More power grabs / No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval

[shance]

When is enough, ENOUGH?

No jobs for US citizens without Homeland Security approval

US citizens who apply for a job will need prior approval from Department of Homeland Security under the terms immigration bill passed by the Senate this week.

American Civil Liberties Union pointed out that the DHS's Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) is error plagued and if the department makes a mistake in determining work eligibility, there will be virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages due to the bill’s prohibitions on judicial review.

Even current employees will need to obtain eligibility approval from the DHS Within 60 days of the Immigration Reform Act of 2006 becoming law.

"EEVS would be a financial and bureaucratic nightmare for both businesses and workers," said Timothy Sparapani, ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Under this already flawed program no one would be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval - creating a ‘No Work List’ similar to the government’s ‘No Fly List.’ We need immigration reform, but not at this cost."

The act allocates US$400 million for the implementation of the EEVS, but the Congressional Budgeting Office estimates the system to cost in excess of a billion dollars.

http://pressesc.com/01180202266_eevs

[live love laugh]

1. Sounds like terrorism to me. You speak out, you can't work. Like the no fly list. n/t

[shance]

3. This affects everyone. What are we going to do about it?

n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Yet another bamboozle for which the taxpayer is footing the bill

[shance]

5. It's much worse than that Brooklyn. It's the Adminstration essentially trying to control

who survives and who doesn't.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. YEs. I guess you are right. Now they are trying to take charge of the Social Darwinism that they

so strongly support.

[annabanana]

4. How is it possible we haven't heard of this before?

How is it possible that this could pass without discussion?

[shance]

6. Isn't that a good question.

Of which I have no answer.

[trashcanistanista]

12. The immigration bill has not

been voted on yet.

[gaspee]

8. OK, this should worry the conservatives

But will they be up in arms about civil liberties being lost? Of course not.

Incredible that this hasn't gotten more press. So if this passes if you are not "politically pure" you won't be able to find a job. Are we the Soviet Union yet?

[snappyturtle]

10. If you don't have anything to hide......

:sarcasm: Keep this kicked! K&R

[treestar]

9. I can just imagine that bureaucracy

If it is like the current one it will take a year to issue the approval. Or more. People will hold jobs for less time that it takes to get approved.

Then it will deny approval for technical reasons, like you waited until the 61st day inadvertently.

Wonder how the self employed will be regulated.

But you know you'll still have to withhold taxes for even your illegal employees.

But hey, it'll stop the scourge of those illegally employed aliens. They're ruining our lives, you know. We all live in the most abject povery and misery because of them. :sarcasm:

[54anickel]

11. Holy Shit! Scary when they put it that way. My B-I-L ended up on the "No Fly List". Of course

he didn't know he was on the "No fly list" until he went to fly. Quite the nightmare and took almost a year to get it completely cleared up. Could you imagine a "No Work List" and you didn't know until you tried to change jobs (whether by choice or not)?

Seems what they couldn't squeeze into the Patriot Act to screw us over with is being worked into the Immigration Reform Act.

Hey Toto, I don't think we're in America anymore - what a shit-storm!

[TahitiNut]

13. Sounds like a "poison pill" inserted to give Tyson/WalMart cover.

The cheap-labor corporatists whine that they can't be sure someone who gives them a false Social Security number is really not legally employable. (Wahh, wahh, wahh.) Just because the Social Security Administration issues "warn" letters when the SSN and the full name don't match, the poor employer is helpless ... even when they get HUNDREDS of them for people they hire for below market wages. The hypocrisy runs deep when those same employers claim those are "jobs Americans won't do." Excuse me? I thought they didn't know those people were illegal aliens? Uh-huh. Right. So, they cobble a total joke of a system together (clearly shoveling money to some crony) that has no hope of being adequate and write the laws in the most onerous and unacceptable way possible. Voila! Cheap labor continues and the corporate campaign donors can continue trafficking in cheap human labor.

[IChing]

14. Hold your horses but keep your powder dry, Alarming but not finalized

This is what the ACLU guy really said.


Entries by Tim Sparapani, Legislative Counsel, ACLU
American Civil Liberties Union: Blog

Sunday, May 20, 2007

Immigration Bill "Compromises" on Values



But the bill does contain a lot of really bad provisions that undermine American values and the Constitution.
Almost all judicial review of any DHS errors in reviewing a person's immigration status would be eliminated or greatly limited. Further, the Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) would require every person in America to carry a hardened Social Security card containing biometric information (such as fingerprints, retina scan and DNA) about the cardholder — essentially a national ID, and present a Real ID-compliant driver's license to get any new job.

