Is this True? No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval

[LiberalArkie]

http://pressesc.com/01180202266_eevs

US citizens who apply for a job will need prior approval from Department of Homeland Security under the terms immigration bill passed by the Senate this week.

American Civil Liberties Union pointed out that the DHS's Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) is error plagued and if the department makes a mistake in determining work eligibility, there will be virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages due to the bill’s prohibitions on judicial review.

Even current employees will need to obtain eligibility approval from the DHS Within 60 days of the Immigration Reform Act of 2006 becoming law.

[Gormy Cuss]

1. For applicants, yes.

I just grabbed it, didn't read past the point that verified the above.
ACLU press release
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/gen/29878prs20070525.html

[seemslikeadream]

8. Every person in America

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/gen/29878prs20070525.html

ACLU Raises Concerns on Senate Immigration Bill; Proposed Legislation Would Harm Privacy, Due Process (5/25/2007)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [e-mail]

WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union today expressed grave concerns about the due process and privacy implications of the Senate immigration bill. The proposed legislation would create a vast federal database to verify the work eligibility of all job applicants in America - including U.S. citizens; expand indefinite detention; and deny effective judicial review of Department of Homeland Security errors denying immigration status.

"The bill denies essential due process, seeks to overturn Supreme Court limits on detention and fails to guarantee meaningful judicial review," said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU’s Washington Legislative Office. "Substantial changes must be made to ensure that the legislation adheres to the values of our country and our Constitution. Without effective judicial oversight, any new program enacted by Congress can be gutted by an overburdened, incompetent or hostile bureaucracy."

The proposed legislation would require every job applicant in America to have their eligibility to work verified by the DHS, using the error-plagued Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS). EEVS creates a massive government database containing extraordinary amounts of personal information on everyone in America, tied to each individual’s Social Security number. If DHS makes a mistake in determining work eligibility, there will be virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages due to the bill’s prohibitions on judicial review.

As a part of EEVS, every person in America would be forced to carry a hardened Social Security card perhaps containing biometric information about the cardholder - essentially a national ID - and present a Real ID-compliant driver’s license to get any new job. The proposed legislation also expands current practice of expedited removal. The ACLU noted that these policies do nothing to solve the problems of illegal immigration and violate the fundamental American value of due process.

"EEVS would be a financial and bureaucratic nightmare for both businesses and workers," said Timothy Sparapani, ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Under this already flawed program no one would be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval - creating a ‘No Work List’ similar to the government’s ‘No Fly List.’ We need immigration reform, but not at this cost."

[dweller]

10. what he hell is a

"hardened Social Security card" ?

i've complained before about SS cards to the SS admin when they took mine away b/c i laminated it. Made me get a new, paper one. Supposedly it was against the law to 'maim' it in any way. :eyes:

as a kid, i had a metal one my parents got for me. I lost it along the way, but it was at least durable.
When i had to get a new one, i asked for a metal one and was told 'they didn't exist'.

:shrug:
dp

[NightWatcher]

18. the "hardened ss card" looks to be the REAL ID that is being contested in several states

Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, NorthDakota, and Washington are challenging the constitutionality of such a national ID. I guess this is a way of running around any individual state challenges to the almighty federal government.


http://www.nilc.org/immsemplymnt/cir/07senbill_titleIII_topconcerns_2007-05-21.pdf

The documentation requirements are heavily focused on state compliance with the REAL ID Act, which eleven states have now rejected on the grounds that the law violates the essential rights and liberties of the U.S. Constitution and creates a national database that will invite identitytheft and invasion of privacy. In eleven additional states, legislation opposing REAL ID has passed one or more chambers of the state’s legislature. Under the new bill, no driver’s license or state identity card that does not comply with the REAL ID Act would be acceptable for employment eligibility verification purposes after June 1, 2013. This means that a U.S. citizen in a non–REAL ID state would have to present either a passport (passports are held by only 26 percent of the U.S. population) or a passport card, which is not yet available. New requirements provided for in the new bill also depend on the introduction of a biometrically-enhanced Social Security card, which SSA has testified would cost $9 billion and require the hiring of 60,000 additional SSA employees to develop and implement

[Toots]

29. "expand indefinite detention;"

How very American of them.....

