Christian Leader Says Medal Of Honor Is “Feminized” Because Recipient Didn’t Kill People

[DearAbby]

Brian Fischer, “Director of Issues Analysis” for the American Family Association, is upset that President Obama awarded the Medal of Honor to Sgt. Salvadore Giunta, because Giunta prevented deaths rather than caused them.

Giunta, the first living Medal of Honor winner of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, braved heavy gunfire to pull a fellow soldier to cover and rescued another who was being dragged away by insurgents.

But Fischer will have none of that, complaining:

“So the question is this: when are we going to start awarding the Medal of Honor once again for soldiers who kill people and break things so our families can sleep safely at night?

“We have feminized the Medal of Honor,” Fischer wrote.

In awarding Giunta the honor, President Obama said:

“Repeatedly and without hesitation, you charged forward through extreme enemy fire, embodying the warrior ethos that says, `I will never leave a fallen comrade…Your actions disrupted a devastating ambush before it could claim more lives. Your courage prevented the capture of an American soldier and brought that soldier back to his family.”

http://networkedblogs.com/aFUaX

[DearAbby]

1. Have I mentioned how disgusting these people are?

Criteria: The Medal of Honor is awarded by the President, in the name of Congress, to a person who, while a member of the Army, distinguishes himself or herself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his or her life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in action against an enemy of the United States.

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/moh.shtml

[AndrewP]

25. That they are

[Hell Hath No Fury]

2. What a fucking asshat.

I double dog dare Mr. Fischer to attempt what that soldier did. I suspect he would be hampered by the enormous load of shit in his drawers at the first sound of gunfire. :mad:

[Barack_America]

3. So in keeping with Christ's message...

...that I can almost picture the big man saying this himself.

:eyes:

[laconicsax]

6. If you believe what the Bible is a reliable source, he sorta did.

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" Matthew 10:34

[Barack_America]

Yeah, not so much on the whole Bible thing, but thanks for the tip.

Seems to be a rather contradictory document.

[laconicsax]

14. That's a very tactful way of putting it. n/t

[Winterblues]

13. That is why everyone has always called him the "Prince of Peace"

Believe it or not there are many mixed messages within the Bible...:shrug:

[laconicsax]

15. I believe it. n/t

[laughingliberal]

39. Indeed. nt

[laughingliberal]

36. Scripture must be taken in its entirety. Cherry picking is how certain sects have bastardized...

...Christian theology and brainwashed a slew of RWers in the process.

[laconicsax]

51. In its entirety, it's a self-contradictory, barely coherent, assemblage of myths and propaganda.

Hell, the first two chapters of Genesis contradict each other. It's what happens when a culture absorbs and co-opts another's mythology.

[jody]

4. Such idiots should learn from Desmond Doss and two other pacifists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

[midnight]

5. Brian Fisher is a condescending fool who's discrimination against

women and other brave people should have him removed from this post.

[jobycom]

7. He's not just the director of Issues Analysis, he's the number one guy with issues!

Some people are put on this earth to be punchlines. That's all. :rofl:

[Ian David]

8. We should ask Brian Fischer to challenge Sgt. Salvadore Giunta to a fight to the death. n/t

[Reader Rabbit]

9. So he's a pro-lifer, right?

:eyes:

[laconicsax]

12. That would probably follow. n/t

[karynnj]

23. Yep - with a commendation from Idaho to prove it

http://action.afa.net/detail.aspx?id=2147486648

Apparently the only lives that count are those not yet born.

[polmaven]

55. I'm willing to bet

he is so pro-life that he also believes in the death penalty.

[backscatter712]

97. Like Carlin said, conservatives want live babies to turn them into dead soldiers. n/t

[laconicsax]

10. What sexist bullshit. n/t

[KatyaR]

11. Damn it, when will these people stop it?

I am so sick of listening to this horseshit. Do these people not have ANYTHING but hate in their sorry-assed lives?

