Carmakers' next problem: Generation Y (Generation Public Transit?)

[marmar]

from MSNBC:




By Allison Linn Senior writer
msnbc.com msnbc.com

updated 11/4/2010 9:41:49 AM ET 2010-11-04T13:41:49





Meet Natalie McVeigh, the auto industry’s latest headache.

At 25 years old, McVeigh lives in Denver and has two good jobs, as a research analyst and an adjunct professor of philosophy. What she doesn’t have — or want — is a car.

A confluence of events — environmental worries, a preference for gadgets over wheels and the yearslong economic doldrums — is pushing some teens and twentysomethings to opt out of what has traditionally been considered an American rite of passage: Owning a car.

“There’s kind of almost every force working against the young driver right now,” said Karl Brauer, senior analyst and editor-at-large at Edmunds.com, an automotive research website. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39970363/ns/business-autos

[Skink]

1. We've got wi fi on buses here.

[villager]

2. No wonder the GOP has been dispatched to de-fund public transit!

n/t

[hedgehog]

19. What about all the incoming GOP governors who are planning

to opt out of high speed rail?

[villager]

22. exactly!

n/t

[HughBeaumont]

3. Hmmmmmmmm, could it also be that they just don't have the MONEY to get one?

Thanks to a shit-ton of car repairs and replacements for crap appliances that break down all at the same goddamned time, I have to put off purchasing a new vehicle until the fall (mine currently has 268 thousand miles on it). I can't even imagine how the auto industry thinks someone who's earning a wage that doesn't keep up with the cost of living is going to be able to afford a new or used car.

[Marr]

12. That's more likely.

But no, let's just pretend everything's fine and those kids actually love the public bus.

It's sad how things have degraded over the last thirty years. I remember when I was a little kid, one parent working was enough. Then both had to work to maintain a nice standard of living. Then both had to work to attain the essentials. Here's one more step in the chain.

[HughBeaumont]

18. My parents were just fine with one income . . . until the Reagan administration . . .

And all of the industry/manufacturing/steel/automotive layoffs that came with it . . .

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. :think:

Luckily, my dad got out while the getting was good. With pension, HC benefits, 401k and disability, he's not doing too bad in retirement. Can't say the same for many, many others who've had unfortunate circumstances and have lost a lot of ground.

[Marr]

24. That was my experience, too.

My family was fine with the single income from my dad's mechanic paycheck through the 70's. During the 80's, our situation degraded very rapidly. A single income wasn't practical by the time Reagan's second term started, and even two incomes wasn't quite enough by the time he left.

My parents hated Reagan, and so did every adult I ever heard talk about him when he was in office. But to hear the media tell it, that motherfucker was more popular than Jesus. I guess he was-- in some crowds.

[raccoon]

28. That's what I thought was the deal. So many people now making McWages, how are they supposed to

afford a car? Even if someone GAVE them one outright, new or used, the associated costs are a real strain on somebody who doesn't make a living wage.

[hlthe2b]

32. The cost of owning a car is absolutley outrageous...

I have no choice in Colorado, but after finally opting to trade in the old 98 Subie Outback for something a bit newer and taking the time to budget all the direct and related expenses, I was damned depressed. The only good thing is that I am far more prepared to avoid costly repairs and any dramatic gas price hikes.

[madokie]

4. If I lived in a city I wouldn't own anything other than a pickup

[Romulox]

7. Pickup is the WORST vehicle to own in a largely pedestrian city.

Why? CONSTANT (and I mean CONSTANT) requests/demands from friends, your friends' family, housemates that you hate, neighbors, etc. etc. for help hauling things about. I used to drive a Ford Ranger in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and I've never been so popular before (or after).

[madokie]

37. We need one from time to time though

and when you need one nothing else will work

[Romulox]

5. Convoluted excuses for a simple reality: No jobs. No money. nt

[marmar]

6. Not necessarily true.....

None of the 20-somethings I know in places like Chicago or Toronto, even those who can afford it, has a desire to buy a car. There's a definite cultural shift.

[Romulox]

9. Check 20 somethings in LA some time, and get back to me.

:shrug:

[marmar]

10. Even in LA. No U.S. city is expanding its transit system more rapidly.

Perhaps you ought to take a ride on the LA transit system - full of 20-somethings.

[Romulox]

11. The mass transit system in LA is full of the very poor. nt

[marmar]

13. Umm, okay. I can see this is going to be a pointless, circuitous discussion.

nt

[Romulox]

14. I guess your assertions carry more weight than mine.

:shrug:

[hedgehog]

16. So, what's the overlap between 20 somethings and the very poor?

[Romulox]

20. Large. In LA, my (admittedly anecdotal) observation is that it is larger than most

Many seemingly poor young families in Los Angeles. Much more so than in metro-Detroit, in my experience.

[AngryAmish]

27. The mass transit system in Chicago is full of people who smell like pee and mutter to themselves

[kestrel91316]

31. Very poor, less poor, disabled, medically recuperating, young hipsters,

and the environmentally aware and concerned. And folks whose car is in the shop.

You obviously don't live here.

[Romulox]

33. Not *only* the very poor, just *disproportionately* the very poor

"You obviously don't live here."

I've visited enough to know that living in greater LA without a car is...suboptimal, at best. I don't doubt it can be done, but I do doubt that, given their druthers, many bus-riders in LA would prefer not to have a car. :shrug:

[kestrel91316]

40. While LA is no Paris, living here without a car is quite doable if one is

discerning about where one lives in relation to one's workplace and shopping and bus routes. I know way too many drivers who have been in serious accidents not their fault in the past couple years, and that plus the skyrocketing cost of insurance for even a perfect record driver like myself, makes me only slightly wistful for the days before my rattletrap got stolen.

