Well, we have a prophecy about that. It is said that there would come a time that they’re going to come and ask a direction. Maybe this is what’s happening.’ So it came under discussion by the elders, and it was agreed upon that this may be true. And if it is, then we should be more responsive to the questions. "

Moyers asked Lyons about how this could be done, and the Onondaga Chief explained that Indian society was based upon community. And that community is defined by mutual support, about sharing, and about working together to reach common goals.

Again, there is no new thing: during the mid- to late-1700s, men like Jefferson and Franklin were in frequent contact with the Iroquois nations’ leaders. They were influenced by Iroquois political philosophy. Read Franklin’s 1754 Albany Plan of Union, or the 1777 Articles of Confederation, and you see the Iroquois’ influence on the leaders of the Revolutionary War.

The "leaders" in Washington DC tend to be a lot closer to King George than they are to Franklin or Jefferson. They are not going to bring about any meaningful change in the direction this culture is headed in on their own. The few who are advocating a revolutionary change in direction, such as Al Gore, are making it clear that this can only be accomplished by changes at an individual level on the part of the average citizens.

Luther Standing Bear wrote that "it is now time for a destructive order to be reversed … The Indian can save America." The power to change the "destructive order" is within the grass-roots. It’s only going to be accomplished by starting at the community level. And it requires Wounded Warriors to take the positions of leadership.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. My God, This Is A Titanic Effort
As John Trudell said, people have to be poisoned within, in order for the system to become fully toxic.

I'd say we now have a full measure of toxicity
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Right.
"We must seek out the spiritual people because only that is going to help us survive. we have a great force -- a great brotherhood.This brotherhood involves all living things. And that, of course, includes us all. We are talking about the natural world, the natural force, all the trees, everything that grows, the water. That is part of our force.

"But when you gather spiritual force in one place, you also gather the negative force. We begin to perceive the enemy now, the power and presence of the negative force.

"There is a great battle coming."

-- Oren Lyons
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. That picture of the olympic athletes has always disturbed me
Not for their fist upraised but for their heads downcast...
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Their heads are down in humility and prayer...
Their fists are up in defiance.
Their shoes are off and their pant legs are rolled up in protest of poverty.
Their heads are bowed in humility and prayer.



DemocracyNow! did a recent interview with Tommie Smith (the other two on the dias are John Carlos - USA and Peter Norman - Australian)...

TOMMIE SMITH: So, John Carlos and Tommie Smith decided in the dungeon, only a few minutes before the victory stand, what they were going to do. I had asked my wife earlier to bring me a pair of gloves from California. She had not left to come to Mexico yet. So I asked her to bring me gloves after the meeting. And I didn’t know what I was going to do with the gloves, but I knew I had to make a representation of my feelings, and it would have to be silent, had to be respectful, and it would have to be visual. And this is the raised fist. I had the right glove, John Carlos had the left glove. They were gloves, which my wife brought from California. And it was a cry for freedom. When both fists went up in the air, very justified in that they went up, not undignified or disrespect to the flag. We did face the flag. We didn't turn our back on the flag. But it was a silent gesture. It was a prayer in hope that our system would become a stronger system in representing all of its people equally, human, and civilly.

AMY GOODMAN: Tommie Smith, that moment when you put your hand up in the fist and you had a black glove over it, people often say the two right arms and a fist, but, of course, it wasn't, because you only had one pair of gloves, so one of you wore the right and one of you wore the left, you and John Carlos. But then, there's also the bottom part of that picture -- your feet -- that you and John Carlos were not wearing shoes, were not wearing your sneakers or your running shoes, as they call it today. You were wearing black socks. Explain the significance of these socks.

TOMMIE SMITH: As I said earlier, we had to make it respectful and visual. Of course, the gloves represented power. The bare feet represented poverty. We took our shoes off, rolled our uniform, which was blue, up around our gastrocnemius muscle, and to make visual the need for a security in the way that people were being treated, jobs that we did not have, which we should have. And, you know, this is not a representation just of black athletes. It was our entire community -- in fact, people of color most anywhere. So this Olympic Project for Human Rights didn't just represent the black athlete or the black citizen in the country. It was a cry for freedom for those who had no way to make justified their feelings.