Maybe Fischer should enlist and go overseas and try to earn the Medal of Honor himself, let's see how well he does....

[Pisces]

16. THese people never make sense.

[tularetom]

17. That sumbitch is right up there with Westboro Babtist Church

"Feminized " is now a bad name, I guess.

[d_r]

18. un-freaking-believable

it is some kind of cognitive dissonance thing, to just be against EVERYTHING that has anything to do with Obama in any way.

[ljm2002]

19. Just to be clear:

This is how these asshats honor our soldiers, by pissing on the highest honor that can be bestowed, for purely political reasons.

What a creep. I hope he ... well never mind, don't want to write in public what I really hope for this sorry excuse for a human being.

[Withywindle]

68. And also insulting all women everywhere.

Many of whom are soldiers, many of whom show more courage every day before breakfast than this sad little sick fuck has in his whole life.


War isn't a video game, Fischer, you chickenhawk piece of shit.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. What Bible were you reading, Mr. Fischer?

What Jesus do you call your Lord, sir?

[laconicsax]

31. Maybe the one in Matthew 10:34

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"

[Jack Rabbit]

42. A little context might be helpful . . .

Here, please let me provide.

Jesus is not speaking of war and peace in that context, but using war and peace as a metaphor for what might happen to those who persecute his messengers.

[laconicsax]

53. So you say.

Verses 32-37 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Sure sounds like he's speaking metaphorically about what might happen to those who persecute Christians. :eyes:

[WildEyedLiberal]

63. Cherrypicking is really no more intellectually honest when you do it

Most people understand that he is saying that people should choose their faith over external factors, even including family, if said family is causing them to "deny" him. You don't have to like that - and I'm in no way suggesting you should - but inferring that Jesus is talking about putting non-Christians to the sword is every bit as disingenuous as the Bible thumpers.

[laconicsax]

73. And now you claim a different interpretation of the same passage.

First it was a metaphor for what might happen to people who persecute Christians and now it's an illustration of how far you should take the primacy of faith.

I don't have a problem with different interpretations--one of the nice things about fiction is that it can mean something different to everyone and there are generally no wrong answers. I do find it a touch hypocritical to change your story at the drop of a hat and then try to claim the "intellectual honesty" high ground.

How does the expression go? "First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

[karynnj]

21. His bio shows that he never served at all

It is amazing that anyone would criticize someone who risked his life to save another as not courageous enough - though he likely did so in 2004 as well.

Not to mention that there is a problem with sexism here - there are women who have risked far more and shown more courage than this jerk ever did.

http://action.afa.net/detail.aspx?id=2147486648

[w8liftinglady]

62. he is typical of the keyboard brigade right-wingers in my area

They are true cowards when it comes to actually doing more than talk.

[struggle4progress]

22. "Need media attention? Got nothing to say? Try Noisy Outrage™!"

[FiveGoodMen]

24. When the "NotAllLikeThat" Christians stand up and condemn this sort of thing

I might lay off Christian-bashing.

Not before.

God damn Fischer.

And in the absence of god, may the rest of us damn him.

[polmaven]

57. Right here!!!

I am a strong Christian and I strongly condemn the statements that people like this sorry excuse said. I condemn the actions of Phelps and family. I condemn those anti-choice zealots who love "life" from conception to birth, but then will turn the child out into the cold to die.

These are not Christians....and, actually, my pastor has stated that she does not consider the Phelps crowd to be Christian either. I am confident that she would/will condemn the words of Mr. Fisher as well.

As a matter of fact, I have heard my pastor's "superior" also condemn the Phelps family. I haven't personally heard our Bishop say the words, but I have heard enough from him to know that he would condemn all of the above as well.

The faux Christians may be the loudest, but they are not anywhere near being representative of true Christians. I do not know a single one who would support that kind of drivel. Not only are we "NotAllLikeThat", but actually very, very few are "like that".

I believe Jesus Christ was a liberal in his lifetime, and would be liberal if he were walking the earth today.

