2012 was lost today

[nadinbrzezinski]

and to those who think otherwise or will defend this... (re: Taxes for the rich)... mark my words.

Americans are tired of this shit... PERIOD.

This is CORRUPTION, dressed as triangulation... that is all.

Oh and kiss Social Security and the rest of the programs that matter good bye.

More DLC policies... ugh.

Oh and we will get plenty of change, but not the change I voted for.

[Carolina]

1. I hear ya

[bigtree]

2. I thought that was last week

. . . gotta keep up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I didn't say this last week

nor do I expect you to get it, quite frankly.

Cheer leaders never do.

I will vote, not enthusiastically, but change? Really...

I will vote because that is was what was drilled into me... but like when voting for the PRI... fully cognizant that it is PISSING IN THE WIND.

[bigtree]

28. what's the principle behind all of that?

I'm focused on countering the republican opposition. Our Democratic party is the ONLY effective vehicle that's around for advancing those issues, concerns, and initiatives into action or law. That's why I enthusiastically support this President and party.

Politics is pissing in the wind. I don't blame our President and party, necessarily, for that. It's not hard to see that our political system is made up of many disparate individuals from many diverse backgrounds and communities. Who among us is so arrogant as to imagine that their ideas should automatically or easily prevail over others in that debate; especially with such a narrow difference in the balance of power? We do what we're able. The rest can only be flailing around or sniping. Plenty of time for all of that.

So, rah, Democrats. Rah, President Obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You go cheer lead

I realize how BROKEN the fucking system is.

The first step is always recognizing the problems...

[bigtree]

59. I do a lot of things, nadinbrzezinski

. . . but thank you for the advice.

You go tell us all out here how bad things are.

[Rex]

62. And you go a head and tell us how good things are.

Lie to us, make it believable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Well I could start with the corruption

but why even bother? You will continue to cheer lead no matter what.

[Gaedel]

129. Corruption?

Regardless as to your feelings as to the proper rates on the income tax schedule, whatever rates are set is not a case of "corruption".

Rates are established:

1. Based on government income requirements.

2. Based on their effects on economic activity.

3. Based on needs for income leveling.

If you do not agree with the final result, it is politics or economics, not corruption.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. You understand of course the term corruption has nothing to do

with tax rates right? And that there IS corruption in DC.

If you think there is no corruption in the US... I do have some beach property for SALE in Arizona, perhaps Nevada?

[AnArmyVeteran]

162. But when officeholders give tax cuts to the rich for campaign cash, they are corrupt.

We have a government that is indifferent at best to the will of those who voted to put them into office. Only the rich and corporations are getting representation. When they buy a senator, representative or even a president it's pennies on the dollar. Owning a government officeholder is the best investment the rich or corporations can make. We the people will never be able to compete with those with deep pockets, so we will continue to have a steady stream of political prostitutes going to Washington to sell us out to the highest corporate bidders.

Turn out the lights. The party is over...

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

124. +1000!

:thumbsup:

[Zhade]

96. Effective? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

NT!

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Well for the record I know what indicators this person is talking 'bout

but to the average person they mean nothing, and for good reason. If the damn stim had been larger... but that is crying over spilled milk and they just don't get it.

[AnArmyVeteran]

115. The only real differences are the amounts our leaders are owned by their corporate masters.

Ideas, solutions and acting in the best interests of our country and Americans is a distant concern for most representatives, senators and everyone in the White House. From the start of this presidency corporations have almost totally owned the people we elected. Their primary loyalty is to their corporate masters and if any scraps are left they fall to us.

Instead of standing up to republicans I feel virtually certain democrats will cave in and extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich. It's sad to say, but all of the people we elected don't care about the people or our country. They only care about appeasing the very corporate criminals who almost destroyed our country. As long as the two major parties know they have the support of their bases, no matter how badly they abuse them, the two major parties will ALWAYS keep their backs turned to the people and toward their true owners, the wealthy and corporations.

Ralph Nader was 100% right in the 1990s and he is 100% right today. ANY compromise with corporate pimps by political prostitutes will ALWAYS be at the expense of the American people, ALWAYS. And we the people have absolutely no one with any courage in government to speak out on our behalf.