PETER NORMAN: It makes me pretty proud to be part of a demonstration that has lasted this long, that was as meaningful as it was, that had this response over the years. The things that were going on in the States and, indeed, all around the world, but more importantly in the States, the things that were going on with the riots and everything, and amid all this anger, the hostility, the violence, here’s two guys that after an Olympic event sacrificed what would probably have been the greatest moment in their life, as far as personal glory is concerned. And they sacrificed that to pay homage to the cause that they felt so strongly about.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Peter Norman, the Australian sprinter who came in second and stood on the dais with Tommie Smith and John Carlos. David Steele, Tommie Smith and John Carlos were the pallbearers at Peter Norman's funeral just a few months ago. The significance of this white athlete standing with the two black athletes? I believe he had said he would have worn a glove, except that they only had one pair, and there wasn't enough for him.

Officials at the Olympic Games managed to quell any disruption until two black Americans, Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who finished first and third in the 200-meter run, bowed their heads and, at great personal risk to themselves, raised their fists in the Black Power salute during the national anthem as a protest against racism in the U.S.


Wednesday, February 21st, 2007
Silent Gesture: Gold-Medalist Tommie Smith on His Historic Black Power Salute at 1968 Olympics
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/21/1523224
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Intense.
Thank you for posting that.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. THank you. I didn't know the significance of the bare feet.
I appreciate that people like me were thought of by these two patriots!!

We are mostly ignored, and to be thought of symbolically means much!

:applause:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" was a wake up call.
And since then being awakened to what it all was ...has been an experience. Vine DeLoria's Books, too are a good read if we want to go back to make some historical sense. But, I've not read all of Vine's books...it's hard to deal with so much "wake up."
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
46. I met John Carlos about 10 years ago...
one of the biggest thrills of my life. An incredibly nice and thoughtful man.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Wow! That must've been wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. (n/t)
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for sharing this
I have learned a lot about the earth and spirituality from reading Indian authors and listening to Indian teachers, more so than Merton though he was my father's novice master.

I am reading an early book by whale conservationist and activist Captain Paul Watson. He tells about how he snuck into Wounded Knee when the FBI had them surrounded. He and a friend helped some as medics. He was initiated into the Oglala Sioux tribe by Leonard Crow Dog and Wallace Black Elk. And he had a vision there too during a sweat lodge of a buffalo and this helped him focus on his path of helping the whales. I can't imagine just jumping into a fray like that. It takes amazing bravado.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Years ago,
a guy from a group called "Trout Unlimited" called me. He was a dedicated and very talented environmentalist. I really liked him. He asked if Chief Waterman and I might join that group?

We really thought highly of it, but as Paul explained, as an Onondaga Chief, he needed to be in "minnow unlimited." Yet we could always coordinate efforts.

Every plant and animal on earth plays a significant role in the web of life. Only one is different, and that is the human. When we use the Power of the Good Mind, we recognize the wonderful opportunity this gives us humans, to study all of those plants and animals. That's what the environmentalists do, and the best scientists. That is what Captain Watson does with his work with the whales.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Fever!
"There are many poisons in our culture: the violence within families; abuse of illegal drugs and addiction to legal ones; poverty; crime; and many more. Sometimes we do not fully appreciate the fact that the "leadership" in our society is just as sick as the margins of our society. Maybe sicker."

Also, may I say, time to lance the boil.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Living separately from nature. Apart.
I want to say that I understand. And I am thankful that I am not alone in that understanding. For so many years I only knew of one or two who did, and it was hell. You might not laugh at this, but my lifelong friend made up a business card. Of course it was in jest, but there was a serious truth to it. His occupation stated "Hunter gatherer". He continues to be one of the most insightful people I've ever known.

We are of the same flesh. Even though we act like we are of different species called "races", there is actually no difference between us, physically. And this truth is a kind of equilibrium. The truth that brought the children to the doorstep. We can only depart from the reality of nature so far, and then sickness and discomfort bear on us as a restoring force.

I love riding my bicycle through forests. It's what I live for. It's not a substitute for a healthy society. But it is the best I know. Yesterday I had a meeting with several people. A friend from college, and someone who I met on an internet bike forum. It was a great event. 25 miles of beauty in redwood forests. Most of the day we exerted our bodies in a pretty dramatic way, up steep mountain trails.

