I know there is a lot of anger over the D's in Congress, and

[rasputin1952]

while I'm not going to defend the recent vote or the compromises made, I do understand where the D's are coming from.

Politics is a nasty business, and it takes time to get things in order. What looks like a failure in one instance may well be a flanking move to outwit an opponent. We have all seen what a GOP Congress that refused to compromise has gotten us. From what I have seen, this not a huge compromise, as no date was set before. I don't know why they went w/this, but bush gets clobbered as well, as it opens up domestic spending, which has been neglected for 5+ years.

I want our brothers an sisters home as well. I want them home now, but I realize that tat particular option is not in the cards right now. What we have to do is keep pressure on this p.o.s. administration, and Congress, but we also need to realize we cannot get the whole pie in one fell swoop; that is not the way the system works.

Over the course of the weekend. we may find out more...I'm not happy either, but I'm not going to jump on the "beat them into the ground" wagon either.

Please...let's find out details before we all start fires that tend to get out of control...:)

[uppityperson]

1. Shame on them.

[wtmusic]

3. Agree. There's always an excuse.

You either vote for what's right or you don't.

[Grandrose]

2. I agree.....

Be sure to put on your asbestos, still a lot of angry people around!
Bye...gotta run!!!:yoiks:

[MuseRider]

4. Death is a nasty business

and all the deaths from now on will be owned by them as well as the R's. Yup, I would love to beat them into the ground right now. Politics be damned, people are dying.

[Sonicmedusa]

15. I will repeat....PEOPLE ARE DYING.

I have no patience with whatever their "game" is.

[MuseRider]

16. I will thank you

for being on the right side of this issue. My god, I have two sons who would be over there if there was a draft. It just makes me hurt every time I hear of another death.

There is right and there is wrong. Elevating your position over the dead bodies of others is wrong. I thought that was pretty obvious but I guess not.

[tnlefty]

18. AMEN and thanks!

I spoke with a fellow band parent at my 8th graders awards luncheon 2 days ago. I asked her how she was doing and she said fairly okay. I then asked about her son who I knew has been deployed in Iraq twice. She stated that he's okay, but not so good. She got this very strange look on her face and then stated that he's in Iraq again for the 3rd time. She still had the vacant look in her eyes, and I told her that whether she realizes it or not, I think of her and her family at least once a week.

This has been going on for her since prior to the '04 election. I attended a football game prior to the election with a MOB button on (Mothers Opposing Bush) and she asked me if I had any more. I dug around in my purse and found 4 buttons and 2 bumperstickers. I told her I would get her some more and I gave them to her one afternoon after school. This just breaks my heart for her and for so many others.

Playing politics just doesn't cut it for me anymore!

[MuseRider]

19. "Playing politics just doesn't cut it for me anymore!"

Not when it is done over dead bodies. How can they sleep at night? What on earth makes them think this will even help them get re-elected? I am assuming that is the entire point of this, well also stuffing their pockets. Gods this is just horrible. The next time you see this woman tell her that someone else is also thinking of her and her son.

While typing this reply I just heard this reported in a cheery manner on my local news. Geeze, how does anyone sleep at night anymore?

[noamnety]

5. "it's not the way the system works"

They ARE the system. Funding the war is how they just MADE the system work.

[Richard Steele]

7. Exactly. That's no damn excuse at all.

[rasputin1952]

9. Since this country has beena soverign nation, politics has bee

the art of compromise. All politics is about compromise, any adept politician will know what and how, he/she can benefit the most people and the nation by knowing when to compromise.

FWIW, compromise is not necessarily defeat, you have to look at what was gained as well. Yes, there are people dying in a misguided war...I despise bush for this catastrophe, but is the answer to jsut go back and forth w/this maniac? I don't think so, and if I were in charge I would have told him to go fuck himself and cut all funding for the war and the administration!

I am a realist, I know that I can't have everything I want. I can only fight for the best poosible outcome at the time. Next week, we will see more of why this happened, and posturing to prepare another
assaulton bushco.

I am not happy w/what happened, but I'm moving toward the future battle now. I did not expect 170+ days to be able to change the course of the nation, these things take time.

[noamnety]

20. That's not a compromise.

A compromise is when you are willing to give up something of your own in order to get something.

Not when you are willing to pay someone else to kill other people so you can get something.

