School bans children from putting their hands up - "alienates" less intelligent children

[The Straight Story]

School bans children from putting their hands up

A school is to ban pupils from putting up their hands when they know an answer in class – because it "alienates" less intelligent children.

Children at Ormiston Sir Stanley Matthews Academy in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs, will now have to wait to be asked questions in class, rather than putting themselves forward.

The radical new plans come after teachers at the school worked alongside teaching guru Professor Dylan Wiliam – who claims that asking children to put their hands up alienates other pupils.

Teachers will now be picking pupils at random to answer questions – to stop brighter and more outgoing children from answering too many questions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/8139893/School-bans-children-from-putting-their-hands-up.html

[hobbit709]

1. Jesus H Christ!

And what will it do for the kid that's called on and doesn't know the answer?

[Darth_Kitten]

5. That's where the dunce cap comes in....

:silly:

[hobbit709]

7. That is no longer PC.

Too bad, I can think of a lot of adults who need to be wearing one.

[guardian]

108. "I can think of a lot of adults who need to be wearing one."

Yes. And apparently most of them belong to the NEA.

[fishwax]

112. what's the NEA got to do with it?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

155. The National Endowment for the Arts?

You must uh-splain.

[JVS]

24. Awesome

:dunce:

[jberryhill]

14. Is that what "education" is to you? "Knowing the answer"

The biggest problem we have is that too many people think they "know the answer" and have never learned to think about or to discuss a damned thing.

[WolverineDG]

16. So we punish the kids who do work hard in school

so those who don't can feel better about themselves? :eyes:

dg

[jberryhill]

23. You don't even understand the question

If "education" means collecting a bunch of Trivial Pursuit answers, than learning how to discuss, weigh and critically examine alternatives through a process of dialogue, then, no, you aren't going to get the point.

Life is not a game show. Real problems are not presented in the form of multiple choice questions.

Why is it that no law school in the country functions on the basis of calling on students who raise their hands?

[hobbit709]

27. That is EXACTLY what education has become with the emphasis on testing.

I passed tests because I knew the material. Teachers today are forced to teach the test instead of the material.

[jberryhill]

31. Right - and "thinking" is lost in the process

The point of asking questions should be to draw students into a process of discussion.

If you want an answer to a question, Google it.

If you want to evaluate different answers and perspectives to illustrate the process of arriving at an answer, Google doesn't do that.

[timtom]

46. I'm not certain that's true.

I've googled on any number of occasions specifically to find differing answers or viewpoints on any particular issue/question. I usually find enough information to make an informed decision.

Not 100%, mind you, but neither is a library.

[jberryhill]

49. "to make an informed decision"

That's my point. The process by which you reach an informed decision is a learned skill.

Critical thinking - the process you apply TO information - is the most important thing we need to be teaching young people.

In the educational context, knowing "an answer" is secondary to the process by which you arrived at an answer.

It's why math teachers constantly say "show your work".

In solving for X, you might make a computational error that gets you the wrong value for X. But that's not what the teacher is looking for in trying to follow the method you used to solve for X.

Everyone who has ever studied anything being memorizing multiplication tables should be able to grasp that point.

It's the entire reason why "the question of the meaning of life, the universe and everything" in the Douglass Adams books is "42". It's a parody of the type of thinking in this thread. I'm guessing some people don't get the point of the joke.

[timtom]

61. I agree with you.

Actually, I was making a point about Google.

I was invited to participate in a colloquium on the usefulness of the internet to the university community. The internet was declared to be spurious and unreliable. I raised my hand and challenged that with the thrown gauntlet of critical thinking. I used the library comparison there, as well. These were college professors pushing this meme. I put it back on the education profession to teach critical thinking as part and parcel of their curriculum.

[jberryhill]

63. It is vital to our survival, and something I'm passionate about

The guys who managed to blow a hole in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico were BRILLIANT.

There is no question that they had advanced degrees in geology and engineering, and knew a lot of right answers in school.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

123. What if the students discuss a subject and conclude the wrong answer?

just asking

[jberryhill]

161. A classroom is not an academic Lord of the Flies

Perhaps the lesson should be guided by, oh, an adult who knows a few things.

I'm not saying that the students are voting on the answers.

But if a classroom discussion, as opposed to a Socratic dialog, reaches a wrong conclusion, then I would imagine the teacher has a pretty good idea that some of the instructional content may need review.

[MedicalAdmin]

126. Yah they were brilliant, but they weren't in charge.

The problem I have with people who blame the engineers on the platform is that they were not making the decisions - they didn't have any authority.

It's the same problem with those who blame solely teachers for educations woes. Teachers lack authority. They are not in charge.

[jberryhill]

160. Hayward - Ph.d. in geology

One of the things that seems to be fostered early on is a sense of superiority toward others that can bloom into sociopathy later on.

Take note of the comments directed in this thread to the "dumb kids" who do not seek to flaunt what they know by screaming "oooh mee!"; or the "lazy" people who didn't do well in school because, as we know, all are born and fostered in an environment that promotes academic excellence.

There is a similar attitude more representative of folks who maybe spend more time on another website, about how lazy freeloaders have nobody to blame but their inferior traits of character.

[WolverineDG]

29. So the kids who can get into the NHS can just answer Trivial Pursuit questions

while those who screw around know how to think?

Wrong.

dg

[jberryhill]

33. "Wrong."

Classic.

That's your idea of an argument.

Point made.

And typical of the know-it-all unthinking and reflexive approach to things I have encountered among my peers in the NHS, undergraduate inter-departmental scholarship program, a masters and doctoral program, and law school.

Full of facts, certain of their "right answers"... no critical thinking ability whatsoever.

Conditioned like dogs having received pats on the head to believe there is a ten word answer to everything, and it is the right one.

[ProfessorGAC]

106. Not Sure Your Goal Is Age Neutral

At some ages, learning THINGS is appropriate. Learning to think about them comes later, and learning to question them comes even moreso.

I'm not sure it's legitimate to state unequivocally, as you have, that teaching and learning is about "the stuff". (My quotes, not quoting you.)

At some stages of development, it is about "the stuff".
GAC

[jberryhill]

159. Point

Someone had referred above to the National Honor Society, so I was thinking about high school (for whom getting started on critical thinking is too late).

But yes, things like "don't pee in your pants" are more essential earlier on. Agreed.

[WolverineDG]

125. Sorry if my working my ass off in school made you feel bad about yourself

:eyes:

Ok, not really.

dg

[MedicalAdmin]

124. Exactly. Great point.

I used to be a teacher and I also asked questions at random. I didn't mind when a kid put his/her hand up, but I often didn't call on them. Those kids already get it. It's the other ones who have to be urged into an answer and more importantly the process to arrive at a correct answer as well as the analysis to evaluate if it actually is the correct answer.

