My Guity Pleasure, True Class Warfare...

[rasputin1952]

I do not consider myself a vile and nasty person, but, I can have my moments.

When "Crossfire" was around the clarion call was always, "Class Warfare!"; to which I would dutifully yell back, "Damn Right"!

No, I don't have a problem with people making a buck, if they're entrepreneurs and make millions, fine by me. The one's that bother me are the ones that sit behind teak desks, gambling with the money of others, never risking their own.

I'm not offering a French Revolution type thing here, but we do have a tradition that goes back many years, tarring and feathering. Stripping these people naked, a little warm tar and a fist full of feathers seems somehow fitting, all while tied to a stake.

We have other historical devices as well, Stocks, where the offensive one was placed in a device and a sign such as "THIEF" hung from them and then loads of rotten food was tossed at them. Of course, this drew birds and other critters to add a little torment, but that's a part of life.

My idea goes a little further though. The funds these people stole are acquired, and food, medical supplies and a host of blankets, jackets and other assorted sundries are divided to each according to their need. A woman dying of breast cancer is given the best treatment available, and a morphine pump. A man who suffered a heart attack is treated with the best available medical devices and a child with leukemia is treated as a prince, with everything necessary to make his/her life better, and possibly find a cure.

Hundreds of millions poured into education, real education, not that claptap from TX. We take the buildings these bastards built and turn them into edifices of education, we destroy they their backbone, we take all they have and distribute it to those in need.

Yes, it's Class Warfare, and it's long overdue.

[DemocracyInaction]

1. Sign me up

Actually, the way things are headed, you never know when those "old" means might be making a comeback. Of course the corporate assholes will just get on their private jets and let us all fight it out among ourselves. Isn't it disgusting that no one dares to prosecute these people? I think maybe that the first thing you get when you walk into the Oval Office or the Congress is a "we rule and you will kiss our ass or we will break your kneecaps" visit.

[Catherina]

7. Me too. n/t

[IowaRevolutionary]

2. What's wrong with a French Revolution type thing?

Off with their heads, I say.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

43. I agree ... Off with their heads !

[LiberalArkie]

3. I have no problem with Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. I hope they become Trillionares.

I do have a problem with the top employees of corporations who did not start that company making the pay they make.

[rasputin1952]

4. I have no problem w/them at all either...

Carnegie finally decided he had done nothing but rip people off/kill people;e and a hoist of other evils...but in the end, he had some dorm of coscience.

Now I'm not sure they could find a hole big enough in a guillotine to take that fat headed Rove through...:D

[HomerRamone]

13. I do.

Aside from the fact that their companies stole a lot of their ideas (from Xerox for starters), were ruthless to become monopolies, and exploit cheap labor, NO ONE should have that much of the world's resources when others have very little and/or are starving...

[newtothegame]

23. Agreed. I propose we have some permanent plan in place to sabotage successful businesses when they..

reach a certain level of success.

[HomerRamone]

28. got something against higher corporate taxes and antitrust enforcement?

and fair trade?

[Donnachaidh]

31. if we'd had TRUE monopoly regulation with TRUE follow through

NEITHER one of these men would have their billions to buy washington. Even our party hasn't the cajones to rein these pirateers in.

[alfredo]

38. Only businesses that act in an unlawful manner should be

the target of our disgust.

[quakerboy]

44. Not true.

Also business that act in an immoral way. IE the CVS that refused to give someone a $21 inhaler for $20. I feel fairly certain that is legal. But it is still to be despised. Similarly, it is perfectly legal for Target CEO's to donate its money to anti gay groups, without any stockholder input in the matter. But this is still to be despised

[alfredo]

47. A bit of behavior modification led by customers might

do the trick. They aren't the only pharmacy in the US.

One unhappy customer is worth ten happy customers. They should know that.

[hunter]

26. Nobody makes me buy Microsoft or Apple products. And I don't.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are market sharks eating the little fishes. But that's what sharks do in our economic system. That's how capitalism works. There are both positive and negative aspects of that system and many if not most of the negative impacts can be mitigated by government regulation.

