Why is Obama holding unemployment benefits hostage for tax cuts for the filthy rich?

[nashville_brook]

Why didn't he fight to do the FAIR thing? To separate the two and work on them as discreet legislation?

And why, for the love of god, are his giveaways to the filthy rich LARGER than what the GOP asked for?

[xchrom]

1. it's a wonder, i'll say that. nt

[Poboy]

2. I think that is an accurate way to frame this question.

[nashville_brook]

67. It's the same thing in a different suit on a different day

[mdmc]

3. r

:kick:

[mstinamotorcity]

4. The reason the Presidents number is bigger

was explained in this way by the economist on LO. http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/09/5617948-lawrence-to-grayson-youre-wrong
Which I can interpret as they get more under his plan because they can take all their investment credits in one year. But after next year they must start paying for everything.They run out of tax credit which will shrink after one year. Therefore making them put money into the economy if they want to stay in business after improvements.

[nashville_brook]

7. doesn't matter. the cost is more b/c the filthy rich are getting HUGE payouts.

and don't forget these are the top of the top, who in our economy are hedge fund managers and the like. the very people responsible for the crash, why were never punished, who were bailed out with our national treasury, and who turned around gave themselves giant, obscene bonuses while the rest of us were being laid off.

fuck them.

[mstinamotorcity]

13. I say fuck them too

Only this time if we say fuck the stinking ass rich we will say fuck you to millions of families and people who are in need of help. For every week and month of delay in Unemployment benefits we are going to have the escalation in people losing their benefits as were losing their jobs. The numbers no one wants to remember. The recession started for a lot of America before September 2008. First it was in the thousands and then the Hundreds of thousands losing their jobs. Same number of people who will start losing their benefits. How many of them do you think are really going to look in their children hungry eyes before they do something drastic. And what about the students and their tuition. It is crazy for a child to go to a higher learning institution and when they get out of a two or four year program they can owe sixty thousand dollars and have never worked one day!!!! And if they don't get educated how will they get a job? You know I think this is a little bigger than the Tax cut for the wealthy. And I feel we had Majority Senate and House and this should have been taken care of a long time ago. But since I know we had Dems in both Congressional Houses who would not vote in the peoples interest only their corporate interest.

[nashville_brook]

61. The very fact that there are people accepting this situation as our only 'hope' shows how

Dead the liberal class is, as Chris Hedges suggests in his new book.

I'm sorry, but it is unacceptable to hold the unemployed hostage so that the wealthiest people in this country get a $140,000 check come April 15. And they will be getting those checks, and those sports cars and those second, third, and fourth homes at the expense of our childrens' education and our parents' Social Security.

[mstinamotorcity]

82. "Only Hope" Did I Miss something??

I must have said something else. Or maybe my point got lost. I never said the Tax Cut Bill was our only hope.

Hi, my name is Mstinamotorcity. There is no way that I would even suggest that this bill would be OUR ONLY HOPE. Due to unseen circumstances beyond my control and it seems under the control of a majority Senate and House this issue was not settled long ago. The Republican tactic was to stall while they could demonize the sunset of the Bush tax cuts as a Tax Hike for everybody.

You have Democratic members in both Houses who because of corporate interest, whether it be in the form of campaign donations or private little junkets and ladies of the evening,or hide-away C street residence, they have everything to lose including the salaries and Government health care. Now let's say you are Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (r) and you received almost one million dollars to your McConnell Foundation from Toyota, and you have had hundreds of thousands of dollars poured into your campaign War chest by corporate powers,Who will your loyalty be to??And if you leave the Congress you get to take your War chest with you( Evan Bayh (d)).

Yes I am angry. But I know its going to pass!!!And I know what the HELL January is going to bring to Washington D.C. I also know that if some of the people are going to get something out the deal, who are not the ultra rich, then so be it. But with the numbers I stated in people losing their benefits, I just really wanted it to be known that when we say stop things vital to peoples lives like unemployment, we need to be prepared to absorb those human lives into our own. We must be prepared to help them meet their expenses in order to do that. I have no problem with this. But look at how many there will be. It will take more than me to feed them. Anybody know how to do the two fish, five loaves of bread, or is it five fish and two loaves of bread prayer??

