I can't take this shit anymore.

[Ladyhawk]

I actually sent a profanity-filled e-mail to Senator Reid, but the truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what I do. The idea that we the people have any power is an illusion. Getting Dems into office won't fix shit. Working within the system is a joke.

So, what do we do? I'm no revolutionary. The system is broken, but I don't see any moral way to fix it.

[porphyrian]

1. Welcome to the popular dilemma...

...and the recurring question: what the hell do we do now?

[Ladyhawk]

5. Thanks.

I think...

:( ... :cry: ... :grr: ... :banghead: ... :hide:

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. You forgot this one...

:argh:

[BuyingThyme]

2. Habeas Reid is just keeping his powder dry.

[WillyT]

9. LOL !!! - Habeas Reid... I LOVE That !!!

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

[Ladyhawk]

17. The current crop of Dems has the driest powder in history. n/t

[Mind_your_head]

24. LOL

:rofl:

Thanks for the much needed laugh.

[me b zola]

26. It is the seasoning necessary for fascist stew

[Neecy]

3. you summed up our problem very well

The system is broken, but I don't see any moral way to fix it.

We're trying to invoke our own morality into a situation that's completely immoral. It can't be done.

[Ladyhawk]

6. Like djohnson said downthread,

there may be a moral way, but we won't see the results. If the world lasts long enough, maybe my nephew's kids will see change in their lifetime. This sucks ass.

[DaveJ]

4. I have an idea

Start by supporting candidates of other parties at lower levels of government. Eventually they should rise to power and become electable in major races. It would take a lifetime, but it should work.

[KharmaTrain]

10. Hardly A Lifetime

It can begin for '08 right now by working on a local or congressional campaign...finding a candidate you can believe in and making things happen. It doesn't take long for someone to rise when they've got a good organization and strong netroots. '04 opened a door, '06 showed us what we could do and next year we can set an agenda for positive change.

We've suffered setbacks, but they should also be lessons and to turn passions and frustrations into something positive.

Cheers...

[Ladyhawk]

14. Concerning your avatar:

if it wasn't for Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, I'd be in the local loony bin.

[DaveJ]

21. My mistake, I was thinking more like a generation

A generation before the both the R's and D's are no more. But another thing to consider is that if other parties gain control at low levels, that would have a persuasive effect on the establishment immediately.

[KharmaTrain]

27. 100 Years Ago Most Of Us Would Have Been On Republican Underground

Teddy Roosevelt was the most progressive President...despite his corporate and imperalist nature. The Democrats were the party of Williams Jennings Bryant who would go on to prosecute Scopes, his monkey and Darwin...he was the Democratic standard bearer in 1896...and the many Southern members were also wearing white sheets. Meanwhile the Repugnicans were the first conservationists and pushed for civil rights. Of course that changed and forced TR to go Independent in '12 and then came LaFollette and eventually the Progressive movement and the Democratic party began to synch up.

Point is, things are cyclical and who knows what the future will bring. One would hope that we could enact change using the existing levers of power as that is the point of least resistance, but also never to be fooled into a utopian vision of how things should be that end up costing our causes setbacks.

[NavyDavy]

22. i think coming to a dem site and trying to get people to vote for

anyone other than a dem, shows no morality at all....

[question everything]

31. Plus it is against the "rules"

and can get your message deleted..

[Ladyhawk]

39. Flame wars are also against the rules, but I got "burned out" on them here...

...and stopped posting regularly.

[HardRocker05]

35. wow. is that what it's all about? blind loyalty to dems? shouldn't the dem party be a means to

an end? if it is the end itself, that is immoral, or at least has the potential to be immoral. and btw before you shoot off your response about how this is a private website for the promotion of the democratic party, and we can all like it or leave it, let me say that this is NOT A LEGAL ISSUE, it is a moral one, such as you alluded to in your response, and it is a logical one. if blind loyalty and censorship is good for the democratic party, then it is good for america, and we should just shut down DU right now and everybody head over to Free Repuglic, or admit that we are traitors to america. listen, criticism of, even to the point of voting against the democratic party is necessary for the health of the party, and presumably for the health of america, that is, if in fact the democratic party is only a means to ensure the health of america, and not an end in itself.

[Ladyhawk]

37. Yeah, djohnson is morally bankrupt, unlike the current Dem leadership.

:sarcasm:

[Romis]

28. I only wish.............

Ron Paul and Mike gravel should team up. That's the perfect pair.
I was a Democrat for over 35 years. I've just switched to
Independent. :)

[libodem]

7. I know

If anger and frustration caused spontaneous combustion, I'd be vaporized. Sometimes I worry that I paralyzed myself with rage and become impotent. I try to remind myself that flipping into lizard-brain freeze doesn't help the cause. However if you ever hear of a little pile of cinderized ash left at a computer desk with DU logged on the screen, it was me.

[90-percent]

8. answer?

Dennis Kucinich.

Everybody else is just a dem in name only.

-85% jimmy

[Mind_your_head]

19. If a person who would honestly work for the good of the nation

and it's people where to become Prez, wouldn't you be concerned that they might suffer the same fate as JFK and RFK? I worry about that b/c I believe that the military industrial complex (MIC) wouldn't put up with someone/ANYONE who would dare to cut off their business interests - and that's what would need to be done.

I thought that the Dems in Congress - b/c there's A LOT of them - would stand a better chance of standing up to the MIC than one single person as prez. Since they won't do that, well, I don't know where that leaves us - except "screwn", of course.

