When you imagine full economic recovery

[ProSense]

where are the jobs and who is doing the hiring?

[leftstreet]

1. WPA

infrastructure, healthcare, social services, manufacturing, farming, etc

Hired by we, the people

[ProSense]

4. WPA

has to be passed by Congress. They're unlikely to fund another large stimulus, they're hedging on a $50 billion infrastructure investment and they wouldn't even fund a successful jobs program.

A Jobs Program That Works

Job Subsidies Providing Help to Private Side

Stimulus Jobs on State’s Bill in Mississippi

Job Loss Looms as Part of Stimulus Act Expires

Kerry Pushes TANF Extension to Save Jobs for Working Families

How do you see this happening?

[leftstreet]

9. "They're unlikely to fund another large stimulus" Oh. Then they must have a plan

...otherwise they're unlikely to get re-elected

I can't wait to hear what they've come up with!

[ProSense]

10. Don't know if they do or not.

A lot of them are Republicans who likely don't care.

[leftstreet]

12. Guess we should have done something when we had the majority

oh well

[ProSense]

14. There was something done

a stimulus package passed as well as some other job creating provisions.

[leftstreet]

20. Then why did you post an OP asking what we can do about the employment crisis?

wait...wut?

[ProSense]

21. The OP is asking what next

not what should have been done at the beginning of 2009.

What can be done now, and how to you envision a recovery going foward?

[leftstreet]

27. Socialism is next

If there's no Capitalism-saving FDR messiah on the horizon...

[Tippy]

2. There will be no full recovery.....SCOTUS saw to that....

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Full-on push for green initiatives, more of a focus on social/eco-entrepreneurship

A combination of government, local business and individual grassroots community investments (us!) in things like retrofitting existing structures to be energy efficient, rehabbing abandoned structures for more housing, urban gardening initiatives, permaculture, microenterprise, etc.

The first things I listed will create jobs -- create a lot of good progress on all levels -- and I just DO NOT understand why there isn't a bigger push for it.

While I'm at it, in case anyone reading this identifies, I'm going to put out my plea here since the small business forum here at DU has so little activity:

Do you identify or resonate with the terms social entrepreneur, eco-entrepreneur and/or spiritual entrepreneur? I'm trying to find a community where regular people gather to discuss cooperative ventures, microenterprise ideas and the like; a community of people who want to DO MORE and join with others who feel the same, to create a new way of doing...everything! If you feel the same, I invite you to join this forum where we can gather to brainstorm and DO.

If there is an existing forum or group already doing this, please let me know -- I've been searching for them!

Thanks. :hi:

[ProSense]

7. Good:

"A combination of government, local business and individual grassroots community investments (us!) in things like retrofitting existing structures to be energy efficient, rehabbing abandoned structures for more housing, urban gardening initiatives, permaculture, microenterprise, etc."

There are a lot of terrific initiatives underway. It would take a huge commitment and effort to produce the number of jobs required for full recovery.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. Along with infrastructure rebuilding (WPA as noted above)...

many jobs could be created with the green initiatives (thanks for link; I also wrote the Office of Social Innovation while there :)).

Yet it, somehow, must engage the large corporations and have them realize they will eventually cease to exist unless they also work to save the country. The funds they're hoarding must be plowed back into the economy.

Citizens United needs to be overturned (constitutional amendment I believe is what is required), and -- somehow -- those who run multinational corporations must find their humanity and start truly investing in the local communities.

Or, we find a way to starve that particular beast and truly work to shift the economy to Main Street only, which I prefer anyway and is the only sustainable model for the long term.

All levels must work together to get us out of this hole: government, big business, small business, grassroots organizations, individuals.

I realize it's a Pollyanna view, but I prefer working toward something rather than giving up and admitting defeat, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy.



edit for typo

[ProSense]

24. Agree

Infrastructure and clean energy investments are going to be key. The WPA helped fueled a recovery, but it was not the sole solution. There is no getting around the private sector, small businesses, etc.

It's important to eliminate the ways in which multinational corporations can abuse the process and stifle the middle-class.

[Enrique]

5. Soylent Corporation

and I will be grateful to them. :patriot:

[yurbud]

45. they have been bought out by Service Corporation International, the largest funeral home business

they said something about vertical integration, synergy, and complementary functions.

