Here's a suggestion for everyone: don't fly.

[TheWraith]

If you object to the TSA's behavior, there's a simple answer: don't fly. Drive, take a train, take a bus, etcetera. But don't fly.

The airline industry in the US operates with a very narrow margin between profitability and financial ruin. If people start avoiding airlines in any serious numbers because they don't like the new screenings, then the airlines will start to scream bloody murder very fast, and work to get TSA to change their policies back.

[old mark]

1. I wish I could recommend this 50 times - thank you! Hit them in the pocket -

they will react if it costs them money.

That is ALL they will listen to.

mark

[Zavulon]

2. Way ahead of you.

Unless crossing an ocean is mandatory, I don't have any intention of flying again. Couldn't care less about the scanners - I won't tolerate the overall hassle. I've only flown twice since 9/11 and have no intention to fly again, ever.

[NuclearDem]

3. I never fly anyway

I take Amtrak or drive

[ProgressiveLiberal]

4. Did you ever stop to think that's EXCATLY the outcome that is desired ?

When I was a young girl in junior high, living in an America VERY different from this one, we were all told how the U.S.S.R. restricted the travel of it's citizens by the use of various paperwork. Every young schoolchild realized how lucky we were to live in an America where we could travel freely but in the U.S.S.R. you literally had to get permission to travel from one province to another. Who would have thought that 30 years later...

Restricting citizen's ability to travel , by either economic means (gas too costly, no job) or bureaucratic (want to ride? you'll have to wait in line for an hour and then we grope your genitals first) is one of the first things a fascist government wants to implement. When you can't easily travel then you can't easily organize with others across the country against the big money forces organized against you.

[avaistheone1]

6. Good point.

[Raine]

9. That's possible but on the other hand

look how flying back and forth and not driving cross country has made us all strangers to each other. We have such a lack of understanding about those in other parts of this country. I think this country was not so partisan and fragmented when people from different parts of the country interacted more while traveling by car, train and bus. Just my thoughts...

edit: added word

[ProgressiveLiberal]

19. I completely agree with your thoughts

[pamela]

45. Driving cross-country changed my life.

Right after the 2004 election my step-daughter called and said she was getting married in Vegas. We started making airline reservations and made plans to board our dog when I said to my husband, "Why don't we drive?" It seemed crazy at the time to drive from Maryland to Vegas and back when we had less then two weeks to do it but we did it and had a blast. We've taken 3 more cross-country trips since then.

I can't even begin to describe all the ways it has changed me. I feel that I understand this country so much better than I did when I used to fly over the center. Several times a week I see a story on the news and my husband and I look at each other and say "We've been there." I laugh when I see the red state/blue state map now because I know you can spend hours and hours driving through that big red center without seeing so much as a cow, let alone a house. I don't look down on people who don't know much about politics because I know now that most Americans are just pretty busy and the things that concern them are just as important. I can see why so many of them feel so disconnected from what goes on in Washington. I cringe when the cable news people refer to the people from a region as if they are all alike and all think the same way because I've met some of the most amazingly progressive folks in areas I was half afraid to visit. I've come to love this country in a much deeper way than before as a result of having visited so many places of natural beauty. Everything is more interesting to me now-history, climate change, immigration-you name it, chances are I've been to an area directly effected by almost any topic being discussed.

Wow, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to write this much. I'm just extremely passionate and obsessed with cross-country travel. It use to seem so daunting and now I can't understand why everyone doesn't do it. Time to start planning next year's trip!

[Walk dont run]

12. It's big govt, not big money that's against us.

Big money WANTS us to fly - airlines, hotels, convention cities, tourism, restaurants etc. This is big government that is working against us.

What the Hell! This is a democratic controlled government. What the Hell! Folks, we are being treated like sheep regardless of the party in charge. Resist, write your congress persons and complain. Please.

