Are you proud or ashamed of the history of the United States?

[mix]

[Motown_Johnny]

1. proud of some parts, ashamed of others

[yurbud]

2. any other response would be a denial of reality

[mix]

31. my position

:hi:

[Posteritatis]

33. Yep.

You guys had Jim Crow, Prohibition, various ridiculous puritanical one-thing-or-anothers, colonialism, some incredibly nasty military (mis)adventures, and so on and so forth, but also put people on the moon, played a major role in eradicating one of the deadliest diseases in human history, maintained a massive, multiethnic, generally-democratic society with more stability than most other competitors have, and generally don't need to worry about being hauled off into the night for saying bad things about the government no matter how bad it's actually been.

Most other places are the same. Canada's got its high standard of living, established fairly early and maintained well, an early (if odd) start on a lot of the same general civil rights, a modest if steady stream of science and culture through most of its history, and a (mostly) healthy attitude towards the country in general. We've also got the War Measures Act and a native genocide which was official national policy into the late 1980s.

Your statement pretty much applies to any country out there, except maybe the handful which have yet to be around much to build up a substantial history one way or another. It's certainly a better approach than the insert-country-here-is-intrinsically-good-and-or-evil attitude. ;)

[tinymontgomery]

12. MY answer

also. We've accomplished some great things, and have really fallen down on others. I don't think any country can claim perfection.

[theoldman]

17. How about 80/20, certainly not 50/50.

During our history we have gone two steps forward and one step back. Many countries have only gone down hill since their inception.

[mix]

55. The longevity of this republic is noteworthy. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

54. Yep. That's why I had to vote "other".........

It depends on what part as to whether I'm proud or ashamed.

[sakabatou]

61. Same

[Lucky 13]

3. This is not a yes or no question.

[mix]

4. Hence the 3rd option. Take advantage of it. nt

[Lorien]

40. That wasn't what they meant. Look at the way you phrased it

"Yes" can indicate "yes, I'm ashamed" or "yes, I'm proud".

[mix]

46. I agree it was poorly phrased, but most people clearly get what I am asking, nt

[AsahinaKimi]

5. agreed.

+1
Our history has some wonderful moments, and then there are other things.. Like
the Japanese interment...not so much.

[sally cat]

6. If they would have raked out their footprints I would have been proud.

[mix]

7. They must still be there. The flag, I imagine, is probably

bending because of the force of the engines.

Is there wind on the moon?

[sally cat]

11. Apparently not, although that is the first time I've seen the question raised.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. You supplied a jingoistic image

and left this question in Sarah Palin Orifice.

Proud?........ Ashamed?

What a load of CRAP.

[mix]

9. As if you make sense. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. Well I think your thought processes demand

something ..... before sardonic, irony or conscious thought.

[mix]

21. Are you qualified to make such a clinical diagnosis?

I doubt it.

[Ichingcarpenter]

32. Only if WHAT I SAID made you think and respond

Which says a lot.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. Just like the answers to your poll

It was almost Rasmussen in its sweetness of bullshit.

I voted other...... did You?

[mix]

44. Palin? Disingenous. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

57. One these days it will be over cut and dried.

You don't get it.

[mix]

58. "Cut and dried"? What does this metaphor mean?

"one of these days"?

[Ichingcarpenter]

60. The orifice of your intellect is equal to the responses

you got on your poll

DO YOU THINK YOU CAN PLAY WITH ME?

I'm ready to double down

[mix]

65. You're a metaphor machine.

Your antagonism is interesting. Maybe if you clearly wrote what your issue is, then I would understand you. I made a mistake in the initial answers regarding the poll question. If that is your complaint, then I apologize for the misstep.

Historical consciousness is human nature. Living in a country with such a tarnished and magnificent past, my question doesn't seem extraordinary. However your presumptions do.

I am merely curious what people think about our past, as Americans.

[XemaSab]

10. Proud of the ideals we started out with

and proud of how far we've come. :patriot:

With a few rough patches along the way. :(

[mix]

14. And yet we have so far to go.

:hi:

[XemaSab]

20. It's true

:hi:

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. He has nothing to do with proud or ashamed

Don't let the past steal your present.