EEVS also creates a vast federal database to verify the work eligibility of all job applicants in America — including U.S. citizens. The system would contain extraordinary amounts of personal information on everyone who seeks or holds a job, all of it keyed to a person's Social Security number. If this bill passes, we will all have our eligibility to work in the U.S. approved by the Department of Homeland Security every time we apply for a job. If you think looking for work is hard now, just wait until you are stuck in a DHS bureaucratic nightmare trying to get that little holiday second retail gig or become a schoolteacher in the town you've lived in all your life. No one will be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval. And, if DHS makes a mistake, you'll have virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages because the bill essentially forecloses judicial review of government errors.


http://blog.aclu.org/index.php?/authors/62-Tim-Sparapani,-Legislative-Counsel,-ACLU

[annabanana]

15. There will rise a MASSIVE off the books, underground economy.

The unintended consequences of something like this will be something to see.

[Raksha]

19. Sounds like "the Mark of the Beast" in no uncertain terms.

Why aren't the fundies up in arms about this? Or don't they know about it yet?

EEVS also creates a vast federal database to verify the work eligibility of all job applicants in America — including U.S. citizens. The system would contain extraordinary amounts of personal information on everyone who seeks or holds a job, all of it keyed to a person's Social Security number. If this bill passes, we will all have our eligibility to work in the U.S. approved by the Department of Homeland Security every time we apply for a job. If you think looking for work is hard now, just wait until you are stuck in a DHS bureaucratic nightmare trying to get that little holiday second retail gig or become a schoolteacher in the town you've lived in all your life. No one will be able to work in the U.S. without DHS approval. And, if DHS makes a mistake, you'll have virtually no way to challenge the error or recover lost wages because the bill essentially forecloses judicial review of government errors.

[papau]

16. The ACLU shouldn't get upset with the proposed visa/right to work checking in the Immigration bill

I do not understand the ACLU's panic over this section of the immigration bill - did they expect there would not be a system to force the checking for illegals in the workplace?

The DHS's Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) is addressed beginning on page 196 of the PDF (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s2611pcs.txt.pdf). While no where in the wording does it state that all employers of all employees will be required to obtain pre-approval from the System, it is a system that will apply to most jobs - but as you can see citizens merely state that they are citizens and they are done.

They are checking H1b/visa status - nothing more. All employers are indeed required to check all employees, the same as they ask for your Social Security number now:

An employer that participates in the System shall, with respect to the hiring, or recruiting or referring for a fee, any individual for employment in the United States, shall(i) obtain from the individual and record on the form designated by the Secretary (I) the individual’s name and date of birth; (II) the individual’s social security account number; and (III) in the case of an individual who does not attest that the individual is a national of the United States under subsection, such alien identification or authorization number that the Secretary shall require; (ii) retain the original of such form and make such form available for inspection.

As to the actual system:

The Secretary shall,through the System provide a response to an inquiry made by an employer through the Internet or other electronic media or over a telephone line regarding an individual’s identity and eligibility for employment in the United States; establish a set of codes to be provided through the System to verify such identity and authorization; and maintain a record of each such inquiry and the information and codes provided in response to such inquiry.

The Secretary, in consultation with the Commissioner of Social Security, shall design and operate the System (i) to maximize reliability and ease of use by employers in a manner that protects and maintains the privacy and security of the information maintained in the System; (ii) to respond to each inquiry made by an employer; (iii) to track and record any occurrence when the System is inoperable; (iv) to include appropriate administrative, technical, and physical safeguards to prevent unauthorized disclosure of personal information; (v) to allow for monitoring of the use of the System and provide an audit capability; (vi) to have reasonable safeguards,developed in consultation with the Attorney General, to prevent employers from using the System to engage in unlawful discriminatory practices, based on national origin or citizenship status; and
(vii) to establish a process to allow an individual to verify the individual’s employment eligibility prior to obtaining or changing employment to facilitate the updating and correction of information used by the System.

Of course, any Govt agency can do whatever the hell they want at any time the want until a Court stops them - but saying this bill as written would require every employee, current or prospective, to be "approved" by DHS is no more true than saying Social Security must "approve" the number you give for your W-4 filing as your Social Security number when you get hired now.

[BadgerKid]

17. Universities could be a target

as "breeding grounds" for liberalism. It fits nicely with the on-demand wiretapping infrastructure that has been put in place.