It's called the socratic method. And raising your hand has nothing to do with learning. It is about regurgitating. But I used it to identify students who might know what was going on and then used their struggle to explain the process behind their answer and others reflection on that struggle to get the kids to THINK.

My understanding from chatting with lawyers is that they go through a similar process.

Many here who are freaking out should consider that often newspaper reports about anything that matters such as education and science are completely off topic, misrepresentative, stupid, miss the point, or a combination of all of these.

[October]

37. Just because a student raises their hand does not mean they are MORE intelligent

/nt

[Harry Monroe]

55. I was a class clown. I used to raise my hand just to test new material out!!

And yes, I was an "A" student, but royally pissed off the nuns in my Catholic grade school. Felt the sting of the ruler very often!!

[October]

70. There are all types of "A" students

I maintained a 4.0 throughout college -- and I'm quiet.

[jberryhill]

73. Ah, one of the dangerous ones

Yes, people like you need to be identified early so we can keep an eye on them.

[October]

177. Still waters run deep

[lightningandsnow]

88. I have a high IQ and a few anxiety disorders.

Generally, I have not been the one raising my hand in class.

[October]

178. Introverts are less valued/understood in our society

Reality shows, Fox News personalities, politicians -- everyone is an extrovert, and that's what we're used to.

Some people -- whether because of anxiety issues or introversion -- are just better in one-on-one conversations.

[hobbit709]

20. Not enough coffee this morning?

I was commenting on the premise of the guy who came up with this idea, not on education itself.

I was not a hand raiser in school, not because I didn't "know the answer" but because I learned at an early age not to be the pink monkey in a cage full of regular monkeys.

[jberryhill]

26. Not yet

I don't settle into a comfy groove until much later in the morning.

The point is that education focused on answering SAT questions is killing the development of critical thinking skills.

Classroom discussions consisting of closed questions and "right answers" are a waste of fucking time in the first place.

[timtom]

48. I so totally agree with you on all your points here.

[MedicalAdmin]

129. me too.

However the issue I have with the OP is that I generally think that freedoms should be granted and explored and not stuffled or minimized.


We should be waking our kids up and not drugging them to obey and regurgitate answers.

[silverojo]

44. In other words, you learned to pretend you were stupid?

That's not what education is about. If you're scared to raise your hand--for ANY reason--in school, you're just growing up to be a cog in the system, instead of a critical thinker who has the confidence to discuss ideas with others.

[hobbit709]

91. No I learned not to draw attention to myself.

I was way smarter than the average, I learned not to let on how much. And I've NEVER been accused of being a cog in any system. Ask my former Air Farce commander.

[silverojo]

42. Kids who raise their hands DO know how to think & debate

That's why they accept the challenge of a question.

Kids who just parrot answers don't raise their hands, because they're scared a teacher will ask a follow-up question, or ask them to elaborate on their answer.

[jberryhill]

62. Then you move the discussion around

With an open question, you can collect answers and then go through the process of evaluating them, with or without continuing to elicit participation. That "works through" the critical evaluation process.

"Why did Columbus set out on his journey?"

Answer 1. Answer 2. Answer 3.

"Okay, Jim says that Columbus started his journey to get spices and silk, and Sally says that Columbus wanted to discover and explore the unexplored. Tim the class clown says it was because he was bored. If you were Queen Isabella, which argument would be most likely to persuade you to pay for the trip?"

Now, the fact of the matter is that Columbus had his personal motivations and ambitions, but he needed to sell Isabella on paying for the project. If he based it on what HE wanted, he wouldn't have got a dime. What HE wanted to do was leverage himself into a royal position without having been born to one.

So when you ask "Why did Columbus set out on his journey", you really have "what did he want" and "what did he sell it as".

THAT is what is interesting about Columbus.

The fact that he did it in 1492 - a "right answer" - is fucking useless information.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

173. What if Queen Isabella wanted to explore the undiscovered?

I know what the answer was but the class could have an idealistic view of the age and not consider the monetary motives.

At the end fo the day the teacher must ask and the right answer should be produced.

Regurgitating 1492 doesn't necessarily disqualify question asking it merely stresses the need for more in-depth question asking.

just sayin'

[MedicalAdmin]

131. Absolute statements are always wrong.

And no, not every kid who raises their hand are ready to delve deeper. Which doesn't mean that they can't be encouraged to, but to say that every hand raiser is accepting a challenge and ready to think and debate is false. I would agree with the statement that many of them likely are.

Are you OK with that?

[jberryhill]

162. Or they have a psychological need for attention and approval

And lacking other areas in their life to obtain it, they must be acknowledged and cooed over by a teacher, or else they sulk and engage in antisocial behaviors.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

102. Let me paraphrase Thurber to you:

It is better to know some of the answers than to ask all the questions.

Encouraging children to work out what the answer is is how they *learn* to think.

[Winterblues]

103. You think about the first five Axioms in algebra while I learn what they are.

Then we will see who is best able to utilize it....

[jberryhill]

163. Al'Gebra! Is that some Muslim thing?

You take your Sharia laws out of the classroom buddy.

And while you are at it, you can take your Sharia Axioms, Theorems, Lemmas... the whole lot.

[apocalypsehow]

164. That's what "education" is to most reasonable people in a reasonable world. Period. n/t.

[Luciferous]

2. So now the "less intelligent" kids will be called on and put on the

spot when they don't know the answers... I'm sure that will make them feel much better :eyes:

[bluetrain]

3. I don't know how to respond to this. Guess I'll just wait until someone calls on me.

[knitter4democracy]

4. I can understand this, but from a different direction.

If a teacher only calls on those with hands up, it's easy for a student to disappear, to hide until the test comes. This way, a teacher has a more accurate idea of what each student knows and understands before the test.

[seabeyond]

9. and THAT is why many teachers call on the kid without raised hand, lol.

not to save ego, but to know what he/she doesnt know

[silverojo]

51. I hated when teachers did that

I knew the answers, but they'd call on some lazy jerk who didn't bother doing his/her homework. Instead of having intelligent discussion in the class, you'd waste your time listening to kids saying, "Um...uhh...."

Teachers know who's trying to slide by. They shouldn't slow down hard-working students by trying to bring these kids up to speed.

Bring back the old tradition of making lazy kids repeat a grade. Hurt their "widdle feewings" enough times, and they'll learn the value of hitting the books.

(I'm NOT saying this should be applied to children with learning disorders. They need special education. I'm referring to lazy kids who grow up to be lazy adults who do their jobs poorly.)

[knitter4democracy]

66. Or send them to me.

Those smart kids who get lazy because of being bored out of their skulls. Those kids who have a hard time with difficult concepts or don't feel safe in class to say what they really think. I'll take them.

[seabeyond]

74. +1. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. Making students repeat grades is evil.

So a student gets passing grades in all subjects except Geography. You make him repeat the entire grade including all the subjects he DID pass. Come the end of next year, he gets a passing grade in Geography but not in Science, so he gets held back AGAIN, even though he passed all subjects at least once.