[WildEyedLiberal]

64. I doubt the poster you're replying to cares

Just like the right-wingers who insist that if Muslims want to stop being painted as terrorists, then "they" need to stand up and out-shout the radicals. And conveniently, nothing they do is ever "enough" to "prove" that they are sufficiently outraged by their idiotic brethren. :eyes:

There are so many stupid double standards on the left it's not even funny.

[polmaven]

84. Oh, I know...

But when I run across a post like that, my hackles just won't let me not respond. Thank you for your response.

[FiveGoodMen]

92. In fact, I DO care.

I grew up in a Christian home, and although I decided long ago that I didn't buy the story, I was still pretty sure that Christians really wanted to follow the teachings attributed to Jesus.

Then came 2003 and Bush's plan to attack those who had never harmed us.

I fully expected churches all across America to erupt in outrage that their country was planning mass-murder for political reasons.

Didn't happen. And I was honestly shocked.

I certainly expected my very-religious family to be against it.

They were fine with it.

I know a very few Christians that actually think the red letters in their Bibles have any great significance. I give them much credit for that.

In summary, then, my personal experience of Christians dealing with America's current evil is: Most of them are behind it 100%.

----

As to "Just like the right-wingers who insist that if Muslims want to stop being painted as terrorists, then "they" need to stand up and out-shout the radicals", you've got a point.

But, only if we blame the individuals like the poster you were responding to for not doing enough. That would be unfair and inaccurate.

On the other hand, Christianity, as a belief system and a political force, has a life of its own. Taken as a whole, I believe that my criticisms of that monster are correct.

So: If the sensible ones don't manage to shout down the crazy ones, that does not make it their fault, however that still leaves us stuck with the monster.

[polmaven]

101. Let me say..

The Bishop to whom I referred in my post was actually the "president" of the General UM Bishop's in 2003, and requested a meeting with (P)resident Bush before he went to Iraq, and was refused. Bush claims to be a Methodist, but when the denomination's chief Bishop wanted to meet with him to convey opposition to that war, he was turned down. The story got minuscule coverage. You will recall that all branches of government were then controlled by the (R)s. The MSM did not care to report anything that didn't agree with them.

[FiveGoodMen]

93. That's great to hear.

I have no quarrel with your post except for this: 'actually very, very few are "like that"'

That might be true of your experience, but it's wildly unlike mine.

Even my mother -- who was very big on empathy and compassion and stressed the words of Jesus much more than she did any other part of the Bible -- still couldn't make up her mind whether killing thousands and thousands of innocent people was wrong.


Please see post #92 for more.

[femrap]

26. We can't make this shit up.....

I'm just amazed that Jesus wants boys to kill people...and if they don't, they're girls.

These people need to be re-educated. OMG...I just can't believe this POS dude.

[NuclearDem]

27. I don't think there's a pit of Hell deep enough for this asshole

And if this bastard had actually READ the citation, he would've known that Sgt Giunta had actually killed insurgents in the battle--namely, while he was saving a fellow soldier from being carried off by them.

[Citizen Worker]

28. Onward christian soldiers...

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I guess all the MEDICS who got it over the years

were sissies, and the same goes for a few Chaplains... there are days I want to well slap them.

[hobbit709]

85. Exactly! I'd like to see that ass tell those holders of the CMH that.

[liberal N proud]

30. What happened to WWJD?

I guess it only counts as part of the children's indoctrination.

[KansDem]

32. He wasn't joking?

:(

I'll never understand Christian mythologists...

[DearAbby]

33. Who is Brian Fischer?

Old article: http://may-chang.com/?p=182

Right-wingers, Lies & Videotape; Deconstructing Bryan Fischer

[KamaAina]

34. Jon Stewart needs to start a new "Thank You, Brian Fischer" segment

This fuckmook has been singlehandedly responsible for more priceless comedic nuggets over the past several weeks than the entire state of South Carolina. :eyes:

[Throd]

35. I thought he did kill an enemy.

I watched the ceremony last night, and I believe that during the President's recount of the events he mentioned that Giunta killed one of the guys dragging away his comrade.