Soon after the merger, they divested themselves of all of their cemeteries, saying they would no longer be needed.

[CoffeeCat]

6. I do not imagine a recovery...

I just imagine continuing to adjust and prepare for the new reality.

Recovery?

Jobs are being outsourced. Manufacturing continues to erode as cheap labor is found in other countries and corporations can increase profits by doing so. PLUS,
they are monetarily rewarded for shipping jobs overseas in the form of tax breaks. So, that's not improving.

Companies continue to force workers to put in more hours, sometimes working the jobs of many. Companies have us by the gonads, because everyone is worried about
becoming unemployed. People suck it up and work longer and harder hours because they need that job and are terrified of unemployment.

The jackals are at the gates--wanting to privatize Social Security, cut Medicare and other benefits that we've been counting on. We must prepare for a world in
which these benefits are severely cut, or simply do not exist anymore.

Corporations own our government. They decide how healthcare works in this country. They decide the fate of our environment by operating irresponsibly and
causing damage to our livelihoods. Just as the Gulf shrimpers who are slowly being wiped out by the remaining oil and poisonous Corexit that was dumped
into the Gulf. By the way, the EPA told BP to stop using Corexit--BP continued. Corporations are in control, people. They will continue to cost us jobs
and a loss of safety. We will be forced to pay for more bailouts, more in health-care costs and in lost wages--due to their greed.

Recovery--is contingent upon a healthy middle class that prospers, spends and stimulates the economy. You can't have a true recovery without a healthy middle
class. It's been proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt--that the elites, corporate mucky mucks and our corrupt politicians share a PROFOUND DISDAIN for the
middle class. We are detestable whiners, free loaders and lazy dolts to them. They will continue with their policies that harm the middle class and
enrich themselves. We might get a win here and there--but the middle class has been chosen for extinction. With these greedmongers at the helm, there
is no recovery. Period.

It's a global economy now. The corporatist empire knows that their interests (and banks accounts) are furthered in a global dynamic. The health and
well being of the U.S economy is irrelevant to them. It's just a piece of their lavish pie now. Outsourcing and overseas cheap labor will continue
to suck this country dry and further this global paradigm--because it works for the mucky mucks and the king makers.

Recovery? Oh please. All you can do is find out how best to survive--become trained in a field that will prosper during this nightmare--and try to hold
on to what you've got. Stay debt free, don't use credit cards, be frugal and smart. Recovery assumes that we will return to a previous state. It's just
not going to happen.

It's a new reality out there. Doesn't mean people won't prosper in it. Some will. However, many, many will suffer and die.

Good luck to all of us.

[ProSense]

8. So you're saying we're doomed?

What will prevent doom?

[Ikonoklast]

11. Nothing, as long we keep going in the direction we've been for the last thirty years.

The recent economic unpleasantness that hit not only hurt the working poor but the middle-class white-collar workers was just a small sample of what the immediate future holds if this country doesn't radically re-think what is important to the economic security of the nation.

There will be more to come.

Without people earning a living wage, and have employment that is worthwhile, this economy will remain in trouble.


It is a dangerous downward spiral that must be stopped.

It can become an issue of national security.

Eliminating tax breaks for corporations to build factories and employ people overseas would be a step in the right direction...the very people that lost those jobs are subsidizing their former employers through tax policy to move them off-shore.

[ProSense]

16. Agree. Something drastic needs to be done, but the downward spiral

has slightly, unnoticeably even, been reversed.

State of Working America preview: The declining value of minimum wage

The President needs to make good on his commitment to increase the minimun wage.

[Ikonoklast]

23. The overall decline in real wages and purchasing power

has been a real double whammy to most working people in this country, and has been rippling throughout the economy for quite some time now.

Access to cheap credit filled the gap for a while, and we see how well that worked out for us.

The real minimum wage should be around twelve dollars an hour; set a floor for every working person and see other wages rise in response.

With current deflationary pressure countering any inflation pressure due to these rising wages, the economy would see an immediate benefit as people start to spend that additional income on purchases they had previously postponed or just couldn't afford.

[ProSense]

29. True

"Access to cheap credit filled the gap for a while, and we see how well that worked out for us."

That's why reports of a decline in consumer credit doesn't bother me. It was inflated and used as a tool to trap people. The more people who stay away from the trap the better. There are better ways to drive economic growth than forcing people to spend money they don't have, and then creating a nightmare for them when they run into financial trouble.

[Ikonoklast]

56. Exactly right.

The availability of cheap credit in lieu of real wages as nothing but a debt trap for people that can't ever foresee a downturn in their economic fortunes, or that do have a decent income that just stopped paying close enough attention to their overall debt load.

What this country needs is citizens with employment that provides enough income for their basic economic needs, and some discretionary income as well.

We have been living from paycheck to paycheck as individuals as well as a country far, far too long.

It is time to change that.

[CoffeeCat]

15. I'm not saying that we're doomed...

I'm saying that there's a new sheriff in town--and he doesn't give a rip about the middle class. The elites
and corporations run the town.

We're seeing the consequences of that now. Have you seen the charts and graphs that show how wealth is being
amassed at the top, as the middle class loses? We'll continue to see more and more of that. Plus, the safety
net will continue to shrink as this whole, "We must reduce the debt by cutting every social program!" malarkey is
used to justify cutting off those in need.

Not everyone is going to sink into oblivion. Even at the peak of unemployment in the Great Depression--68 percent
of people had jobs. It's not going to be a Cormack McCarthy novel.

However, it's going to be not fun.

I see people talking about green jobs and such. Oh please. I don't mean to be such a negative Nelly--but
come on, the corporations own us. The oil companies aren't going to relinquish their power, enough to cut
into their profits. Yes, some good will happen--but surely not enough to make a difference in our economy on
a macro level.

It is what it is. Government by the corporations, of the corporations and for the corporations. Without a big
revolution and a return to real democracy--there can be no recovery. Those in charge are focused on profits
for themselves. Our politicians used to work for "the people", now they work for Wall Street, the energy
companies, the health-insurance giants, big pharma and anyone else who has enough to buy into the system.

Take Michael Chertoff for example. He works for the company that manufactures those full-body scan machines
that take naked pictures of us at the airports. Talk about a scam. Chertoff's influence allowed him to buy
into the new government program of, "Why don't we have the TSA implement a new security mandate that forces
all Americans to be scanned. You buy the machines from me, I become rich. I provide under-the-table payola
to my friends in government."

Do you think the elites and our corrupt politicians who behave like this--give a damn about Bob the construction
worker or Sally the washing-machine line worker--who have lost their jobs? Oh, hell no. The decision makers
are greedy sociopaths.

We were all living the dream for a while. It wasn't a perfect dream, but it was nice. We were all warm on the
sand, on a nice island. Now, we're in the middle of the ocean, in a storm--trying to hold on. You want to know
when we're going to get back to the island. That island just doesn't exist anymore. We have to start over in
a new land and rebuild. The problem is--many in our country are just fine hunkering down and pretending that
there is no storm. Easy to do when distractions like "Dancing With the Stars" is on and blonds are constantly
disappearing from Spring Break vacations.

I have hope that we can all paddle to new shores, start anew and build something even better than we had 50
years ago. However, it's going to take a revolution to do that. I don't think we're doomed. I just think
we face one of the greatest challenge our country has ever faced.

[ProSense]

17. Fine, but

you still didn't offer a solution.

[laughingliberal]

22. Only for a decade or 2. After people are tired of starving & there's nothing left

...for the oligarchs to steal, people will be able to pick up and start rebuilding. Several countries in LA have seen the people successfully rebuilding countries after the oligarchs were toppled.

I'll be gone by then, for sure, but I have hope for those who will be here and their efforts.

[ProSense]

26. Sorry

waiting around for more suffering is not the answer.

[laughingliberal]

30. 'Do' whatever you like. It's still going to be a long time before we see anything like 'recovery'

for 98% of the people in this country. Oh, they may throw a few lower paying, no bene jobs out here and there to ease some of the anger of those whose lives have been stolen but it's going to take what it took in LA for people to truly wake up. And it will take Americans much longer to wake up what with all the supply side, free market orthodoxy they're infused with.

It's not all bad. There will be some entertainment value, once they've stolen all we have left, in watching the parasites start turning on each other.

[ProSense]

33. Wait

"It's still going to be a long time before we see anything like 'recovery' for 98% of the people in this country. Oh, they may throw a few lower paying..."

98 percent of the people and lower paying in the same sentence? People in the top 5 percent are earning more than $150,000 per year.

[laughingliberal]

36. Uh huh. Well, I hope they enjoy it while they can. nt

[northernlights]

32. exactly...

The first step to the solution is to stop looking to the top for the solution, because the only thing that's going to continue to trickle down from there is urine. They may have slowed the flow of urine temporarily...or maybe just aimed their dicks in another direction for a while. But they haven't stopped the piss-down economics, because it's really all about taking everything of value for themselves while we're drowning is piss.

The second step to the solution is to turn to each other and, to the best of our ability, rebuild a real local economy.

Second step, part A: Save what few dollars you have to keep a roof over your head.

Second step part B: Invest the rest in caring for yourself and those in your immediate vicinity, because nobody but nobody is going to come riding in to your rescue.

Second step part C: set up bartering with your neighbors. Serious bartering. Not knick-knacks that nobody needs. Grow your own food if possible. Learn to save seed. Raise chickens or ducks if you have the room. Goats if you have even more room and like brats. Develop the skills and tools to do things that you need to survive, and you'll be able to barter those skills and creations for the things you can't do.

In this way, we may be able to hasten the downfall of the elite...or at least they'll go steal from someone else. Those who are able to survive will then have the breathing space they need to rebuild from the ground up.

[laughingliberal]

34. Perfectly explained. I'm in communication with several who are looking for ways to start building...

communities like the ones you describe.

The other option we're looking at is getting out but it's touch and go if we will be able to scrape up the resources to do that while there's still time.

[OneGrassRoot]

38. There's a huge movement for local sustainable communities...

It seems common sense to me that we should pursue this approach, even while other paths are pursued by others.

Again, I seem to go against the grain in believing we can multitask and approach things from multiple angles and levels.

But I do feel the authentic grassroots approach is the only truly sustainable model for the long term. And, I think we can choose that as a wise path to take, rather than viewing it as a means to endure the apocalypse.

I wish people viewed it more as a very positive, joyful thing to engage in -- true local sustainable communities -- rather than a survival mechanism (even though it's that as well, of course).

Not sure if that makes sense...lol.

[laughingliberal]

49. I agree with people working in different ways

I think there is value in people continuing to work within the Democratic party to effect real changes. I admire those still working in that direction. After decades of activism within the party, though, circumstances and motivation are driving me in another direction. The overwhelming sense that I'm back in my parents' home where we were constantly promised things would change only to find we remained in the same hopelessly oppressive and abusive environment year after year prevents my expending much energy in this area as priorities demand we now deal with the issues of survival right now. We are a bit older and have to consider carefully where the expenditures of our dwindling energy can be best spent.

I, too, wish the push for local, sustainable communities was being spurred more by vision and not as much by necessity but it is the necessity that is driving it, right now. Certainly, that is the case for us. However, as many do this out of necessity and are sucessful, I believe it will blaze a trail for those who are not forced into it but who come to see it as the wave of the future.

In looking at the multi-pronged approach, I even see a place for those who choose to leave the US. As they settle in other places where things are done differently, they will be able to educate those left behind in what they are seeing working in other places.

There is room for all of us.

[OneGrassRoot]

50. Well said...

And I completely understand many are beyond tired, having fought the good fight for decades. :hug:

I agree with everything else you wrote as well.

More :hug:

[laughingliberal]

51. Thanks

:hug: backatcha

[ProSense]

35. Interesting

"The first step to the solution is to stop looking to the top for the solution, because the only thing that's going to continue to trickle down from there is urine. They may have slowed the flow of urine temporarily...or maybe just aimed their dicks in another direction for a while. But they haven't stopped the piss-down economics, because it's really all about taking everything of value for themselves while we're drowning is piss.

The second step to the solution is to turn to each other and, to the best of our ability, rebuild a real local economy."

So why have people been wasting time looking to the President and allowing the Republicans to dominate at the local level?

Seriously, it seems that only counter arguments to whatever are being made, not real arguments.

[laughingliberal]

54. The first step is for people to recognize where we really are.

Until they are able to see that, there is nothing that can be done to effect any change. Until they see that the politicians no longer work for us, they will continue to spin their wheels thinking the rulers will do the right thing by us before it's too bad.

People need to start looking at things realistically and quit waiting for the day when our leaders will put things right for us. They won't and they have no desire to do so. Their owners have made it unsavory for them to help us.

[AdHocSolver]

43. The middle class are suckers waiting to be fleeced, and once they are fleeced, they are irrelevant.

A majority of the middle class suffers from the same misinformation bloat that many here on DU suffer from. They don't understand what is happening in the economy, they swallow the bilge about the economy told to them by the pundits and economists, and they are waiting for the knight in shining armor to come and rescue them.

Sorry folks, but there is no modern-day FDR out there coming to rescue you.

A few large multinational corporations run the U.S. economy and control the U.S. government.

These corporations buy our politicians and pay very little in taxes.

The Federal Reserve is an important enabler of this pillaging of America, through its control of interest rates and the money supply.

Corporate cartel agreements such as NAFTA, the WTO, the World Bank, and the IMF are an important means of control of the world's economies.

The terms "free trade" and "globalization" are not descriptive economic terms, but made up buzz words to stifle complaints about loss of jobs due to corporate anticompetitive policies. "We can't help it if we offshore jobs. We need to do so to remain competitive.", wail the corporations.

Nonsense! The world's economies are tightly controlled by a few large multinational corporations. There is NO competition for them.

The GDP figures, like the official unemployment figures, and the figures describing "inflation" are all rigged.

Want to know what is happening in the economy? Forget GDP, forget the complex graphs, and ignore the pundits who spout useless verbiage. Read the stories about closing factories, offshoring jobs, house foreclosures, homeless people, government deficits, the growing number of people without health care, and the obscene bonuses given to bankers and corporate executives. This information is all you need to know to understand where the U.S. economy is headed.

The bottom line is what can we do to save the U.S. economy. Waiting for our bought and paid for politicians to solve the problems means you will never see it happen.

The idea that, if things get bad enough, our politicians will save us before it is too late is right up there with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The people have to hit the capitalists in their pocket books, and stop playing the game of sucker.

Stop buying their imported crap while you still have money to spend. Buy American made goods from local companies, and demand U.S. made goods be made available for purchase in the major corporate run stores or you won't shop there.

Once you run out of money to spend, the corporations won't care what you do, as you represent no profit for them.

If you have savings in a bank, demand that they pay you more interest or you will put your money elsewhere. If only a few people do this, then they will ignore you. However, if lots of people complain to the banks, they will have to listen to the people.

They will tell you that the Fed sets the interest rates, and it is out of their control. Nonsense! The Fed is controlled by the banks and is a major player in the Ponzi schemes that have been ripping off Americans.

It is long past the time to "explain" what is happening. Forget economic theory. Most of it is nonsensical babble anyways. Anyone with half a brain can understand what is happening. Open your eyes and your mind.

[laughingliberal]

53. Right! The only reason the oligarchs and their pet politicians are still pretending to acknowledge..

us at all is there are still a few pennies out here they haven't scammed us out of, yet.

Not much we can do except withhold what money we have from them. Provide however much you are able for yourself to deny them the profit for that little piece. Move money out of the big banks into one that works for you.

Starve the corporate beast in whatever small ways you can. They are feeling the pinch, already, of so many who have quit spending as they've lost everything. Many people doing little things to deny them more money will have an impact.

[laughingliberal]

52. Spot on! nt

[Edweird]

18. WPA and CCC. Citizens hired by the government and not private corporations.

Yes, I already know your response will be "he just can't do it" - to which I reply: BS, if he has the desire to do it, it would be possible. He has indicated that he has no interest in helping anyone but the very corporations that have repeatedly screwed us over. His calls for 'bipartisanship' are merely an excuse for him to enact more RW garbage.

[ProSense]

19. "Yes, I already know your response will be 'he just can't do it' - to which I reply: BS"

What a way to have a discussion.

Well, I responded to a similar point above, but let me repeat:

The members of Congress are unlikely to fund another large stimulus, they're hedging on a $50 billion infrastructure investment and they wouldn't even fund a successful jobs program.