Yeah. Excellent to "build character". Not.

I think schools should have a college-like system from very early on.

[MedicalAdmin]

133. Why even follow the factory model.

Why are kids grouped by age when they should be grouped by interest in and mastery of a subject.

I never got the cattle call age banding thingy. It only prepares you for factory work and not very complex factory work at that. It's an outdated idea who time is long past.



And IMHO it is just as evil to pass a kid on without some basic level of mastery of the subject matter. Social passing is a disservice. I skipped over a few grades in school but a good (and very smart friend of mine) was held back a year. Meaning that when we graduated together he was 3 years older than me and 1 year older than most everyone else. He often says that being held back was the best thing that ever happened to him. It allowed him to get his shit together and to mature enough to do the work.

I don't think we should set up a one-rule-for-every-kid situation. It's the kind of zero tolerance policy shit that gets everyone so screwed up. And yes, some principals love those kind of policies because then they never have to think or make a decision. It's lazy thinking.

[BoneDaddy]

32. Give me a break

come on now.

[KittyWampus]

50. Come on, you know that's true. Back in my school days, the cool kids never raised their hands.

It was us nerds who cared enough to answer. Then there were the misfits and slow kids...

[bemildred]

83. Yeah, the whole put your hand up thing is so authoritarian anyway.

Good teachers talk to everybody and they decide who to talk to.

[fishwax]

110. I think that's actually the motivating factor here, too

The "other kids will feel bad about themselves" justification seems to be assumption/spin. It's a brief article, but the officials at the school don't say anything like that. They say ... "Lynne Jones, assistant principal of the school said: "It means there's no hiding place for children in a lesson, there's no opt out." "

[MedicalAdmin]

134. Exactly. It's a crappy article that misses every point it could.

If that 'journalist' was an archer, s/he would have just shot a toe off.

[JackRiddler]

122. I agree, also from a different direction: hand-raising causes disruption.

I've seen teaching routinely disrupted by insistent hand-raising. Some kids have their hands up throughout and if they don't know what to say, they'll improvise something. It's training them in the art of bullshit.

On the whole it's better for teachers to call on students and may help in keeping them all more attentive. In my idea of an ideal classroom, I think Socratic questions and brainstorming are good, and those should be posed with call-outs and conversation allowed, with the teacher moderating to make sure one student talks at a time. Otherwise the teacher should call on students without hand-raising. A typical question should be encouraging synthetic thinking, along the lines of, "X, can you tell us what was in the reading," or "Y, can you give us a review of the last lesson." (A little help is usually required...)

[Incitatus]

184. I thought that's why they have quizzes.

It counts for a smaller portion of your grade and can let the student and teacher know what they need to learn, before the test.

[knitter4democracy]

198. Quizzes everyday lose their power.

If you want a daily check, just asking students helps quite a bit. Daily quizzes often start hurting their grade (even with small numbers), and that's not the point.

[WhiteTara]

6. Welcome to the Monkey House

by Kurt Vonnegut. Probably written in the mid 70s.

The man was prophetic. He called them Equalizers. The best must be made to be no better than the worst.

[Greyhound]

19. And who better to fill the position of Handicapper General than Caribou Barbie? n/t

[QC]

41. Diana Moon Glampers would be so proud of this school! n/t

[MedicalAdmin]

136. I had to look that up. Moon Glampers . ...

hadn't read that story in about 30 years. That was a great story. Love me some Kurt V.


And yo are wrong. Reread the story paying particular attention to what the school actually said about the program. What they are eliminating is hand raising as a disctraction, social construct, etc. and then replacing it with a versiion of the socratic method where everyone is called upon and everyone must participate.

I did the same thing when I was a teacher. Hand raisers can be, but aren't always contributing to higher order thinking. And those who don't raise their hands are often deep thinkers or kids who need help. If you don't identify them, you can't help them.

[silverojo]

52. You're so right

God forbid that kids become intelligent adults who might question the B.S. being fed to them.

[gmoney]

99. "Harrison Bergeron" to be exact

There is something of an Ayn Rand perspective to that story, that the big gummint is squelching all individual excellence for "the common good."

[proteus_lives]

186. I thought of that too.

[seabeyond]

8. hm... highlight the less intelligent kids to deer in headlight, letting class know out loud they

do NOT know the answer.

there is that less than intelligent thinking.

and that is the easy one in all this

[MadHound]

10. Well, frankly, any decent teacher will be calling on all of their students to answer questions

This is how you informally evaluate how your students are doing. Sure, you can call for answers, but don't just call on the ones with their hands up, but also the ones that don't have their hands up. Thus you get an idea of how all of your students are learning, and you don't all certain students from fading into the woodwork at the back of the classroom.

[Kaleva]

11. I liked it when the smart kids got all the attention

Never did care to be called upon for an answer and be made to look like a dumbass in front of the whole class.

[jberryhill]

12. That is how every law school functions

The point is not "who knows the answer" but to engage the student in a dialogue about "how do you get to the answer".

Doing this earlier may help students to understand that a discussion is not a contest about "who is right and who is wrong", but "how do we explore this subject to arrive at conclusions".

Frankly, some of the things that make DU an unpleasant place is a lack of ability to discuss, consider and weigh different aspects of a subject.

In an actual instructional dialog, calling on someone who thinks they "know the answer" is not a productive exercise in the first place.

The most important thing that can be taught right now is not "knowing stuff", but critical thinking about stuff.

If I want to know an answer to a simple question, there is Google. I don't have to know jack shit.

But what I do have to know how to do is how to evaluate and weigh answers through a process of critical thinking ABOUT those answers.

Education should not be collecting a grab bag of facts.

What is a better question:

1. When did Columbus first sail to the Americas?

2. If you were Columbus, what things would you say to persuade Isabella to pay for your journey?

Knowing "1492" as the "right answer" to question one is fucking worthless.

Question 2 invites a variety of ideas, and then one can weigh them to discuss things like "what was Columbus trying to accomplish" and "what did he need to do in order to get backing to accomplish it".

There is no shortage of "right answers" to things. We don't need a crop of young people who think they know a bunch of right answers.

What we desperately need is a crop of young people who can evaluate other people's proposed "right answers" to questions that haven't been asked yet, and don't have clear answers.

The reactions to this story, IMHO, are pretty depressing in terms of what people think education should be all about.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Good stuff, I hope everybody reads your post..

My favorite line "a discussion is not a contest about "who is right and who is wrong", but "how do we explore this subject to arrive at conclusions".

There is wisdom worthy of DU medidtations in that line.

[jberryhill]

45. Why should anyone read what anyone else has to say?

If you know the right answer, you are right. Whether someone has a reasoned argument to the contrary, or a different take on a question, is irrelevant to the rightness of your answer. You do not need to make an argument, introduce alternative facts, raise a challenging hypothetical, question unexamined assumptions, or any of that stuff.