Did I misunderstand something?

[NuclearDem]

38. Nope, you heard right

Directly from his MoH citation:

As he crested the top of a hill, he observed two insurgents carrying away an American soldier. He immediately engaged the enemy, killing one and wounding the other. Upon reaching the wounded soldier, he began to provide medical aid, as his squad caught up and provided security.

[Metta]

37. We see things as we are, not as they are.

Anais Nin.

[petronius]

56. Fantastic quote, I'd not heard that before. Thanks! (nt)

[laughingliberal]

40. What an ass. nt

[anakie]

41. thou shall not kill

or are the 10 commandments opt in opt out. Thou shall not kill except ...

Hypocrite


Peace

[Owl]

43. To hell with Brian Fischer. Piss on him.

[fascisthunter]

44. lol... good gawd you idiot!

as a kid he played football without a helmet... :shrug:

[seabeyond]

45. fuck everyone and their feminizing bullshit. if they can not be man enough to deal with whatever

without throwing it at a woman, shows how damn weak adn insecure they are.

[NuclearDem]

46. Hell, I'd take "feminizing" as a compliment

All you need to do is look at women like Leigh Ann Hester, Monica Brown, Shoshana Johnson, and Liz Jacobson and realize that any one of those women have more guts and more bravery than this bastard.

[struggle4progress]

72. +

[mwooldri]

47. It would appear to me Brian Fischer has forgotten what the AFA's mission is.

Plain and simple, what he states is against what AFA stands for if you read their website and "About" page : http://www.afa.net/Detail.aspx?id=31 - yes I will link as knowledge is power.

AFA apparently has a mission (in part) to strengthen families and upholding the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death.

Sgt Giunta saved lives, using appropriate force. I'd dare say he saved some Taliban lives too indirectly... but that's not the point from an American viewpoint and not the point I'm trying to make. He was the hero, going in and rescuing fallen comrades - bringing those fallen soldiers back to their families and not going out in an all-out gung-ho let's mow the Taliban down moment.

[muntrv]

48. Brian! SHUT THE FUCK UP AND ENLIST!

[bluedigger]

49. I can't believe even the AFA would tolerate this excrement.

AGERHOLM, HAROLD CHRIST

Rank and organization: Private First Class, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve. Born: 29 January 1925, Racine, Wis. Accredited to: Wisconsin. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with the 4th Battalion, 10th Marines, 2d Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Saipan, Marianas Islands, 7 July 1944. When the enemy launched a fierce, determined counterattack against our positions and overran a neighboring artillery battalion, Pfc. Agerholm immediately volunteered to assist in the efforts to check the hostile attack and evacuate our wounded. Locating and appropriating an abandoned ambulance jeep, he repeatedly made extremely perilous trips under heavy rifle and mortar fire and single-handedly loaded and evacuated approximately 45 casualties, working tirelessly and with utter disregard for his own safety during a grueling period of more than 3 hours. Despite intense, persistent enemy fire, he ran out to aid 2 men whom he believed to be wounded marines but was himself mortally wounded by a Japanese sniper while carrying out his hazardous mission. Pfc. Agerholm's brilliant initiative, great personal valor and self-sacrificing efforts in the face of almost certain death reflect the highest credit upon himself and the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/wwII-a-f.html

I don't see anything about killing here.

[mmonk]

50. The "culture of life".

[Matariki]

52. Is this parody?

Or is he performance art?

[Renew Deal]

60. I was almost positive there would be an Onion link at the end.

But there's not. Shows how f****d up some of these guys are.

[HuckleB]

54. Fischer is the same guy that wants to kill all the "grizzlies."

This guy isn't just out there. He has completely lost all sense of reality.

