S-T-E-A-D-Y DUers one battle does not the whole war make.

[Hubert Flottz]

I'm hurt more by what I've seen here on DU in the past 24 hours, than by what I saw the democrats in congress do yesterday evening. We not only need to continue to fight to take our country back, but we need to fight to keep our own party honest and on the best course, for the good of our country. Now is when we need to stick together the most...through the bad times.

The times can't all be good. The battles can't all be won by our side. But this war for our country goes on tomorrow and the next day and the next. We must stand up to those who would trample our freedom and liberty and we can clearly see who they are.

Dry powder is usless if you throw down your weapon in the heat of battle and run away with all your ammo still in your pockets unfired. I was a democrat in 1970 and I'll be one as long as I live. Bastards like Joe Lieberman ain't going to run me off, but I'll do my best to rid the party of turn coat unpatriotic assholes like him.

Hang in there guys and gals...we still have a long way to go.

[Az]

1. Gore's book on reason is timely

Emotions are poison to reason. But fuel to action. We need to harness our anger and lash it to our reason. Right now our emotions are overwhelming us. Grief is consuming our focus. We must overcome this.

We don't know what happened. We can speculate all we want but at the end of the day until we get more information we are just guessing. It is hard to imagine that they are not listening to the people. We are making plenty of noise. So if they have any political sense they must be considering options. So we wait and see. No, rather we get active and make sure they know our will and see what they do with it.

Reason relies on information. Emotions are fed by ignorance. We need to use reason as our guide so we need to gather information.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Bah - I prefer that the wusses run home crying now,

[BuyingThyme]

3. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are impediments to democracy.

It's okay to say so. In fact, it's downright Democratic.

[mmonk]

4. Six years of holding steady is a long time for justice

and a political fight. We supposedly have numbers now but someone left the safety on.

[Hubert Flottz]

7. We still don't have the numbers in congress to crush the enemy.

We still need to be careful when and where we attack. The GOP's position on Iraq is becoming more untenable every day. The majority of the people are starting to see George for the lying, cowardly, no account, snake oil pusher, that he truly is.

[mmonk]

8. Maybe not to get legislation passed all the time or be veto proof.

But if we banded together, we could end the war through deauthorization and we could impeach.

[Zhade]

64. Hear, hear.

So much cowardice in our "leaders" these days.

[partylessinOhio]

5. It was not just one battle - it was the cumulative effect of a series

spanning many years.

I am without a party. I have no representation.

Pelosi is off for the "holiday" in the non-stop jet she demanded at our expense while Americans struggle with the burdens of a war, inflated prices on everything from food to health care, price gouging at the pumps, every increasing state and local taxes, global warming, and a real absence of hope for a future for themselves and the next generations.

I have never lived through such times as these - I just want out of here away from the mentality that took over my government and my peace of mind - but I have no way to get out - I'm stuck here whether I like it or not.

:cry:

[MonkeyFunk]

13. oh please

bringing up the jet bullshit? How lame.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Actually it is not lame.

The corruption and arrogance of power is a major part of the problem.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. what corruption?

The whole imbroglio over the jet was contrived - Pelosi herself never asked for any special consideration - the Sergeant-at-Arms handled the whole thing. She got merely what her predecessor got.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. what her predecessor got was also corrupt.

It is about time that our representatives jammed themselves into the middle seat on the airbus with the rest of us slobs. It is about time that the opposition party stopped looking for a seat at the table and started looking to burn down the mansion.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. it's not corrupt

she has a security detail that needs to travel with her. Putting in coach class on Southwest doesn't fill her security needs.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. Oh bullshit they can get on the bus too.

The high and mighty need to get on the bus with the rest of us. This is supposed to be an egalitarian republic, all of us equal, not a plutacracy. The last time a Democratic Party leader paid any attention to that ideal was when Jimmy Carter walked down Pennsylvania Avenue with his family to the White House.

[partylessinOhio]

30. Well, I disagree. A little humility would go a long way.

Nancy seems a little off, what was wrong with her this morning? Too much of something.



Nancy could buy her own jet. Why should the taxpayers fly her across country every week in a huge jet?

* should have his travel pared down too.

[deadmessengers]

18. Oh give me a break

The JET? All this, and all you have to say is to spew right-wing talking points? Give me a break.