I don't know why Obama seems to be terrified of confrontation, but it's obvious he is. He has demonstrated zero ability to go up against the enemies of our country with force, conviction, tenacity or consistency. I don't know what happened to the candidate-Obama (I worked my ass off for over a year and donated a lot to his campaign) and President Obama but those two people have almost nothing in common. I am not alone in my dissatisfaction with the president and the democratic congress. Millions of other faithful supporters like me have feelings ranging from extreme disappointment to feelings of betrayal. Had Obama even tried to fulfill his major campaign promises he would have been looked at as a fighter for the people. And people who realize someone is fighting for them would have flocked to the polls last week and voted overwhelmingly for democrats. It's not rocket science. It's called doing what you say you're going to do and STRONGLY fighting for the people who put you in office.

Have a good night..,

[CrispyQ]

160. "Had Obama even tried to fulfill his major campaign promises...

he would have been looked at as a fighter for the people."

So true. We needed a fighter. Not someone who gets along to go along. Everyone says we couldn't have gotten the public option. How do we know, when we didn't even try? And how much better of a bill could we have gotten, if we had started negotiations from that point, instead of compromising it away before negotiations even began? :grr:


After recent climate & energy bill talks with the White House, John Kerry nails the new battle cry of the Democratic Party: “We believe we have compromised significantly, and we’re prepared to compromise further.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/39165.html

[AnArmyVeteran]

161. With 'leaders' like Kerry we might as well give up.

Let's just end this charade. I'd rather have democratic leaders just publicly tell the people who voted for them to just go fuck yourselves. I can deal with honesty, but not total cowardice. Hell, they don't even have the guts to tell us to our faces they are deliberately screwing American citizens.

I'm about to give up on the entire cowardly lot of them.

[Bryn]

4. It ain't over until the fat lady sings

right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. yep, I don't expect people to get it

[blue neen]

11. Then why post it?

I'll be damned if I'm making my mind about 2012 right fucking now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. IF you are interested in politics and history

you need to know that elections at times are not determined by things that happened right fucking now,. but patterns.

If you do not want to read this, please feel free to use the hide thread,, or ignore person buttons. Easy. keeps your sanity.

[blue neen]

125. I've lived through 14 presidential elections and have learned that quite a lot can happen in 2 years

Your passive-aggressive posts were quite interesting in this thread, and I felt like commenting on it.

It would be very kind of you to not lecture posters if they dare to question you. I know all about keeping my sanity, but thank you for your concern.

:dem:

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Ah yes centrist point of view

nothing to see here.

And of course, there is no problems in DC, and this is a team sport... and GET BEHIND MY GUY just because of a fucking letter. Let's not examine the SYSTEMIC problems!

If that is passive aggressive, then definitely guilty as charged. And I have no concern for you by the way.

[blue neen]

147. My point of view was stated nowhere in my post, nor was there any mention made of "MY GUY".

So unless you're God or PPP Polling, you have no idea what my opinions or political beliefs are. Hey, I might even be Jim DeMint!

You came here making a post that was meant to upset DU'ers...then you post "I didn't expect people to get it." You're an intelligent person; I'm sure you can figure out what is the passive aggressive behavior.

I'm pretty hurt that you have no concern for me, but I'm sure I'll get over it by 2012.

[Bryn]

15. Actually I agree with you

I just hope against all odds that they won't cave in to hurt us average Americans.

[L0oniX]

12. The fat lady died from a heart attack. Death by /¥\cDonalds.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. RLOL!!!!!

[olegramps]

130. I think that she has a bad incurable case of laryngitis.

[DontTreadOnMe]

6. Every Dems that even talks about cutting entitlements

is just another example that we, the people, are no longer being represented in our own government.

It starting with the O.J. trial. It ended with Balloon Boy. Television has corrupted our culture into believing anything.

[budkin]

7. Not if Palin wins the nomination

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. The republicans are not afraid of their base

they will do all they can to keep her out.

Ours laugh at our base, or whatever they think it is.