[mmonk]

6. It's not how the system is supposed to work.

It's what it has warped into. We could get the pie if all democrats opposed the bush administration's foreign policy. Our problem is not all do. We're ineffective as long as that is the case. It's why I support defending the constitution and voting for articles of impeachment in the house. But I guess there must be some that don't have a problem with the high crimes. There's so much wrong and so much immorality or lacking an adequate moral compass in our government. We can only ride the train to hell until it stops.

[rasputin1952]

13. We don't have to ride the train until it stops...we can engineer

the course the train will run on the tracks...but it takes time. I know that for every minute our people are in danger in this fiasco, another might die for something that has little to do with protecting the nation or pushing democracy.

We do need to get out of there, and quickly, that is why this funding is only for 4 months. I hope and pray no one gets killed in that 4 months, but I fear that many will. At the end of the 4 months, it will take 4 more to get people ready to pull out. In my opinion, our troops should be preparing now for a withdrawal. They should pull into their perimeters and let the Iraqi's do the work. We should only use our forces if absolutely necessary. This isn't gonna happen, but it is the best option at this point.

No one on this site despises Little Boots more than I. But I also understand that politics is all about maneuvering and positioning your opponent into a corner so as to topple him. I don't know where all of this is going, because I am not privy to what went down in the back rooms...but I know that Pelosi is politically savvy, and Reid is no slouch either.

[NavyDavy]

8. as usual you can't please 100% of people 100% of the time....

I think the bill was the right thing to do....why should the troops suffer.....asbestos suit on!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

11. the troops would not have suffered any more than they do daily now,

maybe more so since their return date keeps disappearing...

[BuyingThyme]

10. Let us know what details you're missing and we'll get 'em straightened out.

[MadHound]

12. One dead innocent. . . . . .another dead innocent. . . . . and another. . . . .

And another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another

How long are you really willing to wait? People are dying while the Dems are taking time to get things in order. Sadly, the Dems could put an end to this now if they would simply defund the war. But nooo, they have to play politics with people's lives

. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another

[rasputin1952]

14. Your argument is not w/me, it is w/bush, he is the one who

is killing our citizens.

When was the last time you called or wrote the WH?

When was the last time you stood in the cold rain to make your point?

I've been fighting this bastard since day one. I've been there in meetings, have gone to my Rep's townhall meetings and held them to task. I've worked to get a D Senator elected, and I amn out in all kinds of weather, going door to door to try and wake people up to what is going on. I've served my time in the Army and been down the road to war...I hate it, and wish I could bring all of them home today.

But that is not my option, and I really don't think that just blaming Congress, w/o knowledge of what happened behind the curtains will do anything but start flame wars w/o end. They are never productive, and keep people from moving on to end this tragedy.

[MadHound]

21. You are not the only one who has worked hard to end the war

I live right next, in a state almost as red as yours, and I've done my time in the rain, the cold, going door to door. Writing letters, emails, phoning, yes all of that and more too, starting back when I was child during the Vietnam war. Yes, I've paid my dues, so don't act so condescending, as though you are the only one with moral authority to speak here. You aren't.

Yes, this is Bush's war, he started it. However he was initially enabled by those Dems who voted for it, voted for the IWR. And now, sadly, after we all worked so hard to get Democratic majorities into Congress to stop this war, the Dems are enabling him again, giving him the money to continue his blood frenzy.

And perhaps the most infuriating thing about this proposition is that the Dems could end this war quickly and easily. Simply hold up those supplemental war funding bills in Congress and force the troops to be brought back home. Yet after all of our hard work, after all of our great hope that they would end this war, when they have the means to end this war within their grasp, the Dems decide that they're going to play politics with people's lives.

. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . .

It isn't so much that I'm pissed for all of our hard work going for naught. It is the fact that while the Dems fiddle fart fuck around playing politics, people are dying. All while the means to end this bloodshed is within their grasp, if they would only reach out.

. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . . and another. . . .

There are no excuses for this, no explanation that suffices as to why the Dems play political games as innocents die. None whatsoever. All for naught, all for political games.

[rasputin1952]

23. When you were a child duimg the Vietnam war, I was fighting it

I was fighting it.

Everyone here earned their stripes fighting bush and his demonic shit, but I can be as condescending as I want to be.