[Morgana LaFey]

57. Ah, no WONDER Bush wanted this -- aside from the 3rd World-ization

of our workforce, of course. I kept wondering why he was so hot on the immigration bill.

And once again, our unbelievably dense and complicit Congress has to get right in there and help him.

I don't know how much more I can take. I will try to call Congress this week -- I couldn't last week because everytime I thought about what I could possibly say, my RAGE fired up to such an extent all I could do, even in my own mind, was blabber incoherently.

[snappyturtle]

34. See this article also:

Work Bill Would Create New ID Databases

http://news.com.com/Work+bill+would+create+new+ID+database/2100-1028-6185466.html

[glowing]

2. Wonder how many "oops" will happen to people who oppose

the regime.

[wakeme2008]

3. Fuckkkkk this will hurt me (+ nom)

As a contractor I have to file out an I-9 before taking a contract but it does not stop me from getting a job. This sounds like before I can START to work, DHS has to OK me and who knows how long that will take... :grr:

[Gormy Cuss]

5. The I-9: Reagan's groundwork for this bull.

Remember how that hoop jumping was supposed to solve the illegal immigrant problem?

[treestar]

50. Exactly, this is more of the same thing that has not worked

in the last 20 years.

Illegal immigration went up after the 1986 IRCA.

As if the same employers who don't file I-9s now are going to do that check with DHS. And as if it will be enforced when the IRCA is not.

All it does is prevent the illegals from joining the unions and put them in a position where they are willing to work below minimum wage without any wage and hour restrictions. Thereby making them more attractive as employees than U.S. citizens, who are more expenseive to employ.

This refusal to face reality is going to be our downfall. We cannot live in a fantasy land where we get hired first and paid most just because we were born in the U.S. Like an employer is going to pay someone a higher wage and cut into its profits just because the employee is American, as if work done by an American were inherently more valuable for no other reason.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. I never pretend that I know the solution to the massive increase in illegal immigration, but

I do know a bad fix when I see one. It's time to make an honest attempt to address the level of immigration needed to sustain and perhaps grow our economy but it's also time to put the boots to employers who haven't been complying with the existing laws like the 1986 act.

[napi21]

4. OH BOY! This sounds like a duplication of the no fly list!

If you get on it, even if you shouldn't be there, you have no way to get off!

[Rex]

6. Been going on for a few years, finally made it law I see.

Just can't stop fucking us over, ever. They will take every pound of flesh we have, until nothing is left.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. I predict more small businesses

hiring and paying people under the table. I work in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. How long do you think the good old boys around here will want to wait for Homeland Security to tell them the next door neighbor's kid they've known all their lives is not a terrorist threat?

[formercia]

14. Destroying Social Security

by forcing people to work under the table, no money goes in to SS like it does now with illegal immigrant employees that use someone else's ss ID Number.

They will kill Social Security one way or another.

[sandnsea]

9. To stop illegal EMPLOYERS

You bitch because the government doesn't go after business that hires the illegals, and then you bitch because a system is put in place to force them into complicance.

:banghead:

[Trillo]

11. I read it differently: To protect employers

at the expense of everyone else.

[sandnsea]

13. They've been talking about this for months

This is the system to check and make sure employees aren't illegal. Every single immigration thread talks about going after employers and that we already have the ability to check employees if we just fully fund and implement the system. That's all this is, it's part of the immigration bill. I can't for the life of me figure out how it can be twisted into anything else.

[lostnfound]

16. I think it's because the Administration in power WILL twist it into something else.

Whatever good motivations are behind this, the same White HOuse that caged voters, spied on protestors, tapped phones of political opponents, and adopts Nazi-style tactics with its interrogeration subjects is GOING to twist this into something else.

[SpiralHawk]

23. Sounds like you TRUST the BushCo republicons. Good luck to you.

I, among many, have found it exceedly unwise to trust the christofascist republicon cabal.

You are welcome to embrace them and their "laws" if you like, of course, but count me out...

