Study launched to see if Americans think prayer should be a component of medical care

[BurtWorm]

Maybe if we go back to prayer-based health care, the aging and unhealthy will start dropping like flies and there will be more medical resources for the rest of us!

:think:


http://www.religionnews.com/index.php?/pressreleases/national_study_begins_does_prayer_have_a_place_in_american_medicine/


NEW JERSEY—A ground-breaking online study was recently initiated to discover if Americans believe prayer has a place in medicine. Shannon Pierotti, a graduate student at USciences, is using a social networking basis for recruiting participants in a National survey to assess attitudes regarding the inclusion of spirituality and prayer in medical practice.

In an era of rising health care costs and struggle over reform in the United States, a key consideration may be a reintegration of the spiritual component of patient care that was lost as scientific advances progressed throughout the last century. Not finding their needs met by the current medical system, patients have increasingly turned to complementary and alternative medicine. Data from the 2002 National Health Interview Survey showed that almost half of respondents used prayer for their own health.

Numerous studies in the scientific literature have reported beneficial health effects with use of prayer throughout a wide range of physical diseases and illnesses. Further, studies have also shown that incorporation of spirituality and prayer is associated with decreased medical service utilization and costs. An AAMC report emphasized the recognition of spirituality as a "factor that contributes to health" and is found in all cultures and societies through participation in religion and/or belief in God. Yet a gap continues to exist between the medical care provided in the United States and the holistic care, including spirituality, which many patients are seeking.

Recruitment for this study is through social networking as the word is spread across communities to reach the more than 75% of Americans who use the internet. Nearly 25% of the online time of Americans is reported to be spent on social networking sites and blogs. Adults who reside in the United States are invited to go to www.prayerinmedicine.com to take the short survey and be a part of this landmark study.

Shannon's hope is that the results will "help bridge the gap that continues to persist in medical care in the United States and will lead towards improved patient care and health."


(h/t: Pharyngula)

[madokie]

1. A few years ago I was in the local VA hospital with a DVT

and when Sunday came around someone came by to see if I wanted catholic or protestants Sunday services and when I said neither you never heard so much gasping for air. I believe that might have been a turning point for my care actually, for the worse

[whathehell]

7. If it happens again...

Tell them you want to see a Zoroastrian...That oughta shake their boots!:rofl:



P.S...Nothing against Zoroastrians, BTW...I just don't imagine they have many in Oklahoma, lol.

[madokie]

20. You're right, probably not

[Lance_Boyle]

2. That's not a study, it's an online survey.

Calling this "research" is akin to citing Wikipedia in a bibliography.

Besides, any claims of the efficacy of prayer in medicine have been thoroughly debunked at this point. Have fun with you masturbatory exercise here, jeezers.

[TwilightGardener]

3. It is already part of medical care--priests, rabbis and ministers visit patients.

I was visited by a priest when I was hospitalized. Hospitals question patients about their spiritual needs when they are admitted.

[Lance_Boyle]

11. It's part of patient care, but it is decidedly non-medical.

Hospitals also offer clinical ethics consultants and counselors to patients who do not desire to be prayed at but still want someone to talk to.

[gkhouston]

14. Yes, they do. And I always say "none" even though I actually attend church

regularly. I find the question creepy and invasive. If I want pastoral care, I can call one of the other deacons or the minister at my church.

[TwilightGardener]

18. I didn't mind the priest visiting, although I hadn't requested it. Funny thing was,

he had me mistaken for another patient. I was recovering from a hysterectomy, and he came in and prayed for me and blessed me, and when he was done wished me luck with my fertility treatments. It occurred to me that he was asking God to give me a baby. I thought, well, this will be a REAL miracle if it happens without my uterus...:rofl:

[gkhouston]

21. I don't know, seems like you got the fertility treatment *you* wanted! n/t

[TwilightGardener]

25. Yes, it was a complete success! LOL.

[Old Troop]

58. I'm with you on that. I'll have someone ask my priest or a member

of my parish to come visit me. Actually, I think it's done with the best of intentions most of the time. When I was being treated for cancer, the VA had a psychologist visit me during my first chemo session. He asked me how I was doing and I said OK except for the dying part. We talked for about a half hour and it became evident that he was having trouble in his marriage. We talked about that for a while and he left. Much later I began to wonder if he had actually tricked me! While I was working with him on "his" problem, I completely forgot my fear of the chemo.

[whathehell]

4. Absurd...

Religion/spirituality are private matters, IMO and how in hell could it be "incorporated" into medicine?