Then last night I was invited to meet the parents of one of my riding friends. I'm not sure I can describe this the way I experienced it. But it is a response to your post in the way of an example. This is Mendocino. Cliffs with crashing surf. This was once a place of great peace. The western coast of this continent. Where the sun set. The parents live in what is now a subdivision. Not a typical one. Houses of 20,000 square feet. Architectural masterpieces. Or monsters. Depending upon who is viewing. As I entered the area, what was rolling pastures is now the equivalent of urban sprawl, but with some distance between the houses. Maybe each place has two or three acres. When you talk about sickness, that is the feeling I feel when I see things like this. I am disgusted. Their house is multiple levels on the side of a small cliff. White rugs, frilly veiled curtains. Antique furniture. Massive windows that expose a 180 degree view of the coast line. They watch the sun set on the horizon every day of the year. And I'm disgusted. Not by wealth. But by the thought that no longer will a native family sit on that hill and watch, in peace. Because what I see is not part of nature. What I see is selfish. Not in wealth, but in the beauty they have stolen from everyone who looks upon it. Here I sit in a million dollar home, with the feeling of poverty.



I suppose everyone saw this when I posted it. Even if the sound is badly done, I cannot stop enjoying this video, for it is an expression of the sickness. And that may be the beginning of recovery. I can only hope. And I too feel the pain the native Americans feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf40JOx2dWw
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. H2O Man, Have you read any Daniel Quinn? n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. No, I don't
believe I have. Would you recommend something in particular?

Thanks,
Pat
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you for this
Cindy Sheehan says no matter where she goes, the African Americans get it, the Native Americans get it, the Hispanic Americans get it, and since 9/11, the Muslim Americans get it. We are all in the same boat now, since this waste of human flesh has been our president.

And this brings me hope.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. I think that
we need to re-establish a "rainbow coalition" within the democratic party. Not headed by one person, or one small centralized group. But a larger, decentralized coalition of groups. We need to revisit the success that Jesse was having in 1984 and '88, and examine what forces -- both within and outside the party -- worked to limit the growth of that movement.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great post
K & R
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. "at the mercy of distance forces over which the local people had little control."
We in New Orleans can relate to this story H2O Man.



Since our levees were not rebuilt and are worse off than before Katrina, we assume that we are being left to die.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. "...requires Wounded Warriors to take the positions of leadership."
A wonderful read....thanks!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you. n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That can only happen when "wounded warriors" are listened to.
That ain't happening.

:(
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. I see a convergence with your thoughts here, and what little I know of Gore's new book.
It's all about US getting our shit together, and doing the hard work towards building community.

NO, it's NOT all about the RW and bushistas-- I hope readers of Gore's book finally get that.

It's more about.... what a priest said in a sermon many years ago. It was during a time of much discussion about pornography, and what does and does not constitute pornography. In his sermon, the priest was asked his definition of pornography.

His reply? "My concept of pornography is the whole concept of 'us' and 'them'".

I still think that boils it down to the essence of what we are facing.

And the "us and them" is just as prevalent here on DU as anywhere else. Why else would there be such little attention given to poverty issues?
We poor folk are consigned to the "them", and we can participate with the "us" as long as we focus on what the "us" focuses on---mainly, the war.

If we diverge into what OUR issues are, we are mostly ignored, or have our threads locked and told to "seek help". (Yes, it's happened to more than one of us.)

There are people RIGHT HERE AT DU who say Health Care For All isn't important now. Only the wwwwwaaaaaarrrr is worthy of attention. So, all those dying of lack of health care are on their own. How's that for "us and them"?

I don't see much hope for community given this atmosphere.

And, you are exactly right, community is the only way out of this mess.

I had some hope back in the days when Peck's book, "Different Drum" came out, but...... that faded, like it all does.

I think this country will have to completely crash before people are willing to give up their rugged individualism, and that includes "liberals" and "progressives".
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. We are crashing and the Media Coverup with the CNBC's "Business Pudits"
are "tapdancing as fast as they can."

We cannot sustain this Debt and Trade Imbalance much longer. No matter how many Hedge Fund Players and Private Equity Groups we have who are propping this imbecile up.