[sandnsea]

40. I don't know what people expected

All the immigration discussions have included a national database where employers could check the legality of workers. What the hell did people think that meant?? I swear to god people are just fucking stupid. I don't care about the database one way or the other, I think we passed fascism years ago, when we implemented mandatory drug and credit testing to get jobs. But people just cannot have hissy fits over one thing, immigration, and then object to, and mischaracterize, the solutions. It's insane.

[Trillo]

47. I knew I'd need to explain what I meant.

Funny how English words can mean different things to different folks, even when everyone uses similar dictionaries.

With a government check, the employer discharges responsibility (to the gov agency), providing, of course, the employer uses the system AND keeps a record that they used the system and acted appropriately with each employee or potential employee. This protects the employer.

It does nothing for other workers, except continue the suspicion constantly displayed by corporatists towards citizens (humans). It's another form of corporate welfare. Socialize the risks and costs, privatize the profits. All with congressional approval.

[Cerridwen]

17. I'm one of the stop illegal employers crowd - this is not a bill toward

that end. This is a bill to go after U.S. citizens USING businesses to do so. It's another weapon against people.

The laws we have in place would allow holding employers accountable for their hiring practices; if they were implemented and enforced. This is yet another way to "fix" people rather than the system.

edit to add snippet from press release - then I gotta go read the bill:

EEVS creates a massive government database containing extraordinary amounts of personal information on everyone in America, tied to each individual’s Social Security number. If DHS makes a mistake in determining work eligibility, there will be virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages due to the bill’s prohibitions on judicial review. (emphasis added)

[snappyturtle]

36. I am exceedingly upset over this and agree with your statement:

"This is a bill to go after U.S. citizens USING businesses to do so. It's another weapon against people."

I don't believe it's an immigration thing really it's just ANOTHER big brother tactic to keep the little people afeared and weighted down with paper work. I wonder what happens if we lose our hardened SS card? Or if it's thieved? Enough is enough. If the INS had done it's job all along we wouldn't have terrorists in the country or illegals....so now we have to do their work and that reduces the bottom line for small businesses in particular.

[sandnsea]

37. Did you read the bill?

Because I've found what's actually in bills doesn't always match the kneejerkers rhetoric. In any event, the system obviously needs to work correctly. I'm not objecting to that aspect of it at all. I object to it being characterized as some sort of Big Brother invasion of privacy registry by many of the same people who rant and rave about illegal hiring practices. And oh, by the way, boohoo for business because business caused this problem in the first place.

[treestar]

They'll pass the costs down like they always do

And smaller businesses will be affected with higher overhead that may put them out of business.

All crap of this nature is intended to shore up the big companies from new competition.

It all takes up time and affects the cost of doing business.

Every high school ought to have a class where you have to run a small business before you graduate. It is amazing to see how many people think that they run themselves and the $$$ just pops up on trees and that it is owed to them in the form of job compensation, whether or not there is any economic need for the job in the market.

If we're going to have a free market economy people have to be able to be flexible enough to hire who they want when they want. The only option has been tried by the Soviet Union and failed.

[sandnsea]

54. Oh brother, that line again

Minimum wage pushes prices up. Taxes pushes prices up. Safety regulations pushes prices up. Green practices pushes prices up. Good grief, can the free marketers come up with something that hasn't repeatedly been proven to be wrong.

[treestar]

51. There is one from 1986 and that's not enforced

So this one is going to be? No.

I don't believe in punishing the employers though. They're doing what you'd expect, to a certain degree. Who when making a purchase looks for a way to spend the most money he can on anything? I buy paper for my office and if its cheaper for the same amount in one place, like I'm going to buy it at a higher rate somewhere else, just because what, there were Americans that made that same paper rather than foreigners? We all know the economy does not, never did, and never will work that way.

[sandnsea]

55. Hiring illegals is what you'd expect???

Are you serious? I suppose not following workman's comp and unemployment laws is what should be expected too, is that your position?

That's why FDR made these laws in the first place, so that everybody would have to follow them because he knew there's be a few scoundrels out there that would make it hard for the people who want to do the right thing by their employees.