All you have to do is strain to reach the ceiling and say, "Pick Meeee! Pick Meeee! Oooh! Oooh! I know that one!"

[silverojo]

60. Enough about law school, already

It's the reason we have so many utterly incompetent lawyers. Every lawyer I've ever known is a Republican, and since facts have a liberal bias, that tells you all you need to know about lawyers.

As for your scenario about Columbus, there's a third aspect you've neglected to mention: It's EQUALLY important to understand the what and the why. In adult life, if you blather on about why you think Columbus made his voyage--yet don't know the simple answer of when it took place--you sound like a pseudo-intellectual who is sloppy about facts...because that's what you really are.

Instead of thinking about law school, think about journalism. That's where you'll find your real critical thinking, because people are asking who, what, where, when, why, and how. Emphasizing one over the other, as you're doing, is like trying to learn to read without learning the alphabet.

I respect what you're trying to say, just pointing out that you're only saying part of what needs to be said. :)

[jberryhill]

64. "Every lawyer I've ever known is a Republican"

Ever heard of those two fellers named Barack Obama and Joe Biden?

Maybe some other names will ring a bell...

Bill Clinton?

Hillary Clinton?

Do you notice that we've had Republican presidents lately who were:

An actor
An oil executive
A dipshit

And Democratic presidents who were:

A nuclear engineer
A lawyer
A lawyer

Right now we have a president who is a lawyer, a vice president who is a lawyer, a secretary of state who is a lawyer, and a senate majority leader who is a lawyer.

They are all Democrats.

The soon to be Republican house speaker is a bartender.

The weird thing about law school is watching high academic achievers, who have never had to think about how to think, crash and burn, because nobody cares about "right answers" but how you arrive at them.

[hobbit709]

96. I personally know about a dozen lawyers.

Only one is a Republican, and I think she is because of her husband.

[jberryhill]

97. Is it contagious?

Until there is a cure, there is hope.

[hobbit709]

98. Don't know, her husband used to be an acidhead, now he's a raving teabagger.

[MedicalAdmin]

142. Have her get here husband tested for heavy metals.

Find a doc from the institute of functional medicine. He likely has a lot of heavy metals stored in his fat cells (and what type of cells make up most of the brains matter students? That's right, it's fat!).

So his teabaggery may just be caused by the same type of heavy metal buildups that we also see in Alheimer's patients (aluminum has been found in all Alz. pts. in excessive levels. Is there a causal link? Not yet, but there is a growning body of evidence).

Just sayin' - get his brain flushed a few times and he might become sane again.

[hobbit709]

153. Technically aluminum is not a heavy metal.

But I doubt that's the problem. He started hanging ot with some of the antitaxers and went from there. Hell I did more acid than he did and I'm still just as leftist as I was 45 years ago.

[MedicalAdmin]

193. You are technically correct.

However medically it is often tested with a series of actual heavy metals and simply called a heavy metal test. While not technically correct it is useful shorthand.

And your genetics and ability to process and eliminate "heavy" metals are not identical (well, unless they are which is statistically negligible) to captian teabag. It is possible that what is wrong with this twit is more than hanging out with the wrong people. He could have a condition that is treatable and curable. For your friends sake suggest it. What could it hurt to do so?

[Hosnon]

104. Members of the legal profession tend to be more liberal than the general population.

I practice in a red city in a red state, and most of the attorneys lean left.

[jberryhill]

165. Shhhh....

Brown v. Board, Roe v. Wade, Loving v. Virginia - all the work of right wingers, apparently.

[MedicalAdmin]

140. Journalism is where you find real critical thinking.

You must be thinking of another country because the journalists in the US suck. They are good at opinion, but that is all. I haven't seen decent news from any US source since before Raygun. Puhlease - try again.

As for lawyers being republican. Well, isn't it great that we can take your small statistical sampling and generalize it to all lawyers. It's that just so logical. Yah. No. Big fail. Epic Fail. Freeper level fail.

You do know that the trail lawyers association always gives to liberal causes and liberal candidates, don't you? Nope. Guess not.

[gulliver]

82. +1

[ProgressiveProfessor]

101. the problem is that primary schools are not law schools

There are topics where there are different views, critical thinking is important, etc. They are mostly when you get a little older. However, in primary schools, there is a lot more factual education. Basic math, spelling, grammar, those kind of things. Moreover it is during your younger years that you gain the basic knowledge and tools that supports critical thinking etc later on. Its hard to compare various political thinkers if you can't read adequately. Its hard to argue economic approaches if you don't have some level of math skills.

I agree with those who say that we are testing and not teaching, especially at the higher grades. But to get back to the OP, not having students raise their hands has nothing to do with that.

[jberryhill]

169. "Ormiston Sir Stanley Matthews Academy in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs"

Quite frankly, I had not thought that a school with a name like that was a primary school.

Jaysus, the graduating question must be "WTF is the name of this school?"

*I* wouldn't raise my hand to attempt that one if it wasn't written on my arm.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. That was well said and insightful. n/t

[MedicalAdmin]

139. Exactly.

It seems likely that this is a good school working hard to become even better. They are actually putting procedures in place to encourage discussion. That is a good thing.

Too many people, even here on DU, take their own "bad" expeeriences and generalize them to every kid in every school in the country. That is unfair and truly not the type of thinking I expect to find here on DU.

[apocalypsehow]

171. This isn't law school we're talking about here, "counselor" (*rollseyes*).

"We don't need a crop of young people who think they know a bunch of right answers"

And it's precisely this mentality that places the United States in the last rank of educational proficiency anywhere in the industrialized world. If one could sum up what's wrong with America's education system, one could not do any better than to point to that sentence in your reply and say "here's your problem, right here."

Unfortunately, per the article in the OP, it looks like that mentality is being exported to the U.K.

[MadHound]

192. I agree with you, but only up to a point

This is, after all, kids we're talking about, in grades K-12 we're talking about. The younger ones probably aren't developmentally ready to start answering questions that involve analysis (see Bloom's Taxonomy for further explanation). Not to mention that people need a basic time line in their heads when it comes to history in order to be successful in later analysis questions such as the one you propose.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask questions that involve analysis and evaluation, we should. But that should occur slowly and at the proper stage of a child's intellectual development. Until that point, we do need to fill in a basic map of what happened so that children can have that basic knowledge in order to engage in analysis and evaluation.

Teaching young kids, even kids in high school, is nothing like teaching law students. What works best for law students simply doesn't work for pre-college students. Their cognitive functions aren't developed yet, thus you have approach these students in a manner that they can relate.

Furthermore, the notion that students can use Google to answer such simple questions is simply making our kids dependent upon a media that is often times inaccurate. Furthermore, for students to progress towards analysis and evaluation, they have to have the basic fact, such as dates and places, already in place in their heads. After all, in both college and in real life, they aren't going to allow you to look up such basic answers on Google, since it is assumed that you already have such basic information in your head.