[TheWraith]

13. No offense intended, but you're being extremely paranoid.

What you say is meaningless in an era that features the internet and instant dirt cheap communication across the planet.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

17. No war was ever won via Twitter....

People getting together belly to belly is the only way to effect societal change.
No amount of snarky remarks on the internet will stop an ill-advised war - only people getting together in civilly disobedient protests as they did in the sixties will bring about such change.

When people can no longer afford to congregate, it makes it that much harder to effect change.

[TheWraith]

22. That worked great on the Iraq War, no?

I repeat: the idea that TSA screening is a conspiracy to make Americans not want to travel in order to promulgate fascism is paranoid.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

26. I think you miss the point :)

[TheWraith]

28. No, I got the point. It's just not a good point.

I repeat: the belief that TSA screening is part of some massive, decades-long overarching plot by a fascist shadow government is crap.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

31. No, I can tell right there you completely missed the point.Don't sweat it - not everyone gets things

[TheWraith]

48. Right. Keep telling yourself that.

:eyes:

[ProgressiveLiberal]

57. What are you trying to say?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Google INVERTED TOTALITARISM

[TheWraith]

49. Google SPELL CHECK.

Also PARANOID CONSPIRACY THEORY.

[truedelphi]

15. I remember musing in the late 70's that we were such a very free country, and how would

our government ever be able to clamp down on us.

I remember thinking, well they would have to eliminate the ease with which we travel first.

But I couldn't figure out how they'd do that. Flights were inexpensive, and there was still some glamor to flying.

Like you say, who would have thought that some thirty years later.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

18. In the seventies and eighties I made about 50% more than minimum wage....

and I could still afford to take a greyhound cross-country or drive a thousand miles without undue financial burden.....

But today 30 years later someone making 10 bucks an hour can barely afford food and housing let alone the $300 cross country greyhound ticket or the $240 of gas it costs to go a thousand miles in a car each way.

Americans have been effectively compartmentalized.
In 1984 I went from Ohio to California to interview for a job at Radio Shack ($1400 a month back then) - I can't afford to do that now.

All our choices are more limited now - and so we can be controlled more easily now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Closing of American Society

BINGO!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

54. Very interesting point and 1 I do not dispute

I would also add, if I recall correctly a lot of airline jobs are unionized.

Let's not punish good people because an agency they have only a passing working relationship with is making the rest of us miserable.

[LisaL]

5. So easy for some people to say.

What if you need to fly on business?

[LibDemAlways]

35. I think the business flier, especially the business flier who

travels a lot, is in a no win situation. Be routinely irradiated or routinely sexually assaulted. That's no choice at all.

I hope business travelers let the airlines know how unhappy they are with the present situation. If business travelers curtail their travel as much as possible and leisure travelers stop buying tickets, the airlines will pressure the politicians to change this. The economic weapon is still our best bet.

[readmoreoften]

7. Getting to go on a work-related trip overseas soon.

How soon should I start paddling?

[csziggy]

37. Freighters that take passengers take about two weeks to go from the East Coast to Europe

35 days round trip, but that includes several stops in the US and in Europe.

[RandomThoughts]

8. You assume the corporate system is about profit not also control.

With consolidated wealth, many consolidated corporations are happy to lose profit to put control systems like removal of travel, or forced capitulation of rights, in place. And using economic punishment like not being able to fly is a common thing to do. Note I been posting about not having beer and travel money for years, it is just doing the same thing to other people as the control mechanism expand.

The profit motive is to get ways to control, to generate more profit for more control. So if an activity has a higher control value, even with lost profit, they don't mind.

And since the TSA is across the entire industry of air flight, there is not a competitive choice. Also if it is not stopped in air flight it will be on train travel, then even buses and such eventually.

It is a system of control, same reason they want papers and checkpoints. It is not anything new.


The humiliation of searches is also to get people to accept being irradiated, standard worse and worser choice. So media screams about obvious wrong, while people don't scream about radiation strip search systems. Like how people scream about fox news and ignore other corporate news.

