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Why didnt we organize the working people with grievances instead of the Tea Party?

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IDHow Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:57 AM
Original message
Why didnt we organize the working people with grievances instead of the Tea Party?
There are real and very serious grievances in the population as a result of the class warfare being undertaken by the corporate elite for the past 30 years, causing wages to stagnate, working hours to go up and benefits to be further eroded, while all the gains in wealth goes to the top 1%. It's no wonder that people are "mad as hell". But these people should be organized by us, the progressives, not by the Tea Party. They basically fight for the freedoms and rights of the rich elite to s**** them over. So why did we let this happen?
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Um, because these people weren't Democrats?
Stop kidding yourself that many of them were "independent"...many were conservatives that were mad the right wing wasn't right wing enough for them.
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IDHow Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. But these people have real grievances, they have been attacked by the rich elite
and they should be organized by us, just like in the 1930s. They are being duped into serving the very same people who are at fault for the situation.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It sounds good in theory, this convincing them they are duped. Have you ever tried doing it?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And every indication I have seen is that they hate progressives and Democrats
Guns and "Water the Tree of Liberty" t-shirts and "Obama is a Marxist" just don't say "progressive friendly to me"

Additionally we don't have access to the unlimited Corporate Funding that side does.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. and of course you have links to back this up?
Seriously, back it up.

People are feeling the pain across the boards. It's not an *us vs them* issue. :eyes:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do you remember the DU reaction when Thom Hartmann was suggesting we do exactly that?
His suggestion was met with jeers and vilification.

Those who turn their backs on reasonableness get what they deserve.

Unfortunately, the rest of us pay the price.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. A number of us on the left hoisted Don't Tread on Me flag during Bush's term - not ONE news outlet
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 12:06 PM by blm
showed interest in why, though the left was using the Gadsden APPROPRIATELY to protest against King George and his imperialistic invasion against a country that did not strike us.

Tea Party was a media-driven, media-ENHANCED movement because corporations control the media. They will NEVER allow the left to even APPEAR to have an impact. Remember the Iraq War Protests that brought millions into the streets? Corpmedia gave those protests about 2% of the coverage it gave Teabaggers.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Because they are not pure progressives so we call them stupid instead of listening
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. +10
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kratos2012 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because we would have had to actually address
those grievances instead of simply blaming somebody else ala the Repukes.

The reason we couldn't do that is because Dem politicians are still neck deep in corporate contributions and thus would never want to rile their overlords.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. +1000 Best summation I've seen yet. n/t
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Nailed it.
:thumbsup:

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. No! Not the truth!
Anything but that! :o
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because we were too busy laughing at them ...
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 12:21 PM by spin
ridicule is great fun but often foolish.

edited for typo
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kratos2012 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. How do you listen to someone who is irrational?
Yesterday I spoke with a Teabagger who is:

1. On SS disability
2. On a Postal service pension
3. Ex-military on Blue Cross Blue Shield Federal insurance
4. 2 years away from Medicare


And he was crowing about how we are taking our country back from Big Gubmint.

How the fuck can we listen to what he has to say when his entire existence is a contradiction of his chosen political philosophy.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So, you broadbrush EVERYONE as being like that one person you came across?
That's funny.... I have spoken with many disaffected people, given the facts, and they have listened, heard, and went away with a different understanding.

However, if you would rather lump everyone altogether and vilify them, then you have to accept that the vote count will also go down.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. When you tell them that government is going to take the SS disability
and give it to Goldman Sachs, they listen.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Not all of the tea baggers are irrational ...
and every party has people who fit that description - even the Democratic Party.

Ever since the very beginning of our nation after the Revolutionary War we have had an ongoing argument about the size of the national government.


After the Constitution was signed and approved by delegates of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, it had to be ratified by the states. As determined by Article VII of the Constitution, ratification required the approval of nine special state conventions. States that did not ratify the Constitution would not be considered a part of the Union and would be separate countries.