Something like the Mortgage crisis, which is failing Ponzi scheme, is entirely negative and evil. The people at the top got filthy, filthy rich while the people on the bottom are now being forced out of their homes and losing their jobs.

It's going to be tremendously expensive to clean up the mess. Those who made this mess ought to be the first to pay. I want to see 'em wearing orange striped suits and scraping gum off the sidewalks at day and sleeping in prison at night.

[Scruffy1]

46. Amen to that

[me b zola]

54. You should post more often

You've been here a month longer than I yet you say so much more--and much better--than I've ever said. :thumbsup:

[FraDon]

20. Behind every great fortune lies a great crime. • Balzac

Subject: Re: did balzac say "behind every great fortune lies a great crime?"
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 14 Jan 2004 18:46 PST - Rated:5 out of 5 stars

The quote is a paraphrase from a line in Honoré de Balzac's tragicomic novel "Le Père Goriot." Here is the quote in its original French: "Le secret des grandes fortunes sans cause apparente est un crime oublié, parce qu' il a été proprement fait." An English translation:

"The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed."

-- Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 14 Jan 2004 19:08 PST. Here is another English translation of the quote:

"The secret of great wealth with no obvious source is some forgotten crime, forgotten because it was done neatly."
.

[Donnachaidh]

32. so you admire men who've made their billions destroying other companies?

Wealth envy -- one of the worst afflictions in this country. :eyes:

[alfredo]

37. I have no problem with companies that make an honest dollar.

I do have problems with companies like News Corp, Halliburton, Bank of America, and Massey Energy.

[Hannah Bell]

39. lol. doesn't that powdered wig get in your way sometimes?

[RadiationTherapy]

48. A trillion is one thousand billion. A billion is one thousand million.

It just doesn't make sense.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. Yep, a guilty pleasure---fantasy. But one day it will come.

Although I dream of this punishing them for their sins sort of thing, I do hope that it doesn't come to it.

[Angry Dragon]

6. "Off with their heads"

Has always had a nice ring to it.

Why change evil ways if there are no consequences??
Two tier judicial system
Two tier welfare system
Political disconnect

The list could on

[lostnfound]

8. In the new world order, throwing tomatoes gets you convicted of assault

and thrown in a for-profit prison, perhaps at your parent's expense.

[rasputin1952]

14. I was thining more of cow manure...

:evilgrin:

[Scruffy1]

45. Cow manure is not even very vile.

I should know, I've waded through tons of it. Just recycled grass. Now pig shit, that's another story.

[rasputin1952]

50. LOL...

excellent point!

[Liberal Insights]

9. the framing of "classes"

I've been around long enough to remember when it was clear to most people which party was for which people, and IMHO it had a lot to do with the way people used the word "class".
Working class people did better and better and better through the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, when they thought of themselves as "the working class" and viewed the other class as "the fat cats". I argue at http://Liberal-Insights.org/workingclass.html that everything changed when "the fat cats" bought up the communications media and among other things, got people to think in terms of "the rich", (i.e. successful), "the poor" ( i.e. the losers) and "THE MIDDLE CLASS" (i.e. people from the working class who are persuaded to identify with the successful rather than the poor). See why liberals and Democrats who would like to stop LOSING the class warfare should NEVER use the frame "Middle class" !!!!!

[readmoreoften]

10. You hit the nail on the head. It's this "middle class" nonsense that's the problem.

The Marxist terms "labor", "petit bourgeoisie", and "big bourgeoisie" explain the world in an accurate and useful way--according to how things are actually organized:

Labor: the people who design and produce and maintain the things of the world... be that widgets or college courses or computer parts or clean windows.

Petit Bourgeoisie: the people who small scale trade objects created by the labor of others... (restauranteurs, bakery shop owners, marketing boutiques, flea marketeers, dot.com start ups, day traders) as well as those who service the big bourgeoisie (corporate lawyers, stockbrokers, finance math geeks) It is possible for any given petit bourgeois to have LESS WEALTH than a well-organized member of the working class. That is why they are highly unstable class--they generally have the values of the big bourgeoisie, but they could fall into the proletariat at any given moment.

