"Well, today we're talking about this very important

[genie_weenie]

immigration issue, there'll be time to talk about that later." ~ Hillary Clinton

You know what? Fuck you. Of course there will be time to talk about it later, because your precious daughter isn't going to have her fucking legs blown off by an IED is she?

You can go to hell, Hillary. Everyday since Nov 2006 you, along with everyone else in this 110th Congress, have had a chance to go down in history as someone who says damn to my political future I will do the right thing and you haven't.

Fuck this whole "worried about your political futures" Congress!
Fuck this Terrorist Executive Branch!
Fuck all of you.

You are all awash in the blood of innocent Iraqis and the slaves in the military.

Hillary, I hope you and your daughter have a nice long life together with many grandchildren because a lot of Americans will not.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/23/democrats.dilemma/

[waiting for hope]

1. Here's one sane voice:

"Former Sen. John Edwards, who is running third in the polls behind Clinton and Obama, sought to ratchet up the pressure on the front-runners to oppose the bill, denouncing it as a "capitulation" to Bush.

"What I'm asking is for the Congress to stand its ground, to do what it needs to do for America," Edwards told CNN's "The Situation Room." "This is not about politics. It's about life and death."

[LEW]

2. I have never supported her as President

and hope upon hope she does not win the nomination - I will not vote for a repuke but will also not vote for her.

[William769]

Well I say FUCK YOU!

Now I feel better.

[genie_weenie]

5. That's fine Bill.

Just remember I'm not keeping americans in Iraq but then hell I'm not as important as Her Majesty Hillary the First.

She's so forceful, she's got the "balls" to order men to their deaths, she's made up of Presidental-like stuff!

[Solly Mack]

3. Dead soldiers give ammo to attack Bush with

the more that die, the more ammo

Yeah, yeah..it's just so sad and tragic they have to die but since that can't be helped, let's use those deaths to show how much we support the troops and Bush doesn't

As for the dead Iraqis? They don't matter.


(yes, that was said sarcastically)

edit for kneejerkers and builders of strawmen. I never said anyone wanted them to die. Only that their deaths are being used as a stick to beat each other over the head with...said agenda which does not include putting an end to the dying.

[mmonk]

4. We want to impress republican voters. That is why we emphasize

the issues that get them excited. This is our strategy for our glorious victory in 08. Your vote is taken for granted so we'll explain later. Have a "blessed" day.

put DLC candidate name here.

[jobycom]

6. Obama and H Clinton said the same thing: We haven't seen the bill

we can't comment on it until we do.

We have got to get better and understanding what the media is trying to do. Reread the story you link to. The only comments coming from Dem leaders say two things: We haven't seen the bill, or we may vote against it even though the leaders approved the compromise.

All the rest is CNN's attempt to piss you off at the Dems. Everything else in the article--all the bullshit about how Democrats are only worrying about how to frame the issue and how voters will take their votes, is all CNN Bullshit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed at this surrender, too, and as an undecided, how Obama and Clinton respond to this issue, and how they vote, will enter strongly into my decision. But all this "Fuck Clinton!" noise (especially since Obama and others are saying the same thing) is straight out of the RNC handbook. We need to not buy their crap, and even more, we ought to resist selling it.

[genie_weenie]

7. The quote is found in the video link.

You are correct she then followed, after being asked again, with the "i need to see the bill" noise. No, This has gone on long enough. This is not out of the RNC playbook. She's obviously waiting to see where she will come out looking most presidentially.

Her (and every other spotlight grabbing politician) 3 day trips to Iraq and Afghanistan don't impress me.

[jobycom]

9. Obama said the same thing. She's being consistent.

She's waiting to see the bill, and yes, she's waiting to get feedback on the bill, before she shoots her mouth off about it. Exactly the same as Obama. And the same as Edwards would do if he were actually in office to have to put his money where his mouth is.

The article is what I meant was out of the RNC playbook. Make every decision the Democrats make about the poll numbers, so nobody thinks of them as principled.

The trips to Iraq and Afghanistan are meant to appease the other side, to make her look involved and rational on the subject. That's the image she's going for: skeptical, thoughtful, and balanced on the Iraq issue. That's why she's not sounding like an anti-war candidate--she's trying to appear as a statesperson, not an ideologue.

But her comments have never been pro-war (unlike Edwards), and she's been (contrary to popular slander) speaking out against an open-ended war for years now (she called for a soft deadline on withdrawal and called the IWR a mistake at the same time Jack Murtha was doing so). To me, she's been consistent, and I haven't seen anything yet to indicate she supports the invasion or the continued deployment of the troops.

My opinion of her could change over this bill. Let's see how she votes before we flip her off. And how Obama and the others vote, as well.

Bush is the real enemy. Whether Clinton is the best candidate for president or not, I haven't decided, and don't plan on deciding for a while yet. But even if she caves, she's not the enemy. Bush is the enemy. He's the one holding the cards, vetoing the bills, keeping the war going for no good reason. He's the enemy, and we should all remember that, no matter how pissed we get at our own.

Except Lieberman. He's not the enemy, but he's close enough these days.

[genie_weenie]

10. You have responded with a cogent, reasoned and rational response

and it would be rude of me not to acknowledge that point. I hope you are correct and I am wrong about Hillary and (despite appearances) she will work to end this incomprehensible carnage.

You are also correct the dickbush Terrorist Executives are the enemy. They are the real enemy of the american people.

I salute your response.

[genie_weenie]

8. Additionally, in the CNN link, Edwards and Kucinich

have no problem being clear about the "issue":

Edwards: "What I'm asking is for the Congress to stand its ground, to do what it needs to do for America." "This is not about politics. It's about life and death."

Kucinich: "It is simply not credible to maintain that one opposes the war and yet continues to fund it."

[jobycom]

11. Good for them. Neither has a chance.

And I'm not sure I trust Edwards. In the early 2004 primaries he was blasting us for being anti-war, now he's saying "It's all a mistake, I really loved you all along." Reminds me too much of Wormtongue. Maybe he can win me over, but it would practically take a sign from God at this point.

Kucinich I like a lot. Not enough to vote for him, but he's been consistently against the war, he's been active in speaking against it when it wasn't popular to do so, and now. I was running around here with "Kucinich for President" in my sig line before he ever even thought of running). I tip my hat to him on his position on this bill. I hope Clinton and Obama agree with him.

But to blast Obama and Clinton, as the CNN article did, because they say they haven't prepared an answer yet, is playing into the media's--and the RNC's (same thing, really)--hands.

Bush is the real enemy. He's got us over a barrel with the veto. I hope Obama and Clinton stand up to him, I am pissed at Pelosi and Reid for not doing so, and my vote may well swing against Clinton or Obama if they support this bill. But Bush is the real enemy.