I don't even want to hear the answers...too weird.:eyes:

[bluetrain]

5. ha ha ha yeah just wish your illness away

[old mark]

6. When the GOP gets through with healthcare, maybe prayer will be all there is left...nt

[enlightenment]

8. My elderly mother was in hospital recently.

She was mending, but still quite ill. The hospital staff had brought in a potty chair into the room for her use, as she couldn't quite make the toilet. One day, while she was on the chair, a woman came into the room, without knocking or announcing herself - coming around the privacy screen with so much as a by-your-leave.

As my mom sat on the chair (and I stood behind her), this woman announced that she was one of the volunteer chaplains for the hospital and she had come to provide spiritual care for my mom.

We are not a religious family - I think my mom may have some sort of belief in a higher power, but she doesn't talk about it much.

We had not requested a visit from a chaplain.

And my mother was sitting bare-arsed on a porta-potty.

We pointed out that this was not a 'good time'. The woman said, yes, I can see you are 'engaged'. Should have been the end of it, but NO.

She nattered on for a few more minutes, as both my mom and I grew increasingly incredulous at her brazen and utterly clueless behavior. But my mom is a southern lady and she raised us to be polite, so she kept her mouth shut and I refrained from physically tossing the clueless twit out of the room.

We again suggested to her that 'now' wasn't a good time and my mother added that while she appreciated the thought, she wasn't interested in receiving pastoral services.

The twit then said, okay . . . but first I'll say a quick prayer for your healing over you . . . and then launched into a full-on body-rocking, head-rolling, arms extended, hands-quivering exercise that quickly reduced both my mother and I to barely suppressed hysterical laughter. She looked like a parody of every evangelical nut-case out there - only she was serious.

After her performance, she attempted to 'lay hands' on my mother. My mom fixed her with a glare and said 'NO'. Finally getting it, the lady backed off and left.

On the up-side, the fact that she incited laughter was good for my mom.
On the down-side, the POINT of the woman's visit was as useless as tits on a bull. And uninvited.

If people want to include a spiritual component to their treatment, that's their choice - but it isn't one that should be made FOR them by ANYONE else.

And yes, I did complain to the hospital administration - who apologized. I left a prominent note on the entry to my mother's room telling the religious to go away.

[Dappleganger]

13. Wow.

I would have yanked her out of that room, pronto! Good for you that you complained, that woman had no right to push herself on you that way. Sounds like she was all about her and not patient care.

[Lance_Boyle]

52. I would add

that "If people want to include a spiritual component to their treatment, that's their choice" and they should be billed for it just like people get billed for every other thing that happens in a hospital. As it is now, the $ everyone pays for their care subsidizes the religious nonsense. Hospitals should have chaplaincy services available for those who desire it enough to pay for it. Same, IMO, for the military. Taxpayer dollars should NEVER fund godtalkers.

[enlightenment]

67. I don't disagree at all.

At this hospital, the only one employed was the head of the pastoral services program - all the twits running around the wards are volunteers. From what I could tell in my walks around the hospital during my mother's rest times, some of them travel in packs - so I guess we should be pleased we only had to deal with one.

[WinkyDink]

62. Frankly, this was a SERIOUS BREACH of SECURITY above all.

[spanone]

9. i guess it's cheaper than medical marijuana

[BurtWorm]

17. .

:spray:

[reggie the dog]

46. grow your own outside under the sun and it is free

[woo me with science]

10. Prayer, Reiki, homeopathy...

People rely on all sorts of magic when they aren't feeling well. The danger is when hospitals start labeling it as "medicine" and charging for it.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Even bright people sometimes seek comfort and spiritual help when faced with

health crises and physical suffering.

[snooper2]

22. and hopefully society will continue to get over that

over the next couple hundred years...

Might take thousands though

[whathehell]

30. and hopefully people will stop trying to dictate belief OR non-belief

to others...Duh.

It's deeds, not creeds that count.:eyes:

[whathehell]

27. I knew I wasn't going to have to wait long for the insults to start...

Have you checked the Religion forums lately?...You might notice that a LOT of Duers (like most people, actually) subscribe to some form of belief in a higher power....That being the case, why are you calling us "stupid"?...I'd say that's a "group insult" worthy of deletion.

To name just one high profile non-atheist, Thom Hartmann, self-described Christian is indisputably, one of the brightest lights on progressive politics....He's written dozens of books that have been translated into several languages, has encyclopedic knowledge and is continually named Number One progressive talker in American radio.