:shrug:

[Walk dont run]

10. Contact your Representatives. Resist TSA

Janet Nepolitano is one strange beast.

Contact your Senate and House representatives and let them know what you think of TSA.

Don't fly if you don't absolutely have to. Starve the airlines, they will come down hard on the administration.

Government too big, too powerful regardless of which party is in power. Power corrupts.

[travelingtypist]

11. Yep.

There goes my trip to Hawaii.

[JCMach1]

14. For some of us, not flying is not an option...

Nor is the status quo a good solution.

[LibDemAlways]

34. Obviously some people have to fly for business or family reasons.

My own husband commuted from LA to Seattle weekly by air for five years - fortunately before these draconian measures were instituted. However, if enough discretionary fliers cancelled their plans or refused to fly, the airlines would get the message in a hurry and pressure the TSA to make changes. I'm confident that in the very near future you will notice that neither the airport nor the flights are as crowded as they used to be.

[Blue_In_AK]

16. Not an option when you live in Alaska.

I have to admit, I never left here between 1980 and 2000, not once, but now that I've got kids living Outside, I need to get down to see them once in a while. At least so far Ted Stevens International doesn't use the offending machines or the full-grope search.

[ejpoeta]

20. i agree that anyone with that option should not fly. I don't though.

haven't in many many years. partly because of the cost and partly because of the hassle involved. plus i prefer driving. but it is not always possible. when my husband goes to training he has to fly. he hates it. when the corporate headquarters were in dayton ohio he drove and even came back on weekends. but they moved to georgia and the company won't let him drive. at least he only went for a week last time. Not everyone has a choice, but I think if anyone who had a choice chose somee other form of travel then the airlines would start paying attention. I thought this with the charges for everything like checking bags and carrying on bags etc. On facebook people said this was necessary and others said only middle easterners should be checked not regular people. i responded with the thought that this is a smokescreen for the illusion of safety. they did a test to see how much stuff could get through and all kinds of crap got through. the people who really want to hurt us are probably having a good laugh at all this security. it's a good distraction.

[HughBeaumont]

21. If it's to DC, I drive.

Even with turnpike and gas, it's still far less expensive than flying one way on the cheapest airline anytime.

If it's to any coast or Vegas, then I'm flying.

[shanti]

23. too late

i made my res in august when this garbage wasn't yet out there. if i had a do-over, i would take the train.

[malaise]

24. That's easy for you to say

All my siblings live overseas and all but one of hubby's siblings live overseas.
We wish we didn't have to fly although we used to love flying.

[Toucano]

25. And when someone blows up a train or a bus or a bridge...

we can all bend over and accept further infringements on personal freedom to accommodate the fear mongers.

No, thanks.

I prefer to protest the senseless, counter-productive and invasive procedures now, rather than waiting.

[ileus]

27. If it's less than 12 hrs away I always drive.

F all the BS with flying....

[Dappleganger]

29. That's the plan.

We were going to fly up to VA during christmas break but now we're going to drive. I'll just have to take lots of breaks due to the back.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

30. I looked up the bus to Mexico. I was impressed.

A Mexican company with nice air conditioned buses.

Houston to Monterey -- 12 hours -- $53.00 one way. $112.00 one way to Mexico City.

www.gruposenda.com

If I ever want to travel internationally, this is what I will do.

[Smashcut]

32. I'm glad you took a moment away from explaining to GLBTs why our efforts are stupid

To tell everyone else how it is. You know, people with jobs that don't give them a week off to take the train 3000 miles both ways and still have time to see their loved ones for Thanksgiving.

Glad you decided to spread the wisdom a bit.

[Texasgal]

33. yeah...because everyone flies

for pleasure. :eyes:

Since your message was so simple I must ask... did it ever occur to you that millions of Americans fly frequently for their jobs?