Big Bourgeoisie: the large scale exploiters, bankers, industrialists, CEOs of major firms, factory owners, etc.


Almost all of us are proletarian, be our labor intellectual or physical. The label "middle class" has done nothing but obscure the relationships between people and the economy. It's idiotic to think that we are "in between" poor and rich when we make $45K a year. And its done nothing but become a self fulfilling prophecy to link "working class" with "poor."

[Liberal Insights]

15. all we need are TWO classes, the "working" vs. the "exploiting"

Don't expect me to make the whole case that I make on my web page in this little msg box, but all we need are TWO classes, the "working" vs. the "exploiting", i.e. those who produce value for society (along with their dependents and those who are ready and willing to work if they can find work that pays for their services, and those who are retired) vs. those who manipulate workers and customers to enrich themselves without adding value to society.
More classes only serve to confuse matters to the benefit of the exploiting class.

[hay rick]

51. Works for me.

Without breaking it down into classes, I think it is useful to compare the top 1% vs. everybody else. One advantage of this formulation is that tax and census data is readily available which underlines the stark contrast between the astonishing good fortune of the the wealthiest 1% vs. everyone else. From an article in today's NYT by Robert Frank:

"The share of total income going to the top 1 percent of earners, which stood at 8.9 percent in 1976, rose to 23.5 percent by 2007, but during the same period, the average inflation-adjusted hourly wage declined by more than 7 percent."

Link to the full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/business/17view.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

My preferred name for the "exploiters" is "looters."

[reggie the dog]

36. to me a real break exists and is made by the bankers

who charge interst rates and who determine which people can buy and which people must rent, working class people are told they must rent and thus pay off the property of someone in the bourgeoise class, middle class people, like the working class, must keep a job and work until retirement yet the banks let them BUY A HOME! that is the BIG difference between the working class and the middle class, yet members of each class can be one month of paychecks away from living in the street, when i teach students i group the poor/working class/and middle class together along with the petit bourgeoisie because, as you state, they can be one bad month from losing everything and ending up in the street too. these people would all benefit from a highly regulated economic system, on the other side of the divide is the "elite", bankers, ultra wealthy etc.

yet not all of the elite are assholes either, some of them want regulations as they see that regulations are what is best for humanity, the term in french is caviar gauche (caviar left) and they are an ally to the masses (hell even marx was a caviar leftist)

[Hannah Bell]

41. +100. american thinking about class is completely muddled. a trust-fund kid may have a middle-

class income, but in a pinch, he'll likely support the class that provides his unearned income.

[tavalon]

11. Absolutely!

But the only time the MSM wants anything to do with it is when the top 2%ers are whining about having to pay their fair share.

Funds divided to each according to their need. That's socialist and it's music to this socialist's ears.

[GoneOffShore]

12. If we can't tax the rich, can we eat them?

[KG]

19. w/ some fava beans and a nice chianti.

[Bigmack]

24. I'd never eat one... not unless it was inspected by the FDA! nt

[lonestarnot]

29. And not even then!

:puke:

[GoneOffShore]

34. The FDA has been compromised.

You have to know your supplier.

I will only eat free range, local rich people. Fed on Champagne, caviar and fine Columbian.

[B Calm]

16. Kick

[TBF]

17. This is not "class warfare" unless you mean pitting folks against each other -

This sentence says it all: "No, I don't have a problem with people making a buck, if they're entrepreneurs and make millions, fine by me."

So, you don't have a problem with capitalism. But it is capitalism itself that not only encourages, but DEMANDS the greed and profits over people - it is the way you win as a capitalist. So the entrepreneurs are doing it right, but the bankers are failing?

Sorry, but that's just pointing at "bad actors" when you should be examining the entire system.

[rasputin1952]

21. People whoproduce new and ueful products ae one hings...

it is something entirely different to gamble with other people's money w/no risk to one's own. Some clown behind a desk gambling with retirement funds of workers, (thanks bush and the R's), and if they lose, (which is often), it's a "tough shit" situation. But when the bonuses and cash raked in from "fees" and assorted other interesting "allowances" are permitted to ensure that the cash flow at the expense others rolls in...yep, it's "Class Warfare". Odd how thesee people never invest their own cash...but get preferred stock options and millions for driving companies into the ground.