It will not last. There's nothing but paper money from the Bush Treasury Printing Press between us and a grim awakening.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Bobbie - Whoa! I was just writing about Gore & Peck yesterday...
Over here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=260x1003#1004

I haven't read "Different Drummer" -- I've read "Road Less Traveled" and started to read "People of the Lie"

:hi:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. GREAT MINDS, and all that... ~~gigglesnort~~
Thank you for dragging me into that "other" forum...~~chortle~~

The significant part of what you quoted is:

* communicate with authenticity
* deal with difficult issues
* welcome and affirm diversity
* bridge differences with integrity
* relate with love and respect

THAT is what is so necessary, and so lacking, right here at DU!!!

If we would just do that much, it would go far to creating peace.

If I may suggest to you, this is what Different Drum (no -mer) is about... creating community. I hope you will take that one up now, and then continue with People Of The Lie. Yes, I think it's that important, and as you say, dovetails with The Assault On Reason (great title!)

http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/books/church-growth/scott-peck.htm

"In and through community lies the salvation of the world."


"...the members of a group in some way must commit themselves to one another if they are to become or stay a community. Exclusivity, the great enemy to community, appears in two forms; excluding the other and excluding yourself. ...

"A friend correctly defined community as "group that has learned to transcend its individual differences." But this learning takes time, the time that can be bought only through commitment." 62





"The community-building process requires self-examination from the beginning. ..."Are we still on target? Are we a healthy group?...

"What a genuine community does do... is recognize its ill health when it occurs and quickly take appropriate action to heal itself. Indeed, the longer they exist the more efficient healthy communities become in this recover process." 66

We so very badly need to get to that "self-examination" stage. We blame everything on the RW, and don't look at ourselves, even our toxic interactions on DU.

IT'S TIME.

Thanks for bringing this up.

It's too much to hope that it could become an actual conversation.

:(
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Self-examination - Oh, yes!
This is one of the best aspects of "Assault on Reason" so far -- he is looking way, way beyond "Bush Administration" to ask why WE were so vulnerable to obvious manipulation.

The only person I can change is me. Blaming someone else does nothing to improve our current circumstances because it is really just a demand for them to change, which they probably won't do.

Recognizing ill health when it occurs and taking appropriate action to heal - that is huge, really huge.

Right now I want to finish "Assault on Reason" and after that I want to read "Earth in the Balance".

I do want to get to "People of the Lie" sometime this summer and I'll check the library to see if I can get "Different Drum" and read it before or along with "People of the Lie".

:hi:

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. "Who are my mother and my brothers?"
Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother."

The above is absolutely pivotal to Christianity, as is clear from Christ's own description of the Last Judgment in Matthew 24: 31 - 46. In the end, it's not about religion as we know it, prayer, liturgy or ritual sacrifice; in one quite fundamental sense, it's simply accepting the grace to choose to do what many non-human mammals are moved to by instinct - to look after each other.* A tall order in a fallen world, plummeting ever faster into the Abyss, particularly, it seems, for those whose hearts are set on an ever-increasing abundance of wordly possessions.

*It happens that the beneficial role of mainstream religions (whatever their manifold and sometimes heinous institutional failings) and of the kind of native American spirituality to which H2O refers, is nowadays under siege by atheists overt and covert - to the horrifying detriment of the same materialistic Western society they so flagrantly misgovern.

The result is an endless splintering and fragmentation, which leads to exclusive concentration on personal agendas and neglect of what should be the over-arching priorities of other peoples' most basic needs. Social ties are sundered and give way to an ever-increasing anomie and violence.

It's all spelt out very clearly in the post-war (WWII) history of the UK. So much of the good achieved by the early Socialists (substantially based on a Gospel interpetation of economic justice), despite the indifferent character of so many of its leaders, has been traduced by the ever more prevalent atheists, who now virtually monopolise it. Ironically, one of the most striking losses occasioned by their dominance is a loss of the most elementary common sense. The blind leading an increasingly blind society. It seems as if only the people "at the sharp end" can see the madness being daily perpetrated by their putative betters.