[earthside]

37. To the contrary.

The Republicans are terrified of their base -- that is why they stick to what that base is demanding of them.

On the other hand, Democratic politicians in Washington hate their base -- they see them as hindrances to political expediency.

And that is why the Republicans will go down fighting on issues important to their base and why the Democrats cut-and--trim and compromise and and give up.

I agree with the original post ... today maybe the day: Obama is now stuck. If he gets home and announces renewed determination to fight against extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich, he looks fickle and looks like he is going back on his own "compromise" and "bipartisanship" declarations. If he indeed gives the Republicans what they want he looks like a wimp.

[sabrina 1]

55. Palin will not win anything. Karl Rove has given her the kiss of death

And unless he gets indicted, he is still the one pulling the strings. She made the huge mistake of alienating Rove. That just shows how stupid she really is.

[Individualist]

143. There's that stale talking point again.

:eyes:

[eleny]

8. I'm afraid so

And the talk of shared sacrifice being crammed down our throats - it all makes me want to puke and cry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Oh trust me, will not be obvious

but we have entered the it don't matter... I will vote DEM, but it is pissing in the wind.

IT is a feeling I am well familiar with... but to me these guys are not different than corrupt PRI leaders... sad but true, and another mark on our descent from empire (Corruption)

[eleny]

29. I'll vote Dem as well

What I felt today upon hearing the unclear messaging about the tax issue was literally wrenching. We're being kept twisting in the wind waiting to finally learn the administration's position on this. What a destructive method of governing.

Americans are done with 4th dimensional chess game theories. That's the lesson I took from the deep losses of the election. And right now I'm dreading 2012.

[AnArmyVeteran]

116. Unless democrats I'm government get spines 2012 will be a democratic slaughter.

[ProSense]

10. Not a chance.

People have been defining leadership as Obama not doing what they want.

The President is leading this country, doing it in an effective way, and there are those who will never agree with his choices.

Leadership is making the choices he believes is right for the country. He needs to communicate that, but there is no guarantee that everyone will be satisfied with his message. Tough choices have that effect.


Social Security isn't going anywhere and the economy is bound to improve. Doom is not the future.

[de novo]

20. The economy is bound to improve? There is no guarantee on if or

when that will happen.

I think the OP is partially right. If Obama renews the bush tax cuts, it will hurt him and the Dems. If they meddle with SS, they are doomed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. And that is what I am talking about

it is time for some old fashioned populism, not triangulation.

[ProSense]

35. The economy will improve in two years.

It has been on an upward trajectory for months.

"If Obama renews the bush tax cuts, it will hurt him and the Dems."

You don't know that

Social Security is another matter, but it will remain intact.

[de novo]

43. The Bush/Obama tax cuts. Awesome.

We will see who the WH fights for, and who they give into.

As for the economy improving 'in two years', what measure are you using? How are you making that prediction and how do you define improvement?

Are we on track to have unemployment below 7% by Summer 2012?

[TheWatcher]

53. Don't worry, a Little Blue Link will be along soon to answer all your questions and tell you to go

back to sleep.

3.....2.....1.....

:rofl:

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

60. yep

same as it ever was.......... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was.....



..... same as it ever was..... ..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was..... same as it ever was.....

[Zhade]

100. Indeed. This is from the same person who insisted there would be a public option.

Then, when it turned out that was gone, the lie became "Obama never campaigned on a public option".

[jeff47]

54. Um....why would it?

There are 'double dip' recessions, and Japan seems to be entering its 2nd "Lost Decade". So economies don't always rebound nor rebound consistently.

The effects of the stimulus bill are waning. And the Republicans are only interested in passing contractionary policies, like cutting off unemployment. Because of the 0 lower bound, the fed has virtually no traction with "normal" policy, and has shown no stomach for more extreme policy.

At the moment, the private sector is the only thing that can pull the economy out of the gutter. Problem is the economy is in the gutter due to a lack of demand, so it doesn't make any sense for the private sector to increase spending. Nor will the Republican's favorite stimulus method (tax cuts) help much. Lower taxes will just result in higher profit, because they do a lousy job stimulating demand.