[jgraz]

29. Partyless, I'm with you on everything but the jet

The jet is a non-issue, cooked up by Limbaugh and Hannity. She's a constitutional officer and is required by law to have secure travel to and from home. End of story.

BTW, it wasn't until about 30 seconds ago that I realized your handle wasn't "pantylessInOhio". Sad to say, I'm less intrigued now... :evilgrin:

[BobRossi]

6. Yeah but..

I was hoping the Dems were smart enough not to bring a knife to a gun fight.

[Hubert Flottz]

9. A knife is better than nothing.

Last year they had nothing to bring.

After next year we may the keys to the gun cabinet. We never will if we quit now.

[NavyDavy]

10. great posts!!

[wanpete]

14. Excellent metaphor Hubert! K and R!

[jgraz]

28. That's what it's about, just more and more power?

The sad truth is that the Dems had the power right now to stop funding this war. They didn't need a veto-proof majority, and they damn sure didn't need any more polling results. All they needed was backbone, and they failed.

[Truth2Tell]

25. Actaully they brought a gun to a knife fight

And still lost. Afraid to fight. That's what's so sad.

[wanpete]

11. thanks for the post, all the doom and gloom here lately has been depressing

yes we are all disappointed and angry. We want an end to the illegal war and the lies. this is a war to expose this evil administration. there are many battles in a war. we cannot give up the fight. what have we if we do that? we must keep fighting until our elected officials represent what America wants. let's not give up, let's keep their feet to the fire, al of them.

[L. Coyote]

12. DITTO. DU Dem Bashers are a Tribute to Falwell. Or, Yet Another Buffalo Jump?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x969589

" ... the epitome of devisiveness and broad-brush, hateful vitrolity, one Jerry Falwell, would be pleased to see the blemmings at work on DU.

"I am a Dem. I did not vote for Mr. Bush's Lying Illegal War. I'm saying "Don't broad brush me, a la Falwell." Attacking "Dems" is an assault on the majority of Americans. The idea of a "big tent" is not to be devisive.

"And, if you don't mind, I'd rather we both move on to the link I provided above, ..."

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Gosh yes indeed we have one great political machine!

Yeah Democratic Party! Rah rah rah! I am so proud of the work they have done since winning the 2006 election with our money, our hard work, our votes.

[noamnety]

43. Anti-war activists are not "a Tribute to Falwell."

I'd suggest a different talking point. Maybe one that isn't quite so idiotic. Those who oppose funding genocide and speak out against it rather than blindly accepting whatever our so-called leaders tell us is best for us are hardly equivalent to gay-bashing woman-hating bigots.

[L. Coyote]

53. Devisiveness is the object of my derision, not anti-war activism. Big DIFF.

Dividing the Dems into warring factions is not a good way to end a war.

[noamnety]

63. Well, if the MINORITY of dem congresspeople

had voted with the MAJORITY of the dem congresspeople, we wouldn't have this divisiveness now. So perhaps you should aim your falwell insults at those who voted to fund the occupation.

Perhaps the real falwellians are those who are funding a racist war of oppression.

I'd be fairly shocked if you're going to sway anyone who is outraged by the occupation into supporting it with your argument that if we don't support it, now that it's passed, we're just like right wing fundies.

[Individualist]

15. One straw too many can break a camel's back

This was hardly about "one" battle.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. What's another 100B worth of dead Iraqis anyway?

No biggie.

I am sorry but exactly what do you expect to change between now and january 2009?

[Hubert Flottz]

23. I expect to replace the GOP at 1600 PA Ave with some democrats.

And a lot of GOP congress critters are going to get fired too.

[Warren Stupidity]

38. That would be after 1-1-09.

Between now and then nothing will change. Given the vote in congress there is no reason to believe that we will be getting out of Iraq any time soon after 1-1-09 either.

[Hekate]

20. Thanks, Hubert

:hi:

Hekate

[Hubert Flottz]

24. You're welcome Hekate

Hang in there!

[frogcycle]

26. the voice of reason!

Thanks Hubert.
It's ok to vent some, release some frustration, but a circular firing squad ain't gonna do us no good no how.

