"Look, at your school, it's a Teacher...it's a Counselor...it's Superman"...

[YvonneCa]

...written by Sara Stevenson:

http://www.statesman.com/opinion/stevenson-look-at-your-school-its-a-teacher-974604.html


Article tweeted by Steven Krashen, here: http://twitter.com/skrashen

Excerpt:

With trepidation, we public school educators brace ourselves for the documentary by Davis Guggenheim, "Waiting for Superman." From previews and early reports, we understand that the victims are American children and families while the villains are the public school teachers and their unions.

As a former high school English teacher and current middle school librarian, I'd like to speak out against the latest craze: blaming bad teachers.


>>>>>>>snip


Are some teachers better than others? Absolutely. Do some teachers at certain schools need to move on to another career? Yes.

But before you get seduced by Michelle Rhee, former superintendent of Washington, D.C., public schools and a star in the "Superman" movie, remember that by her own admission she was a failure as a first-year teacher. What if she'd been fired after one year?

As a society, we can continue to blame and undermine our public school teachers, the majority of whom work tirelessly for our children and their families, or we can work together for a true solution, one that supports and mentors teachers, giving them the tools and strategies they need to succeed.

[Angry Dragon]

1. +1000

[Nay]

2. Any system that requires its workers to all be "supermen" is a system

doomed to fail from the first moment.

[Starry Messenger]

6. Well put.

:thumbsup:

[LWolf]

3. k&r

[YvonneCa]

4. Thanks. n/t

[checks-n-balances]

5. Steven Krashen respects, uses, and participates in educational research

He understands how children learn languages, and his research gives lie to NCLB mandated high-stakes (punitive) testing.

Thanks for posting anything written by him!

[YvonneCa]

17. Just to clarify, S. Krashen DID NOT write...

...this article. He posted it on Twitter, where I originally read it. I DO agree with what you say about Krashen. And the fact that such a reputable educator posted this is significant, IMHO. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. I'm going to see it tonite

We're having a discussion panel afterwards. It's a special showing just for teachers. Should be an interesting event.

[immoderate]

8. As a middle school teacher, I used to get visits from some of my former prize pupils.

They had gone on to elite high schools and come back to report their disappointment with some of their teachers.

So I remind them, "You are one of the smartest people we have produced. And teachers represent a cross section of people. It's inevitable that you will encounter a teacher less smart than yourself, because most people are. How should you deal with that situation?"

Students model their expectations on the best teacher they have experienced. These are unrealistic. At best they should realize the lesson of Stuart Smalley, that you can learn things from people less smart than you.

I had a really lousy fourth grade teacher. Didn't matter much. I learned from my friends. I grew up in that kind of culture. Learning stuff was what we kids were programmed to do from a young age. Teachers could not prevent us.

This Superman movie is a travesty. Parents who win the lottery send their kids to a boarding prep school, which takes over parenting duties. It's not a regular charter. This is a scam!


--imm

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Those boarding prep schools are disgusting

How about we focus our resources on programs to help parents instead of taking their kids away?

[immoderate]

10. Agreed. And my more general question is...

How can we compete against the world leaders in education if we do the opposite of what they do to beat us? :shrug:

--imm

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I want to know why it's a competition all of a sudden

Why can't we just do what's right for kids without having a freaking CONTEST with the world over it? Sheesh.

[immoderate]

36. And again. It wasn't important when we were winning.

I reject the competition model. But the education systems to which we compare unfavorably do not make their methods a secret. The question I posed was designed to challenge supporters of NCLB and RTTT and such.

Our (untested and unproven) approach assumes that students can be educated using an assembly line model, resulting in a superior product, with greater efficiency.

--imm

[CTyankee]

84. What if the kid WANTS to go away to boarding school? Perhaps they need the

distance from the parents. My granddaughter has ADD and her therapist thinks she would do well in the boarding school environment, precisely because it does take away a lot of emotional baggage that the parents and child have accumulated over the years...