Forever is composed of nows.
-- Emily Dickinson



I have realized that the past and future are real illusions, that they exist in the present, which is what there is and all there is.
-- Alan Watts

[mix]

30. The eternal present. A sentiment that denies and denigrates memory and history. nt

[bemildred]

13. Yes. nt

[Kennah]

15. If I had to generalize ...

... I'm proud of some things from our past, but increasingly I see every reason to be ashamed of our future.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. Pride or shame in other people's deeds is not warranted.

"Are you proud or ashamed to be associated with the US?" is a better question (although even then asking it as yes/no doesn't work...)


Disclaimer: I am currently mildly drugged up on codeine; any sentiments expressed in this post may be disclaimed once proper dental work has taken place.

[Pirate Smile]

19. Both

[Myrina]

22. Your options don't match your question.

You give a double-option question, which a 'yes' or 'no' answer doesn't fit.

[mix]

27. Other is for the nuanced. The poll is clearly not a yes or no choice. nt

[Myrina]

41. You don't quite get it ...

One can't ask a question with two possible responses - approve or disapprove - and then give 'yes' or 'no' as the response.
Yes or no to what?
Your response options should be 'approve' or 'disapprove' in accordance with your question.

[mix]

47. Pardon my misphrasing. nt

[11 Bravo]

23. Dumbest. Fucking. Poll. Question. Ever.

But props for includong footage of a (who knows which one) lunar landing. That alone should confuse a few respondents.

[mix]

24. I like your tie. nt

[pscot]

35. Did someone mention pie?

[mix]

50. I'll eat my humble pie for screwing up the answers. I corrected it. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

56. Is pie still 3 and 1/7?

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. some folks should be able to handle nuance

proud of or ashamed don't work in real historical work

[usregimechange]

28. Both

[bluestate10]

29. Bursting with pride on some. Would rather that other not have happened. nt

[ejpoeta]

36. you ask if i am proud or ashamed and then have a yes/no answer.

does not compute. i am ashamed at some things and proud of others. but that is not an option.

[mix]

53. It really didn't compute. Sorry for the mistep. nt

[blonndee]

37. Hahaha...your results are going to be totally meaningless.

And you don't even know why. OMG.

[mix]

48. I see your point now. I did not provide clear enough options. Get over it.

I am really more interested in the substance of people's answers in their posts.

But you are right, the misphrasing of the poll renders the numbers meaningless.

However, what people say does not.

[blonndee]

51. Oh, I'm over it.

Never was under it. :)

[mix]

52. The error of my ways...Thank you, sincerely, for pointing them out. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

92. If nothing else, the United States contibuted "OMG" to the English Language.

That's gotta count for... something.

[Lorien]

38. Your poll should read "Proud" "Ashamed" or "Other"

If I answer "yes" that could mean "Yes, I'm proud" or "Yes, I'm ashamed".

[mix]

43. You are absolutely right. Confusing options, but most get it.

I edited it.

[Turborama]

42. Self delete due to the OP's edit n/t

[mix]

45. self delete nt

[The Straight Story]

49. I am as proud of the US as I am of all other countries. Mistakes are made, you grow, change

Just like Iran, china, etc are doing......

[Ichingcarpenter]

59. beneath still waters

The surface won't tell you
What the deep water knows


Well for some the waters are swallow
and the fish are there.

[ShamelessHussy]

62. BOTH

[HCE SuiGeneris]

63. Both. n/t

[PufPuf23]

64. Other. I am sad because more shame than pride has come from years of life and

lost idealism and world view of youth.

The Vietnam War war was ending and I was a 21 year old freshman at Cal in January 1974.

I came to Cal with a permanent Federal technician job (adjusted so I could be educated) and scholarships. Working for the Feds and being anti-war were my adolescent rebellions with my Dad, a GI in Europe WWII vet.

My heart had never been broken by person nor institution nor profession.

My Dad finished 8th grade. We were close until he passed away age 86 in 1996 (Mom in 83 at age 61, got sick at my current age).

I had attended most of primary school living with relatives near San Francisco or at SF area boarding schools from 59-70 before graduating from the Reservation HS 30 miles away from home.

I consider neo-liberals, neo-conservatives, and the general society to be 21st century American fascism to a degree never imagined possible in fact though I read Phil Dick, 1984, Brave New World, Catch-22, and Sinclair Lewis for fun or classes in high school.