During this congressional summer vacation I intend to swing out to Yorkville and visit Hastert's office. I may not have voted for him, but he is still my congresscritter. I'll not sway him, but I'll at least remind him that "the folks back home" are not all in his pocket. I'll be sure to wear a John Laesch button. I'd rather spend my energy berating him than Pelosi.

[autorank]

27. K*R. You're right Hubert. It's the long road to democracy.

Great line, I concur: "

"Dry powder is usless if you throw down your weapon in the heat of battle and run away with all your ammo still in your pockets unfired."

I understand why people are disappointed, but motivated anger and commitment are more appropriate.

I expected this to happen, it's no surprise. This is the "opposition" the nation has had for years.

It's our obligation to stick around and challenge the Mandarins.

It's our obligation to make the party work for the people.

And, it's our obligation to tell the truth arrived at by logical analysis of the evidence.

If lockstep loyalists don't like that, they'll come around. The Republicans and the supporters are experiencing the first stages of a "descent into the maelstrom."

[Hubert Flottz]

31. Anything worth having, is worth fighting the GOPers for.

The dinos, trolls and other assorted reich wing drones aren't gonna' run me off!

Karl Rove is grinning like a rabid, chubby jawed, possum, as he gleefully reads through DU the last couple of days..."Divide and conquer"...he chuckles to his ugly, greedy self, as he just sits back in his overstuffed easy chair, licking his devilish chops and letting us weaken, defeat and defame our own kind.

We need to focus the rage and energy on the ones who lied again and again, to get us into Iraq.(period)

[autorank]

36. My Senator in 2002

America's best military leaders know that they are accountable to history not only for how they fight wars, but also for how they prevent them. The greatest military victory of our time -- bringing an expansionist Soviet Union in from the cold while averting a nuclear holocaust -- was accomplished not by an invasion but through decades of intense maneuvering and continuous operations.
http://tinyurl.com/5tpn

Fuck 'em! Focus on * is right, the great divider, deceiver, and dillatante of the dubious.


Bush & "the baby sitter."

[G_Leo_Criley]

40. the ones who lied again and again...

the ones who cooked up the phony war in Iraq!

Thank you Hubert.

glc

[G_Leo_Criley]

41. thanks autorank

"it's our obligation to tell the truth arrived at by logical analysis of the evidence."

Indeed.

glc

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Hubert Flottz]

34. Aren't you that mechanical floozy from over there by the DUzys?

Are you stocking us?!?!?!?!111??1!?

[Decruiter]

35. Good luck with that HubertF. How's it been working for you so far?

Since 1970? Hmmmm....

[Hubert Flottz]

37. It's not been bad as long as we can keep our people in the WH.

The rest of the time the entire country has been the loser.

[treestar]

42. So true. It is * and the repukes who started all this

And a Democratic Congress is not a fairy godmother to wave a magic wand and get us everything we want. It can only protect us from the likes of Patriot Act III and the Military Commission Act II. That's the way this system is. It slowness prevents us from impulsive and rash decisions. It's not all bad.

Reading DU lately, you have to remember, BUSHCO STARTED THE WAR!!!!!!!!!!

Legislators have to weigh several issues. They can't just be expected to be fairy godparents who are going to be able to get us everything we want NOW!!! It's called maturity. There is reality to consider. Some of the reaction here is as bad as the far right wing loons who are mad at their Chimpenfuehrer now because he hasn't already won the damn war.

[lonestarnot]

44. Tell it to those poor dead folks over in Iraq Hubert

[Hubert Flottz]

45. Their blood is on Bush and his enabler's hands...

I would not want to be in their shoes. Nobody has been more against this war in Iraq from the get-go than the folks here at DU.

[lonestarnot]

47. No argument there, or here.

[Edgeoforever]

46. Which war would that be? The real one where people die, or some imaginary one

where we "DU" vs "freep" polls on the internets?

[yurbud]

48. Ballad of the Dry Powder

Ballad of the Dry Powder

When we fought King George, Colonel Harry Reid was sent to gaurd a mountain pass.
He had twenty men, the high ground, and a good view of all possible routes of attack,
but just one small keg of gunpowder for all their muskets blasts.

Each soldier would have powder to let just ten bullets fly.
General Washington gave thought to this when he bid them good-bye.
He said, "Take care boys, and keep your powder dry!"
He would soon regret those words for they led good men to die.