So it's going to take the private sector a very, very long time to pull the economy around. Just like it took a very, very long time for Japan's private sector to pull its economy out of the gutter (into which they are falling again).

There's a reason those of us of the more liberal persuasion spent the last two years screaming for more stimulus spending, and why we've become more and more disenchanted with "triangulation" style politics that failed to deliver it.

[laughingliberal]

93. +1000 People are blind. nt

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eridani]

77. The standards measuring "improvement" are irrelevant to the real world

In the real world, we are on track for NO NET JOB GAINS for 15 effing years! I don't give a bloody goddam if we are in a recovery--we've already had two jobless recoveries this century eith no job gains and a third is going to impoverish (and even kill) a lot of people.

[Zhade]

99. Your level of denial isn't healthy.

NT!

[ProSense]

108. Speaking of denial

U.S. economy added 151,000 jobs in October

Jobless claims fall sharply to 4-month low

Trade Deficit in U.S. Shrinks as Exports Climb to Two-Year High


Of course, to some this means it can only get worse.

[Zhade]

111. Surely you know by now that we don't buy your bullshit spin.

Even you should be that self-aware.

[ProSense]

112. Who is "we"

Crutch?

[Autumn]

150. Two years, How very optimistic.

:rofl: :rofl: Maybe if someone does something about it. Got to cut the deficit you know. Meanwhile for the lesser people, jobs are lost, homes are lost, no raises for the SS retirees or PERA retirees, threatened cuts to benefits are on the horizon, medical and insurance costs are going up, food costs are rising. Yep, the economy should be awesome by 2012. :silly:

[Ignis]

48. Oh, it's been bound to improve for years now.

Here's the trick:
If you keep betting the market will rise, you will eventually win the bet.
If you keep betting the market will fall, you will eventually win the bet.

Edited to add: Welcome to DU. :hi:

[saracat]

80. Really? So "leadership" is not realizing the "political cost of HCR" ?

Leadership is being "liberated" to make campaign promises one has no method of implementing? Leadership is not realizing how "hard " it would be to pass legislation? Our Leader said ALL those things, and it was appalling to listen to. Many Americans were aware of all those issues for months.And BTW, there is nothing "effective" about losing the House in the biggest Democratic loss since 1875.

[Zhade]

98. Nice to see you defending tax cuts for the rich as a "tough choice".

The more you talk, the less credible you are. It's awesome to watch.

[ProSense]

110. You need to stop drawing conclusions after your thought process

Nothing in my comment implies a defense of tax cuts for the rich. Nothing.

[olegramps]

133. The economy is rebounding for the wealthy. Stocks have risen dramatically. Bonuses abound.

[blindpig]

148. 'Leadership' is serving the ruling class.

It is Capitalism, ya know.

[Marr]

158. The economy is not a weather pattern.

Whether or not the economy improves for the average person is dependent on government policy.

[Major Hogwash]

14. Oh well hell, I didn't even get my Mayan calendar in the mail yet!

On what day?

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. That be December 12, 2012 IIRC

and that is a funny thing. Like all calendars a new count will begin.

[Gaedel]

131. Yes

In 40 B.C. all of the people were asking, "What happens when we reach year Zero?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Depends where you are but the BCE. AC comes from FAR LATER

:-)

[Pathwalker]

134. It's 12/21/2012.

Winter Solstice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. I am almost sure the Maya calendar comes to an "end"

earlier in the month, regardless things will continue on.

And getting a new one? Would be a little longer than just 12 months.

[ProSense]

16. Here's a little

perspective

[Zhade]

106. Nobody

<a href="http://bullshit_spin_even_i_don't_buy.com/">cares.</a>

[Angry Dragon]

18. Let's wait until it comes up for a vote

I expect you could be very right
I am not a cheer leader
I see conflicting statements all over the place
and find it hard to sift through the garbage.

So I will just wait and listen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Going from what is being reported

and yes when it comes to the vote... but triangulation (in earnest) aka moving to the center, has started.

[Angry Dragon]

33. From what I hear being reported

we are way past center right now.
So that is why I want to wait.
It is not easy for me to wait, I tend to lead with my emotions.