[ncteechur]

5. Did you take Civics? You do understand that in less than a month we will have a Republican House

and that unemployment benefits will most likely lose even if it ever gets a vote and if it does get a vote it will be shaped by committee first or either watered down by amendments that Republicans will attach because they have the VOTES.

[nashville_brook]

6. at this point Obama owns this. he's holding UI hostage. not the GOP.

[onenote]

9. really? doesn't Congress have some small role in this?

[nashville_brook]

12. you know all those dems who revolted yesterday? methinks they would have been HAPPY

to decouple UI from giant giveaways to the rich. just look at THEIR plan.

moreover, the president caucused with the GOP instead of his own party. maybe if he gave them the honor of facetime they would have been able to work something out. but he decided that Congressional Dems were superfluous.

[onenote]

24. I'm sure they would be, which is why they passed a stand alone tax extension bill

But there are two houses in Congress and it takes them both to get either the UI benefit extension or the tax cut extension bill enacted. And its pretty clear that the Senate can't get either of them done without compromising on the high end tax cut extension.

[nashville_brook]

44. That's not clear at all b/c unfortunately there's not been a full-bore PR push like w/

The rich folks' tax cuts.

Which, btw, he even made larger.

It's like he wants Palin to be president.

[Me.]

8. Wait, Didn't You Know Tax Cuts For The Wealthy Creates Jobs

The WH has now said so so it must be true.

[nashville_brook]

10. :) -- if that were true we'd have 100% employment since Reagan.

but despite what my lying eyes tell me, it must be true if the president said it. i must get on message.

[NYCGirl]

38. Can you give me the quote on that? I am doubtful. NT

[Me.]

65. Also Heard It On KO

Obama says tax deal will create jobs -- but House Dems table it

“Angry House Democrats voted today to table a proposed tax cut extension that includes the nation's wealthiest Americans, even as President Obama said his deal with Republicans has "the potential to create millions of jobs."…vpnt…

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/obama-tax-cut-deal-has-the-potential-to-create-millions-of-jobs/1

[nashville_brook]

74. was examined on NPR today...but i can't remember which show.

obviously, i listen to too much npr -- :)

[NYCGirl]

87. Yes, parts of the tax deal will create jobs. And President

Obama has said that DOES NOT INCLUDE the tax cuts for the rich.

[stray cat]

11. Why haven't the house and senate passed unemployment extensions you mean?

The president can only veto and he hasn't vetoed anything

Civics needs to be mandatory -people should know how the government is run

[woo me with science]

14. You mean "discrete," separate.

"Discreet" means private, circumspect.

But I agree with your post 100 percent.

[DirkGently]

16. Damn homonyms - never used to do that with 'em

Getting old sucks.

[woo me with science]

33. Yeah, it does.

I'm with you on that.

[nashville_brook]

18. Heheh - getting old does suck! Too late to edit so ima wear my dunce cap proudly :)

God, I hate it when I do that.

[woo me with science]

34. That's okay.

It's probably better than being a spelling nazi. Plus, pointy caps look sharp.

:hide:

[nashville_brook]

41. the really sad thing...

one of the hats i wear in career life...editor.

ack!

[ZombieHorde]

20. Those are a tough one, I look them up before I use them in school papers. nt

[woo me with science]

35. I did not know

zombies went to school.

[ZombieHorde]

36. You go where the food is. nt

[woo me with science]

46. Ahh, gotcha.

[nashville_brook]

59. When I start mixing up their and they're, I'm going straight to my doc for alzheimer's treatment

:)

[Recursion]

50. I remember it by saying the e's in "discrete" are kept apart

ie, they are "discrete".

[Lance_Boyle]

52. Wait a minute, Who the F are you,

to be dissing Crete???

[Recursion]

15. Why can't posters on DU count to 60?

If you're asking why he didn't play a game of chicken and hope the Republicans swerved first and would stop filibustering unemployment benefits? Well, probably because he's been awake for the past 2 years and believes they would be more than happy to do just that.

A better question might be why Pelosi and Reid didn't do anything about this before the election, leaving Obama holding the bag here.

[dionysus]

19. +1 totally misplaced blame is hillarious.

[NotThisTime]

28. +1

[nashville_brook]

40. complete misrepresentation of what I said -- decouple UI from tax cuts

make them vote on UI alone.