[bullwinkle428]

58. I hope Satan uses this fucker's head as a soccer ball in hell!

[Renew Deal]

59. Here's the actual blog post by this POS

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500421

[sarcasmo]

61. More crazy xtian speaking, they sure do like the spotlight.

[former9thward]

65. This idiot can't even get his facts right.

Sgt. Giunta did kill one of the people dragging the body away and wounded the other.

[AnArmyVeteran]

66. Jesus would kick fundies' asses. Right wing christians are pure evil.,,

Fundamentalists or ANY republican Christian would have their asses kicked by Jesus. They hate everything Jesus taught or stood for. Even the republican party is against Jesus. They love war, killing, maiming, torture, division, hatred, lies, racism, violence and attack all of those who truly are good people who care about others.

And NO, just because someone 'says' they are a Christian doesnt mean they ARE christians and will be 'saved' and will go to heaven, while everyone else will go to hell. If people believe that nonsense then I can 'say' I'm a brain surgeon. Would one of these right wing religious imbeciles will let me operate on their brains? Hell, I couldn't do any harm because they have no brains, no hearts and no souls.

[polmaven]

86. Excellent post!

Thank you and :thumbsup:

[Tsiyu]

67. Pathetic Posers like Fischer

have been on my mind all day.

The Secret is, there is nothing inherently strong about the masculine or weak about the feminine. It takes both masculine and feminine to create human life.

But a long, long time ago, a bunch of guys like Fischer got pissed off because they couldn't make babies. They envied women.

So they made up this lie that a Great Big Mean Old Male made all life, and if you were a woman and you wanted to keep the Great Big Mean Old Male Gawd happy, you had to treat men as if they were all Gawds, too, and you had to treat your own female selves as dirty and evil and worthless and then everything would be wonderful.


So then the guys all took over and said that babies were kinda stupid (except pre-born ones) and that nurturing was dumb and that caring about other people was for poopy heads.

And, oh. The Great Big mean Old Male Gawd likes violence and chaos and beer and greed, as long as only men are doing these things. And he likes boobies, but NOT for breastfeeding in a Family Restaurant, for Gawd's sake.


And it's all been downhill since then....


That's my religion in a nutshell

[RagAss]

69. Deranged Slapdick !

[fishwax]

70. wow

:puke:

[Posteritatis]

71. Hateful, vile, misogynist and not literate enough to read a MoH citation. Classy! (nt)

[Rage for Order]

74. "Christian leader"?

Has anyone ever met anyone who agrees with the AFA? I know lots of religious christians and not one has ever said, "You know, you really ought to give a listen to the folks at the American Family Association. They really know what good for us. Especially the Rev. Donald Wildmon."

[daleo]

75. I guess his God is feminized too

I can't recall Jesus killing anyone.

[AmandaMae]

76. Wow. I seriously thought this was a satire. n/t

[Zambero]

77. Fischer favors displaying the 10 Commandments on public property

Of course that would violate the 1st Amendment, but aside from that, the 5th Commandment reads "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Hmmm... Could there be any inconsistency here? Also, someone should remind this guy that the U.S. military is organized under the Department of DEFENSE, not the Department of Indiscriminate Killing. As such, much in the way of courage and heroism has been accomplished short of pursuing high body counts. Fischer sounds like another throwaway chickenhawk to me.

[sakabatou]

78. WTF?!

[Lucian]

79. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Fischer would never risk his own life to save another's.

He's a coward.

[nonconformist]

80. Fuck me, I thought this would be an Onion article.

Amazing.

[Pacifist Patriot]

88. That was my assumption.

:(

[the redcoat]

81. This would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetically sad. nt

[NC_Nurse]

82. This dude is a real piece of work. I wonder if they hired him just to get headlines by

spewing hateful bullshit...I mean, is he really helping their cause? Aren't they supposed to be spreading the Jeebus love? WTF?

It's sad that between them and the Family Research Council, the real Christians who actually are empathetic and caring people, are completely drowned out.

What a sad, deluded bunch.

[Puregonzo1188]

83. How does he feel about the three conscientious objectors to have won Medals of Honor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

World War II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Bennett_(conscientious_objector)

Vietnam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_G._LaPointe,_Jr.