Dragons have HUGE emotions.

[dflprincess]

31. If all you do is wait and listen until the vote is taken,

it will be too late to do anything.

Better we let them know we're paying attention and are not impressed... Not that it helped much with the insurance bill.

[Angry Dragon]

47. I do not intend to sit and do nothing

I have called and plan on calling many times.

I am just sitting back and waiting for Obama to make his pitch, one way or the other.
I just do not know what goes on in his mind. That is not a good thing for a leader if the people that he
wants to lead do not know where he is leading them.

[Lord Magus]

39. If you're talking about the deficit commission co-chairs' crap, that'll never happen.

Even their own commission isn't going to pass it, let alone Congress. It won't even get to Congressional committees, let alone out of them.

[Angry Dragon]

51. I truly hope you are right

I personally do not know where this man is leading this country.

[Zhade]

107. That would be a mistake. The time to raise hell is BEFORE they fuck us over.

NT!

[still_one]

22. You are assuming no Democrat will challenge Obama in 2012

If Obama puts social security and Medicare as begrudge he will be challenge

[Lord Magus]

36. That would virtually GUARANTEE a Rethuglican win in 2012.

And this nonsense about Obama cutting Social Security and Medicare isn't even worth talking about.

[Gaedel]

132. Only Nixon could go to China nt

[Nite Owl]

23. This past week has been like a

plan to lose in '12. If it isn't he could have fooled me.

[Tatiana]

25. I don't think the decision has been fully made. Let's see how this plays out.

I believe the WH would like to triangulate the issue, but want to know how big of a political price they will pay if tax cuts are extended for the wealthy --- hence, using Axelrod to float the idea that the WH was considering a temporary extension of the tax cuts.

On the other hand, Obama no longer controls the House (via Pelosi). Dems will vote for their minority leader on Wednesday and I fully expect Pelosi to win the job. However, I don't expect that Pelosi will go along with the WH's agenda if it is contrary to what most Americans need. So Pelosi is another roadblock.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I'll be writing the WH

but at this point I feel like... voting is pissing in the wind.

[jberryhill]

32. Be careful, some idiot will think your pee is a missile launch /nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Well as long as they call it swamp gas

:-)

[Octafish]

123. And other idiots will denigrate those who ask questions.

Why is that?

[jberryhill]

128. When the question askers don't care for answers, there is something else at work /nt

[Octafish]

135. Right you are, jberryhill.

While some "Truthers" who ask questions aren't interested in the truth, others are. It is their voices we need to hear.

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. So let's clear the air

you are accusing me of being a troll? Or a freeper?

Just asking... nice way to do it too.

:hi:

Isn't that against the rules and why you are doing it in such a way that it is not that obvious?

Now come on and tell us.

[jberryhill]

146. I wasn't even responding to you

I don't think you are a troll or a freeper.

You are simply a bully who is spoiling for some kind of fight, and putting down anyone who doesn't see things your way.

Hurricane season was a bust this year, so you need to find some other crisis to pretend to manage from your keyboard.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. So now I am a bully for stating my opinion

got it... welcome to the ever so popular ignore list... speaking of bullies. And I have little patience for them.

[somone]

49. Don't give up. The Great Appeaser might send you a reply

asking for donations or something...

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. I am counting on those

going to the trash actually, ok recycling bin.

:-)

[mitchtv]

30. oh well

Hope is what we voted on , a blank sheet, fill in you hopes and see what we got, one way compromise

[Cetacea]

34. Elect a dem prez. Gut a social program.

Obama, like Clinton, will not be able to turn down the volume of a shrill, right-wing media.


The fearful reaction of democrats to the so-called Reagan Revolution continues.

They have the media. It's almost entirely futile. Snce the Reagan days, nearly all political shows are stacked with right-wingers, and the democratic counterpoint person is almost always a moderate-to-republican-liter.

The ratio is even evident in MSNBC's daily programming. Three hours of liberal hosts is all we get.
They own talk radio. They own Fox News. They control the message.
They are not stupid. And they know that most people feel that if something is presented on TV by a well-spoken suit it must be real-and right.