It has to be said that this catastrophic state we are currently in must in large part be attributed to the failure of institutional Church leaders, firstly to promote those Gospel economic values, and then to prevent the work of its Christian founder, Keir Hardie, being taken over and distorted by opportunistic atheists, by taking up the task themselves. Writing learned Ecyclicals was never going to make the impact that was required.

Certainly, in Italy, there was no squeamishness on the part of clergy in promoting the political right to their flock at elections. But in any case, it is quite clear from Christ's fulminations against the Synagogue and religious Establishment of his day, as described in the Gospels, that economic justice and railing against the oppression of the more innately spiritual poor by the worldly should have become at the very least one of its absolute priorities.

That would not have been possible in the early Church, but mankind's move, however halting, towards the small measure of democracy we have until recently enjoyed, should have been seen by the church as a green light - although ideally, that same move should have come from the institutional Church, itself, of course. It's not even as if the betterment of all of mankind's lot on earth was scorned by the Church; indeed, it sees it as its one of its most primary duties!

Marx, a Jew, had been brought up as a Catholic and his sense of justice and compassion were clearly inspired by both the Jewish and the Christian scriptures. (The debt Christians owe to the Jews cannot be overstated). When Marx stated that the tragedy of the poor was the poverty of their desires, the Church should have understood what he was driving at - even if, in the final analysis, we should recognise poverty (in the sense, at least, of modest means) as a blessing.

I interpret the following Psalm 81(82) as a condemnation of religious leaders who fail to purposefully commit themselves to attacking the oppressors of the poor:

God stands in the divine assembly.
in the midst of the gods he gives judgment.

'How long will you judge unjustly
and favour the cause of the wicked?
Do justice for the weak and the orphan,
defend the afflicted and the needy.
Rescue the weak and the poor;
set them free from the hand of the wicked.

Unperceiving they grope in the darkness
and the order of the world is shaken.
I have said to you, "You are gods
and all of you sons of the Most High."
And yet, you shall die like men,
you shall fall like any of the princes.'

Arise O God, judge of the earth,
for you rule all the nations.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
43. Maybe - in the middle of this shitstorm - it's finally becoming time to reflect.
It sounds like people are finally reaching the inevitable conclusion that it comes down to them. Superman won't save us. Any Gore fans who hear the message - really hear it - will be prepared to do some heavy lifting. Changing mindsets is not easy, but more effective on the interpersonal level than through one-sided mass media.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. thanks. beautifully grounding piece.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. "I will tell you something about stories" -- Silko

Ceremony

I will tell you something about stories



They aren’t just entertainment.

Don’t be fooled.

They are all we have, you see,

all we have to fight off illness and death.


 Storyteller
     
 

You don’t have anything

if you don’t have the stories.
 
     
 

Their evil is mighty

but it can’t stand up to our stories.

So they try to destroy the stories

let the stories be confused or forgotten.

They would like that

They would be happy

Because we would be defenseless then.
 
     

Pierre Bonirote's Storyteller 


He rubbed his belly.

I keep them here



Here, put your hand on it

See, it is moving.

There is life here

for the people.
 
     
 

And in the belly of this story

the rituals and the ceremony

are still growing.

-- Leslie Marmon Silko
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Storytellers aren't effective in a vacuum.
What we lack is the COMMUNITY to *listen* to the storytellers.

I can tell you plenty of storytellers right near me... poor people who have much to tell, much to share, and much to learn from. Yet, NO ONE will listen.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Aren't stories society's memory?
Maybe this is why we're having Bush the sequel.

I was just thinking "Kindler and gentler". The Bush family has been the antithesis of kinder and gentler to this world. And had we been passing down our experiences, maybe people would have learned to avoid another Bush.

I don't know. I take for granted that I grew up in a progressive town. Maybe I'm just wishing everyone actually cared.

I think the societal memory stories play is a longer term foundation. One in which people learn to avoid fascism altogether.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. Another one from Silko: "Nobody ever said it would be easy."
:hug:
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R.nt
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
:kick:
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. BRAVO !!!!
I am so proud to have just an eyedropper of the blood that ran through the veins of my Ancestors of the Onondagas. I have been struggling with the "Religiosity" I was raised in, and the deep Spirituality that I have been feeling lately. The Spiritual has become more important to me, and gives me more freedom to accept and respect others. It has made me more liberal, thus liberated! Another great essay from my spiritual brother Waterman! Thank you, thank you!!:applause: :yourock:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-27-07 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. The good mind


is what the Peacemaker called it: when humans work together for the benefit of all.