What I find depressing is how many non-educators around here assume that they just know how to best teach our children, despite never having taken any basic courses in education or even stepping foot in a classroom. The assumption that we should teach young children like we teach post grad college students is laughable on the face of it, and exemplifies the problems that teachers face in relation to the public.

[leveymg]

13. No more hiding behind all those hands. Damn, there goes a major tactic for the chronically lazy.

Gotta rethink those avoidance strategies, now. :+

[WolverineDG]

15. Oh FFS

first we have to do away with the NHS because the students who don't qualify might get their feelings hurt. :eyes: Then, we have to do away with the salutatorian & valedictorian because, again, the students who don't get high enough grades will get their feelings hurt. Never mind that the students actually work their asses off to get good grades & do well in school----oh no! We must do what we can to make those who screw around feel better about themselves so they don't become axe murderers or some stupid thing like that.

dg

[ejpoeta]

25. serial killers are usually highly intelligent. just sayin.

instead of worrying about hurt feelings, perhaps we should address the reasons why some do better than others. different ways of learning. i excelled in school, but there were others who weren't book smart but were still intelligent. some schools seem to be addressing the different types of learning. i tend to ascribe to the idea that teachers generally know what they are doing and know their students well enough to address whether to call on them in class if they raise their hand or not. some kids will benefit from being called on in class or the possibility. i don't know any teachers who just call on the kids with their hands raised. some kids would shrink and wither if called on in class.

[silverojo]

65. Teachers need to learn, more than their students do

As a visual-spatial learner, my teachers were woefully unequipped to deal with me, even though I was a high-honors student. Most teachers write notes and lists on the board while teaching, which does nothing to help kids who don't learn that way.

I spent most of my childhood at the library, where I researched the topics the teachers were discussing, because I couldn't get a full grasp of them. I didn't realize it, but I was seeking out the charts, graphs, and other visual presentations that I needed to learn more quickly.

If you were to talk to a teacher about this, the unanimous response would be, "But this is the way we're taught to teach." They would follow this up with a complaint about not wanting to accomodate kids who learn differently, because they're already "overworked". Nine months a year. Uh-huh. I ended up having to work nights and weekends for twelve months a year (at minimum wage, of course) to go to a Catholic school during my teens, because its teachers were more concerned about education than complaining. So much so, that all my teachers are still there, except for the ones who have passed away. And believe me, they're not there for the salary--public school teachers are paid better.

These are the teachers I salute. :patriot:

[ejpoeta]

85. our school uses different ways of teaching and tests the kids to see what type of learning they do.

whether they actually utilize this information i am not sure. at least in elementary school i believe they employ different ways of teaching to encompass the different ways of learning. i know when i was in school they taught one way and if that wasn't the way you learned tough luck for you.... i don't know if they knew about different types of learning.

i am not going to blame teachers. most of them go into teaching not for the money and they don't get paid a lot for how much they have to do. i think what happens is they are beaten by the system. they are forced to teach to a test. you can blame the teachers all you want but they don't have a lot of latitude. they have rules and guidelines put in place by the school system. by the way, private schools have the luxury of less students per teacher as well. i went to catholic school myself and the education was better, but then again, there were like 13 kids in my class vs 25 in the public school.

[MedicalAdmin]

143. Reread the OP with an emphasis on reading comprehension.

That is NOT what the linked story is talking about. It is also a highly flawed and inflamatory article.

[WolverineDG]

154. Oh I'm sorry, I'm just a dummy who can only answer Trivial Pursuit questions

:eyes:

It's just more "make every student dumb" PC bull shit.

dg

[MedicalAdmin]

194. Well you have me there. I was wrong but I was also rushed.

Not an excuse but I offer it as an explanation in the hopes that you will accept my apology.

Having said that, what is being instituted there is probably just a way to get the entire school past the habit of raising hands which is very much a chalk and talk strategy, which research clearly and overwhelmingly shows is the least effective way to teach.

Look at it this way, we could either be wrong, but if I am right, then this will benefit the kids and if you are right then nothing will change. From a risk management point of view, we have nothing to lose by assuming the best rather than the worst.

[apocalypsehow]

172. Is that all yah got, personal attacks about "reading comprehension"? Thin gruel, that.

:eyes:

[HEyHEY]

17. Best thing about this is that it keeps the kids on their toes.

[JVS]

54. Calling on a student who doesn't know their shit isn't nearly as gratifying as some might think.

It doesn't take long to be able to read their faces and know how to spot someone who is clueless and avoid the unpleasant scene where they stammer and waste the whole class' time.

[HEyHEY]

67. Make the OTHER kids do push-ups until the kid gets the right answer

[JVS]

69. That way they'll have better muscles with which to bully the dumbass

[HEyHEY]

79. perfect!

[demodonkey]

18. Has anyone considered how damaging this will be to the 'brighter' children?

Being forced day after day to sit there silently, knowing the answers while less intellectually endowed struggle along to get them can be near-torture.

Please don't laugh, or blow this comment off. This is a real problem, with various life-affecting consequences possible for any child experiencing it.

I know this first-hand.

Being 'gifted' can be a blessing but in many ways it is a curse.

[Greyhound]

22. Speaking as one of the 'gifted', when do I see these so-called blessings?

Perhaps a better idea would be to stop trying to treat people like machines and recognize that we are all individuals.

I see this same fallacy applied to technology, instead of creating flexible systems to accommodate users, we try to force the individual to conform to the system and then wonder why the system doesn't live up to its predicted expectations.

[timtom]

57. Brilliant point!

Completely in line with my views on organizational behavior! (I'm Deming-oriented with a touch of Hawthorne experiments thrown in.)

[silverojo]

78. LOL, I know how you feel

And you're right about the way teaching methods and technology stifle individuality.

[MedicalAdmin]

144. NO they don't stiffle them.

Incorrect application of those diagnostic tools stiffles them. People stiffle them.

And BTW, I agree with some of your points, just not with the ones about how you didn't enjoy school and then you generalize that to mean that every school everywhere for all time is exactly like what you experienced years ago. That's just irrational (non connotative meaning).

[silverojo]

75. I had the same problem!

One time, I got so PO'ed, that I talked to the teacher about it after class. I told her that if my hard work meant so little to her, then I was going to focus more on my other subjects, for the teachers who appreciated my efforts. She tried to mollify me with the old line of having to help the slower students. So I told her that I had struggles with learning, too--that's what the city library was for, and if I could use its resources, so could the "slower" kids. BTW, I knew a lot of those kids, and they weren't stupid at all. They just valued TV and socializing over studying, and then got PO'ed when I wouldn't let them copy my homework. After I pointed all this out to my teacher, let's just say she gained a little more respect for me, and lost a lot of respect for them. ;)

To address something else you said, being gifted is indeed a curse, as well as a blessing. I also had the problem of teachers thinking I didn't need help in class. Another gifted student and I would literally climb on our desks and shout our teacher's name, and he would never come over and help us. My folks went to the parent-teacher meeting and expressed their concern, and what was his answer? "They don't need my help." Yeah, right, being gifted means that you pick up knowledge from the sky with magical antennae.