[shance]

12. Keep in mind that will be more Bush people mandating who works on the plantation and

who doesn't.

[formercia]

15. Black Listing

Once you're on the list, it might take Years and a fortune in legal fees to get off the Black List.

Employee Caging.

[NightWatcher]

20. if you speak out, you cant work, fly, or be allowed to leave the country

the "no fly" is in effect. The "no work" list will be going into effect. The "no leave" list is being worked on. This is why you need "papers" to travel to places where we used to not need them. How long before "papers" will be needed to travel between states? A country full of checkpoints "for our security". They are using fear of terrorists and racist hatred of brown people to slowly take our rights away, and what's worse is the idiots that are signing them away as fast as the fed want to take them. Sound anything like Nazi Germany to anyone else?

[formercia]

22. Amerika Uber Alles

Voter caging, emplyee caging, traveller caging, it's all part of the Plan.

[shance]

53. Doesn't even matter if you speak out, if they don't like you FOR ANY reason, you're out.

IN OTHER WORDS, EVERYONE IS BEING TARGETED.

IT AFFECTS AND DISEMPOWERS EVERYONE.

[rasputin1952]

19. While I am not one who actually believes that the Apocalypse

is carshing down upon us via Revelations...This is kind of spooky. Now you can't get a job anywhere w/o some kind of "background check?" that really is scary!

If this were in force several years ago, bush wouldn't be able to pick up dog shit in the local park!

If this is true, it is one of the greatest affronts to freedom and liberty ever foisted upon a people.

[NightWatcher]

21. it's not biblical appocalypse, it's Orwellian with hints of Nazi Germany

[rasputin1952]

24. I've seen that as well, but in deference to Godwin's Law I

tend to avoid Nazi/Hitler correlations...:D

If one looks to history, as apparently this administration has, what the signing of that document that could give a president dictatorial power, one sees the direct parallel to what happened in Germany in the 30's.

No president can have that kind of power and this must be opened up to the public in every way possible.

I was watching C-SPAN this Am and on several occasions it was brought up, but those who brought it up could not give a specific as to where they first heard of it. Well....it was at WH.gov...the people in the WH were actually PROUD of this insanity, apparently, those at C-SPAN and almost everywhere else don't know a whole hell of a lot about what's going on...:(

[NightWatcher]

25. I think the Nazi correlations are appropriate

Patriot Act & Hitler's Enabling Act
9/11 & The Reichstag Fire....

If it seems extreme, it's because it is extreme.

[formercia]

27. Nothing personal, but

Every time I see the mention of Godwin's Law, the term 'Apologist' comes to mind.

I think this so-called 'Law' is a fabrication to enable the apologist line of reasoning.

edit: spelling.

[rasputin1952]

31. I don't see it as "apologist" at all...

Godwin's Law came into effect because when people were discussing politics and current events, as the individual on the "losing" side felt he/she was cornered, they brought out the "big gun" of Naziism.

There is nothing wrong w/comparing what is going on w/what the Nazi's did, and we should never forget that what happened back in the 30's/40's can happen again; in fact there are many parallels today, and Nazi's havent just disappeared off the face of the earth.

While I certainly take no offense at your post, you can rest assured I am light years away from being a Nazi "apologist"... :hi:

[formercia]

33. I didn't think you were.

:)

Both are used in excess.

:hi:

[datasuspect]

26. what is even more scary are the private background checks

many employers use. choicepoint comes to mind.

[formercia]

28. Now, where have I heard that name before?

Ah, yes, voter caging lists in Florida.

Why am I not surprised?

[rasputin1952]

32. I agree...What I think should happen is that we, who are

looking for employment, should have access to all of the records of the officers of the company. Bet that would put a stop to this immediately...:evilgrin:

I was born in this country, I've worked most of my life in this country, I have been educated in this country and I've served this nation in it's military...yet I am scrutinized right down to my shoe size, while others come here, some w/nefarious purposes, and don't get screened at all!

As for the CEO's and the CFO's, as well as those in Personnel, how am i supposed to know I'm not getting into something like Enron or some other horrific organization that is there to just scam everyone it can? Do I want to be associated w/criminals simply because I want to earn a living?