Passage of the Constitution by the states was by no means certain in 1787. Indeed, many people at that time opposed the creation of a federal, or national, government that would have power over the states. These people were called Anti-Federalists. They included primarily farmers and tradesmen and were less likely to be a part of the wealthy elite than were members of their opposition, who called themselves Federalists. The Anti-Federalists believed that each state should have a sovereign, independent government. Their leaders included some of the most influential figures in the nation, including PATRICK HENRY and GEORGE MASON, leading national figures during the Revolutionary War period. Many Anti-Federalists were local politicians who feared losing power should the Constitution be ratified. As one member of their opposition, EDMUND RANDOLPH, said, these politicians "will not cherish the great oak which is to reduce them to paltry shrubs."

The Federalists favored the creation of a strong federal government that would more closely unite the states as one large, continental nation. They tended to come from the wealthier class of merchants and plantation owners. Federalists had been instrumental in the creation of the Constitution, arguing that it was a necessary improvement on the ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION, the country's first attempt at unifying the states in a national political arrangement. Leaders among the Federalists included two men who helped develop the Constitution, JAMES MADISON and ALEXANDER HAMILTON, and two national heroes whose support would greatly improve the Federalists' prospects for winning, GEORGE WASHINGTON and BENJAMIN FRANKLIN.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/5603/Constitution-United-States-FEDERALISTS-VERSUS-ANTI-FEDERALISTS.html


You do make a good point about the Tea Party in the sense that many love the big government benefits that they receive. There does seem to be a disconnect.

I really don't now any Tea baggers so I had to look up what they stand for.


What the Tea Party Movement Stands For
By Karen Miner Hurd

The absolutely amazing thing about the entire Tea Party Movement, which has grown exponentially, is the unity and deep conviction of those involved. The Tea Party movement is drawing people from all political stripes, social causes, and income brackets. It is drawing people who have never participated in any kind of political or grassroots movement before. What we have in common, and what holds us together, is a very deep love for the uniqueness of the United States of America, a desire for the limited government that our Founding Fathers created, a fairly "strict" interpretation of the Constitution, a belief in capitalism and free enterprise and a strong sense of personal responsibility. Tea Party Movement people are feeling an urgency. They are sensing that we must take action NOW, not next year. There is a general sense among the majority of Tea Party people that both major parties are to blame, neither were fully responsive to voters and that it's time to clean house.

The Tea Party Movement is not endorsing one particular solution, candidate or party. We know that there are many good ideas out there, and excellent people behind them. We know that some groups have worked on these issues in a formal way for years, and perhaps feel that the Tea Party movement is eclipsing their efforts. That is not the intention of the Tea Party Movement at all. We are choosing to "major on the majors". That is the strength and the power of the Tea Party movement. It won't matter if it's fair tax, no tax or flat tax if our country is bankrupted. It won't matter if you want the Federal Reserve abolished if Congress keeps appropriating power for itself, and voters are ignored. It won't matter how you feel about the federal funding for abortion, or the Marriage Amendment if our government usurps power and does not reverse its current path, your voice will have little impact.

We see ourselves as serving as a springboard for the people. We are a starting point. We are a powerful voice saying to all elected officials - local, regional, state and federal - "the government belongs to US the VOTER, the taxpayer, not you". The incredible, laser-like power of the Tea Party movement is the lack of factions. We cannot be ignored. Even the framers of the Constitution chose to set aside some issues, (like the issue of slavery) at the time in order to focus on the foundational issue - the founding of a constitutional democracy.emphasis added
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-the-Tea-Party-Movement-Stands-For&id=2129216



Tea Party movement

The Tea Party movement is a populist,<1> conservative/libertarian<2><3> political movement in the United States that emerged in 2009 through a series of locally and nationally coordinated protests.<4><5><6> The protests were partially in response to several Federal laws: the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008,<7> the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009,<8><9> and a series of healthcare reform bills.<10>

The name "Tea Party" echoes the Boston Tea Party, a 1773 incident when colonists destroyed British tea rather than paying what they considered a tax that violated their right to "No Taxation without Representation."<11> As of 2010, it is not a national political party, does not officially run Congressional candidates, and its name has not appeared on any ballots.<12>

According to pollster Scott Rasmussen, the bailouts of banks by the Bush and Obama administrations triggered the Tea Party’s rise. The interviewer adds that the movement's anger centers on two issues, quoting Rasmussen as saying, "They think federal spending, deficits and taxes are too high, and they think no one in Washington is listening to them, and that latter point is really, really important."<13> The movement has no central leadership but is a loose affiliation of smaller local groups.<14> The movement's primary concerns include, but are not limited to, cutting back the size of government,<15> lowering taxes,<16> reducing wasteful spending,<16> reducing the national debt and federal budget deficit,<15> and adherence to the United States Constitution.<17>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement


Many people here on DU have expressed anger with the way our government has been run in the last few years. We hoped for far more than our elected Democrats were willing to pass. Some here, including me, feel that corporations have bought and own our elected officials and call the shots on what laws are passed. The heathcare bill is a sellout. We already have the most expensive heathcare in the world and after the passage of this bill, the experts are predicting that heathcare premiums will jump 10% next year. Many people of all parties feel that Congress is broken and refuses to follow the wishes of the voters.

The OP asked "Why didn't we organize the working people with grievances instead of the Tea Party" and I believe that it is a fair question. I believe we lost that chance when we chose to ridicule the growing movement. By doing that, we convinced many that we felt we were intellectually superior to tea baggers. We alienated the movement and drove it in a far more conservative direction.

While we were busy laughing and giggling, the Tea Party was organizing and gaining strength. Perhaps we are not as smart as we think we are.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Its not a contradiction
Just because he had no choice but to contribute to those programs does not mean he can't support other people having a choice to.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Because the working class is no longer regarded as the "base" of the Democratic Party.
Instead, they try to appeal to the same element of the wealthy that tend to always vote Republican. Then the blue dogs and DLC types act shocked when they lose elections. It ain't rocket surgery.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You are right on the nose with that. Except that I wish you would also include those of us who can
no longer work.... we have been thrown under the bus BECAUSE we are invisible to all of you, also.

We are going to all have to come together and INSIST that we be heard, and we can only do that if WE include everyone who is left out.

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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Jeffersonian versus Jacksonian
All Democrats are for the common man.

Jeffersonian Democrats believe that the intellectual elite should lead the common man and look out for him and make his decisions for him.

Jacksonian Democrats believe that the common man should run things even if they leave muddy footprints on the White House carpet.

1972 and 1984 are times when the Jeffersonian Democrats forgot who their base was and the Jacksonian Democrats rebelled.

President Obama comes across at times as too Jeffersonian.
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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. When you see a parade getting organized and going the wrong way
When you see a parade getting organized and going the wrong way, you have three choices:

a. Stand on the sidewalk and wave while the parade goes on without you.

b. Jump out in front of the parade and hold uour your arms to stop the parade (and get trampled).

c. Grab a baton, run out in front of the parade, begin pumping your baton like mad, and lead the parade in the way you want it to go.


The Tea Party was just such a parade.

We didn't do c.

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Democrats have forgotten how to organize anything
hope and CHANGE
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I kind of thought we did, by putting Dems in control of the House, the Senate and the White House.
:shrug:

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Did the House, the Senate and the White House ...
listen to us?

If so, they all need hearing aids.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Indeed. Therein lies the problem. We did everything right, everything we're supposed to...

...and are still standing on the outside, looking in.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Yes, they did, and no, they don't. Don't confuse "listen to" with "obey".
"Better judgement", arguably, but you can bet they are hearing what you are saying.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I'll bet their hearing gets a lot better after this election ...
and hopefully their judgment will also improve.

I agree that they are not required to obey the people who vote them into office, but neither are they required to obey the wishes of BIG MONEY.

I personally feel there's far too many politicians who are bought and owned by Wall Street, the healthcare industry, the big banks and multinational corporations like BP.



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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. Oh, but populism is a dirty word.
It implies that academic types might rub elbows with the hoi polloi in a real, as opposed to a metaphorical sense.

You're absolutely right. "The party of the working man" ought to make an occasional hat tip to the working class.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. In my father's day, the Democratic Party was "the party of the working man " .. n
today it is all too often the party of the elite intellectuals.

It's nice to live in an ivory tower. The drawback is that you are so far above the average person that you don't know or understand him.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. 'cause the party leadership is as right-wing on 80% of the issues as ol' Nun-Rape Reagan
since they really can't actually address issues--I mean, the public option was around 70% approval and they still torpedoed it in camera--all they can do is posture as liberals, berate us for not appreciating all the wonderful things they did (Liz Fowler-written insurance-protecting bills, toothless Wall Street bills), and scream how bad the Other Guy is
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Because we do not control the media?
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