[immoderate]

89. Let him go. These schools are part of a bait and switch scam.

They're being used to sell the idea that charter schools are the answer to education problems. These schools get special grants and endowments. They don't deal with kids who have educational problems or special needs. Segregated school systems is the result.

One privately run, but publicly funded, elite school system, and a publicly run, publicly under-funded school system for the rest. The low performance levels will make all staff jobs vulnerable. It's a scam.

--imm

[CTyankee]

103. The schools she is cosidering are very old schools, not charter schools.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing here...so I'm a bit confused...

[immoderate]

105. I'm talking about the way the schools are used in the movie.

These are expensive approaches to education. In some, they reqire that parents participate. Yet the movie suggests that teachers are the only obstacle.

Boarding schools are fine. In fact, given the resources, I'd recommend them for all middle school children, provided they offered real, hands on experiences.

--imm

[Hekate]

90. If you can find the right school, I recommend it. I'll PM you with our experiences ...

... because they don't fit the narrative of the current thread.

[CTyankee]

104. Thanks. Please do...there are couple of schools under consideration...

one is all female the other co-ed...both have strengths and weaknesses...

[uncommon]

11. "by her own admission she was a failure as a first year teacher" - maybe we need to be

making sure teacher's are good at teaching before unleashing them on a classroom.

It's a small amount of time for a teacher to have a rough first year - but that's a year of education for all of the children in that class who were poorly served by the ed system because they had an inexperienced, crappy teacher.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. That says more about Michelle Rhee and TFA

than it says about first year teachers in general. My experience is they can be outstanding, when they are well trained BEFORE they start teaching. I worked with one last year. She was just outstanding.

[BrentWil]

13. The point of the movie was to praise teachers

However, it does point out how difficult it is to get rid of bad teachers and how hard it is to reward good ones.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Every teacher I know who has seen it disagrees with that statement

I'll see it tonite. I'll let you know if I agree.

[BrentWil]

16. Group disagreement by teachers does not mean the arguments are not objectively correct

I would expect that most teachers would disagree.

[Gabi Hayes]

18. I would posit that most teachers would agree you don't have the slightest idea

what you're talking about, especially based on your totally erroneous earlier post

nice try, though; welcome to the DU trolling crew

[BrentWil]

19. Ah, attacks on the person instead of the actual arguments

Common theme.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. From the teacher bashers, yes it is a common theme

Glad to see a teacher pushing back.

[BrentWil]

21. Someone has bashed a teacher?

I simply stated it was difficult to reward good teachers and hard to fire bad ones. Is that statement factually incorrect?

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Yes it is.

[BrentWil]

39. Well, what are the steps to get rid of a teacher?

What are the steps where you are from? What percentage of teachers are fired compared to Doctor's that lose their license? How do you increase the salary of a teacher that is doing very well?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Competent administrators have no problem firing teachers

The incompetent ones struggle to complete the process.

There were 50 or 60 teachers fired in my district last year.

It's certainly not impossible.

[Gabi Hayes]

91. you so betray your complete lack of understand for the basic motivation of people people who enter

the teaching profession in the first place

they don't go INTO it to MAKE Money, you simpleton. they aren't motivated like your money-grubbing pals by filthy lucre

as I stated before, with every post you reveal your total lack of understanding of the public educational system

try stretching your tiny brain a bit, and imagine what might be something (besides mere $$$$) that would motivate a teacher.

It's obvious you haven't a clue, so I won't hold my breath

sorry if you take things so personally, but people like you, whether from sheer ignorance, or agenda-driven malice, are helping make things worse, not better for educators, and making much easier for corporate wheeler dealers, like the ones mentioned in the Kozol thread, to feed at the public trough in one of the few areas left to privatize.

[Nevernose]

102. The comparison with doctors is unfair

I saw John Legend talking about that same point on Bill Maher the other day: that 1 out of 50 doctors loses their license, yet only 1 out of 2500 teachers do. The problem here is that in this particular case, it's apples and oranges. A more fair comparison might be to measure the percentages of the two groups still in their respective fields after ten years. Teachers quit; doctors don't.