Why has cutting the deficit become the holy grail, while climate Change is a "hoax"? Where was the clamour while Bush was running up the tab for nearly a decade?

If they are so determined for cutting the deficit then it can't possibly be a good thing for non-millionaires.

[southernyankeebelle]

38. I wrote an e-mail a couple of days ago tell the president not to give in on the tax break for

the rich. I will be sitting the next election out if he gives into the republicans. I'm sick and tired of the blue dogs and the president being such pussies. Why bother unless there is someoneelse that is better than Obama. The only way I vote for him is if Palin, Huckabee get nominated for their party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I will vote but why I feel like I am 18 again

voting for the PRI in Mexico. My first election HERE was for Gore in 2000, after I became a citizen.

Trust me voting for I think it was De La Madrid, was pissing in the wind. Just as it is today.

But I was raised with a civic culture that if it existed here, could change the dynamic. Why I will vote. That said, I get it why people cast protest votes, and why they don't vote as well.

[Zhade]

109. Are you a large corporation? Did you attach a large campaign donation?

No?

Oh.

I wouldn't hold your breath on it even being read, then.

[struggle4progress]

41. Lots of DUers seem to be suffering from the delusion of having ESP

[Control-Z]

64. Thanks.

You put it more kindly than I was planning to.

[K8-EEE]

68. +1

[jberryhill]

118. Yup, I wish they'd turn to the Daily Racing Form /nt

[Lord Magus]

157. +1

[Scurrilous]

44. No it wasn't. n/t

[Ian David]

45. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? n/t

[Kablooie]

57. No but when the Swedes bombed Pearl Harbor the writing was on the wall.

[Initech]

66. They took the bar! The whole fucking bar!

[Scurrilous]

73. College!

:P

[Initech]

84. Can I have 10,000 marbles please?

[Kablooie]

56. And there goes health care before it even got started.

We are in for a long, perhaps permanent, Republican future.

[dave29]

58. I love these mark my words posts

you above all others should know:

shit happens.

[coti]

61. Corruption is a strong word, but I think you're right.

It's too consistent. The arguments for powerlessness, the conveniently missed opportunities, the predictable mistakes...

[apocalypsehow]

63. UnRec. n/t.

[Initech]

65. I'm sick of this reaching out to the right crap.

They fucking destroyed us after 2000. We could have had the chance to destroy them. I'm sick and tired of this fucking bullshit. :argh:

[bluedigger]

69. "Was lost"?

Why the passive voice? :shrug:

To all appearances, this administration is actively working to lose the next election. :banghead:

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yeah but pesky historians and political scientists

will want a moment

Most will stick to the official election season... a few brave souls will start looking at things like this shit and the pattern.

[K8-EEE]

70. OK great then just give up then.....

Unrec!

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I will be voting

but like voting for the PRI, it is pissing in the wind.

If you cannot understand why... I suggest the hide thread, or ignore buttons. Easy. Expect more and more people to tell you why they are disillusioned, as it were.

Hope you like that. Really. Perhaps even learn.

Now UNLIKE most American voters, even though the vote really doesn't count. I will be there. Most, might stay home... and as usual you will blame the voter, instead of asking... what the fuck is going on?

Of course the Republicans could always accelerate the demise of empire process, and that will be even less fun.

But you got my word, I will be there to cast a useless vote. GO ahead and thank my 8th grade Civics Teacher. Mr. Gonzales. At least the civic culture I got.

[ProSense]

74. Oh brother

Most, might stay home... and as usual you will blame the voter, instead of asking... what the fuck is going on?

Of course the Republicans could always accelerate the demise of empire process, and that will be even less fun.

Staying home is someone else's fault and so is your suffering because of your actions?

Yea, stay home and then if Republicans win have a drink and watch them destroy the country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. What part of I WILL BE VOTING are you purposely missing?

Is that poor readying comprehension on your part?

I am just telling you what the general electorate might do... based on this fucking thing you refuse to learn... HISTORY!

Thank Mr. Gonzales I do NOT miss one fucking election unless I am dead or in the ER. JESUS AGE, there are days! But voting, get this through your head... is pissing in the wind... that is a symptom of a highly dysfunctional democracy best case.