[CreekDog]

36. So in order to not be deprived of freedoms by TSA, we should deprive ourself of free movement

across country by airplane.

that doesn't make any sense.

i'm trying to get to New York next month from San Francisco. while i don't want to be groped or scanned, driving across country is actually far worse, far more dangerous and far more unreasonable than being searched the TSA way.

i am against TSA's new approach, don't get me wrong --but if i won't subject myself to that, why would i subject myself to far worse as an alternative.

your post just reminds me that Americans are simply not taught HOW to think. it requires NO THINKING whatsoever for you to say, "protect your rights --don't fly".

[csziggy]

38. Amtrak from Santa Barbara to New York

Three days, costs between $222 and $294, more if you want a cabin. http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak

[CreekDog]

39. I only have enough vacation to get there, not back

ridiculous.

this advice is not useful. i know you tried but...

[csziggy]

40. Yeah - with train, car, or boat, the trip to the destination is most of the time

Now that I am pretty much retired and hubby is soon to be, I can think about trips like that. But I could not have when I was running my business. Heck, when we hauled horses to shows in Missouri, we drove straight through so the trip did not take so long and so we did not have to arrange accommodations for the horses along the way. It really sucked.

[lonestarnot]

41. I think everyone should fly. Just arrive naked.

[LisaL]

47. I am pretty sure TSA will still make you to walk through the

scanner. Hah.

[lonestarnot]

50. And the argument for that would be?

[sarcasmo]

44. Holiday boycott, hit em where it hurts right in the bottom line.

[donheld]

46. Say what?

[joeybee12]

51. You're right (shudder)...Congress won't listen to us but they will listen to lobbyists

and the ailrine business does indeed have lobbyists.

[durkermaker]

52. I will drive up to 700 miles, something I never did pre-911

and ever farther, if i have the time

for a car trip, you just throw the bags in, and go

as an independent consultant, i never took an assignment where i couldnt drive

so much less stress, no missed planes, no delays, no 'reserved' rental car that didnt exist when i got there, no 'sock it to the traveler exise taxes', and my car was always willing to accomdate my schedule, if i neeed to stay later, or leave earlier

[nadine_mn]

53. But that is protesting flying not the TSA - try the reverse - everyone fly

Because if more people fly the ridiculousness (I know not a real word) of this groping and x-rays will be multiplied. The more people it effects, the more outrage and the better chance for reform.

Changing the rules doesn't come from running from your rights.

[tjwash]

55. I don't really like the "if you don't like it go somewhere else" argument

Plus...the problem isn't really with commercial airliners. The problem is with government agencies regulating security at those commercial airliners. The TSA is not a corporation, it is a government agency.

However...I do see your point. If enough people stopped flying because of the new security measures, the airline companies would be forced to take notice and begin lobbying against said security.

I started driving a lot more than I used to fly. If you don't need to go across an ocean or to the other coast, I have noticed that I really don't save much time by flying. A recent trip I took from SAN to LAS took 7 hours door to door after getting to the airport, checking in, going through the goons, baggage claim, etc. I started driving there to avoid airport hassles, and noticed I was there in 5 hours, for a lot less money and not had to worry about security, short tempered counter people, and lines.

I'd start taking the train for longer distances, but, I live in the USA, and we completely suck at train travel here.

[WinkyDink]

56. Oh, yes. NEVER MIND dignity, rights, autonomy. OR EQUITY (see threads on private craft). TSA is a

nasty JOKE.

[paparush]

58. See, I don't think the Govt WANTS us to fly.

Flying is going to be available only to the realm of the elite 1%.

[montanto]

59. Nope. Airlines are not the TSA.

Not gonna punish the airlines for what the TSA is doing. The TSA will have to end this shortly anyway, owing to the volume of complaints and lawsuits brought.

[conspirator]

60. You want me to swim the atlantic? n/t

[social_critic]

61. Won't work

The TSA will screen you when you get to the beach, just in case you are a torpedo.