Thanks for another healthy read. The Code of Handsome Lake would trouble some people, with its admonitions against "witchcraft" and abortion, but it is dead on as concerns the environment, greed and violence.

I try not to judge Americans who never want to get the tiniest bit dirty, or who try to erase all traces of the natural world from their surroundings. But I wonder how much they will miss the trees and the fruits and the clean water they take for granted.

When I was in Atlanta, it was illegal to hang clothes on the line in the community where I last lived. Over our roofs was a blazing sun, offering to dry the wash for free, but people had to use $$$ to dry their clothes inside their homes (on hot summer days) or at the laundromat. And humans wonder why there are blackouts of electricity at peak times?

People need to start using their "good minds" to figure out how to make their own communities less dependent on dwindling, more costly resources.

Drying your clothes outside in Atlanta in the summer is a no-brainer, but is nonetheless forbidden, and that's just the result of too many people not using their own intellectual resources very efficiently.

IMHO, of course.


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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
50. Appearances are everything to these people.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. I know. It's really stunning how far people go


to 'look' clean and healthy without actually thinking for a moment whether or not our habits actually are contributing to a clean and healthy place to live.

But we have to start rethinking how much we tax our own resources. To do the opposite - by continuing to each abuse what we have now - is foolish and expensive and dangerous at this point.



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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. Warriors of the Rainbow

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. A story: the Legend of the Rainbow Warriors
Don't be "Left Behind."

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-9.html

"In brief, the legend of the rainbow warriors says that when the Earth becomes desperately sick some of the people will recognize that they are destroying themselves and their Earth Mother. With spiritual insight and support, the rainbow warriors — people of all colors and faiths — will come to the rescue using only peaceful means, eventually establishing a long and joyous reign of peace."

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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Thanks, SpiralHawk
Great link! Warriors of the Rainbow are us!

We have been telling our children and grandchildren of these legends for years! It is definately a "Lifestyle Choice". Peace is where you MAKE it! We have Rainbow Days in honor of the stories. We take the Grandkids to the Farmers Market with a color list and plans to find foods so that we "EAT a Rainbow". They have to find something of each color. We all walk the labyrinth and the center each of us declares our membership as a "Warrior of the Rainbow."

It is always funny to watch the interaction with the produce vendors when the little ones tell them they are going to EAT A RAINBOW!


I did not know that the Moonies were behind the Left Behind series. Yikes, that says alot!
I read those damn books and I can't believe anyone in their right mind would take as a PLAN!

DO NO HARM!




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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
35. Kick for peace and love....
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
36. The way I always heard it...
..."The Indian makes a small fire; stays warm by staying close. The white man makes a big fire; stays warm by gathering fire wood."

Another funny apocryphal story I heard:
NASA had a crew out in the Southwestern desert practicing for a moon landing. A couple of Dineh (Navajo) ride up and ask what's going on. When told, the older native asks if he can give them a message for the astronauts to give to any people they might find living on the moon. The NASA folks humor him and the old man teaches them to say it phonetically.

Sometime later, one of the crew runs into someone who can translate the message the old Dineh wanted passed along to any lunar residents. The message? "Watch these guys. They'll take your land."
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
48. Very Cute Story
Thanks for the laugh
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. kick
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for all this H2OMan
It is just more proof that I haven't wasted the last five years writing my book, which in the end is basically all about Spiritual Change and the Enviromental movement, although it's couched in an adventure tale, and the Overarching metaphor of the "jesus bolt", that one thing which holds all the rotors on the helicopter, while we were looking for Uranium deep in the Tundra of ANWR (Alaska), if that fell out, the next person we'd be talking to would have been Jesus, Himself :)

What holds the Universe together, the Ecosystems, YOU, ME? (I say it's The Jesus Bolt in my work)..

There is no other option. As was also written in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence", "Quality Begins with the Individual..". Gore's been saying it for years, this is a MORAL Obligation.

As always much enjoyment of your writing. If you'd ever want to read one of the few copies I'm sending around to select individuals, I'd be honored to send you a copy for review. I'm getting some pretty rave reviews so far.