Go tell him he's "not bright"...I'd put his I.Q. next to yours any day.

[snooper2]

49. And a lot of people used to subscribe to the notion the Sun rotated around the earth

along with Earth being flat...

And vampire kits were sold in the 18th century...

And the pyramids were built by aliens...



You do have a point though, you can be smart in certain subjects and still believe in a fairy tale. Shit, guy used to work here was a guru with Unix and Linux, although he believed the Earth was only 6000 or so years old :rofl:

[whathehell]

50. Good try...

A lot of people used to believe that water was wet, too..duh.

I'm sorry you're so limited...Some day you may be lucky enough to have an experience that is actually NOT confirmed by science..On second thought, strict empiricists like you rarely do.

Enjoy the close mindedness!B-)

[snooper2]

51. I'm pretty sure if there is any afterlife or "gods" out there, CERN will find them

Because the LAST place they have to hide is in antimatter :)

[whathehell]

55. Who says it's "out" anywhere?

As I said..Limited thinking.B-)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

64. So Thom Hartmann is very bright and a christian.

Big deal.
That proves nothing.
Charles Darwin's wife was a Christian and he did not want to upset her religious beliefs.

Intelligence has a negative correlation with religiousity, I believe. At least in the U.S.

I'm not stopping anyone from believing what they want to believe. If someone is highly intelligent and a christian and it works for them, I am down with that.

As I said, it proves nothing that someone is intelligent and a christian. Sounds like an argument from authority.

[whathehell]

66. "Intelligence has a negative correlation with religiousity, I believe. At least in the U.S."

At least in the U.S.? -- Why would that be?...Because your only concept of "relgiousity" in this country is Fundamentalist Christianity?.

Guess what, bro?..I don't have to "prove" anything...The burnden of proof lies on the poster who made the initial statement regarding religion and "lack of brightness"...Try reading up the thread.

Oh..Sorry..The mods deleted his post. :P

[Matariki]

32. This is your idea of 'fixed'???

There are plenty of Wiccans, Pagans and so forth here. Your post is offensive and ignorant.

[whathehell]

38. Thanks.

His post IS offensive and ignorant and is certainly a "group insult" as well.

I alerted on him twice for this -- no action taken yet.

Maybe you should do the same to let the mods know that we think DU rules should apply to everyone -- Even atheists.

[whathehell]

36. People rely on all sorts of gratuitous insults when they aren't very secure.

If money was intelligence, emotional or otherwise, you'd be flat broke.:)

[tinrobot]

43. Unstressed people heal faster

If prayer or meditation can put someone in a calmer, less stressed state, then it could absolutely be of benefit.

[reggie the dog]

47. as would medical marijuana

if people want to pray i say let them pray, i really doubt that it could hurt them

[woo me with science]

54. There is a huge difference

between charging someone for something because it is a "stress reliever" and charging them for it because you claim the magic pseudoscience behind it is actually valid.

You might as well charge for pillows and cartoons.

[tinrobot]

60. Where did it say that hospitals/doctors are charging for prayer?

I read nothing of the sort in that article.

[woo me with science]

65. No, that wasn't my point.

I was continuing the point I made in my initial post, which I thought you were responding to.

Some hospitals are not only providing magical treatments, they are CHARGING for them, as in the case of Reiki. To me, hospital endorsement of magic becomes much more serious when that magic is charged for as part of medical treatment.

I never meant to imply that anyone was being charged for prayer.

[Dappleganger]

12. When we were waiting for my mother to pass in the hospital...

we'd just removed life support that Sunday morning and we were asked if we wanted a chaplain to swing by. My father said yes, and not long after that one quietly knocked at our door. It just so happened to be a former classmate of mine that I used to date back in high school, and he'd gone to seminary and I never knew it. He was so sweet and respectful, basically just hugged us all and prayed a very short prayer (mostly for us while we watched mom die). He let us keep our privacy and came back once again when mom finally passed away that evening (a very long day). I was greatful for what he did and that he wasn't overly-zealous with the "God knows what he's doing" bit because at that time it wasn't what we needed to hear. Mom was only 66.

[BurtWorm]

23. I believe chapels are standard equipment at a lot of hospitals, even non-denominational ones.

No big deal. The one time I was in a hospital for an extended stay was in Maine in 2005. I didn't see the chapel there until the day I was released, but I wish they were all like that. There were no crosses or stars or crescents anywhere. No Bibles. Behind a plain wooden lectern before several rows of plain wooden benches was a back-lit stained-glass window featuring a simple scene of nature. A quote from Einstein, I believe, ran across the top of the wall.