Another thing that's really damaging to gifted kids is how they treat you like a brain, and nothing more. When I was 9, I decided that I wanted to be a writer, which I became later in life. My teachers all but gave up on me, because they thought nobody can make it in writing, and I was wasting my potential. They wanted me to go down the math/science route, which I hated.

Meanwhile, teachers at my Catholic high school encouraged me. One English teacher was a writer, herself, and gave me a lot of good advice. I still have a creative writing paper I wrote in 10th grade, upon which another teacher wrote that she thought I had a flair for writing, and should do it for a living. :)

[jberryhill]

81. Well, if you know all the answers, I might as well just go watch TV

That's something of a rational choice for the less gifted, no?

I didn't join the soccer team, because there were others much better at playing soccer.

It's a rational choice.

Yes, I could have spent more of my time developing soccer skills and maybe improving enough to join the team and spend a season sitting on a bench, but why work at something for which, by all feedback indications I get, I don't have the talent for?

The engineers, geologists and managers that run BP - brilliant motherfuckers, every one of them. Tony Hayward has a doctorate in geology.

I'll bet he was a gifted student all his life.

Never developed much respect or concern for the dullards with whom he has to share the planet, though.

Some jerkoff liberal with a bachelors degree in art history, thinks they can tell him to run a technologically advanced multi-national billion dollar enterprise, I'll bet. Just who do these people think they are, really?

[fishwax]

115. that happens in a "hand-raising" system too

Not all the kids who raise their hands actually know the answer. Not all the kids not raising their hands are less intelligent.

[no_hypocrisy]

21. And how alienated will a student feel if a teacher "randomly" calls on him/her, knowing that

student likely doesn't know the answer?

[MedicalAdmin]

145. Good teachers don't do this.

As a former teacher I can tell you that I didn't call on kids who I knew, from body language, history, etc. didn't have a clue. I would rather go by after the lesson intro and chat with them for a minute or two to see how they were doing.

Not all teachers are sadistic beasts, y'know?

[LWolf]

28. While "banning" students from raising their hands is ridiculous,

calling repeatedly on those who raise their hands isn't good practice in the classroom.

It isn't "alienating." It's non-engagement. When a teacher only calls on those who raise their hands, the discussion quickly gets limited to a few students and the teacher, with the rest sitting passively, allowing the discussion to flow past them. That's not good teaching.

Good teaching includes a system to call on students randomly, so that all know they are part of the discussion and are expected to participate, and may be called on at any time...without being singled out by the teacher (random.)

Good teaching also includes crafting questions that invite students, and invite teachers to support their participation, such as:

"What do you remember about?"

"What do you think about?"

"How do you think...?"

Questions that ask them what they think don't have "wrong" answers; they don't have to feel intimidated by them.

Good teaching also includes remaining neutral, supporting what is said, and withholding individual praise and correction after each response in favor of a summation of what the teacher heard the students share at the end of the discussion, reinforcing the good points, adding some, and correcting misunderstandings without singling anyone out.

It all depends on what's under discussion and what questions have been asked. If I ask, after giving directions, "what questions do you have about this?" I'm obviously going to call on those who raise their hands, not those who have no questions. If we are having a vigorous discussion and everyone wants to talk at the same time, I'm going to make them raise their hands and wait their turns...middle schoolers in particular tend to blurt whatever is in their head immediately, and have to be "trained" to wait their turns to speak.

[jberryhill]

34. Bingo - The overwhelming majority of folks in this thread have no idea what you just said /nt

[lunatica]

43. Good teachers have always done this. Maybe it's the teachers who need to be taught

Why make the bright students the victims by banning their obvious involvement? Teaching to the lowest common denominator isn't going to make the disinterested suddenly get smarter and more engaged. It's just going to alienate those who want to learn.

[LWolf]

68. Good teachers have always done which?

What should they be taught?

Can you clarify for me?

[jberryhill]

107. Someone raising their hand to answer - isn't seeking to "learn"

They are competing to demonstrate that they already know "the answers".

How does that make them "learn" a damned thing?

[lunatica]

158. kids raise their hands because they think they know the answer

to what the teacher is asking. That's all part of "learning".

[jberryhill]

170. I find that to be a very puzzling statement

If I think I know the answer, then the "learning" must have taken place at some earlier point in time than when I raised my hand to spit back something I knew.

Unless there is some theory by which children are born knowing everything, and this is unlocked by asking them to tell us what they know.

[silverojo]

87. This is why adults are sheeple

You're admitting that you're dummying down the questions so that there's no wrong answer, and students aren't "intimidated" by them.

By all means, don't teach kids to stand up for their beliefs. Don't teach them that saying the wrong answer isn't the end of the world. You're killing these kids with kindness.

Do you know where crippling perfectionism starts? From the notion that making a mistake is an embarrassment. Kids need to have a place where they can make a mistake, yet get reassurance that it's okay, because this is how you learn. That's your job. Right now, you're not teaching kids how to have a healthy attitude about making mistakes and growing from them.

What's going to happen to these poor kids when they're out in the working world? Nobody's going to dummy down the discussion at a board meeting for them. Nobody's going to change their policies and methods to be less intimidating. You need to teach these kids to grow a spine, and you're not doing it.

Apparently, a lot of teachers have failed before you, because middle schoolers are long since past the age of needing to be taught to raise their hands, instead of blurting out answers.

You sound like the speech teacher my aunt had. This woman would let kids like her give their speeches by turning their backs on the class and saying them to the teacher. This was a class that should have been used to help my aunt overcome her shyness, not coddle her. When I had similar trouble in speech class, my teacher gave me tips on how to boost my confidence. Hint: It had nothing to do with coddling me, or pretending I wasn't making mistakes.

You are precisely the kind of teacher who prompted me to get an exhausting, menial job, in order to go to another school and get a better education. Let me tell you, from personal experience, there are smart kids in your class who resent you with every fiber of their being, because you're more concerned about coddling lazy kids than appreciating the hard-working ones.

[MedicalAdmin]

146. Dude. On this subject...

... you've got some issues.

[BoneDaddy]

30. We need to move from coddling to resiliency skills

Thank god the counseling field is recognizing that this approach to children that began in the 80's centered around self esteem is changing. Yes, self esteem is important but it is important because it came from a sense of accomplishment and challenge, not because it was given to you wrapped in cotten.

We are in no way preparing youth by insulating them from their feelings. I think an approach that gives students an opportunity to express those feelings and encourages them to work through uncomfortable emotions is what causes lasting effective change.