[ProSense]

78. The comment was generic. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. You were directing it at me

and you still refuse to learn history.

[ProSense]

86. "You were directing it at me" Here

it was a generic response:

Most, might stay home... and as usual you will blame the voter, instead of asking... what the fuck is going on?

Of course the Republicans could always accelerate the demise of empire process, and that will be even less fun.

Staying home is someone else's fault and so is your suffering because of your actions?

Yea, stay home and then if Republicans win have a drink and watch them destroy the country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Whatever, I hope some day

you learn this is not a team sport, and that you are blaming people for a sick dynamic.

Have a good life, welcome to the ignore list. I really do not have the time for the ra ra crew that will continue to go ra ra, never learning why they lose.

I expect triangulation to lose in 2012, unless the dynamic changes radically. IT IS the triangulation stupid and the DLC... have a good life, enjoy the ra, ra, and NOT learning... something about insanity and doing the same thing... you know the quote.

BYE!!!!

[Rex]

75. I don't know if I will ever claim a single issue lost the next election BUT

READ MY LIPS...if people remember those words then they know what I am talking about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. IT is part of the pattern

and the pattern is what will lose it.

But any non lazy historian or political scientist might be able to track it to this... or worst, health care. In reality it is the triangulation... and people are really tired of this shit. It is the system truly, but I don't think Americans realize just how corrupted the system is.

[Rex]

85. They don't have one clue about the system in place. As witnessed

here on DU. I know it is depressing as hell, but I've gotten quite use to it - even here. I'm surprised that you think more people in America really know what is going on. People won't notice, because the system in place keeps them busy with work, fear over the economy or a loved on stuck in our two unending wars no one ever talks about anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Here is the deal

people know something is really rotten. No, they don't who Boehner or Pelosi or Reid are... that be a joke

They do know who POTUS is... perhaps not what POTUS means, but they know. Ok most do. They also know that the banks got help, but not that they got a tax break. They also know that a family member or friend is unemployed and has a hell of a time getting a job. They also know that they cannot get help.

They don't know why, but they are not comfortable... they know they are not happy. At an instinctive level they know something is rotten.

Now ask them to put into words, depends what radio or tv they listen to. But the anger is there... and it is just getting deeper. And they also know something IS rotten.

Why fear works by the way, and the GOP figured this a while ago. We, on the other hand, keep fulfilling the expectations of the cartoon that the other side uses against us.

Yes, they could change this dynamic, but read this thread. A few folks will have a problem if we suddenly developed a case of populism, and left the triangulation. And no, the average american does not know what the DLC is, or triangulation, or any of that. They can smell the corruption though.

[Rex]

89. Lemmings can smell fear and still run right off the cliff next

to their fellow citizen. I'm sorry, but knowing something is rotten and caring enough to find out WHY are astronomical gaps for Americans. You and I are biased, because we know 'too much' from years of reading and paying more then average attention. For whatever reason, we both know things that most people will never find out about. Not that the information isn't there, just that they would rather watch 'reality' TVEE than think about huge looming negative thoughts. Lemmings can smell, but that doesn't stop them from dying in droves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. And that is where the use of fear comes from

and why we should stop playing games and go down there and USE IT.

[Rex]

95. Ya 'use it or lose it', too late we've lost it.

Didn't you notice? We can reply to each other until the cows come home, it is GONE. Try bringing it back, the status quo will eat you up and spit you out.

[nenagh]

105. If Obama pursues Tax Cuts for the Rich for a short time..

Won't they be spun as the 'Obama Tax Cuts for the Rich'?

Thus destroying the label 'Bush's Tax Cuts for the Rich'?

The Repub propaganda machine is deadly.. :(

[Rex]

113. YOU GOT IT!

I hope everyone on DU understands what you just typed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. And that is the trap he is falling into

you got it.

And at this point you need to ask... is this on purpose?