I have heard people screech and scream, and I have screeched and screamed with them. I have fought tirelessly for unity on the D side of things. I believe that we can beat this bastard, but we need to be together, and quit arguing about who is bring what falvor bagel to breakfast.

We do this every time. When we don't get our way, and then don't even look at WHY, we run off on all kinds of tangents. My point is to focus on getting bush out of WH, out of the country and leave him with no options.

We have to stand together, and forget all of this divisive crap. Screaming on a pc does nothing. Preaching to the choir is a waste of time and effort.

I'm gearing up for the next fight. I won't lay back and squawk, there is work to do. I've sent out my e-mails to the pinheads that voted against my wishes, I've made my phone calls, and tomorrow, I'll be at work making sure everyone knows that bush is a shithead.

[MadHound]

24. Yes, you can be as condescending as you want to be

Funny attitude for a person who was, just a couple of posts ago, voicing his wish not to get into a flame war. Now you're acting like King Shit for the day. Really great way to not be devisive:eyes:

Look, you may willing to let our so called leaders off the hook for this fubar shit, but many people aren't. Besides, if you don't hold people responsible for their actions in a representative democracy, how the hell are the people to have any voice?

So be as condescending as your bad self wants. Doesn't mean that a body has to sit still for it.

[antonialee839]

17. My Congress Critter voted the right way

and I'm very proud of him. Patrick Murphy 8th District Pa. He really cares about the troops, he was one.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Good post. Agreed. Dems challenged, Chimpy asserted his Decider

status, Dems lost. He's the Preznit, Harry Reid and Pelosi are not--there is only so much they can do without becoming obstructionist or denying needed funding, and I personally don't support defunding. We're all disappointed, but now we move on, and wait for the next opportunity to change course. I don't condemn ANY Dem their vote on this one, really--not Biden, not Durbin, not Byrd, not Murtha, not Webb, nor my own Senators, Nelson and Hagel. None of these are "bad" people who want the war to go on indefinitely. They just didn't have it in their hearts or consciences to continue to fight this particular fight when they knew it was ultimately going to be pointless. Good for those who stood on principle and voted no, but I don't have the knives out for those who acted on pragmatism.

[rasputin1952]

25. The point is to not self-destruct like the R's are doing...

I am not happy w/what the vote came out to be, but there are other fights and victories to be gained.

bush is an asshole, he has taken the Office of the Presidency to new lows, but a wise warrior knows when to prepare for the next battle, and learn from those he has fought before. As much as I'd like to see bush crushed and sent to the basement of the WH, I can wait. Unfortunately, and to my great dismay, more Americans will be killed and wounded. But I am not in favor of a junta to get rid of this miserable little twit in the WH. We have to do this legally, and be assured that we can win the battle. Impeaching this jerk w/o the votes to remove him from office is an act of futility; besides, both he and cheney would have to go...that makes Pelosi the next president, does anyone believe that the R's would let that happen?

He has 4 months, actually a lot less as the pressure brews. We didn't let him off the hook, we got some spending for domestic problems that this war has covered up, and soon, there will be a bill to raise the minimum wage, and deal w/infrastructure that is crumbling.

We can beat Little Boots, but we will do it with a combination of our terms and the mess he's made. Each day, we gain a little ground...bush has doomed the GOP for decades, we can make it a generation, but it will take time and coordination.

[Blue_Roses]

26. thank-you!

and well said.:applause:

Finally, a voice of reason...

[noamnety]

27. We would have a LOT MORE money for domestic problems

if they DIDN'T approve the bill.

It's beyond me how bankrupting the country now and for future generations can be spun as solving our domestic economic problems.

[rasputin1952]

28. We would have billions more if we could stop the war in Iraq...

but that is not in the cards at this moment.

This nation is already bankrupt, bush and his cronies have assured that we will be paying for his bullshit for many years to come.

The domestic spending in the bill does not come close to mending anything, but it is a tart. I believe that each foot of ground we gain, we will have to fight for tooth and nail. Right now, is not the time to dig in our heels and be immobile...one of the reasons the GOP is in so much trouble today is because the refused top negotiate, it was all or nothing. I don't think we should take the same route.

There are some serious problems facing us right now, the war being the priority, but this directive that bush signed that could give him dictatorial powers is even worse. This insane little bastard needs to bo ousted, and quickly. He is doing precisely what every other dictator has done, and he is stupid enough, and just insane enough to think he can pull off a coup.