This is ridiculous.

[silverojo]

90. Very, very true - n/t

[October]

35. I don't like the premise that the kids who don't raise their hands are less intelligent

I think the wording is clumsy and insulting.

This is a society that values extroverts (Palin, O'Reilly, etc.) while many quieter students/people are marginalized.



Edited for typo.

[HEyHEY]

38. Yeah, I ALWAYS put my hand up and maybe got one thing right in 12 years.

[jberryhill]

39. You see it here on DU every day

"I'm right, you're wrong" - with no fucking clue how to make an actual argument, what qualifications or limitations might apply, and the concept of considering alternatives is totally alien.

[silverojo]

94. Schools should teach you to speak up

Being quiet is one thing--I'm a quiet person. But that's no excuse for not taking steps to learn how to function in society.

You're being a bit unreasonable. The world can't stop turning and say, "Hello, shy little darling, what would you like to say today?"

I'm very shy, but I know that I can't expect the world to change for me. There are times it takes me an hour to dredge up the courage just to make a phone call, that's how shy I am. However, I know that shyness is a problem that needs to be conquered, so I work hard to do so, every day.

[fishwax]

118. that's not likely to happen, though, if kids know they can simply hide by not raising their hand

[lunatica]

36. Intelligent children are now banned

The apologist in this thread are telling us that the lowest common denominator is not the goal with these people. Glorifying the lesser achievers will surely work wonders.

[JVS]

47. Kids who don't raise their hands are either dunces who don't know their lessons...

or they are students who do know the lessons but are holding out and not doing their duty to maintain an active learning environment. Both of these behaviors are to be strongly discouraged.

[Harry Monroe]

53. Oh fa Chrissakes!!

[Baclava]

56. Wouldn't it would make the dumb kids feel worse when they get called on and don't know?

How much is 6+6?

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"I dunno"

"12"?


Brilliant!

[jberryhill]

71. Because we might lose our calculators

Teaching kids to replicate what machines can do is not a useful thing for the challenges we face.

Give me the right answer to this question:

"Is 20 billion gallons a lot of oil?"

[MedicalAdmin]

149. Yes.

Unless it's no.


It's a lot to spill. It' not a lot in terms of the US consumption of it.

[MedicalAdmin]

148. Only is you are ONLY interested in an answer.

ANd not the underlying principles, structure, justification (and other higher order thinking) etc.

My god man, No teacher worth anything would keep asking just to find a simple answer. After about 2 or 3 "I dunno" the writing is on the wall and you need to go back and root out what the class isn't getting.

Bad example even if it was coming from a place of compassion.

[Obamanaut]

58. And the 'F" grade is going away in some schools as well. We certainly

don't want to hurt little Johnny's feelings if he hasn't prepared and doesn't know the information.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/Virginia-school-eliminates-the-F-Grade-108476599.html

[eridani]

189. This is what comes of thinking of education as a business with customers

You don't want to piss off customers by giving them bad grades.

[MineralMan]

59. Interesting. When I was in grammar school, my hand was up

a lot. I did know the answers. Then, in fourth grade, my teacher had me stay after the class was dismissed. She told me that she knew that I always knew the answers, but that I didn't need to always raise my hand when she asked questions of the class, because that might inhibit other students from raising theirs. I got what she was saying and stopped doing it. The point was that she knew already that I'd know the answer, so I wasn't proving anything to her.

It was an interesting lesson for a 9-year-old. A good one, too.

[snooper2]

72. I wonder how many posters here missed the fact that this is in the UK

hands UP!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Javaman]

93. Shhhh...

can't buzz kill the knee jerk outrage for the day!

[fishwax]

119. and that it's in an academy, which is something akin to a charter school

:rofl:

[donco6]

137. I did.

Straight Story is a notorious public school basher and will post something like this every single day. He phrases his titles purposely to raise the most stink. And all because his kids are home-schooled. So he's got to make sure all schools are "horrible."

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. You beat me to it

Sure gets tiring, eh?

[donco6]

181. Yep. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

180. It's also ridiculous

Kids raise their hands every day in every classroom in the world not because they know the answer but because they want approval or recognition from the teacher. I'd bet my salary that at least one of those hand raisers in every class doesn't have a clue as to what the right answer is.

[Obamanaut]

191. Here's one in Virginia where the "F" grade is being replaced. We

don't want little Johnny to have his feelings hurt - on either side of the Atlantic.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/Virginia-school-eliminates-the-F-Grade-108476599.html

[dsc]

76. I do that on occassion in my classes

I will say today is a random day and I use the calculator to randomly choose who will answer questions. Each kid has a number and the calc randomly picks numbers. But I will sometimes couple it with help a brother out where if the answerer struggles someone can help a brother out. In teaching it is important to ensure everyone a chance to participate.

[JoePhilly]

175. Now THAT I like ... my favorite teachers always "mixed it up" ...

Sometimes you raised your hand.

Sometimes we had "teams".

Sometimes, the teachers picked multiple kids "at random", and then had each write their answer, and then share it to see which of them got it right. Or which did the best job of explaining how they did it, so that other kids could hear a peer's thought process.

And some times ... the scariest of all ... your name was called "at random" and you had to come to the front of the room.

I recall in one math class how the teacher would call as many as 8 kids to the 2 blackboards on which they each did the same problem. And then the class discussed which version of the problem was "best" ... some smart kids could do it in their head, so their answer might be just the answer, others worked out every step. Some collapsed steps where they could do certain parts in their head.

The learning process includes both getting the right answer and knowing HOW you get it.

[madrchsod]

77. i know pick me!... pick me!..PLEASE PICK ME!

[Odin2005]

80. This is BS!

:grr:

[JackRiddler]

128. If you mean the way the Telegraph has presented it, then yes, it's bullshit.

[roody]

84. I've been doing that for years.

I don't need an administrator to tell me how to teach. It holds all students accountable to listen and participate. I don't necessarily ask for an answer. I ask them what they thing about it.

[jberryhill]

89. "I ask them what they think about it"

Yay!

[lightningandsnow]

86. Having social anxiety does not make one stupid.

I spent the first half of grade 12 English never speaking in class.

I'm talking not uttering a word in front of my peers because I was sure they would laugh at me.

This happened to me in several classes. Part of it was a result of my own mental imbalances, and part of it was from teachers who used humiliation as a teaching method. Which I'm sure a lot of DUers support, because people like me are lazy and stupid anyway, aren't we?

Not talking in class is not a sign of stupidity. From my experience, it's more a sign of anxiety.

[jberryhill]

92. But only the loudest and most certain people are right about things

Quiet and reflective people are weak, indecisive, and have no spine.

The world needs more confident, assertive extroverts who view every question as a matter of "I'm right and you are wrong."

Ummm...

[pipi_k]

117. I see it happened to you, too....

It was bad enough with the more "kindly" teachers, but with the nasty asshole teachers it was pure HELL.

