So I Guess It's Ok To Break Contracts With We The People

[Me.]

I'm hearing a lot of talk about how people are going to have to get real regarding SS. SS was a social contract made with the people of this country. Every week 7% is lopped off the top of my check for SS & Medicare. I was never asked but the deal was I was 'entitled' to get this money back after, 30, 40 and in some cases 50 years of contributions. That's a lot of interest earning years. Now, instead of ending 2 wars or stopping welfare to the richest among us I'm being told they may renege on that social contract. Breaking that contract will snap in two a vital bond of trust between us and our government, one that will never be restored.

[EFerrari]

1. We need an American embassy -- for Americans in America. n/t

[Me.]

2. We Sure As Heck Need Something?Someone To Put Us First

[DrDan]

3. I think there are two political parties that can quickly be ruled out in that regard

[Bluebear]

15. You said it!!

[LiberalEsto]

32. I like that! nt

[opihimoimoi]

4. THE GOP is the PARTY Most at GUILT..time after time they break our hearts but somehow their excuses

work...its like complusion...we need to be FOOLED

we DEMAND IT

[Me.]

5. The Ending Of SS Is What They Want Most In Their Stocking

[opihimoimoi]

7. The KISS of DEATH for the GOPers who are rooted in MADNESS

[Me.]

10. One Would Think

But look how they keep turning the tables on the dems.

[opihimoimoi]

24. The Madness cannot be sustained....logic predicts its demise

[Me.]

25. Lips To Ears

[Octafish]

28. It's the last ready cash they can steal.

The Have-Mores moved theirs to Switzerland.

[Travis_0004]

6. Social security is a seperate bank account

Social security should be self funded. If they have a surplus, they write an IOU to the Federal government, but they can cash those IOU's when they need them. THe wars have nothing to do with social security, because they are seperate accounts.

If social security isn't 100% funded, then social security needs to be fixed.

We are also spending too much money in every aspect of the federal government, so I'm not saying that doesn't need to be fixed, but that is not the reason Social security is underfunded.

[H2O Man]

8. 36-D Chess & Priorities ....

"When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.; A Time to Break Silence (aka Beyond Vietnam); April 4, 1967

[Me.]

9. +1

[senseandsensibility]

18. Wowl

MLK commented about computers in 1967? Cool.

[L0oniX]

11. "We The People"??? Muhahaha ...it's "We The Corporations". Don't you get it yet?

[Me.]

12. Hope Springs Eternal

It's why I voted for Obama

[treestar]

13. No law is a "contract" with the people

Any law can be changed. I'm not saying it would be good to repeal or privatize, but your point is silly and not a good one. I imagine it sounds so clever. But the representatives of a future generation could change what our pass now. A contract is a different thing. DU does not do legal things well. Just shows how poorly our system educates people in civics and the law.

[Me.]

14. Mutual Obligation and the American Social Contract

“In America, we don't tend to use the words "solidarity" and "social contract" as frequently or naturally as the Europeans do, but the idea of a social contract is actually as American as apple pie--or Social Security. In fact, the concepts of mutual obligation and mutual support that are the foundations of a social contract are also the foundations of both our republican form of government and the institutions of our civil society.

Our American version of the social contract has two parts.

First, there is the contract between people at any point in time. As in the European tradition this means the fortunate and strong are seen as having an obligation to help the unfortunate and weak when calamity strikes. In America, however, that obligation is also accompanied by a corresponding responsibility. Those who receive help are expected to use their assistance to regain their independence> to the extent they can. That notion of mutual responsibility was at the heart of the debate over welfare reform during the early 1990s, and it contrasted with the earlier doctrine of welfare rights--a one-way vision of obligation.

In America, the obligation of the community at any point in time is seen generally as backup to personal responsibility and not the first resort. We are all expected to turn first to personal savings and insurance when in difficulty, and only then to turn to the wider community.

But there is a second part of the contract, and that refers to the contract between the generations over time. It is a critical foundation of the idea of social insurance. Social Security and Medicare are manifestations of our agreement, as Americans, that as each generation ages its members can count on a degree of security underwritten in part by their own contributions and in part by future generations. In return, the older generations also have an obligation to help provide a secure foundation for their children and grandchildren.

Mutual obligation pervades the American social contract.”…cont…

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/mutual-obligation-and-the-american-social-contract

[EFerrari]

21. Here's the Wiki entry for this clever idea.

Social Contract

The notion of the social contract implies that the people give up sovereignty to a government or other authority in order to receive or maintain social order through the rule of law. It can also be thought of as an agreement by the governed on a set of rules by which they are governed.