Vietnam

So I guess the Medals been feminized for sometime, hasn't it?

[whistler162]

87. Well he, who ever he is, is ignorant of the history

of the MOH.

http://history.amedd.army.mil/medal.html

and the comments on the AFA website are interesting.

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500421

[Javaman]

89. huh, another wanna be audey murphy in a robe.

so are we going back to the times when bishops lead armies into battle? or is it just another half wit jackass with a rambo fantasy?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

90. Cpl. Tommy Bennett

Tommy's story is one of the most inspiring of all the CMoH stories I've ever been made aware.

A young man of great promise from Morgantown, West Virginia, Tommy was active on the WVU campus, opposed the war, followed a deeply faithful xtian path, and had his number come up. His story can be found in the book "Peaceful Patriot."

He entered the United States Army during the Vietnam Nightmare as a Conscientious Objector. He served as a medic, refusing to carry any weapon that could cause death.

Here's the citation:

"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Cpl. Bennett distinguished himself while serving as a platoon medical aidman with the 2d Platoon, Company B, during a reconnaissance-in-force mission. On 9 February the platoon was moving to assist the 1st Platoon of Company D which had run into a North Vietnamese ambush when it became heavily engaged by the intense small arms, automatic weapons, mortar and rocket fire from a well fortified and numerically superior enemy unit. In the initial barrage of fire, 3 of the point members of the platoon fell wounded. Cpl. Bennett, with complete disregard for his safety, ran through the heavy fire to his fallen comrades, administered life-saving first aid under fire and then made repeated trips carrying the wounded men to positions of relative safety from which they would be medically evacuated from the battle position. Cpl. Bennett repeatedly braved the intense enemy fire moving across open areas to give aid and comfort to his wounded comrades. He valiantly exposed himself to the heavy fire in order to retrieve the bodies of several fallen personnel. Throughout the night and following day, Cpl. Bennett moved from position to position treating and comforting the several personnel who had suffered shrapnel and gunshot wounds. On 11 February, Company B again moved in an assault on the well fortified enemy positions and became heavily engaged with the numerically superior enemy force. Five members of the company fell wounded in the initial assault. Cpl. Bennett ran to their aid without regard to the heavy fire. He treated 1 wounded comrade and began running toward another seriously wounded man. Although the wounded man was located forward of the company position covered by heavy enemy grazing fire and Cpl. Bennett was warned that it was impossible to reach the position, he leaped forward with complete disregard for his safety to save his comrade's life. In attempting to save his fellow soldier, he was mortally wounded. Cpl. Bennett's undaunted concern for his comrades at the cost of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the U.S. Army."

He was the first Conscientious Objector since Alvin York to be awarded the CMoH

I guess he's just a big ol' sissy to the brave, burly killing machines at the Amurrikkkan Fambly Assoserashun of Tupleo, Muzzoopee. Maybe I should ask 'em. As a matter of fact, I think I will.

[Kablooie]

91. Yeah! Let's hear it for the manly art of slaughtering your fellow man! Award it always!

Jeffrey Dalhmer! What a manly hero he was!

[timtom]

94. A Christian shouldn't be concerned with the

"Medal of Honor."

[backscatter712]

95. I was looking to see if this story came out of the Onion, but I guess not.

The loony right has truly outdid themselves...

[ContraBass Black]

96. In the account I read, Giunta emptied his gun on the combatants

Dragging away the second man he rescued.

[Odin2005]

98. these idiots a fucking obsessed with gender roles. It's pathetic.

[haifa lootin]

99. If it's any consolation, the comments on their blog are 99% against this ratbastard

http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500421

[classof56]

102. Yes, the comments did serve to console my hammered brain.

Took a few minutes to screw up the courage to go there, but glad I did. Doubt the ratbastard pays any heed, or gives a rip if he even reads them, but I feel better!

Thanks.

[Old Troop]

100. And he served where?