[Recursion]

42. That happened. It failed

I can find the vote number if you've forgotten.

[nashville_brook]

45. If you and the president are so concerned about the poor and unemployed, where's your jobs program?

Where's your concern for all the programs that are going to be cut as a result of giving each and every rich person in the country a check for $140,000?

Man, if I had $140,000 coming to me from uncle sam, I'd fight like hell for it too. And also get my PR/lobbying agency on it immediately. The middle class doesn't have this kind of sway.

[Recursion]

47. Yes, I agree with you it's a bad thing that the vote failed

But it did, on Saturday Dec 4th, Senate roll call votes 528 and 529. Once for under $250K and once for under $1 million.

[nashville_brook]

48. And Schumer had a less ugly compromise ready to go

[harun]

17. Because Dem's and Repukes are in a contest to see who can give the

uber rich more stuff they aren't asking for.

They are trying to impress the real boss.

[nashville_brook]

71. Isn't it amazing how people think self-interest has nothing to do with it

[DirkGently]

21. Jesus. That is one ugly snowman. More beating Republicans by taking the ball out their hands?

... and running for our own endzone?

[nashville_brook]

57. I hope everyone gets a chance to see this today before it's flushed down the memory hole

The ugly snowman, that is.

[apples and oranges]

22. What part of congress/senate voting to pass things

do you not understand? He suggested a compromise as a help to them since none of them can get their shit together and agree on anything. At the end of the day, it's up to them to vote to pass something.

[DirkGently]

23. What part of not giving away your side before negotiations begin do you not understand?

It's not up to Obama to decide what's impossible for Congress. It's his job to help shape public opinion, rather than telling Republicans weeks in advance that they're going to get exactly what they want, leaving Democrats undermined and looking silly for even attempting to call out the Republicans for their, in this case, outright theivery and hypocrisy.

[apples and oranges]

25. did you already forget that Pelosi sent a dem approved plan to the senate

that failed?

[DirkGently]

27. So it's Obama's role to save the day by rolling belly-up?

Edit: Congressional Dems could have given up all by themselves. Why would Obama take the bit in his teeth and surrender FOR them?

If he's going to insert himself, shouldn't it be to accomplish something Congress could NOT?

[Egnever]

49. Are you paying attention at all?

Thats exactly what he did. Congress couldnt accomplish it! Time is running out Something needed to be done.

[nashville_brook]

53. What he did is unacceptable and needs to be walked back immediately

[onenote]

26. Congress has had a very long time to figure out a compromise

If they were in such a powerful position, why didn't the Congressional leaders make this an issue BEFORE the November elections?

[Recursion]

51. 10 years, in fact

4 of them under Democratic control.

[nashville_brook]

75. it would be interesting to know if Obama ever wanted tax cuts addressed in this congress.

[Recursion]

83. His repeated statements to that effect don't give you a hint?

Are you really blaming him that Congress kept passing continuing resolutions rather than addressing his budget (in which IIRC the tax cuts for those making over $200,000 were phased out over 4 years)?

[Edweird]

31. "So I pass a signature piece of legislation..........."

>I pass a signature piece
>I pass
>I

[nashville_brook]

54. I noticed that too...not the language of a team player.

Then there's the fact that he chooses to caucus with the GOP instead of his own party.


Then there's the fact that this has outraged the rank and file.

The only people who are happy with this are republicans and people making over a quarter million a year. Or, as like to say, his NEW base.

[Edweird]

78. The biggest thing is that it makes the "he can't pass legislation" apologia look stupid.

A republican president is a bull in a china shop while a dem president is anemic ans flaccid because 'he can count to 60', 'he can't pass legislation', 'he didn't have any choice', ' the president doesn't have any power' and all the other excuses for his RW policies. So every time I see "he can't pass legislation" I'm gonna point what he said. Who am I gonna believe? Some anonymous internet poster or a constitutional scholar/law professor that also happens to be the president?

[Javaman]

29. Because rather than hold his ground, he allowed the gop to dictate the message.

So here we are.

Who's in charge again?

Oh that's right, the repukes. Because just yesterday, the Dems lost the defense funding bill on a vote of 57(dems) for and 40 (repukes) against.