[NotThisTime]

81. Last week the repukes won and this week they got rethug policies, what a great coincidence

People got what they voted for... they wanted lower tax rates, well, they'll get them, they'll just lose their deductions... they wanted the rich to get their tax cut too, well, they'll get that too... they wanted Obamacare as they call it rolled back or whatever the hell they wanted, all these rethugs running around wanting to take their country back, well, I guess we'll see what that looks like under a Democratic president... he's got votes for crap and this party is too disorganized being the big tent party to do a damn thing about any of it.... well, who's fault is that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Actually it was more of a protest election

based on post election polls... than a vote for republicans, what you are seeing is a depth of corruption not seen since at least Tea Pot Dome... it is epic.

And yes, the people are tired of this shit... so let me see, they can vote or not vote, politicos keep drifting to the right. Soon people will have the streets left, that's it. The anger is subrosa, but it is there.

[krispos42]

90. You'd think the number of Blue Dogs had doubled, not halved n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Yep, you'd think that

the same happened in '92...

And this batch of rabid dogs is going to make us WISH for Gingrich.

[Zhade]

94. Anyone who defends ANY extension of the tax cuts for the rich can GO FUCK THEMSELVES.

NT!

[SammyWinstonJack]

126. +1. nt

[TexasObserver]

103. No, but it will be if the president adopts the GOP economic agenda.

That's not a bridge they're building for him, but a plank to walk.

[Zhade]

114. IF?

NT!

[defendandprotect]

104. Either we have to kick the DLC/corporates out of the party ... or move on ...

taking the Democratic Party with us --

Can we find some way to do that?

[a kennedy]

119. why does this ring true for me too......

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[piratefish08]

120. meet the new boss.......

you know the rest......

[stillwaiting]

121. At this point when I refelct on when Obama stated his agenda may lead to him being a 1 term Pres.

It really takes on an air of certainty for me. He wanted to be EFFECTIVE in his role as Executive, and he didn't care if that led to his being a 1 termer. Well, if these next 2 years unfold the way it seems he'll definitely manifest his 1 term vision. Reflecting on his campaign now seriously pisses me off.

Too bad his effectiveness as President will further entrench neo-liberalism.

We are just so amazingly phucked right now, and I weep for the future. It's going to have to get much, much worse for almost all of us.

Wages will not begin to adjust to actual cost of living increases, and we're already in a world of hurt. We have to collectively face reality before we will ever begin to have a chance to change the status quo collectively.

[Imagevision]

122. 2012 may be lost for Obama however another choice will be available, whatsherface, Hillary

like she'll really say no

[Scurrilous]

149. Yes..

...Hillary will save us!

Thanks!! :thumbsup:

[WillieW]

127. agreed - but their will be biting themselves in their respective asses if they mess with

Social Security. Remember that 75 million seniors do vote.

[LiberalEsto]

136. We're getting change

Chump change

[AtomicKitten]

137. "mark my words" -- okay, done

[Individualist]

144. Republican control of government is exactly what DLC wants.

It's hard work to enable neocons while trying (unsuccessfully) to convince voters that you're on their side. Much easier to just turn control of government over to the neocons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. Sooner or later people will figure this out...

and with a subrosa anger exploding...

[muriel_volestrangler]

151. What actually *happened* on Thursday about taxes for the rich?

I know there were some claims, and counter-claims. The end result seemed to be that nothing happened. It was all people trying to read the tea-leaves.

So what was the crucial move that lost the 2012 election?

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. They floated a damn large balloon and the Ack Ack came out

they have been walking it back now.

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. And that loses an election?

Wow, I think that's more pessimistic than anything I've ever seen on DU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. Triangulation does

but hey whatever... people are sick of this shit.

[SidDithers]

154. Unrec...nt

Sid

[janewin]

155. And we will play this game

again in the next 6yrs.

[Eddie Haskell]

163. When you own both teams,

does it matter which one wins?

[tomp]

164. well, apparently it's going to take a lot more shit hitting the fan...

....for dumb ass americans and a sizeable number of du members to FUCKING GET IT.

[BrklynLiberal]

165. I hope you are wrong, but fear that you are right..

[hollowdweller]

166. I think it's a long time to 2012

Lots can happen.

I've not been 100% satisfied with Obama and the other dems but I'm giving them till 2012.