Fire up the tar, get the feathers.

[TBF]

22. I disagree - I believe it's systemic. nt

[rasputin1952]

30. Then the system needs to be fixed...

greed is a powerful emotion, not easily reigned in...but with vigilance, it can be done.

Basically, a lot, (not all), of these people are thieves, and they need to be brought to justice.

[NightWatcher]

18. the saying goes, "it's only class warfare if we fight back"

and all I see is us taking more and more abuse while being pacified with ever catchier (dollar menu) bread and So you think you can dance- Survivor-Kardashian-reality-based circus.

At least the French have revolted and are protesting again.

[Generic Other]

25. Privte GO reporting for duty!

Where do I get my torch and pitchfork?

[WillyT]

27. K & R !!! - I'm Ready !!!

:patriot:

:kick:

[felix_numinous]

33. I hope our dreams of justice

turn into actual strategy for knocking down the robber barons of the 21s century. It will take everyone unified to take them down, we have to stop arguing amongst ourselves, help as many people see where the real battle lines are drawn, and get to work. Every day they brainwash more and more people in order to create human shields and human obstacles for them to hide behind.

I am so thankful for people in influential positions who stubbornly hold onto their ethics, despite being surrounded by corruption. We need every one of them and have to keep them in office!!

:kick:

[reggie the dog]

35. sounds great to me

i would love to see the usa become a civilized country, then i would probably move home to chicago

[scentopine]

40. Recently, the "centrists" defended hippie punching right here on DU

The centrists and other right wingers cannot provide for themselves, they only survive by exploiting the work of others. They depend on an enormous virtual police state to protect them paid for by your taxes.

When "centrists" punch a "hippie" we should respond in the most forceful and effective way imaginable.

I am perfectly OK with French revolution style justice. We have a vacuum in the justice department right now. It needs to be filled.

Goldman Sachs and Citibank should be first in line.

[Hannah Bell]

42. it's all very well to dream of "taking the buildings" but how to get there from here is the issue.

discussions on du die when organizing threads are posted.

[rasputin1952]

49. Only when we let them...

I see VOTE threads are going strong.

Only the weak die a lonely death.

[ooglymoogly]

52. Great idea....we had the best chance we will ever have

when we mobilized and got out the vote for that kind of change...to prosecute the blatant Wall St fraud and the equally blatant treasons and well documented war crimes by these same;

but the object of our undying admiration, promising that change...which would have indeed been class warfare, because these same people gambling with everyone else's money and lives; would have been brought into a court of justice and shame; their calumny unraveling with every tick of the clock; stripped of their stolen wealth, wearing the scarlet letter of a common thug; whether or not the kangaroo supremo's upheld their conviction, they would have been destroyed; the honor of this country and its constitution strong and in tact, with the world cheering.

But alas, in his infinite wisdom; per un pugno di dollari (for a fist full of dollars); our leader; seeing unlimited power within his grasp, began gathering the powers of a dictator; discarding the vast numbers of folks who made him king; having joined with the enemy and dawned the masque of the kabuki, strutting in the grand halls of power and wealth; thought otherwise; not seeing like the rest of us; that they would; when they were no longer threatened with very long prison sentences, destroy him at the first weakness; so carelessly trading us, his supporters; and our futures for a hand full of magic beans and hollow promises.

So here we are with nothing getting less by the minute, as even those magic beans turned out to be just another pug shell game; Leaving our leader in the threadbare clothes of an overestimated fool who, at our expense, grasping for the golden ring...missed;

and if we lose this election and the pugs gain control, in all probably will be impeached.

Its called 3 dimensional chess for us dummies to look upon in awe.

[The Wizard]

53. Roger that

A good start would be dragging some Wall Street CEOs into the street for a horse whipping, followed by seizing the assets of the entire Bush cartel.