One night as Reid's boys were sitting around the campfire at their post up in the pass,
a grizzly bear got scent of them and into their camp crashed.
Johnny grabbed his musket and aimed at the bear's boulder of a head,
but before he squeezed the trigger, Col. Reid jumped up and said,
"Stand fast! Our bullets are for Redcoats, save our powder for them instead!"
Johnny held his fire and the bear tore out his throat.

As the bear began to eat him, the other soldiers grabbed their guns,
but Reid said, "Fight him if you must, but no bullets should let fly!
Washington has ordered we must keep our powder dry."

So they turned their muskets round and swatted with the butts,
they pulled their Bowie knives and they tried to slash his guts.
The bear just took the beating, but he would stand the cuts.
He turned on his attackers clawing flesh and chewing heads.
By the time that he was finished, half Reid's men were lying dead.

Reid thought it a victory for that keg was tight and dry.
Every bit of powder meant another Redcoat boy would die.

When the dead were buried, and the night lightened to day,
The watch saw Indians approaching with warpaint and sharpened blades.
Bob whispered to Reid, "They are fighting for the crown."
"That may be so," said Reid, "but when Redcoats come around,
we need every bit of powder to shoot each soldier down."

Bob was going to answer when a bullet hit his lung.
The Indians weren't as stingy with their own powder drum.
Harry took the powder and he began to run.
Half his men were killed again,
just five left from when he had begun.

"Now we can fight," he said.
"We have plenty for each gun."

As the day was fading and they lay up there in wait,
a half dozen Redcoats approached them, lined up perfect in their sights.

Tom pulled back his hammer and almost fired a shot,
but Harry grabbed his barrel and said this squad need not be fought.
"A bigger army's coming, and no powder can be lost."

"But if we all are dead, then who will fire the shot?"
Tom tried to wrest rifle, but in the struggle it went off.
The Redcoats were upon them, and then all five were caught.

While he tied their hands, the British sargeant asked why they hadn't fired a shot.
Harry Reid said nice and loudly, "I cannot tell a lie,
Gen. Washington himself told me to keep my powder dry."

"But if you shot the bear, your men would have lived to fight.
And if you shot the Indians, and put a bullet in my eye,
you could have stole our powder and have more to be kept dry."

The soldier took his bayonet, and Harry had to die.
Then he killed the others,but man he told to fly,
and take with him the powder keg
with Reid's head in it to keep the powder dry.

[yurbud]

49. how many times are the Democrats going to fold? This isn't the first time, it's like 47 in a row

[Hubert Flottz]

52. So how do you think we can fix things in a hurry?

Vote for Ralph Nader? Or Mitt? Are you going to Iraq and end the war? Will you haul all the boys home by the fourth of July? Tell us how you'd do better? "What's Your Plan?"

[yurbud]

55. it's looking more and more like impeachment is the only option but they took that off the table

They could start investigating the real motives for the war to knock the legs out from under Bush's moderate republican support and shame some of his corporate patrons into cutting him loose.

The attorney firing scandal is good, but it's nibbling at the edges of Bush's crimes--probably because it's one of the few that didn't have bipartisan support.

the troops could withdraw from urban areas and then leave in an orderly fashion.

Don't tell me there will be a blood bath. You know no one in DC gives a flying fuck about that or they wouldn't have let Bush invade in the first place.

[yurbud]

56. what would you say is the appropriate time frame for ending the war? right after 2008 vote?

or after a Democratic president is re-elected?

or can we pull out as soon as the Iraqis sign that hydrocarbon law?

[Hubert Flottz]

59. what would you say is the appropriate time frame for ending the war?

ASAP!

But...everything in life is not always going to be the way we would like it to be.

Never has...Never will.

So you do your thing your own way, because you seem to have made up your mind on the best course for yourself. Best of luck to you and you have a wonderful trouble free life...if you can.

Bye Bye...

[GeorgeGist]

50. NO ...

shit.

This isn't the Democratic Playground.

[Edweird]

51. "The battles can't all be won by our side." There was no battle. The dems wrote a bill for bush.

"REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, you know, there’s a fundamental misperception about the path the Democrats should be taking. We shouldn’t be offering any legislation at all. We should just simply tell the President we’re not going to fund the war. And this idea about funding the war to help the troops is absurd. You want to help the troops, bring them home.