Let's see the results of background checks on those who captain industry...after all, if "they have nothing to hide, why should they worry?"...

[saras]

48. Excellent point

and even better if I take it perfectly seriously. Never mind how hard it would be politically, it is rational and fair, and given that employees may actually be held responsible for what they do for their employees, it doesn't seem right to settle for anything less.

[saras]

49. Go read the law

The more closely you read it, and the more you correlate its language with how other, similar laws have actually been applied, the WORSE it looks.

[rasputin1952]

52. Welcome to DU saras...

:hi:

I am as serious as can be. Just think how many people would have been saved immense loss of both assets and dignity, if people like Ken Lay had bee shown for being the jerks they were. Or that those who were commanding presences in the The Savings and Loans were shown to be the thieves they were.

Every once in a while we hear about some corporate baboon that is getting millions after driving a company into the ground, why should we put up w/this when we are honest and work for a company we would hope would be better at treating those who produce a product, as opposed to the jughead that sits at a desk and wallows in cash while the workers who get hurt on the job have to fight to get any type of medical care?

The whole system is screwed up, and we need to get the torches and pitchforks out and storm these castles, dragging the thieves out and tar and feather them...:D

[Catshrink]

30. Administered by some Regent U grad?

Another Monica run enterprise?

[derby378]

35. This is fascism

The Democrats in Congress must not, must not, must not allow this to stand.

[lovuian]

38. It will know where everybody is working too

and give the employer classified info on you

And the Democrats are part of the Immigration Bill

I feel the hand of control getting closer and closer and strangulating us

[EFerrari]

39. Does this apply to LOBBYISTS? Is it fascism yet? n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

41. No, it doesn't apply to lobbyists and it isn't fascism.

It doesn't apply to anyone. The assertions in the story linked by the OP are wrong. It does not apply to citizens.

[EFerrari]

42. Good!

[sandnsea]

43. How can it not?

How can business determine legal from illegal unless EVERYONE has to submit to the same employment process?? The reason EVERYONE has to show their social security card is because of immigration reform in the 80's. Everyone will be run through this database, I don't see any other way to verify that employers are following hiring laws. If people want to delude themselves into thinking they aren't already in a cazillion databases, I guess that's their business. But they need to shut the hell up about immigration if they don't want to implement any of the solutions. It's kind of like the people at the border being freaked out about the camera technology, that, OH MY GOD, takes pictures of them too. Fucking stupid idiots in this country, nobody knows how to think beyond the end of their nose.

[High Plains]

44. And how do they know if you're a citizen?

[BlackVelvet04]

45. That's exactly what was said about the Patriot Act....

but it hasn't worked out that way.

[IChing]

46. You are wrong once again.

This is what the ACLU guy really said.


Entries by Tim Sparapani, Legislative Counsel, ACLU
American Civil Liberties Union: Blog

Sunday, May 20, 2007

Immigration Bill "Compromises" on Values



But the bill does contain a lot of really bad provisions that undermine American values and the Constitution.
Almost all judicial review of any DHS errors in reviewing a person's immigration status would be eliminated or greatly limited. Further, the Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) would require every person in America to carry a hardened Social Security card containing biometric information (such as fingerprints, retina scan and DNA) about the cardholder — essentially a national ID, and present a Real ID-compliant driver's license to get any new job.

EEVS also creates a vast federal database to verify the work eligibility of all job applicants in America — including U.S. citizens. The system would contain extraordinary amounts of personal information on everyone who seeks or holds a job, all of it keyed to a person's Social Security number. If this bill passes, we will all have our eligibility to work in the U.S. approved by the Department of Homeland Security every time we apply for a job. If you think looking for work is hard now, just wait until you are stuck in a DHS bureaucratic nightmare trying to get that little holiday second retail gig or become a schoolteacher in the town you've lived in all your life. No one will be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval. And, if DHS makes a mistake, you'll have virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages because the bill essentially forecloses judicial review of government errors.


http://blog.aclu.org/index.php?/authors/62-Tim-Sparapan...