People have different needs in times of health crises. They should be able to have their needs met as they see fit. That's no one's business but their own. Would that everyone in America felt that way about all things personal!

[Dyler Turden]

16. I was in a hospital recently and a Pastor came into my room

asking if he could "pray with me." I politely said no (with the eerie feeling that the Doctors had given me a death sentence) and the man harrumphed and left without a howdiedoo, hope you feel better or kiss my ass.

I go to a hospital or doctor for health care. If I want religion, I would go to a church, temple or mosque.

[PufPuf23]

24. Reduction of stress is an important component of health care

Prayer is but one of many paths to stress reduction.

One would think that financial and physical access to health care would have priority over a health care system that is social darwinism and eugenic.

[Lucian]

26. The country is moving backwards.

I weep for the future.

[pipi_k]

28. I have a friend (older) who thinks prayer IS medical care.

For real.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Good idea. Maybe we can also bring back blood-letting.

:eyes:

[sakabatou]

41. And curing leprosy with the blood of two doves

[jancantor]

63. well, we have brought back leeches.

Why? Because they are effective for some forms of treatment.

[piratefish08]

31. why don't they just require prayer in lieu of preventative care??

then nobody gets sick in the first place.

thank me later. I need to go solve the deficit problem now.

[CTyankee]

33. If Republicans repeal health care reform, you'd better start praying!

cuz you'll need it...

[w8liftinglady]

34. OK,crucify me now. I make healing beads for my patients.

...either religious or secular,depending on patient preference.I try to help them channel positive healing thoughts.It helps them relax.I have seen it in action with pre-and post-op patients...literally hundreds of them.
I guess I need to drop this fantasy.

[whathehell]

35. You don't need to take the gratuitous

shit of the the atheistic totalitarians here, W8lifitinglady.

Say along with me "Go Cheney yourselves, bigots" .:hi:

[MadHound]

37. Wow, reality is starting to catch up with the boredom inspired imaginations of teenagers

How sad, let me explain.

Thirty plus years ago when I was on the high school debate squad, the resolution for my senior year concerned health care. I forget the exact wording of the resolution, but it was basically about how to make our then current health care system better.

Being seniors, my partner and I were to do some of the judging of freshman/sophomore debates at the tournament my high school sponsored. Well, it was getting late in the day, we were getting silly from a day long diet of various forms of sugar and caffeine, and when the freshman match we were supposed to judge canceled (not one, but two participants wound up so nervous that they puked themselves out of the match) we sat down and created the witch doctor case.

The witch doctor case for improving health care had numerous advantages, it would provide more equitable treatment for people across age/monetary/racial boundaries, training costs would be low, overhead costs would be low, geographical distribution of witch doctors would be more equitable, etc. etc. Within an hour, laughing and joking all the way, we came up with this joke of a case, and loved it.

Next week, when we were at a tournament, my partner and I were up against one of the top three debate teams in the state (my partner and I were also in the group, this was a monumental match that had huge ramifications for the rest of the year). We did a brief huddle, and decided, part serious, part joke, part debate strategy, to trot out the witch doctor case.

Long story short, amid much protestation, gnashing and wailing by our rivals, my partner and I won that round, handily. The reason being that our opponents simply didn't have the facts or resources to come up with an adequate defense, the best they could do was appeal to public knowledge base ("everybody knows that. . .) which in debate isn't a defense at all. We won, but we also got a stern lecture by not just our judges, but by the head of judging not to pull that shit again. Once is clever, twice is pushing the boundaries. We took our win, laughed and smirked with our teammates, and went on to win state that year.

Now, who would have thought it, thirty plus years on, reality is coming to meet our witch doctor case. Doctors? Who needs stinking doctors, we'll simply pull in witch doctors and shamans in black robes and carrying crosses to heal you through faith and divine intervention:eyes:

This isn't some academic debate bounded by NFL rules folks. More than rubies and emeralds are at stake people, lives are. This isn't a joke, it's reality.

A sad statement when reality starts to become a joke, and a joke starts to become reality.

[jwirr]

39. What do they mean a component? Paid for? There is a chaplin in

most hospitals and there are no laws against a family preacher being asked to come. It has always amazed me that people think we need prayer included by some law. There is no one in the world that can stop another from praying. It is one of those things that can be done VERY privately without anyone else even realizing it is happening.