[shance]

24. Universities have been targetted by rightwinged organizations since the early sixties.

if not since the beginning of the twentieth century.

Many if not most universities are corporately run and/or highly influenced now.

[Raksha]

18. NO!!! Enough is damn well fucking ENOUGH!!!

This is over the top and unacceptable. This isn't just "close" to fascism, it IS fascism! This is as un-American as anything can get. Goddam fucking totalitarian BULLSHIT!

[snappyturtle]

21. Perfect. Amen. nt

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

20. McCarthy must be laughing from the center of hell

while Orwell spins in his grave.

[Wilms]

22. Don't worry. The Democrats control the House and Senate.

Oh. Wait.

[shance]

25. LOL***** At least you made me laugh.

Thank ya ;)

[blues90]

23. It's enough for me , far more than enough .

It becomes more and more apparent that their goal is to bring this country down to it's lowest point in history and this time with no possible way out , we won't be building military hardware or in job freezes as in WWII .

China will own us and we will crash if this bill goes through . It is difficult enough to get a job or keep one as it is now so just slap another wall up that we can try to climb over and still get no insurance or more than $10 per hour with $4 per gallon burnt up into smog getting to work .

[HCE SuiGeneris]

26. United States of Fascism

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[blues90]

27. It really is , just one more step toward their goal .

[LynnTheDem]

28. Answer: the biggest oxymoran on the planet.

WHat is "America, the land of the free".

[RC]

29. Oh, we will still be the "Land of the Free"

It is what we are free of that will be the problem.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. I don't know but I sure wish I could get the hell out of here! Anyone who

has the chance/opportunity to leave and doesn't, is :crazy: imho.

[Igel]

30. Something like the EEVS is required for what many DUers demand:

Holding employers responsible for employing illegal immigrants.

As it is, it's illegal to *knowingly* employ an illegal immigrants; the requirements for 'knowing' a person is eligible for employment are such that employers have an easy out. Some DUers overlook the problem: It's not whether a responsibility is reasonable or not, it's the absolute facts that matter.

However, those DUers are simply wrong. If you look at ID and can't tell if it's fake--even if you're personally sure that the person in front of you is here illegally--you're off the hook. And, in many cases, the employer really *can't* tell that the ID is fake, so they're off the hook morally.

To make sure there are no escapes from the 'hook', you need something like EEVS or some ID that is universal and difficult to forge ('national ID card'). I suppose issuing a manual with detailed descriptions of each variant of every acceptable form of ID, and ways to tell if each kind of ID is valid or forged, would work, but would be a real hassle--and then what do you do if the 60-year-old in charge of I-9 compliance screws up and doesn't follow the instructions?

You want to punish employers? Make sure that punishing them is both fair and reasonable.

[snappyturtle]

31. This program will not remove the hassle....

employers will be required to keep records for seven years and be subject to "inspection",,,,,,

more....
http://news.com.com/Work+bill+would+create+new+ID+database/2100-1028-6185466.html

[Igel]

35. It may not remove the hassle ...

but if it gets over the "knowingly employed" illegal immigrants bit, that would be a start.

Right now it's far too easy for an employer to duck under the 'knowingly' business. I've had to do I-9s for two different small organizations. In one of them, I knew the employee was here illegally, and my boss did as well. The problem was that the documents the woman gave us looked good; had the (then) INS showed up, my boss could easily say, "We never knew"--and the documents would back her up.

[grilled onions]

33. Meanwhile the employer can't hire you and you can't work

If the red tape takes as long as getting a bag of ice or trailer to a Katrina victim workers won't work and employers won't get needed production to keep their doors open. Once again the poorer you are the worse it will be with this new gov't "waiting game".
Once you are on this "list" will you stay on it all your life? Will your family also be considered "trouble"? Will certain last names be more likely to be on the "list"? Will just logging into DU be grounds to on this list?? If so welcome me hearties. It will be a loooong list!

[shance]

37. Guess who has power over your livlihood? Guess how long they've been planning this?

Wake up folks.

[snappyturtle]

34. Sorry Shance....I didn't see this when I posted this a.m. but

I included another article explaining EEVS: http://news.com.com/Work+bill+would+create+new+ID+database/2100-1028-6185466.html

I think this is so important having read about last night when you posted this topic I just had to do more this morning!

[shance]

36. No need to be sorry Snap.......the more information the better.

Thanks for the additional info****

:toast: