The tragedy...is that Obama, after selling his soul to corporations, has been discarded.

[Karmadillo]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/power_and_the_tiny_acts_of_rebellion_20101122/

Power and the Tiny Acts of Rebellion
By Chris Hedges
Novmeber 22, 2010

There is no hope left for achieving significant reform or restoring our democracy through established mechanisms of power. The electoral process has been hijacked by corporations. The judiciary has been corrupted and bought. The press shuts out the most important voices in the country and feeds us the banal and the absurd. Universities prostitute themselves for corporate dollars. Labor unions are marginal and ineffectual forces. The economy is in the hands of corporate swindlers and speculators. And the public, enchanted by electronic hallucinations, remains passive and supine. We have no tools left within the power structure in our fight to halt unchecked corporate pillage.

The liberal class, which Barack Obama represents, was never endowed with much vision or courage, but it did occasionally respond when pressured by popular democratic movements. This was how we got the New Deal, civil rights legislation and the array of consumer legislation pushed through by Ralph Nader and his allies in the Democratic Party. The complete surrendering of power, however, to corporate interests means that those of us who seek nonviolent yet profound change have no one within the power elite we can trust for support. The corporate coup has ossified the structures of power. It has obliterated all checks on corporate malfeasance. It has left us stripped of the tools of mass organization that once nudged the system forward toward justice.

Obama knows where power lies and serves these centers of power. The tragedy—if tragedy is the right word—is that Obama, after selling his soul to corporations, has been discarded. Corporate power doesn’t need brand Obama anymore. They have found new brands in the tea party, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. Obama has been abandoned by those who once bundled contributions for him by the millions of dollars. Obama and the Democratic Party will, I expect, spend the next two years being even more obsequious to corporate power. Obama clearly loves the pomp and privilege of statecraft that much. But I am not sure it will work.

<edit>

It is time to think of resistance in a new way, something that is no longer carried out to reform a system but as an end in itself. African-Americans understood this during the long night of slavery. German opposition leaders understood it under the Nazis. Dissidents in the former Soviet Union knew this during the nightmare of communism. Resistance in these closed systems was local and often solitary. It was done with the understanding that evil must always be defied. The tiny acts of rebellion—day after day, month after month, year after year and decade after decade—exposed to everyone who witnessed them the heartlessness, cruelty and inhumanity of the oppressor. They were acts of truth and beauty. We must take to the street. We must jam as many wrenches into the corporate system as we can. We must not make it easy for them. But we also must no longer live in self-delusion. This is a battle that will outlive us. And if we fight, even with this tragic vision, we will lead lives worth living and keep alive another way of being.

[sabrina 1]

1. We are on our own. I think that's what he is telling us.

The electoral system is definitely not the answer. So what do we do now?

'This is a battle that will outlive us. And if we fight, even with this tragic vision, we will lead lives worth living and keep alive another way of being'.

[camila flor]

3. que cosas

we adore him here. almost like the level we despised your last boss.

[EFerrari]

5. Are you adoring the murders of leftists in Honduras? n/t

[camila flor]

18. I referred to your president - not Guatamala.

After Bush we had not much hope for you. Great change! Sorry for the confusion.

perdon - honduras

[madmax]

41. Welcome to DU

:hi: Si, Se Puede ;)

[EFerrari]

59. The American policy for Latin America hasn't changed an iota

as the coup in Honduras demonstrates. It would have been impossible without the tacit cooperation of the Obama government. And that's a shame.

[truedelphi]

153. Nor has the inability of our government to get anything done in Haiti

Offer much assurance to anyone who is looking at that situation.

Countless billions of dollars have been socked away in bank accounts, little of it getting out to the people. there.

Meanwhile the Haitian government's new decree of "science above all" means that when someone falls ill, having all the symptoms of cholera, they still have to be tested and wait out the results of the test befor e being treated. they often die while waiting it out. (That flies in the face of all other pandemic responses. Once the first twenty or so test cases show a disease is on the rampage, the citizens are treated immediately for that disease.)

[EFerrari]

184. Haiti is being re-enslaved with the tacit approval of the puppets in office there.

It's happening right in front of our faces. :(

[camila flor]

216. maybe we can have a exchange of the presidents

we will love to have mister Obama

and we have one for you

perhaps you will like more our Felipe

[EFerrari]

218. We already paid for him to steal the election

so you could say, he's already "ours" in a sense. :)

[truedelphi]

150. Not everyone is in constant adoration.

A corporate-worshipping politician is not what this nation needs right now. We needed a Statesman, and got ourselves a tool.

President Obama was voted in, in part due to his being smart enough to appeal to those of us wanting a government that looked out for middle class interests. His speeches as he made his way through the state of Wisconsin in 2008 testify to the progressive ideals he pretended to care about.

Since late November 2008,he has not managed to do that. His appointments were of those people that toadied to Wall Street and Monsanto.

He immediately let it be known that the G 20 and G8, the WTO, the IMF and World Bank would continue to be the real Congress over this nation and we citizens. (As a result, we have the "Food Safety Act" about to be passed.)

These agencies are actually unconstitutional. And while many here applauded the ease with which Obama addressed the G 20, the fact remains - no elected official is to meet in secret meetings with delegates from foreign nations. Obama, Hillary Clinton and many others have continually ignored the Constitution on that one. (As well as having us fight endless expensive wars that have nothing to do with protecting us or offering us national security.)

But Obama is actually exactly what the Powers that Be want us to have. The fact that he is African American helps bring about the needed "regime" changes in Africa. And also helped sucker our nation into the ties that bind - his appointment of Geithner and approval of Bernanke helped to aid these two in heisting Main Street's wealth over to Wall Street, eleven trillion bucks and counting. With no stipulations that any of that money has to go back to Main Street.

[laughingliberal]

35. I think we have to look to people like the White Rose Society in WWII Germany for direction...

and look to our neighbors to the south who are finally throwing off the shackles of corporate enslavement.

As things worsen, even small acts of passive resistance will help chip away at them. Any little thing we can produce for ourselves instead of buying. Any small ways we can band together to support each other and stop the bleeding of our limited financial resources into corporate coffers will help. Moving our little accounts out of the big banks and back into community banks will help. For those with a way, leaving will deny the behemoths access to their money. Just as the fascists have worked to 'starve the beast' and leave our government without resources to help the people, the people can begin, a little at a time, to starve the beast of the corporate state.

The struggle will certainly outlive me but surrender is not an option.

[Maat]

119. I agree, L.L. (n/t)

[madmax]

145. Second that ...

Being raised by a Mom who lived through the Depression, being frugal, recycling or just plain do without was a way of life as far as I can remember.

Haven't changed yet. It's ingrained in me and it kills me to see others in my family just flat out WASTE! Time, money, energy. I want to slap each and eveyone of them. :mad:

[sabrina 1]

156. Yes, those are all excellent ideas. Especially not using the big banks

In a way, although it is so hard to have to admit it, I am glad I no longer depend on politicians to solve anything. Disappointment after disappointment doesn't inspire much hope, and always there are excuses. In real life, when someone does nothing but make excuses for not getting things done, they lose their credibility.

I wonder what the excuse will be now when they go after SS? We were, after all, told that Dems couldn't get anything done in the majority because the minority party was so powerful. Well, now we are in the minority, and half the Blue Dogs are gone, will the minority party still have all that power it has had for that past four years?

I blame the apologists mostly. Those who support the party no matter what they do. Politicians when pressured enough will listen. The vote on the Bailouts was an example of that. The people spoke loudly and angrily and Congress responded. But Wall St. was having none of that so they threatened them to vote their way.

[Bennyboy]

74. "Everyone I know is in the fight of their lives:

so true. Hey Woody Guthrie where are ya....

[molly77]

124. For starters, what about democrats splitting off from the DLC?

The clinton wing of the democratic party does not represent our interests any more than republicans.

[AnArmyVeteran]

159. Can we SHAME Obama into action?

Millions of people worked for over a year to elect Obama, but now he's forgotten us. We've had town halls, elections and have kept constant pressure on the Obama administration, only to be ignored. 

All of the traditional democratic methods to reach Obama have failed. We've been forced to accept one compromise after another for the past 22 months and when we dared to protest we were called lunatics, fucking retards or worse. It's obvious loyalty only goes in one direction between the Obama administration and us. And that direction has been all one sided, 'UP'. Obama has demonstrated virtually zero loyalty to those who elected him and we need to send him a message. 

I am tired of having a leader who constantly caves to the republicans and the ultra-corrupt corporate leaders. Obama is still urging compromise suggesting he will extend the tax cuts for the extremely rich. That will be the final straw for me. And I'm sure it will be the final straw for millions of other Americans who are feeling betrayed. 

But what can we do to make Obama act on OUR behalf? Traditional methods have all failed. Obama seems unwilling or too timid to represent the people who put him in office. One suggestion I thought of was shaming him into action. What if 50 million people sent him pictures of male genitalia, specifically pictures showing a pair of balls and telling him we demand that he begin to act like he has a spine, or more bluntly, a pair of balls.  

The past two years have been two of the most squandered times in American history. Instead of fighting for the middle class, Obama has been serving the most powerful and turning his back to us. Had Obama began his presidency coming out swinging against all the injustice in this country he could have been a hero by now. Even a lot of tea partiers might have supported him if he went aggressively after the banks that almost destroyed our country. But it's business as usual on Wall Street and financial criminals are laughing at us, the system and at President Obama. Even now, Obama is going to meet with the biggest financial mobsters in the history of the world and Obama will be presenting them an olive branch when he should be giving them subpoenas. 

There are NO excuses for cowardice. If someone wants to be president they better have the qualities needed to perform the damned job. And one of the most important qualities is courage. Unfortunately, I have seen virtually zero signs President Obama has any courage. 

(People can attack me for saying the above, but what do you think is holding Obama back from doing what he promised to do and doing what is right?)

[sabrina 1]

190. Well, I agree with everything you said, so not attacks from me.

I doubt he can be shamed into acting on our behalf. It's clear where his loyalties are. Look around this site and see how Democrats are suddenly no longer for protecting our Constitutional Rights. For six years the issue of the Naked Scanners and intrusive 'pat-downs' was a huge issue for Democrats. They were successfully stopped from putting them into Airports in this country.

But now, there are articles beginning to appear on leftwing sites attempting to stop the outrage by turning this into a partisan issue. All of a sudden, Democrats no longer care about an issue they cared so much about when a Republican was doing it.

I don't know the answer. We are at an impasse, having as you said, worked so hard to give Democrats the power to restore the rule of law and our Constitutional rights in this country. Clearly it has not worked.

Obama is a good friend of the CEO of Rapiscan. That of course would not have anything to do with his support for those grotesque violations of our Constitutional rights, I am sure.

The only thing I can think of is not to fall for the attempts to silence people on these issues. But to keep speaking out against these abuses. I for one will not be silenced. I have no interest in enriching the already obscenely wealthy Michael Chertoff.

[ProSense]

2. This is hilarious. Evidently it's not just President Obama who sold his soul, but

also Sanders, Kucinich, Health Care for America Now, Families USA, MoveOn and the entire Democratic Party

“There was nobody in the House or the Senate who held fast on universal health care,” she lamented. “Sen. (Bernie) Sanders from Vermont introduced a single-payer bill, S 703. He introduced an amendment that would have substituted S 703 for what the Senate was putting together. We had to push pretty hard to get that to the Senate floor, but in the end he was forced by the leadership to withdraw it. He was our strongest person. In the House we saw Chairman John Conyers, who is the lead sponsor for the House single-payer bill, give up pushing for single-payer very early in the process in 2009. Dennis Kucinich pushed to get an amendment that would help give states the ability to pass single-payer. He was not successful in getting that kept in the final House bill. He held out for the longest, but in the end he caved.”

“You can’t effect change from the inside,” she has concluded. “We have a huge imbalance of power. Until we have a shift in power we won’t get effective change in any area, whether financial, climate, you name it. With the wealth inequalities, with the road we are headed down, we face serious problems. Those who work and advocate for social and economic justice have to now join together. We have to be independent of political parties and the major funders. The revolution will not be funded. This is very true.”

“Those who are working for effective change are not going to get foundation dollars,” she stated. “Once a foundation or a wealthy individual agrees to give money they control how that money is used. You have to report to them how you spend that money. They control what you can and cannot do. Robert Wood Johnson , for example, funds many public health departments. They fund groups that advocate for health care reform, but those groups are not allowed to pursue or talk about single-payer. Robert Wood Johnson only supports work that is done to create what they call public/private partnership. And we know this is totally ineffective. We tried this before. It is allowing private insurers to exist but developing programs to fill the gaps. Robert Wood Johnson actually works against a single-payer health care system. The Health Care for America Now coalition was another example. It only supported what the Democrats supported. There are a lot of activist groups controlled by the Democratic Party, including Families USA and MoveOn. MoveOn is a very good example. If you look at polls of Democrats on single-payer, about 80 percent support it. But at MoveOn meetings, which is made up mostly of Democrats, when people raised the idea of working for single-payer they were told by MoveOn leaders that the organization was not doing that. And this took place while the Democrats were busy selling out women’s rights, immigrant rights to health care and abandoning the public option. Yet all these groups continued to work for the bill. They argued, in the end, that the health care bill had to be supported because it was not really about health care. It was about the viability of President Obama and the Democratic Party. This is why, in the end, we had to pass it.”

Drivel from people who can't deal with reality.

[JamesA1102]

4. Well said Pro Sense

The OP is total BS.

[ProSense]

6. All this crap

is being pushed by the people who align or empathize with the Green Party and those who believe Nader represents all that is pure and good.

[JamesA1102]

30. Despite the fact that he helped Bush steal the election in 2000 nt

[Chef Eric]

Yes! What nerve Nader had to run for President.

[JamesA1102]

81. And allowing the GOP to fund his campaign

then using that money to tell lies about Al Gore. What a guy!

[bread_and_roses]

181. Which is worse - allowing GOP to fund your campaign, or allowing Goldman Sachs to fund it?

Whether or not I happen to think taking $$ from the GOP was either ethical or smart, I find it hilarious that people bring this up against Nader without a word, at least usually, about the Ds accepting major campaign contribution from the Banksters, the Insurance Vampires, the rapacious Off-Shorers of Jobs While Collecting Tax Breaks Corps, etc. etc. etc.

As if the Dems were so pure! ROFL

[Recursion]

191. The sad thing is you probably mean that question seriously.

Sigh

[bread_and_roses]

208. Of course I mean it seriously. It's a serious question.

If you have any doubts as to its seriousness, I refer you to the health "reform" bill, the financial "reform" bill, Mountaintop mining, the BP spill, the Cat-Food Commission, etc. etc. etc.

[JamesA1102]

212. False equivelency

Just another way to Nader a free pass for accepting GOP money and then using that money to run ads that lied about Al Gore.

[bread_and_roses]

213. It's not even really about Nader. It's about money

and who owns who. If you don't get that, there's not much point. You can follow the money and get somewhere, or spin your wheels pretending that it's the letter after the name that matters.

[JamesA1102]

215. No it's about Nader and how he helped Bush steal the presidency. nt

[AllyCat]

79. Or those that realize we have been sold up the river.

Not much has changed PS. Not much has changed. Things that I never dreamed I would hear from a DEMOCRAT have been pushed forward (appealing DADT, refusing even a discussion of a PO, escalating the war in Afgahnistan, refusing to jump start jobs in this country, and coddling a commission that advises cuts in what little safety net we have left).

If that makes me a sympathizer with the Green Party, then I should look into them. Maybe it's time for some real Democrats to come to power, not these corpoDems that only serve their $$$ masters, not the people.

[JamesA1102]

80. Or those who just rather play victim and complain

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

154. Well said ~ n/t

[Phlem]

188. So those who have been victims and want retribution

don't get an option?

MK..

[JamesA1102]

211. No if they are real victims

but most on DU are not real victims.

[Maat]

122. Check the Greens out - for information purposes only, of course.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

109. Sadly, it was Obama who made back room deals with private health care CEO's ... NOT Nader and

NOT the Greens --

You somehow seem to have the idea that if you can try to muddy Nader and/or the Green Party

that will make Obama whole again -- it won't.

[defendandprotect]

110. dupe

[Maat]

121. Yep.

************quote***********
All this crap

is being pushed by the people who align or empathize with the Green Party and those who believe Nader represents all that is pure and good.
*********endquote***********

:hi:

[frylock]

132. nader is all that is pure and good?

you worship at the altar of obama ffs.

[JDPriestly]

147. No. I was never in the Green Party.

I'm just an old-fashioned FDR Democrat.

Obama is not. Clinton pretended to be but was not.

I'm the Democrat. The DLC robbed me of my party.

[Chan790]

199. I'm fairly certain that's the first time I've ever been accused of being a Green Party member.

I'm not, mind you, a Green Party member.

No, my story is simpler...I'm not beholden to serving this or any party, only my own ideals, values and causes. Ironically, those mesh perfectly with traditional Democratic ideals, values and causes. I don't root for laundry; I don't care whether Barack Obama thinks he's a Democrat or runs under a big ole' Democratic banner, as long as he demonstrably is divorced from traditional Democratic ideals, values and causes; I will work for change, with-or-without him.

I believe what it means to be a Democrat is unerring and not subject to compromise, pragmatism or debate. Traditional Democratic ideals, values and causes are the true-and-correct ideals, values and causes; I do not support moral or philosophical relativism, I believe in Truth worth defending not only from our enemies but the weak-of-spirit and craven in our midst. If they are what passes for Democrats these-days, then I will no longer be a Democrat, just someone who actually supports traditional Democratic ideals, values and causes whereas they do not.

[jaxx]

7. I'd give you a rec if I could ProSense.

[Jakes Progress]

136. One rec for sticking your head in the ground.

Check.

[Jakes Progress]

137. One rec for sticking your head in the ground.

Check.

[immoderate]

8. Anything progressive gets defeated.

If Obama doesn't get it (un)done he's covered by some other interest. Just always seems to work that way. Name one thing that favored the middle class over the plutocrats. Neither can I.

--imm

[bigtree]

15. admit it

. . . you haven't really looked for any examples.

I suspect that, if you find one, you'll never be satisfied enough. That should be seen as more of a reflection of you, than of this President. I don't see how you can credibly lay all of the resistance to the progressive agenda at the President's feet; or credibly expect this two-year presidency to have conquered and subverted the lopsided distribution of American income and wealth which has existed and persisted for centuries.

[immoderate]

31. Oh, but I have...

Now, I haven't scrutinized everything that has come out of the White House, somebody pointed out credit card reforms. So maybe that cuts down the rate at which consumers can be plucked. Nevertheless the system still transfers money upward, as did TARP, HCR, NCLB, GM (with some union busting.)

The lop-sided distribution of wealth is described by an instrument know as the Gini Index.

Gini indices for the United States at various times, according to the US Census Bureau:<4><5><6>

* 1929: 45.0 (estimated)
* 1947: 37.6 (estimated)
* 1967: 39.7 (first year reported)
* 1968: 38.6 (lowest index reported)
* 1970: 39.4
* 1980: 40.3
* 1990: 42.8
* 2000: 46.2 <7>
* 2005: 46.9
* 2006: 47.0 (highest index reported)
* 2007: 46.3
* 2008: 46.69
* 2009: 46.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Notice what happens when Gini goes into the 40's. The EU has a 31.
The number continues to go up. Even in 2009. Almost everything that is done, certainly every major move, even if it seems to benefit the middle class, actually moves money up the scale.

The tax cut, if it passes, might be the exception. In any case, why did we have to go to the lame duck to see any progress? Have you seen the reports on record corporate profits? Who do you think gets those profits while prices rise and wages falter?

--imm

[femrap]

89. Good info....

thanks. Just wait until the Cat Food Commission proposals go into effect. WASF.

Chris Hedges has been all over the world and seen many a war. He knows what he is talking about.

If people want to stay in Denial, so be it. We are witnessing The Decline of the American Empire. Face it.

But I believe Mother Nature will have the final say. One cannot live on money alone....you can't eat it.

[sendero]

42. We can credibly expect him to do..

... ONE GOOD SUBSTANTIAL THING, and he has not done that. Period. Spin it till you are blue, that is the FACT.

[Recursion]

65. 6 years ago I accused conservatives of leaving the reality-based community

And now it seems part of the left has followed them, unfortunately.

I would have said "you can't be serious" a few weeks ago, but I think you actually are. And that's just sad.

[sendero]

72. FAIL..

.. on war, FAIL on HCR, FAIL on fin reform. Fail on everything that matters and throw idiots a crumb or two and they are satisfied. You are the one who has lost touch with reality.

[Recursion]

75. I'll grant fail on Gitmo and LGBT rights easily

Which are two things you didn't seem to mention. On the three you mentioned, he's done more than I thought he would be able to and I'm pretty impressed.

I'm calling myself "reality-based" in that I acknowledge that he has to actually get legislation passed in the US Congress.

[sendero]

76. Many presidents..

... have gotten more accomplished with less congressional resource. He didn't fix anything because HE DOESN'T WANT TO, HE WANTS TO KISS THE ASSES OF THE RIGHT WING.

[Recursion]

78. Name one?

W got tax cuts through reconciliation, and lied his way into a war when the populace was still shaken from terrorist attacks. The rest of his agenda was either triangulating (co-opting Democratic issues and support like NCLB or Medicare Part D) or failed miserably (education reform).

Clinton, with a larger majority, just got FMLA and the Assault Weapons Ban -- and both of those had some Republican support.

What President were you thinking of?

[sabrina 1]

155. If you can't get legislation passed in Congress when your party

is in the majority, then you are not trying very hard. The Republicans got more in the minority than we did in the majority, at least they stopped more, even according to you. Will Dems in the minority now be able to stop the majority? And if they can't, what does that do the excuse that Obama couldn't get anything done because the Republicans wouldn't let him?

Even Nancy Pelosi has admitted that they cast 'unpopular votes' on behalf of the WH. So clearly when he wanted to he was able to twist arms. I am sick of these excuses. What does it take to get things done? In 2006 we were told all we needed was to take the House. Then were told that wasn't enough, we needed to have a majority in Congress AND the WH. So we did that. All we hear still are excuses. So now what?

[Recursion]

210. Pelosi runs the House, which pretty much did what Obama asked it to

Find me a similar statement about the Senate, and you would have a point.

[liberation]

131. You mean those conservatives who ignored reality to justify the actions of the previous president

... just like you guys are doing to justify the actions of the current one.

As I have said before, you guys quack, walk, and look like the same 25%ers who left the "reality-based" community to follow Bush right or wrong. Down to the same passive aggressive snark, your sense of entitlement, and the runaway projection.

The more things "change"... indeed.

LOL

[ProSense]

17. " Name one thing that favored the middle class over the plutocrats. Neither can I."

BIGGEST. TAX CUT. EVER...:

Chris Hayes had a similar observation.

On the politics side of the ledger, Ben Smith notes Obama's emphasis on the tax cuts in the bill. I'm not necessarily a fan, though politically it's true that every single Republican member of congress can now be accused of "Voting against the biggest tax cut in history" come next election." Clearly, this hasn't escaped the White House's notice.

The ARRA:

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, abbreviated ARRA (Pub.L. 111-5), is an economic stimulus package enacted by the 111th United States Congress in February 2009. The Act of Congress was based largely on proposals made by President Barack Obama and was intended to provide a stimulus to the U.S. economy in the wake of the economic downturn. The measures are nominally worth $787 billion. The Act includes federal tax cuts, expansion of unemployment benefits and other social welfare provisions, and domestic spending in education, health care, and infrastructure, including the energy sector. The Act also includes numerous non-economic recovery related items that were either part of longer-term plans (e.g. a study of the effectiveness of medical treatments) or desired by Congress (e.g. a limitation on executive compensation in federally aided banks added by Senator Dodd and Rep. Frank). The government action is much larger than the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, which consisted primarily of tax rebate checks.

Add to that the home buyers credit, cash for clunkers and student financial aid.

More

[immoderate]

32. Student loan thing was good.

ARRA was not progressive, sorry. Clunkers and Home Buyers were stimulative, but where did the profits go?

For the rest, see post #31, above.

--imm

[Recursion]

64. ARRA kept a lot of teachers and firefighters employed

It took the tax cuts to get the thing passed, and pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Clunkers and Home Buyers were stimulative, but where did the profits go?

Well, the profits from Clunkers went into a lot of people's very-depressed 401(k)'s and pension funds, not to mention keeping a lot of American Toyota employees employed. The home buyer "profits" went to, not surprisingly, people who wanted to sell their house. Are you opposed to profit in the abstract or something?

[immoderate]

105. Look at the larger picture.

All of those things, as you say, can benefit the middle class, but it's all structured so that the real beneficiaries are rich people who get money for sitting on their ass, and then don't get taxed for it.

Why are there 401(k)'s and private pension funds and health insurance companies? How about, to keep the money stream flowing toward the plutocracy? The houses and cars, that's trickle down in action. More loans, with incentives provided by a regressively taxed popolation. Maybe you can't blame Obama for his "stooginess" because what happened to JFK, RFK, MLK, and Malcolm X sends a strong message, even down through time. Like I say, you have to look at the larger picture.

I am rooting for the tax bill, the implications are so obvious. I could even make a case that this must be done to rescue capitalism, like the Wall Street and Detroit bail-outs. When the Gini Index, which I described above, goes above 45, you are in trouble. You can't bleed your subjects too fast because they die, you see.

Anyway, there is a larger pattern here. Over the last 30 or so years, power has shifted to a small oligarchy, who pulls all the strings. Every president works for their interests. Can you name an exception?

Forget Democrats and Republicans. That is the "bread and circuses" that keeps us occupied. We root and cheer for our teams, we fight the other side. It doesn't matter that we are rational, and they are crazy.

The house takes their cut off the top.

--imm

[JDPriestly]

149. The ARRA was a good idea, but Obama, surrounded by plutocrats,

was too timid to stimulate our economy to the extent it needed to be stimulated. Therefore, the money may have been wasted. We shall see.

The student loan change is great, but the Republicans will no doubt change the system back if and when they get back in power.

The tax cuts were a terrible mistake.

We need stimulus, but we need it to be focused on creating jobs in the US. Tax cuts just create jobs overseas. We don't need that.

[Recursion]

162. OK, you get a stimulus through Congress without tax cuts

Let's get in the Wayback machine and go back to early 2009. You get a stimulus through Congress. Go for it. How much would it contain in tax cuts?

[femrap]

92. Did you know that all of those

Clunkers had to be SHREDDED????? These old/older cars didn't have all the 'chips' in them and could actually be driven and not affected by an electronic pulse.

All of those used cars which people could actually fix themselves are gone. I'm seriously thinking of finding an old car with NO chips whatsoever.

My new car was immobilized....the tow truck dude said, 'Oh yeah, sometimes a fire/police frequency will affect the chips and I get the business of hauling you back to the dealership.'

And what so great about having a mortgage anyway???? Just an albatross around one's neck keeping people tied to their Corporate Boss...always having to obey because they now have this mortgage to pay...plus property taxes, plus upkeep, plus a yard to maintain....I never bought into this crap.

[inna]

104. wow, I always learn something new on DU. Had no idea about the "chips".

[femrap]

118. Electronics can be your friend one

day....and your worst enemy the next.

[howmad1]

129. Some of the best kept secrets, ever!

[Bette Noir]

87. The new laws governing credit cards save me money and hassle every month.

And Obama, with the help of congressional Dems, saved the American auto industry.

Oops, that's two things. You only asked for one.

My personal favorite of Mr. President's accomplishments was canceling Bush's last-second oil leases in Utah, within sight of a couple of my favorite national parks.

Not that Obama's perfect, but he's still the best we have in the White House, and the best we've had there in memory. Sorry, but, as much as I love Bernie Sanders, he's not President, and is not likely to become President.

[femrap]

95. I believe the auto industry

is now a two-tiered wage system....the new folks grovel for $12/hour. I guess a single person can live comfortably on that. I don't know about a family.

One thing you're going to see next year: all of these single mothers out there (49% of all babies born today are to single mothers) are going to find their safety nets GONE. It's been a nice set up by TPTB...mothers will soon have the rug pulled out from them. Just watch.

TPTB hate poor and working women. They put up with the rich ones who behave.

[Recursion]

163. Yeah, the era of the one-earner family is over. Sorry.

But $12 an hour for essentially unskilled labor is nothing to sneeze at.

One thing you're going to see next year: all of these single mothers out there (49% of all babies born today are to single mothers) are going to find their safety nets GONE. It's been a nice set up by TPTB...mothers will soon have the rug pulled out from them. Just watch.

There are no Powers That Be. There are a bunch of powerful people and less-powerful people scrambling for what's going to be left of the US economy once the strong-dollar-fueled boom gasps its last breath.

We mistook a generational accident for a birthright.

[femrap]

167. How's the Heritage Foundation treating ya? nt

Are they paying you $14/hour.

Wow...do you live in Dumfukistan? Skilled labor is working for $12/hour.

Sorry. I don't do Willful Ignorance at DU...too much of it IRL. I love that Ignore Button.

[Recursion]

170. "nt" means there is no text, incidentally

Wow...do you live in Dumfukistan? Skilled labor is working for $12/hour.

No, I live in a country where we are no longer sucking as much money from the rest of the world, so we can't afford the 1950's anachronism of having families in which just one parent works. Sorry.

[whathappened]

178. stocks

i heard the other day when the gm stock was finally back in the exchange the saudi'sandchina was already lined up to buy up millions of dollars worth , we are slowly loseing our buinesses to the out side world and feeding our jobs to them fast

[immoderate]

127. Who benefits most from saving the auto industry?

The owners, the stockholders. They would have been wiped out. Now they collect profits. Did it save jobs? Yeah, shit jobs. I don't call bailing out a private industry, and engineering labor deals that benefit capital progressive.

The credit card industry was going quite berserk. You can't kill the golden goose, though, if you let them, they will try. The whole credit based economy goes on. It's purpose is still to funnel money to the ruling class.

Isn't it nice though that they toss us some crumbs? That's 'cause they got empathy. :sarcasm:

Obama is the best we've got. That doesn't mean he hasn't sold out. Bernie Sanders would not be able to do much better. If he tries too hard, they will kill him.

--imm

[Recursion]

164. WHO CARES?

If he tries too hard, they will kill him.

:eyes:

Bernie Sander couldn't do any better (which is why he voted for PPACA too) because unlike 3/4 of this board, apparently, he can count to 60.

[amborin]

217. not only that,, but non-UAW G.M. auto plants, in Michigan

[Bragi]

9. Do you have an argument you want to make?

I'm not siding with the author or with you, but I would like to point out that you offer a conclusion without any argument. Citing a lengthy passage from the article you apparently want to refute doesn't in itself constitute an argument.

[ProSense]

10. Yes

I made the point here

"I'm not siding with the author or with you, but I would like to point out that you offer a conclusion without any argument."

If you don't understand the point, read it until you do.

[Bragi]

45. Please don't take this the wrong way, but...

I don't think that an assertion -- such as the one at the top of your posting -- followed by a lengthy excerpt from the article in question, followed by an unproven assertion/conclusion -- that article is "Drivel from people who can't deal with reality. -- constitutes an argument.

Clearly, what you were saying was not necessarily incorrect -- the author was criticizing Obama and other Democrats in the article, as you point out -- but this observation in itself does not constitute evidence of "drivel".

That's my point, and please don't take it too personally or even too seriously.

I notice a lot of people here often just put forward assertions or lengthy excerpts from articles, as though these in themselves constitute arguments that make a case.

Anyway, I'm sure you could research my postings here and find similar examples. I just wanted to point this out to you. (Maybe there's a role for me as an imperfect but vigilant DU Rhetoric Critic.)

[ProSense]

82. It's drivel

All it takes is criticism of the administration for anything to be considered wisdom.

The liberal class, which Barack Obama represents, was never endowed with much vision or courage, but it did occasionally respond when pressured by popular democratic movements. This was how we got the New Deal, civil rights legislation and the array of consumer legislation pushed through by Ralph Nader and his allies in the Democratic Party. The complete surrendering of power, however, to corporate interests means that those of us who seek nonviolent yet profound change have no one within the power elite we can trust for support. The corporate coup has ossified the structures of power. It has obliterated all checks on corporate malfeasance. It has left us stripped of the tools of mass organization that once nudged the system forward toward justice.

Obama knows where power lies and serves these centers of power. The tragedy—if tragedy is the right word—is that Obama, after selling his soul to corporations, has been discarded. Corporate power doesn’t need brand Obama anymore. They have found new brands in the tea party, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. Obama has been abandoned by those who once bundled contributions for him by the millions of dollars. Obama and the Democratic Party will, I expect, spend the next two years being even more obsequious to corporate power. Obama clearly loves the pomp and privilege of statecraft that much. But I am not sure it will work.

The people who back the teabaggers, never "once bundled contributions" for the President --- not the Koch Brothers, not Dick Armey, not Karl Rove.

This is victimhood to hype Ralph Nader disguised as protest.

"This was how we got the New Deal, civil rights legislation and the array of consumer legislation pushed through by Ralph Nader and his allies in the Democratic Party."

What utter bullshit. Ralph Nader is a tool, and whenever he aligns himself with the right, his supporters ignore that it happens.

Someone asked yesterday: "Can anyone make the argument that Obama has done more for the country than Nader?"

And I responded: yes, yes and yes.

Here's another yes.

Maybe Nader and his supporters would get somewhere if he could actually build a movement without trying to scapegoat Democrats and other progressives.

[Bragi]

84. Now that is an argument. Thanks! /nt

[JDPriestly]

151. How old are you ProSense?

Because I remember the Nader days very differently than you do. Nader took on the corporations and brought to light the fact that the auto industry was calculating the cost of safety measures. It knew how many lives would be lost if it did not include a safety measure in the car, but refused to put it in anyway -- in order to make more money.

Of course, that is what BP did with the Maconda. That is what corporations do all the time.

We have inhuman entities running amok in our human society. Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, the whole slew of Republicans and DLCers including Obama do the bidding of the inhumans. And we humans suffer the consequences.

Who is in charge here? The inhuman corporations or us humans? We think we created the corporations, but they are completely out of our control at this point.

It is as though we live in a science fiction world. If you want to accept that reality, you may. But I have seen the cynicism of the corporations toward our humble human forms and our political system from the inside out, and I am here to tell you that the OP is correct.

[Recursion]

165. This boggles my mind

Of course, that is what BP did with the Maconda. That is what corporations do all the time.

And that is what Medicare does when they determine what care they can afford to pay for. That is what everyone with finite resources has to do, and that's all of us.

Who is in charge here? The inhuman corporations or us humans?

Neither. Nobody is "in charge". That's why there is a political process. Corporations are so powerful because they're the single strongest engines of economic development. Most of us in this country are employed by them.

If you want to accept that reality, you may.

Poor people today are richer than rich people 100 years ago. There's a reason for that, and it's corporate greed.

[JDPriestly]

201. Recursion, corporations are the single strongest engine of war and

destruction. Corporations do good and do bad, but they are not people. They are not born in the suffering of a woman's flesh. They do not cry when their diapers are wet. They have no souls, no real physical needs, no passion, no compassion. They are loveless and lifeless. When managed by humans who are good and kind and loving, corporations can do good things.

The problem is, and if you have ever worked for a large corporation, you should know this, corporations can and often do perpetrate crimes and do horrible things.

And yes, the corporations are very much in charge. If you don't realize that, you are just not watching.

The minute you turn on the television or open a newspaper or a magazine or even most websites, your sense are filled with corporate propaganda, ads and information all written and paid for by the corporations.

Now, as I said if good people use the corporate structure for positive ends, then that can be positive. But, increasingly, and especially since this last Wall Street economic crisis, a lot of smaller, good corporations have lost the fight and been destroyed. We are mostly left with the most awful, horrible bunch you have ever seen.

Wall Street is just full of them. The mortgage companies are prime examples of completely immoral, lawless corporations. And Mozilla paid a fine, a fine that did not cover the horrific damages that his company caused, a fine that left him quite wealthy. He hid behind the corporate veil as do so many men and women who range from the utterly foolish to the utterly irresponsible to the utterly sociopathic.

BP should have paid the extra money and safeguarded the environment. The repercussions from their greed, their decision to go ahead with a well that was in trouble, will be felt for many, many years in the Gulf area. The effects on the health of the people in that region will not become clear for a long time. Does BP care? No. It can't care. It isn't human. It is an inhuman thing. I'm waiting for the indictments of the people at BP who so recklessly managed that well.

If you or I drove as recklessly as they handled that well, we would be serving time in prison.

Have you ever visited your local criminal court? Try going one morning and watch how the poor are called up for petty crimes. Look at the disappointment and disillusionment on their faces -- for shoplifting a $20 shirt or writing a bad check for $50. And then ask yourself where are the people who torture, who kill for no reason, who ruin the environment, who steal from shareholders and who lie to prospective homebuyers. You won't see them anywhere. Meanwhile, some mom who tried, unsuccessfully, to leave a store with a pair of sneakers for her six-year old stands before the judge.

That is why I do not like corporations. Because, by hiding behind a corporate form, criminals avoid having to answer for their enormous crimes while little folks who commit much smaller crimes rot in our jails and prisons and clean our highways. That is the ultimate corruption.

[Mimosa]

224. Without Ralp Nader there'd be no Consumer Protection ot Transportation Safety agency

I remember well, JD.

[sabrina 1]

12. Lol, Bob Herbert won't be too concerned about your opinion I'm sure.

Moveon sold out years ago, right after the 2004 election.

Moveon is on the inside and will do nothing that might cause them to lose access and funding. They sold out long ago.

Herbert is dead right about everything, and it's not that anyone needed him to tell them. The cycle was completed when Dems won in 2008. For eight years we foolishly thought that would change everything, or at least begin to. What we've learned is that there is just too much money going to both parties for them to be concerned about ordinary Americans.

Herbert tells the truth and that makes him an enemy DC insiders. I guess he doesn't care about invites to cocktail parties.

[ProSense]

13. Speaking of

Bob Herbert

[defendandprotect]

88. Stimulus, as economists told Obama, was only 1/4 of what was needed...and is fading...1 million jobs

are predicted to be lost unless there is a new stimulus --

additionally, the stimulus money was funneled through corporations giving

them billions again --

We need the government to directly create jobs -- not more corporate pay-offs.

[Recursion]

168. OK, pass a bigger stimulus

Seriously.

Tell me how to get a bigger stimulus through Congress than he got.

Go for it. I'm all ears.

"Fight" and "spine" are not serious answers.

[femrap]

96. I told many of the

'Hopeful' that Obama would break their hearts. They hated me then and somehow hate me even more now for being correct in my assessment.

Herbert can come to my house for a cocktail...anytime! You, too!

[sabrina 1]

157. Well, I was supporter, but not totally blind. There were things

that bothered me such as his admiration for Reagan. His embrace of anti-gay pastors etc. His vote on the FISA bill. But, we had just come out of eight years of Bush, and many of us were willing to overlook what seemed minor by comparison. And there wasn't much choice.

[femrap]

172. Oh....I voted for the guy.

That's the problem....there's no choice. I'd like to see at least 4 parties....we have 3 now (baggers). Maybe the progressives should start 'The Thinking Party.' But that's probably too elitist. Maybe 'The Solution Party.'

I don't know....Corporations have taken over and probably the only thing to save us will be Mother Nature when she finally says, 'Enough.'

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

20. Wishful thinking again?

"What I'm personally looking forward to is how you're going to deal with it when Obama signs Social Security cuts into law."

How are you going to handle being wrong?

[MadHound]

21. No, actually I'll respond with my vote.

That's how one registers one's opinion of a politicians actions. Not with blind loyalty to them while they are continuing to screw you.

[ProSense]

25. Oh brother

"That's how one registers one's opinion of a politicians actions. Not with blind loyalty to them while they are continuing to screw you. "

I vote. No blind loyalty. Me courageous progressive. You follower.

Give me a friggin break.

[MadHound]

26. Hey, if the foo shits. . .

:shrug:

What I'm truly wondering is if you will finally wake up when hit over the head with an anvil. Will you?

[ProSense]

27. "What I'm truly wondering is if you will finally wake up when hit over the head with an anvil. "

Have you ever given any thought to notion that you might be the one sleepwalking?

The RW is waiting for the left to wake up, and the left (including me) believes they're delusional.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

29. Did you really expect an answer?

Seriously, people seem to ask the most bizarre questions and then wonder why they get a response they don't like.

[BzaDem]

38. I think the anvil will fall, but not on the person you think it will.

After you use your vote to enable Palin's presidency, eventually you will realize the consequences of your actions (just as Nader's supporters did after 2000). The only question is when -- not if. Obama will be fine if he loses (and probably make much more money than he's making now). It is you who will suffer (until you capitulate to reality). And if you think policies are bad now, that just means the anvil dropping will be that much more of a wake-up call.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Recursion]

55. And the charges of being paid come out

Really? You can't come up with anything better than that? You can't accept the fact that there are people who are somewhat left of center and that we honestly think this way, it's not because someone is bribing us to?

[Catshrink]

63. Exactly.

And some wonder why people vote for the likes of Palin, *, etc. Sadly, they're on the D side also.

[JDPriestly]

152. ProSense, will you promise to stop defending Obama if he

does sign a bill that includes cuts to Social Security and Medicare services?

Because if he refuses to sign such a bill, I will think much more highly of him. That will take a tiny bit of backbone, although refusing to cut Social Security or Medicare is a no-brainer.

[Recursion]

161. What is this "backbone" BS people are talking about?

I thought it was bracing rhetoric for a while, but I'm starting to think you're serious. Do you really think the issue is that Obama and Reid aren't "tough" enough, rather than that they can count to 60?

[JDPriestly]

202. The president has the power to veto a bill.

If Congress wants to override his veto they can. But if he vetoes a bill that would cut Social Security or Medicare, he will have at least shown the American people what side he is on.

Reagan ran up an enormous deficit -- way beyond any deficit that had ever been run up by any prior president.

George W. Bush ran up an even more enormous deficit by fighting two wars without raising taxes. Fighting wars is expensive, wastefully expensive. That is why a government must either raise taxes or borrow money to wage war.

George W. Bush borrowed.

Obama is now being told he can't continue to borrow to fight Bush's wars.

I would like to see Obama just say no to Congress. Congress must end the tax cuts for the rich and close a lot of bases overseas. That is the only way to cut the deficit without further hurting our national economy.

Cuts to Social Security and Medicare will further cut our GDP. That will make the ration of debt to GDP either worse or, if we are lucky, the same.

We have to stop wasting our money on wars and military engagements overseas and start investing in our economy here. That is the only way to reduce our deficit.

[donheld]

183. Bet you never get a response to that one.

[ProSense]

185. Guess what?

You're right.

Pat yourself on the back.

[Marr]

214. That ought to render anything else you post on this subject meaningless.

You're just advertising a product. You claim he'd never make cuts to Social Security now, and tell everyone they shouldn't worry their little heads about it because it's a ludicrous idea. But if he does, you'll support it.

[Arkana]

24. And when that doesn't happen will you acknowledge you were wrong?

Of course not. What am I saying? You'll find another reason to irrationally hate him.

[Recursion]

57. The Warren nomination was when the anti-reality crowd lost me

OP after OP after OP demanding Obama nominate her. He nominates her. Crickets except for a few people claiming the nomination was procedurally flawed.

[femrap]

99. Having a position

is one thing....let's see if she is actually given the POWER to fulfill that position.

I trust her and hope that TPTB don't intimidate her integrity. You must realize that these all-powerful people play for keeps.

As one of them said on Charlie Rose, car accidents happen all the time.

[Arkana]

23. Wish I could recommend this post.

[grahamhgreen]

70. Yes, in the interest of not blowing up his Presidency, these people reluctantly voted for HCR.

That said, the guy could have had a million of us in DC demanding Medicare for All if he had only asked.

[Recursion]

77. Did you not get the OFA emails?

I sure did, during the health care debate. Why didn't you go to DC and demand Medicare for All like they asked you to?

Oh, right, you were too busy blaming Obama for the Senate's rules of debate.

in the interest of not blowing up his Presidency, these people reluctantly voted for HCR.

In the interest of greatly expanding access to health care, both through insurance and through greatly expanded Federally Qualified Health Clinics (another part of the legislation its detractors stubbornly ignore), these people voted for the best bill they could get through the Senate.

[grahamhgreen]

221. Obama has the bully pulpit, refusing to use it for the people, as if he were a Trojan Donkey. nt

[BlueGirlRedState]

83. I wish we could "like" sub threads

I'd like your post, ProSense.

[The Hitman]

85. Definite BS

It's this kind of shit that makes me, at times, question why I read this web site.

[defendandprotect]

107. We all understand why Sanders, Kucinich and Schultz finally at the very last ....

threw in their vote for the "deform" to support Obama --

We all know it was meaningless and that they fought against it to the very last.

These people didn't "sell their souls" -- Obama unfortunately did sell his a very long time ago.

[JDPriestly]

148. Pro Sense

The reality you speak of was created by the corporations. It was not created by the people of the United States.

We reject the reality created by the corporations. They created it only for themselves, not for the majority of the people in the United States.

I think the entire concept of the corporation should be rethought. It does not work to have entities in society that have "limited liability," that take limited responsibility for their actions and that are so difficult to haul into court and try on criminal charges when they commit manslaughter for profit, taking excessive risks because they know they will be able to "fix things" and never pay for the terrible damages they cause.

Now that would change things.

Obama promised change. So far, we haven't seen change, just another shade of the same greed and carelessness.

[Phlem]

194. + 5 bajillion x infinity.

Spot on my friend, spot on!

-p

[bread_and_roses]

180. No, it is not drivel, it absolutely on target - part allure to power, part protecting Obama

The labor movement, many big progressive organizations, have largely sold out. This is part an illusory expediency ("it's better to be at the table"), part the draw of proximity to the (perceived and actual) corridors of power, and part the genuine desire to protect and support Obama in the face of crazed attacks by Rs and Teabaggers.

But in the process they have lost all the momentum that took Obama into office. It was not us old "lefties" (ha ha - as if there were any real significant left in US) who stayed home on election day. However disgusted, many of us were still out there trudging the streets and manning the phones and dropping the lit and organizing the rallies for some pusillanimous D who was the lessor of two evils. Most of us would always rather do something than nothing. And of course, we were at the polls on election day. It was the young and the disenfranchised who came out in '08 who stayed home in '10. And labor could not mobilize its own members to the degree it was able to in '08, although they did a remarkable job in the face of many obstacles. Union members are getting badly screwed on contracts over health care, seeing those costs go way up again, taking pay cuts or stagnation, taking cuts in pension plans, accepting huge down-grading for new hires, the Trades are out of work, the public sector is under assault with little to no support from Obama ...

Hedges is right. It absolutely pains me that it is so, but I believe acts, not words.

edit for a muddle in the subject and for lack of clarity in last sentence and for spelling

[bigtree]

11. he says liberals have never had much courage or vision

. . . and he gets 20+ recs for that . . . as long as he criticizes Obama with the same demagogic appeal.

This has become a strange and twisted place of late.

[OregonBlue]

113. I know. Thought I stumbled into Freedom Works site by acident. Discussion is about the same.

[eleny]

14. Shades of Bill Clinton

He gave the right wing their draconian welfare reforms and NAFTA and they still tried to ruin his presidency.

[leftstreet]

22. PLUS their Telecom bill PLUS their Derivatives Gone Wild Act

:grr:

[StarsInHerHair]

40. plus Clinton's attempt to armor-up commercial airline

cockpit doors-which the GOP Congress blocked. Really weird thing, later when the GOP was insulting Dems for a pre9ii mentality, Bill didn't bring this up. Neither did he mention those cruise missiles he sent after Binny-the guy the Cons claimed was some nobody running around the desert in his nightgown. No, it was all about Clinton trying to grab power.

[Catshrink]

66. Plus you know he's going to "compromise" on extending the * tax cuts for the wealthy.

Hey Obama, how's that bipartisan thing working for you?

[Recursion]

173. Actually, no, I don't know that at all

And neither do you. And it would surprise me if he did.

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catshrink]

182. No, I don't.

Not even close. Nice try, thank you for playing, but apparently you haven't been paying attention.

[femrap]

100. +1000 nt

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

33. It's certainly been fascinating..

to watch the President go to bat, time after time, for a small group of men who absolutely loathe him.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

111. +1000% --

[lonestarnot]

34. K & R!

[laughingliberal]

36. K & R nt

[BzaDem]

37. You know what would be nice? If he could convince the people to elect a progressive Congress.

Right now, we only gain majorities because we convince 10s of very conservative districts to elect moderate Democrats instead of Republicans. (These districts would never elect liberals.)

Until that changes, and the PEOPLE elect a majority-progressive Congress (with 60 progressives in the Senate), everything else is just spinning wheels.

[WizardLeft62]

39. Reject Hedges Phantom "Liberal Class" Thesis

There is not one reference to the neoconservatives or the Bush administration pertaining to the Iraq War in Chris Hedges' new book. This is beyond an error of ommission but done to further Hedges' predetermined argument. I am skeptical of predeterminists such as Mr. Hedges who is somewhat of an alarmist, if not, highly dramatic in his vast generalizations.

Hedges' new thesis is based on an obvious dislike for this phantom "liberal class" which has been outmanned by DLC Democrats and the right wing for the past 30 years.

Yes, there are some areas of which Hedges makes valid points, but, this economic turmoil and wars have been at the hands of right wingers and the GOP. I suggest Mr. Hedges familiarize himself with neoliberal corporate globalization which is not something "all liberals" endorse. Yes, many Democrats have enabled this to take place over the years, but, however, this so called "liberal class" and the Democratic Party are not mutually exclusive.

In short, I reject Chris Hedges' superfical analysis of this phantom "liberal class" when the focus should be on the corporate class and the militarists which are not one and the same of this liberal class, which he (Hedges) does a poor job of analyzing in any meaningful way. Therefore, I reject Hedges main premise of this phantom "liberal class."

[blue neen]

44. +1. Well said.

Welcome to DU!


:dem:

[femrap]

101. Is the Heritage Foundation

making you work on Thanksgiving Day??? Do you get time and a half...$18/hour??

Hedges has been all over the world...covered many a war. He has seen more in his life than you and your entire family will ever see.

Go read a book.

[vssmith]

46. To advance the liberal agenda we needed a depression

The depression of 1929 allowed FDR to come to power and enact the most comprehensive progressive movement in the history of our country. The Republicans have been gnawing away at those FDR enactments ever since--they only need to get rid of Social Security to finish the job.

A depression would have been hurtful but in the long run may have cleansed and reformed the plutocracy we have become. What happened is that we averted a depression quickly and the corporate powers hardly missed a beat. I doubt we will have another FDR without a near disaster.

[Radical Activist]

48. No, we don't.

1) The 50's, 60's, and 70's were the most prosperous decades in American history, yet we saw major advances on a long list of liberal issues.

2) Waiting for a disaster is a lazy cop-out for people who can't organize and attract people to their point of view.

3) A depression is just as likely to be used by a right-wing movement in very destructive ways. That's very risky.

[vssmith]

98. I understand your point

We turned to FDR
Germany turned to Hitler

[Recursion]

60. Yeah, the German left said that too.

Didn't exactly work out that way.

[laughingliberal]

91. I doubt we'd see better policy, even so. It seems they're using this crisis to dismantle what's

...left of the New Deal. The neo-liberal austerity program seems to be all the rage nowadays.

[Bette Noir]

94. Sorry, what we have now is close enough to a Depression for my liking.

No work, no prospects of work, living on savings...

No.

[femrap]

102. Depression is not out of

the question....just wait until next year. As Bette Davis said in 'All About Eve,' fasten those seat belts.

[defendandprotect]

112. But the Elites just REPLAYED the depression ... and they changed the ending ... !!!

With FDR we mainly won --

In the bail outs of corrupt and criminal capitalism this time around, we lost!!

[Radical Activist]

47. "There is no hope left for achieving significant reform..."

Let's be honest. The author thought change through electoral politics was a waste of time BEFORE the 2008 election and he has been looking for validation of his ideology ever since.

Obama put more regulation on corporations in every sector of the economy and he's proposing even more over the energy sector. Claiming that someone who has been fighting corporate power "sold his soul" to them is not a reasonable conclusion. It's the conclusion the author needs to believe in order to prop up his ideological beliefs and explain his defeats. It's the conclusion he will continue to make no matter what Obama does.

"I do not know if we can win this battle. I suspect we cannot."

The problem isn't that we can't win. It's that Hedges doesn't know how. Spreading vague defeatism, while showing no path to more productive action, doesn't help us move toward victory. "Taking it to the streets" is a cliche slogan, not an action plan.

[Dr.Phool]

50. I don't know what world you're living in.

He's not only instituted anything more than half-measures, maybe even quarter- measures, but he's doing more to expand subsidized nuclear power than Dick Cheney.

Regulations on Wall Street? Cosmetic at best.

It must be hell, waking up in the morning, finding a $20 bill on the dresser, and your date gone with the wind.

[Recursion]

54. Well, good on that first part

he's doing more to expand subsidized nuclear power than Dick Cheney.

Great. Anything's better than importing more oil.

Regulations on Wall Street? Cosmetic at best.

You guys can bang your head against that wall and keep yelling that, but it won't make that true.

Remember when you all were saying "he has to appoint Warren or it's clear he's a sell-out"? And then he appointed her, and everybody either moved on to bitch about something else or pretended that he didn't actually appoint her because he skipped around the confirmation process (that she probably would have lost)?

This board is becoming a caricature of itself, sadly.

[carolinayellowdog]

62. Maybe the "caricature of itself" is coming to an end

after a very rough period in which scornful bullying of the progressive majority by a centrist minority kept us in a constant uproar

[Recursion]

68. Do you mean on DU or in the party as a whole?

On DU I see a progressive majority constantly beating up on a centrist minority, and live with it as the cost of being part of a cool board.

Party-wide? I think everybody assumes most ordinary people think like themselves; I don't know that anybody really knows what "most Democrats" think. That might be worth finding out.

[Radical Activist]

204. I find it really disgusting

that the smaller investments in nuclear make some people ignore the much, much larger stimulus investments in renewable energy and efficiency projects. Do you just enjoy being disappointed and miserable? Does it make you happy to seek out the negative and ignore the positive?

[tomp]

56. more non-radical non-sense.

if you don't see the need for a revolution of some type you are hopelessly lost.

if you know of any revolutionary progress that occurred without masses in the streets we'd love to hear about it.

"taking it to the streets" is not the action plan in and of itself, but merely the delivery system of the plan.

if you were as radical as you purport, you'd know that. but then, you're not.

[Recursion]

58. What was the last revolution that made things better? (nt)

[tomp]

206. you've got to be kidding. nt

[Recursion]

209. Not remotely

What was the last revolution that made things better? Revolutions don't have a very good track record.

[tomp]

223. self delete. nt

[Radical Activist]

203. More needs to be done than electoral politics.

But convincing people all their efforts in elections were a pointless waste of time doesn't usually motivate people to do more. It encourages people to give up and become apathetic. The essay wasn't helpful at all.
We have to pursue multiple strategies of being engaged in elections AND direct action tactics.

[defendandprotect]

114. Two excellent responses to you in posts below ... but

I'd just comment re the Plan B --

Of necessity, I think Hedges has to recite what has brought us to this point --

but, of course, some may look at that recitation as "defeatism" -- rather I think it's

ammunition to try to get people up off their butts and .... "out there" --

Exactly what Plan B may be, I'm not sure -- we have to recognize the immense liberal/

progressive voting bloc we have and decide what to do with it.

One thing I do know is that violence will only benefit the right wing -- and we

certainly should all recognize that it is indeed violence which the right wing has

always sought to provoke.

One of the most repeated "false flag" attempts by the right has been to try to suggest

that AAs were arming for a race war!!

[Radical Activist]

205. I tend to think

that telling people everything they've done is a pointless waste of time doesn't encourage them to do more. It encourages them to lose hope and give up. Hedges' attitude is toxic to peoples' movements.
I agree that more needs to be done that just electoral politics but this isn't the right way to argue for it.

[defendandprotect]

220. Disagree -- Hedges is clearly saying, there is an need to ACT .....

If we were going to point to any people telling the public that what they've done

is "pointless" then I think we'd have to look at Obama/Rahm for that in their

comments to the left!

[Mosaic]

49. There is a constant narrative

There is a constant narrative that is anti-Obama coming from the left, that never takes into account his many legislative accomplishments. It has backfired badly because it has cost him votes in the midterms and now threatens his second term. Palin is predicted to lose, but the media will prop her up to "narrow the gap", so the President needs our support and we can't afford to be as idealistic as Hedges wishes.

[tomp]

61. once again it's the "blame the left, support whatever shit the dems are handing out....

.... or you'll get palin" meme.

FAIL.

i have no problem if you wish to go after the media who are propping up palin, just don't blame the left for obama's problems.

[Recursion]

69. I blame how conservative a country the US is for Obama's problems

And I'm very glad he's doing what he's doing to shift the country as far to the left as it's willing to go. Reagan didn't get much conservative legislation through (and he was called a sell-out by "real conservatives" who were sure the country was much more conservative than it really is, too) but he changed the conversation; my hope is Obama's doing the left-leaning version of that (and he has the advantage of much more substantial legislation than Reagan got through).

Now, are parts of the left's commentariat being stupid? Yes. When someone doesn't go as far as you want you don't blame him for running in the wrong direction, which is what's happening.

[ShamelessHussy]

123. if it was so conservative, he wouldn't have been elected

this is said about every and all criticism of the POTUS... there could actually be useful dialog, if folks in the administration actually discussed some of the issues and concerns, instead of dismissing them out of hand, or worse, attacking his supporters, like a defensive child, using rethuglican talking points no less... which of course sets the tone for the national conversation.

just look at the blogs, for one small example... truly said, and a waste of a golden opportunity to come together, and fight for what we believe in, against our opponents.

:shakes-head:

[PurityOfEssence]

144. Absolutely correct

Thanks for saying this. The pitiful circular logic to justify sucking up to corporatist neo-feudalism is nauseating.

Obama and his supporters played hideously cynical games, duping people into believing he was the virtual second coming who beatifically emanated all that is good and true, and now his supporters blame suckered lefties for thinking he was really anti-war, for any corporate oversight at all, particularly steadfast on the environment or any of this. They sneer and blame the fools who bought the inferred beauty, barking or scoffing that anyone who didn't see it in the original pitch weren't paying attention, when it's pretty obvious that this sleazy posturing was very deliberate.

The sickening point is that the very crux of the issue is that the votes of liberals and leftists are important BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM, and we are thus not so irretrievably conservative as a people as the snotty know-it-all "realists" keep saying. It simply doesn't hold up to statistical proof: over and over polls show our electorate to be somewhat left of center; the problem is that the monied right is very well financed and extremely good at propaganda. They have to be, because their policies simply don't benefit enough people to win any plebiscite; their very existence proves their wily competence at winning elections.

The left was courted and used, and this was done because there actually are enough of them to sway major elections.

Getting lectures from smug, folded-hand cynics is the icky final irony for me, and it's been going on ever since the inauguration.

[Bette Noir]

97. To me, Hedges doesn't look so much idealistic as defeatist.

Saying that there's no hope doesn't strike me as a progressive stance. I'd rather support Mr. President while keeping constant leftward pressure on him.

One can be a Lefty without being pro-Palin (shudder).

[defendandprotect]

117. On the most serious issues which threaten our nation .... bankrupting of our Treasury by wars....

The constant call to end the wars --

Pelosi, 2006 ... "Democrats were elected to end the wars!" --

The need for universal health care -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- supported by more than 76%

of our citizens -- trampled by Obama's back room deals with Big Pharma and the private

HC industry to keep single payer "off the table."

And supporting and strengthening Social Security --

Where is Obama?

[panzerfaust]

51. Sadly True, and Truly Sad

[Recursion]

53. I can barely breathe through the pretentiousness

Yes, Hedges, complaining about the mechanisms of paying for health care is exactly like the dissidents in the Gulag. What a perfect comparison.

:eyes:

[ProSense]

67. "this is a major program to aid lower- and lower-middle-income families."

Guys, this is a major program to aid lower- and lower-middle-income families. How is that not a big progressive victory?

link

[Octafish]

71. ''Evil must always be defied.''

Count me as a wrench.

PS: This, and Hedges, do not in any way imply Obama is evil. The people who created our circumstances, however, are.

[grahamhgreen]

73. Be thankful we have not all given in to greedy corporate sefishness. Stand tall.

[Bette Noir]

86. Our prospects are not as gloomy as stated here.

Success won't come easily, but it's not impossible. Here on the Left Coast, progressives are making all kinds of... progress.

Edited for pre-caffeine typo. Happy Thanksgiving!

[femrap]

106. In time, I can see

The Left Coast seceding. I lived there and miss it very much. I'm back in Ohio....now known as Dumfukistan. We went from all Blue to all Red in 4 short years.

We now have a gov who was in Congress for 18 years then worked at Lehman Bros so he could get the bucks to run for gov. He's a mean son-of-a-short-dick. People will be dying in the streets when he is done with this state. Single mothers and their children are going to get the rug pulled out from under them.

I am surrounded by Dumfukistanians/Dumfukistanis every day. Goddess, I miss N. CA.

[flamingdem]

90. UNREC for lack of logic. The corporate class knows that a Palin or Beck would ruin the USA brand

and US dominance. They are idiots, but they're not stupid. They're just greedy and pushing for every crumb.

[defendandprotect]

103. No -- I think one of the main purposes of the Koch/T-baggers is to move to more disruption....

and near-violence --

That's the value to the right wing -- moving the country into a more violent era.

This is patriarchy at its most suicidal and patriarchy is a mirror image of violence.

This is what 60 years of political violence in America by the right wing has been

aiming for in its efforts to overturn democracy by one means or another, including

bankrupting our Treasury.

This is what decades of violence on our TV screens has sought to bring us --

This is what the Drug War was about, making us fear our neighbors and our children.

This is what interference with the right to free assembly is about in the brutal

and cruel response of our police enforcement -- and FBI infiltration of peace-groups

seeking to brand them as "terrorists."

This is what our new perpetual wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about -- can we even

react sufficiently any longer to the brutality, violence, cruelty we know is being

committed every day in our names in these countries?

This is what new TORTURE programs are about -- moving fear of our own government into

our hearts and mind -- shock and awe.

Times of peace provide for reflection -- investigation -- accountability --

By all means the right wing must prevent a time of peace -- and the danger that a loss

of control of government would mean to them.

Look at how close Michael Moore has come to waking us all about about our cherished

system of medical care which places us below most other industrial nations -- and how

corporate fascists have placed him and his family under threat of being "thrown off a cliff" -- !

It is the American public which should be throwing these black hats "off a cliff" -- and

can only trust that one day soon we're going to find the Plan B which will do just that!

We have the numbers -- they have the money and our government -- what is Plan B?

[femrap]

108. Wake up....who do you think

is backing Palin and Beck?????????? These 2 will do exactly what the Corporations want them to. Why the hell do you think they're getting all of this media coverage?

Geez.

The USA brand is over....you are witnessing The Decline of the American Empire. Stop the denial....it's over. We're burnt toast.

Hedges is a realist.

[flamingdem]

120. The US is not a country of extremes, not yet anyway, Palin/Beck will fizzle soon

OK remind me if I'm wrong, but I don't see them appealing to a broad audience.

Obama will win in 2012. There's no one on their side that can win.

[femrap]

169. I have a bridge......nt

[Recursion]

166. Er... no

who do you think is backing Palin and Beck??????????

Certainly not the GOP establishment, who are trying to find a pit to shove her in for the next two years.

Ron Paul called his fellow Republicans to task for calling Obama a socialist; Paul said Obama is a corporatist, and that there are too many corporatists in the GOP.

If you want to call Obama and the "reasonable" GOP wing "corporatist", well, go for it I guess. FDR was a "corporatist" by that logic: the kind of regulations he pushed consolidated a lot of economic power in the hands of a few large corporations that were more accountable than the many smaller corporations that came before. This has always been the Progressive playbook, and pretending otherwise is just ignoring reality. Social Security was decried as a giveaway to the bankers -- and, hell, in a sense it was (it made Ross Perot rich, too), but it was and is still a great program. The post-Sinclair meat packing regulations were lambasted for concentrating power in the hands of a few slaughterhouses -- which they did; they just also made meat much safer.

[femrap]

171. You are

young....and I think you have blown a lobe or two.

tata

[defendandprotect]

93. "Obama, after selling his soul to corporations" .... that is the main point ....

which many here have awakened to, but which a few wish to still deny.

And which makes clear how our "people's" government pretty much

no longer exists and how it is constantly sold out to elites by dishonest men among us.

It's a point which DU still does not want to recognize and deal with.

Yes -- we are much worse off than we thought in '08 and '06 and '04 and '00 when we still

had some hope that we could change the direction our hijacked government was moving.

The pie has hit us in the face and we still want to pretend that it's not happening.

It's on film, it's on the record -- it's what most of us are saying -- and it can no longer

be ignored.

It is time to think of resistance in a new way, something that is no longer carried out to reform a system but as an end in itself. African-Americans understood this during the long night of slavery. German opposition leaders understood it under the Nazis. Dissidents in the former Soviet Union knew this during the nightmare of communism. Resistance in these closed systems was local and often solitary. It was done with the understanding that evil must always be defied. The tiny acts of rebellion—day after day, month after month, year after year and decade after decade—exposed to everyone who witnessed them the heartlessness, cruelty and inhumanity of the oppressor. They were acts of truth and beauty. We must take to the street. We must jam as many wrenches into the corporate system as we can. We must not make it easy for them. But we also must no longer live in self-delusion. This is a battle that will outlive us. And if we fight, even with this tragic vision, we will lead lives worth living and keep alive another way of being.

it is certainly time that DU began to deal with reality -- and a Plan B!!

We have a huge liberal/progressive voting bloc which continues to sit here trying to support a

Democratic Party which has shown us over and again that it is not the party we envision it to be.

Not the party we remember -- Not the party any longer of democratic ideals -- but pro-corporate.

We are every day living CLOSER to the "heartlessness, cruelty and inhumanity of the oppressor."

We know those evils are impacting the lives of our children.

We know that our planet is in grave danger.

Corporatism/fascism has been put in place by elites who are suicidal, using wealth and violence,

stolen elections and lies.

This is treachery and treason which elites regularly tell us should be laughed off as "conspiracy

theory."

If we won't act together to save the planet, will we even act together to save our own children?



And thank you, Karmadillo, for posting this -- saw the article mentioned and recommended

on another sit and was planning to try to find it-!! :)

[asjr]

115. My voice in this thread will probably get lost

but I stand by Obama. My anger stays with Republicans and the MSM. And I did not cry when some Blue-dog Democrats were not reelected. Most of the time all I have to do is remember the eight years of an illicit president by the name of G.W. Bush and realize they were the worst years of my life. President Obama has many hats he has to wear and not all of them fit. I happen to think he is the best thing that has happened to America in many many years. There are too many messes to clean up and sometimes the broom has been shredded. The Senate and House must learn more about us, the citizenry of America, than who is top hat in their houses. Judges Alito and Roberts were let into the SCOTUS by some Democrats also, and they worked their magic and made corporations into human beings. It took Obama to get two women on the court. But the felonious five are still there and that really worries me. I refuse to blame Obama for everything that some people think have gone wrong. This is just my two cents. Everyone else can have theirs.

[Skittles]

134. anger with Republicans and the MSM is a GIVEN

anger with Obama is more palpable because it is mixed with extreme disappointment.....we all know Obama had a huge hole to fill but it's like instead of filling in the hole, he shoveled the dirt on US

[loudsue]

116. Chris Heges says here everything I've been thinking.

We need a new way to look at our predicament, because everything has, indeed, changed. And our old ways of getting things straightened out are not available to us anymore.

Great article.

[femrap]

200. He speaks the Truth, doesn't he? nt

[pasto76]

125. Hey dumbass, a comment about your "powerful unions"

At the peak of Union power, only 35% of the workforce was organized. Even though every single american reaps the benefits of the battles organized labor have fought, few of them have actually participated, and fewer still view unions as a benevolent force.

Comments like "Unions are ineffective and marginal" buy into the corporate overlord propaganda that Unions are some shadowy force akin to the Illumanti. They arent, never have been, never will be. I do have my house because of union wages. I am a HIGHLY skilled structural ironworker due to the training and experience the union has provided. I have been out of work 15 of the past 18 months; having worked 3 full weeks now, my union wages have gotten us away from the financial hole we were beginning to circle. And I work my ass off for 8 hours a day to earn it.


These days the NATIONAL AVERAGE ACROSS ALL TRADES is 15%. Some places and trades are higher, and like here in Colorado, some places are much lower. Ironworkers have only 8% of the work in this state. Hardly a force that has a stanglehold on anything or anyone.

Which makes the hundreds of millions of dollars that Unions contributed to democratic campaigns this year much more valuable than most PACs or other groups. It means that your average union member is much more active politically than your average american.

Maybe instead of decrying their ineffectivness after so much effort, you could actually BACK us in other areas.

[Kolesar]

177. Comments like "Unions are ineffective and marginal" buy into the corporate overlord propaganda

well stated!

[defendandprotect]

196. Right wing has been working on destroying unions for decades, even using Mafia.....

Highest unionization America ever reached was 39% --

It's now been reduced to 7% or less!!!

That was one of the reasons why Clinton ushered the DLC-corporate wing into the

Democratic Party -- he recognized that unions didn't have sufficient funds to help

his campaign. That was one of the underlying reasons for corporatizing the Democratic

Party!!

This last election for every $7 that went to Republicans the Democrats got $1 ---

Iow, selling out the party's ideals for a corporate buck still didn't work!!!

[Jack Rabbit]

126. This should settle the question: Obama is an American

I never had any doubts, but this ought to convince even Orly Taitz.

Corporation have treated Obama the same way they have treated other American workers.

[OlympicBrian]

128. President is/was just a "tool"...

"US corporatocracy" - the system of government that serves the interests of, and is essentially run by, corporations. The term describes neoliberalism in its US operational context, with all its components.
...
At the heart of the corporatocracy is a non-elected body, the US Chamber of Commerce. This powerful group, known mainly for its political attack ads, is extremely well-financed through mostly anonymous, sometimes foreign entities. It acts as a major focal point for corporations, with a distinct emphasis on the biggest. The Chamber is growing, becoming increasingly dominant in the corporate, media, political, election, legislative, and judicial spheres. It prefers foreign interests over US citizens, carrying an agenda aimed at offshoring US jobs--and tax breaks to corporations which do so. The Chamber also recently kicked off a campaign to change a law which prevents foreign corrupt practices. Congress acts in lockstep with the Chamber...the President has limited powers...and the US Judicial Branch has been swayed to serve the Chamber (the Chamber brags about its judicial victories.) So the Chamber has a lock-down on the three branches of government. In summary--the big money, influence, and decisions flow through the Chamber and its biggest corporate constituents, while the three branches of US government are merely tools.
...
Full:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9624014

[OlympicBrian]

133. Please note that $86.2 mill was spent by insurance corporations to lobby against health care reform

Not mentioned in the article, this money played heavily in development of health care. So if people had a hard time getting their voices heard during the debate, you can bet this money was on the other side of it.

And it was the US Chamber of Commerce who spent this incredible sum.

"The U.S. Chamber of Commerce astonished even the most jaded Washington-watchers last year when it reported spending nearly $150 million on lobbying. The figure obliterated all previous records and cemented the chamber's reputation as Capitol Hill's most formidable lobbying force."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/17/AR2010111706325.html

[grahamhgreen]

135. Hopefully Obama is not a Trojan Donkey and will come to his senses for his own legacy.

[impik]

138. The tragedy is that DU became just another fringe site, completely detached from reality

[Jakes Progress]

139. K&R Truth is painful. No wonder so many here

want to ignore it and attack it. It hurts.

[Ozymanithrax]

140. So President Obama saved the economy from a depression...

an economy that is recovering slowly and has actually seen companies make record profits rather than go bankrupt, has saved the jobs at GM and Chrysler and all the little companies that feed them, which saved the jobs of millions of Americans, and that is selling your soul to the devil, has managed to pass reforms that will help millions of Americans live healthier lives, and that is selling his soul to the devil.

Seems to me, he made a damned good bargain.

So should he have saved his soul and sent the U.S. into a depression, put millions of people out of work, and driven industries into bankruptcy?

[OlympicBrian]

142. Yeah he doesn't get much credit, huh nt

[Ozymanithrax]

141. Delete double click...

[OlympicBrian]

143. The Pennsylvania Farmer's Remedy, 1768

"It is the duty of the governed, to endeavour to rectify the mistake, and appease the passion. They have not at first any other right, than to represent their grievances, and to pray for redress, unless an emergence is so pressing, as not to allow time for receiving an answer to their applications which rarely happens. If their applications are disregarded, then that kind of position becomes justifiable, which can be made without breaking the laws, or disturbing the public peace. This consists in the prevention of the oppressors reaping advantage from their oppressions, and not in their punishment. For experience may teach them what reason did not; and harsh methods, cannot be proper, till milder ones have failed.

If at length it become undoubted, that an inveterate resolution is formed to annihilate the liberties of the governed, the English history affords frequent examples of resistance by force. What particular circumstances will in any future case justify such resistance, can never be ascertained till they happen. Perhaps it may be allowable to say, generally, that it never can be justifiable, until the people are FULLY CONVINCED, that any further sub-mission will be destructive to their happiness."

- John Dickinson, The Pennsylvania Farmer's Remedy, 1768.

[JDPriestly]

146. Interesting.

Looks like we just have to sit quietly and wait until things just fall apart of their own accord. That probably will happen sooner than we think.

[Greyhound]

158. Good article, but this thread is just freaking hilarious.

Most of the usual suspects jumped in with all of the same nonsense, non-sequiturs, and false analogies/comparisons they've been trying to sell for two years now, but as usual there are still more recs than posts.
:rofl:

[DeSwiss]

160. This.....

...is the TRUTH no one wants to hear. The best and most recent example of the truth wherein Chris Hedges speaks is from the display of our collective acquiescence at the choice of being exposed to death-ray machines and/or federally sanctioned gropers at the nation's airports. We heard a few grumbles and then the long hoped-for lawsuit happened and that was it. Back to business as usual. Chris, I'm not so sure we were worth saving in the end. Or that it was ever possible.

- And the meek shall inherit the earth......

"Lately though, I don't hear so much outrage. In fact, the readers seem to be suffering from what someone aptly called "rage fatigue." Which is another way of saying the bastards have simply worn us out. And it's true. I am not kidding when I say rage fatigue victims have fallen into an ongoing mid-level depression. (Looks to me like the whole country has, but then I'm no mental health expert.) The less depressed victims can be found lurking near the edges of the Obama cult, consoling themselves that a soothing and/or charismatic orator is better than nothing.

Obama may yet be borne through the White House portico by a Democratic host of seraphim, but he cannot do much without the consent of a bought and paid for Congress. Only George Bush can do that, and we can only hope God broke the mold after he made George. And like whoever else wins the presidency, Obama can never acknowledge any significant truth, such as that the nation is waaaaay beyond being just broke, and is even a net debtor nation to Mexico, or that the greatest touch-me-not in the U.S. political flower garden, the "American lifestyle," is toast. But then, we really do not expect political truth, but rather entertainment in a system where, as Frank Zappa said, politics is merely "the entertainment branch of industry."

Still, millions of Americans do grasp at The Audacity of Hope, a meaningless marketing slogan of the publishing industry if ever there was one. At least it has the word Audacity in it, something millions of folks are having trouble conjuring up the least shred of these days. And there is good old fashioned "Hope" of course -- that murky, undefined belief that some unknown force or magical unseen power will reverse the national condition -- will deliver us from what every bit of evidence indicates is irreversible, if not politically, then economically and ecologically: Collapse.

Compounding everything is the fact that it is quite human and even pragmatic to passively accept reality as it is. Until it's too late to do anything. As my late friend Virgil the philosophical backhoe operator summed it up: "If we fucked everything up so bad tryin' to do our best, maybe we oughtta just leave'er be for a while. Quit thinking about it so much."

~Joe Bageant, from http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/04/the-audacity-of.html">'The Audacity of Depression', April 2008

K&R

[newtothegame]

174. The tragedy is that we bought it just to put a few extra cool pages in the history books.nt

[KoKo]

176. Eat the Juicy Parts off the Bone to sustain yourself and then leave bones to the REST of the People.

Well...I don't think Obama has gone THAT FAR...YET. He still seems to have some conscience about his REPRESENTATION of ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE USA!

But, as days go by, I see him drifting more Rithward into the Arms of Rovian Repugs.

It's hard to know after almost two years...where he stands on ANYTHING...except CENTER DEM POLITICS! RAHM EMMANUEL POLITICS...which is really "Appease the RIGHT and TRI.ANGULATE THE LEFT!"

[davidwparker]

179. 99% Wisdom. Add a forfeited second term for the other 1%

[chervilant]

186. hmm...

One has to wonder...is this the legacy Obama wants to leave for his daughters? Is he a puppet for the Corporate Megalomaniacs, and does he honestly think this top-heavy Ponzi pyramid we call 'free market capitalism' can survive the inevitable rebellion of the oppressed and angry hoi polloi? Does he really think his wealth will protect his family from the social upheaval that is unfolding even as I type this?!

If he can answer yes to any of those questions, he's not the man I hoped he could be. Furthermore, he is not the person who will get us safely past this catastrophic economic reordering of the world.

[INdemo]

187. We need a progressive third party

[Recursion]

192. Name it after a color. Red? Orange? Yello? Blue? Indigo? Violet?

Am I missing any possibilities?

[INdemo]

189. We need a progressive third party

[EarthFirster]

193. Obama had NO CHOICE!

The corps DICTATE the president, period. Look at Ron Paul. Not a Democrat favorite, but FOX news banned him from debates. Not a corpratist, just like Nader got banned.

If you want to be pres, you have to do what the banks TELL YOU TO DO.

I mention Ron Paul because Kennedy did exactly what Ron Paul wants to do to the fed. You know the rest of the story.

Goldman Sachs donated 600,000 to Bams, 300,000 to the Pub nutjob.

[defendandprotect]

197. MSM also gets 80% of the campaign funds for TV ads .....

when corporations don't donate to candidates like Kucinich or Ron Paul,

it makes MSM much more likely to dismiss them and sideline them.

[Joe Fields]

195. The tragedy here is that you have to sell your soul to corporations....

just to get elected to anything anymore.

[defendandprotect]

198. Obama didn't have to ... he had raised HUGE amounts from individuals over internet ....

don't recall the figure -- but Thom Hartmann was taling about that one day ....

and looking for a way to explain it, he finally suggested that Obama shouldn't

have but probably did feel "insecure" and therefore took corporate money.

Many presidents have spoken about the hidden powers that impact the presidency/

government --

Teddy Roosevelt said "corporations must be banned from any involvement whatsoever in

our elections."

We are rivaling the age of the "Robberbarons" at this point with the shift of wealth

into elite hands -- and look at the recent reports on corporate profits this year!!



On top of what Obama raised, I think I recall DU giving him another $250,000???

Am I wrong about that???

[Major Hogwash]

207. IBTL

2 days later ....

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

[gulliver]

219. People who believe "writing" like this are to be pitied.

This kind of an article is useless except as a litmus test for emotionally hysterical gullibility.

[somone]

222. Not sure about soul, but principles are nowhere to be found

and it sure looks like there was a plan

[sarcasmo]

225. Mr. Hedges speaking the truth, "selling his soul to corporations"

Corporate America is what we have become.