Not happy with the fact that they had just called on a kid who didn't seem to know the answer (although I often did, but was scared shitless), some of these idiots would then say something sarcastic or snotty...essentially shaming me in front of the entire class.

Way to go, assholes.

Take a kid who's already damaged and twist the knife some more.


Fortunately, teachers like that were few and far between. I only really knew three or four during my K - 12 years. I'd love to slap the shit out of them now, even all these years later.

[rug]

95. They should do this in GD. Mods randomly select who can reply to a post.

[pipi_k]

120. Hahahahaha!!!.... I wonder though...

Does that mean we'd actually have to be sitting in front of our computers in order for them to see us raising our hands?


:7

[gkhouston]

121. LOL, and some selections are more random than others.

:rofl:

[Renew Deal]

141. lol

:rofl:

[DearAbby]

100. But sending notes home to your parents

to inform them you are fat/obese isn't alienating. Another topic/thread.


I must have been seen as being ignorant as a rock, I hardly ever raised my hand. I would had rather blended into the wall in the back of the class room, than to draw more attention to myself. School was pretty much a hell. I paid attention, took notes, turned in my homework...raised my hand? Hell no.

[Xithras]

111. This is one of the reasons that I love having "clickers" in my classroom.

Nobody needs to raise their hand. When I'm lecturing on a topic and want to move on, I can simply ask the students if they've all got it, or pose a question with a multiple choice answer and ask them all to respond to it. Based on their responses, I can determine whether they understand it sufficiently to allow me to move on, or whether I need to spend more time on the subject. I also allows me to identify specific students in the class who are having trouble with the material, without forcing them to reveal themselves to their fellow students, or to awkwardly ask me for help after class.

Clickers are an awesome technology that is being rapidly adopted at the college and university level. We REALLY need to get it into the K-12 classrooms as well. It's a game changer.

[The Straight Story]

116. They have them in some k-12 areas (I work in the education industry)

I think they are great but hate supporting them :)

[MedicalAdmin]

150. Clickers? Are they like this?

[Xithras]

157. LOL! No, more like this...

They start like that, and scale all the way up to fancy touchscreen models. The ones in my class look that that, but with some extra number buttons and an "I Understand" button.

It's a great way for a teacher to gauge student learning in real time, to perform spot quizzes during lectures to make sure everyone is following along, and to identify students who are having problems. It's also a great way to keep the class moving if they understand the subject. My students, for example, know that they can click the I Understand button at any point in a lecture if they thing that they have a solid comprehension of the subject. If 100% of my students signal that they understand the topic before I've finished my lecture, I'll usually stop and hit them with a four or five question mini-quiz to make sure they really do. If so, I can move onto the next subject, instead of inanely babbling on about a subject they all understand.

It's beneficial for both the student, and the teacher.

[eridani]

190. Went to an AARP meeting where they used clickers to record our answers to

--questions about Social Security and Medicare. Very effective in letting the speaker know which issues he had to address in more detail.

[pipi_k]

113. Bad fucking idea!!!!!!!

I hardly ever put my hand up in class when I was in school. It wasn't because I was "less intelligent"...it was because I suffered from a paralyzing social anxiety disorder.

There were times when I knew the answer but didn't raise my hand...if the teacher called on me to answer, I lost every thought in my head and could hardly speak.

That made the problem even worse.


I spent too many years in school wishing I could disappear into the floor beneath my desk. Please...please...PLEASE!!! DON'T CALL ON ME, I would pray.


ugh. School was terrifying...

:(

[MedicalAdmin]

151. So is the idea bad?

Or was your own dysfunction the problem?

And more to the point, what if that problem was identified and dealt with, would that have helped?




I guess I'm trying to separate your dewscriptions of your experience from you evaluation of the ideas in the OP. Help?

[Hannah Bell]

114. the british academies = charter schools.

[JackRiddler]

127. BTW the headline is bullshit from Telegraph, a perpetual classwar attack vehicle.

[donco6]

138. Thus making it the perfect vehicle for Straight Story.

He lives for this shit.

[geardaddy]

174. Yep, the Telegraph is a right-wing rag. n/t

[Deep13]

130. Actually, that's just the Socratic method.

That's how lectures were conducted in law school. The instructor posed a question and selected a student at random to answer it. If the student is unprepared, it counts as an absence. Three unexcused absences and the student flunks.

[Matariki]

132. Maybe they could reword that. It actually could be a good technique

First off 'brighter' and 'outgoing' are two completely separate things.

Plenty of kids who are shy. There's probably studies that break down who raises hands along gender lines for instance - and genders at different ages. Plus the pressure at some point for kids to not appear to 'smart', especially girls.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucian]

147. The stupid kids won't be able to answer the fucking question if asked anyway.

So what difference does it make?

God I hate how this generation has to make kids "feel good."

[MedicalAdmin]

152. Fail: for reading comprehension.

Fail.

[apocalypsehow]

168. There was no "reading comprehension" failure. How about you comment on the article, instead of

implying that those with whom you disagree do not meet your standards of literacy (which is a personal attack)?

How about it? :shrug:

[MedicalAdmin]

195. Good point.

It was not even in the top 1000 of my best posts, and given that I don't have 1000 posts, it was pretty bad indeed.

However I have written my opinion about the OP and it's implications. And I was pretty pissed off by the post I responded to. It assumed that there are, how did he put it? Fucking stupid kids? Now that is insulting.

But you are correct. I messed up and will attempt to do better in the future.

[Lucian]

182. You're an idiot.

[MedicalAdmin]

197. It was an idiotic post, wasn't it.

However, I don't think that a personal attack is warranted. I can assure you that I am not, in fact, by definition, an idiot.

[Codeine]

187. Or perhaps they just fucking disagree with you.

Not everyone accepts the same theories about teaching.

[MedicalAdmin]

196. You are right.

When dealing with individuals there are no hard and fast answers that fit every person. And my opinion is just that. I should have replied with a more detailed and cogent argument rather than the drivel I did.

Having said that what education theory is it that you think this statement belongs to? "The stupid kids won't be able to answer the fucking question if asked anyway."

[donco6]

156. Another post and run.

Surprise. :eyes:

[apocalypsehow]

167. I guess you have no comment on the article, just a subtle personal attack on the poster?

:shrug:

[donco6]

176. I did elsewhere.

But this particular poster delights in throwing out a purposely inflammatory anti-education post every day, just to sit back and watch everyone tear each other apart. It's pretty sickening. If you enjoy it, that's fine. I find it irresponsible to lay this type of turd out on the road while watching everyone slip on it.

[apocalypsehow]

166. Ridiculous. n/t.

[avaistheone1]

183. Oh and don't give the kids too much homework either.

Let's really dumb down the next generation.

[Codeine]

188. As long as they're all equally dense nobody's feelings will be hurt.

Must protect their delicate sensibilities.

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.