What the fuck kind of majority rules bullshit is that?

[nashville_brook]

55. One more reason why he owns it now. He absolutely can't blame the GOP for this...

Not after doing what seems to be a bigger PR assault than he mustered for the midterms.

[Orangepeel]

30. there's this thing called the Senate...

an unemployment benefits extension did not even get a vote in the Senate on their own.

December 4, 2010

As expected, two votes in the Senate today that would have extended middle tax cuts and extended federal unemployment benefits failed to garner the support needed to advance.

Both votes attracted the support of only 53 senators; 60 votes were needed to advance the votes. All Republicans and a handful of Democrats voted against the measures.
http://www.mlive.com/michigan-job-search/index.ssf/2010/12/senate_saturday_vote_to_pass_middle_clas.html

[nashville_brook]

39. there's also this thing called negotiating, and working within YOUR party, not the GOP

to make things happen. Congressional Dems were aghast at his dissing them. as well they should be.

[DirkGently]

43. Yes. Didn't he breach protocol by leaving Congressional Dems out of the loop? How can anyone then

suggest that Democrats complaining about that are being divisive or disloyal? Did he not treat them with contempt in preparing a compromise without caucasing with his own party?

[nashville_brook]

63. And, he's pulled out the stops with a PR campaign that dwarfs his midterms work.

Think about it - when was the last time he made an appear and on NPR for gods sake. He was on MSNBC today. He'll prolly be on 30 rock tonight.

[polmaven]

86. so ALL tax cuts,

should expire, and UI extensions should die because Congress has hurt feelings?

[MadHound]

32. The sad thing is that Obama didn't have to take this path.

He could have followed Mitch McConnel's suggestion from last summer and pay for the UI extension out of surplus stimulus funds, and taken that gun away from the 'Pugs. This would have made it a straight up contest between tax cuts for the rich and tax cuts for the middle class, a very easy battle to win.

But frankly I think that Obama is simply afraid of fighting, and that's a horrible quality to have in a President.

[DirkGently]

37. This is the concern. Is it that he can't beat Republicans, or is okay with them winning?

Hearing him on NPR today, talking about how the "real" deficit concern will (wait for it) have to do with Social Security and Medicare, one can almost contemplate that he is helping the GOP line up its middle-class destroying strategy for months and years to come.

How can we not wonder if he doesn't simply agree with them?

[nashville_brook]

77. it should be a deep concern to the party that the/our brand is losing it's value.

[raouldukelives]

56. It would endanger our spirit of bipartisanship nt

[nashville_brook]

72. i wish someone would pay me $140,000 to deign to allow the unemployed to continue to live.

[G_j]

58. +1000 n/t

[Unvanguard]

60. Because the Republicans would have blocked an attempt to do it separately.

As all forty-two of them said they would.

:eyes:

[nashville_brook]

62. Then hold something they want hostage. We can't afford $140,000 giveaways.

[fascisthunter]

64. because we little people don't matter to him much

trinkle-down economics is already an insult as is, not to mention it was a garbage meme so many fell for.

[nashville_brook]

66. where's the outcry of "how are you going to pay for this?"

[Poboy]

68. Exactly. This should be shouted out. This is how the game is played.

You call them out on their bullshit.

[nashville_brook]

69. I am really astounded at the magnitude of bullshit that came from the WH and puditocracy

Today. They came out with both barrels blazing. When have ever seen this kind of intensity for anything that would remotely help the people?

[Spider Jerusalem]

70. Ask the Republicans. Also look up "Separation of Powers".

[nashville_brook]

73. this is Obama's baby now.

[amborin]

76. K&R

[laughingliberal]

79. K & R nt

[upi402]

80. Ho owns it now.

He tucked nuts and clucks like a chicken. Then I call it chicken... or Republican lite.

[Kaleva]

81. His "giveaways" to the middle & working class are also much larger.

[Hello_Kitty]

84. dupe

[Hello_Kitty]

85. What "giveaways"? Not much that the GOP doesn't also support.

They love the payroll tax cut. It's been their idea for years. They love the child tax credit. McCain said he wanted to double it during the Presidential campaign. Accelerated depreciation? Who benefits from that?

They're not really concessions if they're things Republicans like.