[Raksha]

40. Yes, I worry about that a LOT, and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned

on DU before.

If a person who would honestly work for the good of the nation
and it's people where to become Prez, wouldn't you be concerned that they might suffer the same fate as JFK and RFK? I worry about that b/c I believe that the military industrial complex (MIC) wouldn't put up with someone/ANYONE who would dare to cut off their business interests - and that's what would need to be done.

And the one I worry about especially is Al Gore. I agree with everyone who says that if he decides to run he'd win in a lanslide...BUT he had better have the best possible security at all times, AND make sure none of his Secret Service people are traitors. And even so, "they" could still find a way to get to him.

President Gore would be *THE* single biggest threat to the military/industrial complex to come along in my lifetime...and I am old enough to remember the assassinations of JFK and RFK very well. The MIC knows it and Al Gore knows it. I'm sure that's one of the reasons for his reluctance to declare himself a candidate, although it might not be the main one. But I'm sure it has crossed his mind, and we'd be blind if it didn't cross our minds too.

[Ladyhawk]

20. I voted for him last time.

:shrug:

The answer would have to include a bunch of Dems like Kucinich + hand-counted paper ballots + somehow legislating the news media under some kind of new fairness act + educating our incredibly stupid electorate.

Sorry, America. You ARE stupid. *slap* *SLAP* *SLAP* (I'm not letting myself off the hook on this one. I'm mentally slapping myself, too.)

[MuseRider]

12. As sad as it is you just made me laugh.

You and all the drummers from Spinal Tap, just a little spot of goo.

There very well could be lots of spots of goo sitting in front of the computer with DU on the screen. I am so infuriated I don't know what to do with myself. I think it is a good thing I am all by myself at the farm, I would be miserable company right now.

Thanks for the sad chuckle, better than no chuckle at all I guess. :shrug:

[Ladyhawk]

13. I went into "lizard-brain freeze" several months ago.

I told everyone I was taking an extended break from politics and it turns out it was probably a good thing. I doubt anything I could have down during the past few months would have changed the truth: Our political system is completely hosed.

So, hello Green Party?

I don't know.

[magellan]

23. Here's the problem I see with Third Party

It isn't what you think. It's simply that anyone, regardless of party and good intent, who goes to Washington now will be beset and besieged by the Corporate/MIC hegemony...and be rendered completely ineffectual if they kick against it. We're lost as a nation if we don't find a way to sever corporate interests from our government. Their corruptive influence pollutes the entire system. Sadly, short of starting again from Square One and all the obvious horrors that would involve, I don't see it happening.

I'll still be voting for Kucinich in the primaries. But even if my some miracle he were to get through and then further, win the presidency, look at what he'd have to work with. I suspect he'd get very little positive change done. It just wouldn't be allowed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Senator Reid's office will likely delete any profanity-filled e-mails from CA residents

[Ladyhawk]

15. No doubt...and so what? That's my point.

It wouldn't matter what I wrote to the son of bitch. Writing to our reps accomplishes NOTHING.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. YOUR reps? Or other states' reps?

:shrug:

[Oilwellian]

33. As majority rep in the Senate....

he represents ALL Dems when he sets the agenda. It would be nice if he started doing that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. No, he represents the Democratic Senators, not the constituents of those Senators

If you want to influence him, you need to get the Democratic Senators to do it.

[grasswire]

18. we are fighting against a thirty year campaign...

...that was extremely well-funded and driven by ideologues.

The right put their money into institutions that would hide their actions. Publications, think tanks, universities, etc. People like Richard Mellon Scaife invested fortunes in the strategic plan. Their fruit is just starting to be harvested.

And we are decades behind them and (essentially) clueless about their deeper gambits.

The hunting of Bill Clinton wasn't about Bill Clinton. It was about turning the electorate off on impeachments. The politicization of the DoJ wasn't about performance. It was about election fraud -- deep, dirty election fraud on a scale we can barely comprehend. The Plame leak wasn't about punishing Joe Wilson. It was about stopping Valerie Plame's anti-proliferation work.

Karl Rove drops red herrings and snipes to hunt and false flags like a cheap stripper throws off her dainties. All designed to distract and titillate.

And we are decades behind the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

We can't expect to catch them unless money is dumped into real political strategists.

Why is the Democratic Party not running on its strengths??

Why do our candidates not stand up for our tradition?

I know, I know. It's all about the corporations and lobbyists.

Sigh.

[Ezlivin]

25. What did the proletariat do when Lenin was gaining power?

What did ordinary Germans do when Hitler was gaining power?

Answer those two and you'll probably answer your own question.

[question everything]

30. Depends what you want to accomplish by

"getting Demos into office."

Iraq is not on top for most voters.. as long as we don't have the draft. And if, by a miracle, the "surge" will yield results, more voters will be willing to cut Bush some slack.

No, we sent Democrats into office because we are concerned about the eroding middle class, about quality of education, about job stability, and access to affordable health care, and a dignified retirement.

We don't want any more Alito or Roberts in the Supreme Court and we want to protect the environment.

Yes, we want to bring our troops home and we want to stop the waste of life and money in Iraq. But, hopefully, most intelligent voters are more than single issue ones.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[bdamomma]

32. and like those who ran away from their injustices for a better life

to come here to America, we have no where to run. :grr:

[liberal renegade]

36. When does the revolution begin?

[Rex]

38. It falls apart and then the crooks flee the crime scene

then WE get to clean up the mess, same as always. And yes, they are very very stupid people.