Social contract theory formed a central pillar in the historically important notion that legitimate state authority must be derived from the consent of the governed. The starting point for most of these theories is a heuristic examination of the human condition absent from any structured social order, usually termed the “state of nature”. In this condition, an individual’s actions are bound only by his or her personal power, constrained by conscience, and outside resistance. From this common starting point, the various proponents of social contract theory attempt to explain, in different ways, why it is in an individual’s rational self-interest to voluntarily give up the freedom one has in the state of nature in order to obtain the benefits of political order.

Thomas Hobbes (1651), John Locke (1689), and Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1762) are the most famous philosophers of contractarianism. However, they drew quite different conclusions from this starting-point. Hobbes advocated an authoritarian monarchy, Locke advocated a liberal monarchy, while Rousseau advocated liberal republicanism. Their work provided theoretical groundwork of constitutional monarchy, liberal democracy and republicanism. The Social Contract was used in the United States Declaration of Independence as a sign of enforcing Democracy, and more recently has been revived by thinkers such as John Rawls.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

[Me.]

23. Thank You

Please See Post #22

[senseandsensibility]

16. KICK!

Yes, I'm screaming.

[fascisthunter]

17. those people don't give a shit about other people

especially those who can't afford cuts to social security, and they have the balls to tell us to suck it up.

[Celtic Raven]

33. Millionaires telling us to suck it up

Don't forget that. They don't need any of the programs/benefits that they're oh so ready to put on the chopping block.

:grr:

[Poboy]

19. The great social contract has been shattered.

Social contract
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about "Social contract" as a political and philosophical concept. For Rousseau's 1762 treatise, see The Social Contract. For other meanings, see Social Contract (disambiguation).
The notion of the social contract implies that the people give up sovereignty to a government or other authority in order to receive or maintain social order through the rule of law. It can also be thought of as an agreement by the governed on a set of rules by which they are governed.
Social contract theory formed a central pillar in the historically important notion that legitimate state authority must be derived from the consent of the governed. The starting point for most of these theories is a heuristic examination of the human condition absent from any structured social order, usually termed the “state of nature”. In this condition, an individual’s actions are bound only by his or her personal power, constrained by conscience, and outside resistance. From this common starting point, the various proponents of social contract theory attempt to explain, in different ways, why it is in an individual’s rational self-interest to voluntarily give up the freedom one has in the state of nature in order to obtain the benefits of political order.
Thomas Hobbes (1651), John Locke (1689), and Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1762) are the most famous philosophers of contractarianism. However, they drew quite different conclusions from this starting-point. Hobbes advocated an authoritarian monarchy, Locke advocated a liberal monarchy, while Rousseau advocated liberal republicanism. Their work provided theoretical groundwork of constitutional monarchy, liberal democracy and republicanism. The Social Contract was used in the United States Declaration of Independence as a sign of enforcing Democracy, and more recently has been revived by thinkers such as John Rawls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

[Me.]

22. Interesting

Rousseau and his 'The Noble Savage" opined that man chaffed at absolute monarchies and at least, indirectly, led to, or perhaps contributed, to the action that became the French Revolution.

“In brief, Rosseau believed in the natural goodness of man; that humans were corrupted by the greed and competition of civilization. He believed in a social utopia, of humans returning to natural harmony, being made free of vices and sharing a natural equality and a general will.
These ideas appealed to many people, including some of the people instrumental in the events leading to the French Revolution, such as the oath at the Tennis Court. In a country where a wealthy minority indulged themselves while hundreds of thousands suffered from severe poverty and inflation, people yearned for a basic equality, natural or government ordained. Many felt that if the general will (or the will of the people) was for change, that the current government was expected to make compromises. The First Estate of the French government was against these changes, the Second Estate was to some extent and later cast its lot in with the Third Estate. Later the idea of a utopian government changed to 'the will of the people' (although how successful this was carried out can be debated, in both France and the U.S.) Maximillien Robespierre, who played an important part in the middle to later events in the Revolution and was one of the architects of the Terror, was deeply influenced in his youth by Rousseau's writings.
(You can easily research the oath of the Tennis Court, The three Estates, and Rousseau online.)”

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_rousseau_inspired_the_french_revolution

[Poboy]

26. kick

[Scuba]

20. Well, we wouldn't want to stiff the Chinese.

[Me.]

27. Morning Kick

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. ...

:kick:

[Eddie Haskell]

30. And the Unions that represent us

It's theft! Our pensions/SS represent not just a few hundred dollars a week, but a large lump sum that's supposed to be there to supply those dollars for the remainder of our lives. What we're arguing about is the theft of hundreds of thousands of dollars in principle. And it's being stolen from those who worked their entire lives with the understanding the money they paid in would secure their future.

To turn it around, it's as if we had a mortgage that allowed us to live in a $500,000 house for 30 years w/o payments until the 30th year. Would the courts allow us to walk away?

If our representatives don't honor their obligations, I say off with their heads.

[Me.]

31. +1