I offered a plan, HR 1234, that would provide for a plan that would bring the troops home, close the bases, end the occupation and reach out to the international community for an international peacekeeping and security force that would move in as our troops leave. But we can’t do that until we end the occupation. We can’t end the occupation until we stop funding the war. We simply do not have to have a bill, Amy. It’s just as simple as that.

JUAN GONZALEZ: What about those Democrats who argue that they could not get a majority vote or at least one that would survive a presidential veto to stop the funding, so that they’ve got to then have a concession of some sort?

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: I want to make sure I’m being clear about this. I’m saying that it’s not necessary to have a bill, that the process depends on legislation to keep the war going. But there’s money in the pipeline right now to bring the troops home. We simply should tell the President we’re not going to fund the war, period. We don’t need legislation to do that."

Don't give me any of that "it's all part of a bigger plan" bullshit.

[yurbud]

57. the bigger plan is to prove they are better stewards of the war.

[opihimoimoi]

54. I got my spears and crew ready to join the fight on the WALLthem Pubs ain't getting past our section

It seems the Pubs have everyone they can muster to throw rocks at our Pelosi/Reid Dem Party....

But they seem to Ignor the 6 years of persistent bad decisions from the Decider and the backup from the Pub Congress...They fucked America...gdm gas is $4.00 and soon to be $8 or 9 per gal....dats whot dey get for voting Pub...

Come, we go laugh

[Hubert Flottz]

58. Yep, it took seven years to fuck it all up to this point...

It may take seven more to repair the damage...it may never be repaired. The people who voted for Bush or the other guy, who looked different in 2000, own the disaster in Iraq. I've been against going into Iraq from day one and Bush never fooled me and you with ANY of his lies Opi.

So do we all just split up now like the GOPers planned on us doing and hand the White House right back over to Newt and Rudi in 2008? Is that how we win? Is that the new plan for taking the country back from the neocon mobsters?

Hell yes, lets party hardy and say fuck old glory! We'll throw her 230 year old ass away and get a new one at War-Wart and charge it to George, Dicky Ralph and Karl, on our Commie Chinese Charge-A Card!

Come we go Party and sing and forgetaboutit!

"Roll with it baby"

STEVE WINWOOD


When life is too much, roll with it, baby
Don't stop and lose your touch, oh no, baby
Hard times knocking on your door
I'll tell them you ain't there no more
Get on through it, roll with it, baby
Luck'll come and then slip away,Yu've gotta move, bring it back to stay

You just roll with it, baby
Come on and just roll with it, baby
You and me, roll with it, baby
Hang on and just roll with it, baby

The way that you love is good as money
I swear by stars above, sweet as honey
People think you're down and out
You show them what it's all about
You can make it, roll with it, baby
When this world turns its back on you
Hang in and do that sweet thing you do

You just roll with it, baby
You just roll with it, baby
Come on and just roll with it, baby
You and me, just roll with it, baby...MORE

http://www.mp3lyrics.org/s/steve-winwood/roll-with-it-baby/

[opihimoimoi]

62. These Pubs don't win by using Positive solutions/approaches...they dwell on the Negative

They install FEAR

Blame....

They Denigrate, Distort, Fool, Con, Scam, Lie, etc...and yet, they claim to be on Gods side....gimme a friggen Break..how moral can they be if using all those Neg personas?

The Pubs never want you to see the BIG PICTURE...this is why they fill the air waves with simplistic minutiae, where BS is blurred with the Truth...small divisive crap...takes you away from seeing the larger Picture

The PUBs are an EVIL BUNCH...look at the strong overpowering EVIDENCE...peeps are dying, wounded,
money wasted....on a war with peeps who had nothing to do with 9/11.....Bush is an EVIL GUY posing as a Hero....we seen his type before in History...

Come, we go drink...fuck all them trolls.

[mmonk]

60. There are two wars going on.

This is where a parliamentary system would come in handy.

[Robbien]

61. Doesn't surprise me that we are getting a lot of steady now type threads

Posters who get out all tired old slogans that say, " Shut your faces. YOU HAVE TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC NO MATTER WHAT. Now send all your money to Rahm, and Hoyer and any other DLCer/Blue Dog you can. "

[Edweird]

65. Maybe, but this was our Waterloo.