[Marr]

15. Have you taken a ride on the LA transit system?

I live about a block from the blue line station. The buses and the blue line are not full of happy 20-somethings who just don't want a car.

[kestrel91316]

30. LA hasn't been expanding transit for the past couple of years, in spite

of the window dressing provided by high-profile light rail and subway projects. The service cutbacks in critical main-thoroughfare BUS routes have been astonishing, and resulted in service worse than it's been in decades, at least on the extremely busy, main street route I take.

[zeemike]

25. Actually I have a story to tell about them.

I recently took a trip on Amtrak and rode the Zephyr from LA to San Louis Obispo....that there were basically two types on the train...the 20 somethings and the old people....and many of the younger had bikes with them...there was a place on the train for bikes.
And most of the older people were more like me....just tired of the auto and the importance of getting there quicker...and just wanted a quality trip with other people.

[shanti]

29. my son, 20

lives in downtown LA and doesn't own a car :shrug:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. More like gentrification means they can't afford rent and a car

The cost of living in most cities requires ridiculous sacrifices.

[madrchsod]

8. chicago..trains, rental bicycles,and zip cars.

you can walk to every major attraction in downtown chicago.

weekend pass is 7 dollars to ride the trains all day.

[hedgehog]

34. Zip cars at train stations - best of all possible worlds, IMO!

[hedgehog]

17. What happens as the boomers age out and can't drive?

I'm only 56, but I don't like driving at night because I know I can't see as well as I used to. What about my aunt, living by herself and doing fine, except she can't drive because of macular degeneration?

[marmar]

21. Here's an interesting article about that topic:

http://www.freep.com/article/20101109/FEATURES01/101109024/1322/As-boomers-age-1-in-5-drivers-will-be-oldsters#ixzz14nP7diMB

[snooper2]

23. They are moved to a condo or assisted living in Florida?

:P

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

26. This is cool and all but alot of US cities don't have transit systems that are very good.

Medium-sized cities like Richmond, where I live, only have the bus. The problem is that cities are too sprawled out, so using a bus takes forever. You usually have to wait, catch one bus, wait, catch another, wait maybe have to catch a third. This means that the extra time and limited service area of riding a bus vs using a car puts a hard constraint on the job opportunities open to you geographically from where you live.

The other nice thing about having a car is when you need to go to a nearby city. I have friends and family in DC, Hampton Roads, Charlottesville and Raleigh. With a car it's much easier to go and visit them. I suppose you could rent a car, but you'll need it so much that you may as well buy one.

What's really going to happen is that cars will be driving themselves allowing the passengers to work, text, talk, etc. during the ride.

[tabbycat31]

35. the problem with renting a car

is that it is prohibitively expensive for drivers under 25 to rent a car. I went on a trip with a friend shortly before my 25th birthday and for me to have been the driver of the rental car it would have been $250/day as opposed to the $30 day for her. Keep in mind this was days before I turned 25.

[Historic NY]

36. Cars used to convey freedom to young people ............

I remember waiting patiently to have save up enough to get one a little newer and better than the one my brother bought. I didn't need one in high school my friends had them. Those extra months got me a 3yr old car with air conditioning. It seemed like a lot then but todays used car are a small fortune. The young have little means to pay for. A 5-7 thousand dollar car will cost thousands to insure. It comes down to value and having other stuff. If mom or dad lets them used their car once in a while thats okay. Freedom comes in other forms today that are more attractive than cars. We worked for cars they while they work for computers, cell phone gadgets & gizmo's. Stuff that connects them to their friends & the outside world. Why drive when you can reach them and the whole world with your fingers.

I know old time car enthusiasts worry that car collecting and old car restoring will become a thing of the past.

[Xithras]

38. It's generally tougher to get a license nowadays

When I was in high school, you took Drivers Ed in a school classroom, and Drivers Training was provided in a school owned car. The school car could even be used for your behind the wheel test, and in many areas the DMV workers used to come out to the schools to administer the tests. Most of us simply got our licenses at 16 or 17 because it was easy, and it was ODD to not have one.

None of that has been true for 20 years. Nowadays you have to pay for your own training and borrow a car from a friend or relative. My daughter is 17 and has no interest in driving a car. She has a lot of friends, and only ONE has her license. There's no longer any peer pressure to drive, and cars are generally seen as expensive options. As my daughter put it to me: "I work hard for my money. I don't want to waste it on gas and insurance".

This isn't an uncommon attitude. I was recently talking to a teacher at my old high school, and the subject of the old drivers ed car came up (they apparently still have it sitting in a warehouse...an old 1970's Ford station wagon with two steering wheels and dual pedals). When I was in school, there was a competition every year to get your parking pass for the student lot. There were more students driving than there were spots in the school lot, and we weren't allowed to park on the streets surrounding the school. If you didn't get your pass, you were footing it to school and leaving your car at home.

20 years later, the student population is the same size, and the student parking lot is the same size. On most school days, that lot is about 1/3rd empty. There are simply a LOT fewer kids driving.

I think that the attitude is simply being carried forward out of high school, into the college age young-adult population.

[Yavin4]

39. I Would Not Say That This Is A Highly Significant Trend, But...

it does say something. I think that the bigger reason is that in the past 10 years not enough jobs are being created to employ young people. So, many of them live at home with their parents and borrow their parents' car when they need it. It's no longer necessary to drive around to connect with your friends when tweeting will do just fine.

The bigger issue here is that the poor job creation patterns that we're seeing are slowly transforming how and what we consume. We're buying less houses, less cars, and other really big ticket items.

[TheMightyFavog]

42. Bring cool little European cars like the Fiat 500 here

The young people will eat these up...

[Greyhound]

43. K&R #5.

It is fortunate that she lives in one of the few American cities that have marginally effective mass transit systems.
:kick: & R