Keep getting the Truth out there, we're gonna Need People like You, when the Humans take over :)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. Rolling Thunder
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. It was also
a collection of musicians who toured the country, playing music to raise money for Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, and Marvin Gaye (who shaved his head, "Hurricane" style) all took part.

In 1975-'76, we thought we had won -- because we were right. But we found out that "the system" -- including people who were "bad," and some who were nice people, but cogs in that machine -- didn't always do what was "right." The set-back hurt. Many fell away from the effort.

But in the early '80s, something changed. And it wasn't the law.

When that change took place, we knew: it was time to "roll back the rock."

The story can be found in "Lazarus & the Hurricane," or in "Hurricane" (Hirsch's book is the betterof the two).
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
40. For the record, for the present time: Odyssey of the 8th Fire
Edited on Mon May-28-07 08:04 AM by SpiralHawk
Thanks for your post H20 - wonderful, as always.

For further depth, around Earth Changes, and prophecy, and the wisdom tht is the native heritage of everyone living on this continent, I recommend the epic saga -- still unfinished -- Odyssey of the 8th Fire

http://www.8thfire.net/
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. The land is crying out to us to be one with it again
If we would only listen.


Thank you for this, my friend. :hug:
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
57. Rolling Thunder Speaks
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
44. Yes. Thank you.
The material world is over. Coming: world of ether.

We are all Indians now. Choice: vision quest and real work or crawl into a (pill, liquor, zealot) bottle that makes us numb as our mother gets destroyed.

What ever the path we choose, we die. Might as well make life have purpose and be mindful before death comes.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. "The power to change the "destructive order" is within the grass-roots. It’s only going to be ...
Edited on Mon May-28-07 10:27 AM by understandinglife
... accomplished by starting at the community level. And it requires Wounded Warriors to take the positions of leadership.



In_DEED, H2O Man.


Peace.

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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
52. The Tide Is starting to turn our way
I've been a Wiccan for about 20 years now. In that time, I've seen things wax and wane. In the 1990's, people were starting to become aware of our connection to the Earth, and what we were doing to screw it up. (Think "Circle of Life" from the Lion King.) Those were baby steps. A lot of it was laughed off as being "New Age", but the New Agers were right. Since 2000, that's gone out of fashion. But now I'm seeing it again, probably since Hurricane Katrina and Al Gore's message got out.

I agree that we need to look at ourselves first - regardless of what our political affiliations are. Myself, I need to lose weight, so that my footprint on the Earth is literally smaller. And stop accumulating "stuff", be it clothes, books, whatever.

Thanks for posting this!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
55. Been re-reading Hunter S Thompson's Fear and Loathing on the Campaign
Trail, and have just re-read that wonderful quotation from a speech made by Chief Sitting Bull at the Powder River Conference in 1977.

Hear me, people: We have now to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possession is a disease with them. These people have made many rules that the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.

HST then comments:

If George McGovern had a speech writer half as eloquent as Sitting Bull, he would be home free today - instead of twenty-two points behind and racing round the country with both feet in his mouth. The Powder River Conference ended ninety-five years ago, but the old Chief's baleful analysis of the White Man's rape of the American continent was just as accurate then as it would be today. The ugly fall-out from the American Dream has been coming down at us at a pretty consistent rate since Sitting Bull's time - and the only real difference now, with Election Day '72 only a few weeks away, is that we seem to be on the verge of ratifying the fallout and forgetting the Dream itself.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Tatanka Yotanka
That quote is from the Hunkpapa Teton leader's famous address at the 1877 council at the Powder River. It continues: "They claim this mother of ours, the earth, for their own and fence their neighbors away; they deface her with their buildings and their refuse. That nation is like a spring freshet that overruns its banks and destroys all who are in its path."

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Thanks for the rest of the speech, H2O. I had a suspicion that speech
Edited on Tue May-29-07 07:42 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
would be famous. The deepest truths speak to the heart, to our wisdom. No laboratory tests necessary.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-28-07 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
58. Darn. Too late to Rec. Food for thought and action. n/t
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
60. Wow. Just wow.
this is one to bookmark. I need to digest this after I am fully awake. Thank you, H20 Man.
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