[sakabatou]

40. Lemme tell you. I didn't get better from prayer

I owe it to modern medicine and exercise.

[Edweird]

42. As something someone could 'opt in' to if if they wanted it sure.

As something a hospital/nurse/whatever could attempt force on you against your wishes? Hell no. I'm an avowed atheist, but I hold no grudge against anyone practicing whatever faith they have as long as it ends where I begin.

[immoderate]

44. Thousands of people die every year from "spiritual healing."

It's their right I guess, except when it comes to children. Parents can be cited if they neglect children's illnesses, except in states that have a religious exemption.

In some of those states religious schools and day care centers are exempt from state health and safety regulations that apply to all other institutions. This also leads to deaths. I bet these are not counted in the study.

--imm

[JackRiddler]

45. Now that other studies have shown that prayer doesn't affect medical outcomes...

it's time to study whether "Americans" believe it to be so?

And what's the practical upshot?

Prayer is already a part of medical care, in the sense that most sick people and their families and friends are busy praying for their recovery. Insofar as it keeps up spirits, it's a good thing.

What else? Should clerics be paid by medical insurance to include prayers for the sick in their services? If they're not paid, should they pray for other patients instead?

[progressoid]

48. Apparently they needed this study to counter the one that showed it doesn't help.

Friday, March 31, 2006

Study: Prayer didn't help sick

By Jeremy Manier

Chicago Tribune

CHICAGO — Praying for a sick heart patient may feel right to people of faith, but it doesn't appear to improve the patient's health, according to a new study that is the largest ever done on the healing powers of prayer.

Indeed, researchers at the Harvard Medical School and five other U.S. medical centers found, to their bewilderment, that coronary-bypass patients who knew strangers were praying for them fared significantly worse than people who got no prayers. The team speculated that telling patients about the prayers may have caused "performance anxiety," or perhaps a fear that doctors expected the worst.

"Obviously, my colleagues were surprised by the unexpected and counterintuitive outcome," said the Rev. Dean Marek, director of chaplain services at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., and a study co-investigator.

It was a strange end for the mammoth prayer study, which cost $2.4 million and enrolled 1,802 patients who had bypass surgery. Most of the funding came from the British-based John Templeton Foundation, which supports research at the intersection of science and religion.

...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002901053_pray31.html

[TwilightGardener]

53. Well, when strangers are praying for you, you'd have to think you're in

some deep kimchee. Freaks 'em out, probably.

[social_critic]

70. God is baffled by this unreasonable attitude

God sent me a message, he says to tell you this attitude is contrary to his point of view - once you get real sick, it's better if you get a death wish and want to get it over with, because after all if you have faith you go to heaven (if you don't have faith then you better worry because you'll go to hell, but then if you don't have faith it doesn't matter because prayer doesn't work for you anyway).

Anyway, God tells me the idea is for believers to want to go to heaven, where they get to sit to his right (sorry left wingers, but that's the way the Bible puts it, unless you want to think about it in reverse, and see that it's God who sits on YOUR left).

[Zoeisright]

59. [phone]

Good study. Really stupid people who think prayer helps.

If prayer works, then why go to the doctor in the first place? Just pray your illness away! See how that works for you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. As silly as I find this

for some people it does have a critical effect. It is the mind.

And I went to bat to get a CURANDERA to do a Limpia on a patient in the ER... no, not any of us believed it would do any good, but it would do no harm either. We were shocked I tell you when the patient actually improved...

(and yes my idea I got to clean the bay)

So if a patient believes that praying to the rising sun, while holding sun flowers will help... as long as it don't do any harm...

[Odin2005]

57. FUCK NO! we don't need this Dark Ages BS!

[WinkyDink]

61. America: The Land the Enlightenment Forgot.

[Morning Dew]

68. Next up! Does Prayer Affect School Test Scores?

I prayed my way through junior high - mixed results.

[social_critic]

69. My research shows prayer is worse than useless

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4681771.stm

"The researchers found that neither therapy alone, or combined, showed any measurable treatment effect on serious cardiovascular events, hospital readmission or death.

But those given music, imagery and touch therapy had less emotional distress and had a lower death rate after six months, though this was not seen as statistically significant"

Further research is ongoing, focusing on the use of "Stairway to Heaven" as a healing therapy for marihuana users. Stay tuned.

[Codeine]

71. Fucking stupid waste of time and money.

Superstitious nonsense.