A Jobs Program That Works

Job Subsidies Providing Help to Private Side

Stimulus Jobs on State’s Bill in Mississippi

Job Loss Looms as Part of Stimulus Act Expires

Kerry Pushes TANF Extension to Save Jobs for Working Families



"if he has the desire to do it, it would be possible"

How do you see this happening?

[Edweird]

31. The President would have to swap his admiration for Reagan with his contempt for FDR.

So it isn't going to happen. You like to hold up congress as an excuse. The fact of the matter is that, while congress ultimately passes legislation, it starts at the top and works it's way down. This is why FDR and LBJ are rightly credited for their accomplishments. Congress did not suddenly and inexplicably feel altruistic and pass socially beneficial legislation - the president did what he had to do to make it happen. The presidents were the driving force. Our current president has no desire to see that kind of legislation go forward - he has flatly stated as much. That, and that alone, is the reason nothing will happen.

[ProSense]

37. Can you prove that the President has contempt for FDR?

"So it isn't going to happen. You like to hold up congress as an excuse. The fact of the matter is that, while congress ultimately passes legislation, it starts at the top and works it's way down. This is why FDR and LBJ are rightly credited for their accomplishments. Congress did not suddenly and inexplicably feel altruistic and pass socially beneficial legislation - the president did what he had to do to make it happen. The presidents were the driving force. Our current president has no desire to see that kind of legislation go forward - he has flatly stated as much. That, and that alone, is the reason nothing will happen."

Sixteen Republicans voted for Social Security. Can you show where this President can find 16 Republican votes in this Congress to pass a "socially beneficial legislation"?

No doubt had FDR been around with this Congress in this atmosphere he would have been attacked for his coalition building.

[Edweird]

40. Can you prove you don't beat your kids/pets/significant other?

[ProSense]

41. You made the point. What is it based on? n/t

[Edweird]

42. Republicans voted for the legislation BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT TALKED THEM INTO IT.

Again, it wasn't some spontaneous anomaly. Our current president is, instead, more than happy to pass RW legislation. Your attempt to claim that FDR or LBJ wouldn't have done better is bizarre.

[ProSense]

44. So you think FDR could talk DeMint into voting for social justice?

You seem to believe that today's Republicans care? If you believe that, why are so many people attacking the President for just saying the word "bipartisanship"?

[Edweird]

46. Because he has scorned the left and embraced RW policy.

"Bipartisanship", for him, is merely an excuse or justification to act like Reagan. As far as FDR dealing with DeMint - I can't speak to that particular 'celebrity death match' but there's a reason FDR was essentially president for life and Obama will likely be a single-termer.

[ProSense]

47. That does not address my question.

If you believe that there is a reason for the President to convince Republicans to work with him, why are so many people attacking the President for just saying the word "bipartisanship"?

[Edweird]

48. Still the same answer as the last time you asked me.

[Beetwasher]

55. "if he has the desire to do it, it would be possible" That's It!!! CLAP LOUDER OBAMA!!! CLAP LOUDER!

That's all it takes! Oh, that and the "BULLY PULPIT!!!". And "LEADERSHIP!!!".

[laughingliberal]

25. +1000 nt

[leftstreet]

28. +1

[upi402]

39. Small business, energy sector

"Another hot pyrolysis technology of note: KiOR

One of the hottest companies that has come along subsequent to this profile has been KiOR, a JV of Khosla Ventures and Dutch biofuels pioneer BIOeCON. In August, the Mississippi state legislature approved Governor Haley Barbour’s special session request for a $75 million loan to KiOR for a proposed development of five biofuel plants in the state. Overall, KiOR committed to invest a total of $500 million of its own funds towards its first three projects.

The company combines a proprietary catalyst system with a biomass-to-renewable crude oil conversion technology based on Fluid Catalytic Cracking (FCC), a proven process technology which has been used in the oil refining industry for decades. KiOR is testing the commercial viability of its process at its demonstration-scale facility located near Houston, Texas. The facility is a 400 time scale-up from KiOR’s Pilot Plant and is producing up to 15 barrels of renewable crude per day from woodchips. In July, KiOR announced that it has raised $110 million in its latest round."

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/biotech/2010/11/26/umass-amherst-anellotech-pioneer-conversion-of-bio-oil-to-chemical-intermediates/
But we'd need a rational and responsive government before job growth happens.