But there is much pride as well over the years and now too.

I am pissed at the wars and concentration of wealth and power, lies told, and human justice in the USA and abroad.

My 3 biggest issues are environment, human rights in the broadest sense, and anti-war. The USA has not been doing so great alas in fact nor perception in recent years.

[mix]

67. Thank you for the thoughtful and personal reflection.

:hug:

[proteus_lives]

66. Both, which is natural of any nation.

[mix]

68. Both would be my answer as well.

But your relativism seems irrelevant here.

[proteus_lives]

69. What relativism?

It's the truth.

No matter what nation you come from, there are things to be proud of and things to be ashamed of.

[mix]

70. Your relativism is a justification. Your statement that all "nations"

have things to be proud and ashamed of is true, but ethically wrong. We alone are responsible for our history. If we share the same sense of pride and shame with other "nations" throughout history, that is accurate, but for us as Americans, it is irrelevant. The ethics of the present means facing the past, owning it, and understanding how it shapes our present. That is the only hope for future change.

[proteus_lives]

77. I agree.

"The ethics of the present means facing the past, owning it, and understanding how it shapes our present. That is the only hope for future change."

But I don't believe that it's out of box to say that it's a natural for for all nations, especially at a place prone to the reverse side of American Exceptionalism.

[mix]

79. thanks for your cool response

Happy Turkey Day

:hi:

[proteus_lives]

85. Back at you.

Eat some turkey and see the clan.

:hi:

[tavalon]

71. This is not a black and white issue

In the overall, I'm trending toward not being happy with his administration but there are some great things that have happened and there have been what the fuck?! moments and a lot of stuff in between.

[immoderate]

72. Non-sequiter. Inasmuch as I can take no credit or blame...

I deny all pride and shame.

---

For those things that I did well. I'll take some pride there. But that's not American history, that's part of the history of the universe. :)

--imm

[ProudDad]

73. I'm ashamed of the history of all humans

over the last 10,000 years...

And if we don't change course, AND SOON, we will join the dinosaurs as another failed evolutionary experiment...

[inna]

74. Were the questions in the OP edited, or is this a different thread?

I'm confused; all I know is that I just voted in a very similar poll, and I liked the binary version (has the US been good or harmful to the world, or something along those lines) much better. I was in the small minority who answered "negative"/"net harm caused", btw.

This poll is less interesting though, most people will probably say "other" or "proud".

[mix]

75. The original answers were confusing, so I edited them.

The question was not edited.

[inna]

80. Got it, found the other poll:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9626541&mesg_id=9626541

[GSLevel9]

76. the US has more to be proud of than to be ashamed of...

the highlights overshadow the dark spots.

[Arkana]

78. Proud of parts, ashamed of others.

For every Revolution, there has been a horrific display of intolerance and savagery. But, for every McCarthy hearing, there were events such as our victories in WWI and II, landing a man on the moon, freeing the slaves...it's possible to look at our past and feel both pride and shame.

[Bluebear]

81. You might have posted a picture of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment for balance.

Just for balance for your poll and all.

[mix]

82. I understand your point, but you are misreading the picture and my intentions.

Imperialism's next frontier. Wasn't it always technology that made it possible?

Your accusation of oversight and bias is unnecessary, but well taken.

[Bluebear]

84. Thank you for clarifying!

[MrScorpio]

83. Mixed

Proud of the good stuff and ashamed of the bad.

[mix]

88. What makes you proud?

Happy Thanksgiving...may it be joyous and musical.
:hi:

[Incitatus]

86. Yay, we put a flag on the moon. What else could those billions of dollars have done?

health care, feeding the poor?

[mix]

87. +1 nt

[spanone]

89. can't be proud about trying to eliminate the indian race

[mix]

90. Forever will haunt the American conscience and soul. nt

[ZombieHorde]

91. I generally don't feel like a part of that group, though legally I am part of that group,

so I feel neither pride nor shame when I consider the history of the US.

[donheld]

93. Proud of our war machine?

Proud of our crumbling educational system
Proud of our horrid medical system
Proud of our soring poverty
Proud of our gargantuan Prison population
Proud of our ability ot manufacture virtually nothing anymore.

What'd I leave out.

[H2O Man]

94. Other.

US history is far, far too large to reduce to a single adjective.