.

[cynatnite]

[MonkeyFunk]

1. the problem occurs

when the compliment appears to point out an exception.

"Wow, you sure work hard for a Puerto Rican!" Doesn't sound like a compliment, does it?

[Lost-in-FL]

4. Heeeeeyy!

Mira Coño! Don't be talking bad about Puerto Ricans!! ;)

[danalytical]

5. But that's not fair

He didn't say anything even CLOSE to that. He didn't say "Hey you're clean for a black man". He said it as in "clean, fresh, new blood". It's obvious in context.

[piedmont]

10. He said Obama was the *first* nationally prominent black man to have those qualities

That's not good (and not true).

[blonndee]

13. Wrong, he said "...the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean

nd a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Perhaps there IS a larger context that might help explain what he may have meant, but I think (as noted above) it's important to find out to what question these remarks were responding.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. I disagree

'I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy'...


I see those positive attributes being put in the context of Obama being Africa-American, and I think it's condescending, if not downright racist.

[danalytical]

18. Where's the rest of that paragraph?

I would like to see how you would like it if I used one line of a page against you. No context = unfair.

[MonkeyFunk]

22. the rest of the paragraph is

"... that's storybook, man."

Feel better now?

[danalytical]

27. No

I would like too see the exchange and whether Biden said anything leading into that sentence. I'm no fan of Joe Biden, but I'm weary of the media picking quotes. And from Biden's side, it seems credible that he meant clean as in a fresh face. Vs clean as in not dirty.

[blonndee]

23. I wonder if

(and I definitely see why the remarks could be read as racist and perhaps actually are), but I wonder if it's possible that he SAID it something like this:

"the first mainstream African-American" (referring to the different candidates--the media likes to think of Jackson and Sharpton, for example, as non-mainstream) and then the rest of the clause is meant to be a descriptor of Obama himself: "...who is articulate and bright..." etc.

Has anybody seen video? I can't seem to find anything that describes the conversation he was having at the time, or video/audio of the way it was said.

[Virginia Dare]

2. Why was the compliment paid in context with his race?

that's where Biden went wrong, LEAVE HIS RACE OUT OF IT!!!.

[blonndee]

6. Just what I was about to ask.

Unless the question was phrased in a particular way, I can't imagine why he'd feel need to mention race, if he really DIDN'T mean to imply Obama is an exception.

Does anyone know what the context was? Was it, for example, a question about the fairly diverse group of contenders for 2008?

[cynatnite]

8. I understand...

I do think this was a stupid gaffe on Biden's part. Open mouth. Insert foot. It could cost him and he may be forced to pull out.

I was referring to some of what was being said here at DU and since Obama is moving on I will, too. Sorry I didn't clarify better.

[danalytical]

9. Why?

It's like reverse racism, AVOIDING race when the issue of race is noteworthy is just like pointing something out ONLY because of it.

[danalytical]

3. I'm with you

I think it's over reaction and misplaced anger. Is it hard to understand that Obama is currently the only black senator, and that fact is notable. The guy compliments a fellow senator and since he mentions a noteworthy topic, suddenly those compliments are supposed to be racist?

[Karenina]

7. It all depends on what YOU consider as a "compliment"

[cynatnite]

12. Nice things you say about someone...

such as..well, Obama's a nice guy, smart, and he's got a drop dead gorgeous smile. It makes me smile when I see it.

I get what you're saying :)

[danalytical]

16. I would consider

be called a fresh, clean, new face that happened to overcome adversity a compliment. Such as "he came froma poor background, and look where he is today. He overcame the fact that ONLY 5 black senators have EVER graced the United States Senate, and now he's a front runner for POTUS. It's noteworthy. Why pretend it isn't?

[shadowknows69]

11. If you tie it to his race

As in, "he's remarkably articulate, for a black man" which is kind of how Biden's statement was taken I'm sure.

[sniffa]

15. .....

:wtf:

if you don't see it, you never wiLL.

though that was an articuLate post for a white person.

[cynatnite]

17. Post #8 n/t

[goodhue]

19. pretty fly for a white guy

:banghead:

[Miss Chybil]

20. Not too long ago on DU there was a thread tin which the OP said something

to the effect of "I trust Sharpton more than I trust Obama." Why would one compare the two? Think about it. I'm sure the OP thought he/she was being very open-minded and non-racist while at the very time making racist judgements. There is no reason to compare Obama and Sharpton. They are two very different people.

Most of us are not as color blind as we like to think we are. I'm a woman who is white, married to a man who is black. (By the way, he's quite clean, articulate and very handsome. So, Obama's not the only one!) I'm not color blind. You think I would be. I am more than most, but being the animal I am with the wiring I was constructed with, I am a tribal being and I know it. That I know it, that my husband knows he is a tribal animal, as well, brings a certain amount of self-awareness that allows us to "rise above" our inborn urge to stereotype the world and face each other as human beings. We respect each other's differences and we enjoy them together.

Obviously, Biden did not intend to slur Obama, but he did show his ignorance with his statement. Hopefully, he will learn Obama is a man, not a black man.

[marmar]

21. There's nothing wrong with a compliment, but when it's a "credit to your race" compliment...

which is how Biden's was interpreted, correctly or incorrectly, then hell yes, it's offensive. As to Obama being OK with it, what did you expect him to say? "I'm offended by that racist comment?", so then he could be tagged as a hypersensitive militant? And actually, in his statement on the matter, he pointed out that Biden was "misspoken" about him being the first articulate African American candidate.

[cynatnite]

24. I am really sorry I posted this n/t

[Zenlitened]

25. I kind of compare to a woman in the workplace, being complimented on her appearance.

Sure, often a compliment is just a complement, small talk is just small talk. But the alarm bells want to go off anyway, because women have had to overcome a LOT of patronizing behavior in the workplace in the past.

It's tricky. Is the person paying the compliment being sexist, consciously or unconsciously? Or is the woman who receives the compliment just being a "Feminazi" if a she can't help but wonder if there's something more to it?

:shrug:

It's a mine-field out there, and Sen. Biden seems to have stepped on a bomb with this statement, unfortunately. I don't think he's a foaming-at-the-mouth racist. But I do understand how a racist sub-text to his choice of words might pop right out at some readers, while others didn't give it a second glance.

[and-justice-for-all]

26. Well no....LOL

compliment whom ever you like.

[piedmont]

28. Kinda cheesy deleting the post after nearly 30 replies nt

[pinto]

29. Locking at the poster's request.

Especially in light of the fact that the original poster chose to self delete her post, we agree.