The drop-out rate for teachers is very high nationally, something in the neighborhood of 50% after seven years. In my district, the drop-out rate for teachers is 80% after 7 years. That means that 4 out of 5 people I started teaching with have quit the field, usually altogether, because they couldn't hack it. There's no need to fire bad teachers or take their licenses in the same numbers, because most of them quit.

New York does have a problem, but it is largely administratively-created. Most of those people in the rubber rooms want to go back to work, but so few resources are devoted to investigation and appeals of claims that it takes forever.

If you really think that teachers should be treated more like doctors, well, I'd have to agree. No more school boards or state laws interfering with what the professionals know how to do, and schools would all be run by teachers in the best interests of students. And if a teacher wasn't very good, that would be decided by a group of impartial teachers, just like a state's medical board does.

[madfloridian]

22. No, that is not true. It's a pro-charter movie featuring charter heads

and "reformers" like Michelle Rhee.

The point of the movie is to push charter schools and make public school teachers look back.

It is ludicrous what you just said. Of course it is not had to reward good teachers and get rid of "bad" ones. Tenured teachers can be fired for cause. It is propaganda that they can not.

[BrentWil]

23. What is the process to do that?

Can you take me through the steps in your state or local government? What percentage of teachers that are fired compared to the number of Doctors or Lawyers who lose their license?

[madfloridian]

38. You look up all the percentages and get back to me.

But hurry because Arne is hastening the dismantling of public schools. Soon it will be too late.

[Recursion]

25. That's half true

f course it is not had to reward good teachers and get rid of "bad" ones. Tenured teachers can be fired for cause.

Yes, but in many contracts, sucking at your job is not considered "cause".

[Catshrink]

26. You've bought into the fairy tale

that there are a huge number of incompetent teachers out there. Contracts have a due process clause to prevent arbitrary firings. Should a teacher be fired for having a bad day? Because he or she is gay? Because he or she goes to the "wrong" church? So that a school board member can get his nephew a job? Keep at it... this is the uptopia you are creating with your anti-union rants. How progressive of you.

[Recursion]

27. Right, my experience attending, working in, and volunteering in public schools is a "fairy tale"

:eyes:

I suppose because I was a "resource instructor" rather than a teacher my opinion is absolutely meaningless, since I don't have that magic Ed degree that lets me dismiss everyone else's opinion about learning.

[Catshrink]

28. Attending means little

students have no idea what goes into teaching. Working in? As a teacher with the responsibility for administering a class, planning lessons, grading, classroom management, etc.? I thought not. Volunteering? Nope, still not enough of the experience that would render you qualified to evaluate a teacher's performance. It's far more nuanced than you are capable of understanding.

[Recursion]

29. Exactly

Teachers are highly-trained super-beings who must not be questioned by mere resource instructors (or, God forbid, students).

Yet despite those powers, they are utterly incapable of improving the academic performance of their students, and so can't be judged based on that.

And the title "attending means little" gets to the heart of what ticks me off about a lot of teachers' attitudes...

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Recursion]

32. I'm not the one suggesting it

We do improve academic performance of our students and for you to suggest that we do not is just another insult and demonstration of your idiocy regarding education

Whatever. I was quoting the anti-reform people on this board who say teachers can't improve students' academic performance.

Of course, to improve the academic performance, we need students who are in school, paying attention to instruction and activities, not their freaking ipods or friends or cell phones, parents who support education, and administrators who provide a safe and supportive environment. What part of that don't you understand?

The part where you say teachers can improve students' academic performance, but then apparently cannot have any measurement of that used to evaluate them.

[Catshrink]

33. Did I say that student performance can't be used to measure teachers?

I, and most teachers I know, object to the use of one standardized test to evaluate their performance. There are many ways to measure student achievement, test scores alone are NOT the say to go. How do you compare a teacher who teaches AP classes to one who teaches "average" students? The populations are completely different and yet there are those who would penalize the teacher of "average" students because they don't perform like AP students.

Please, use my student acheivement to evaluate me - but don't use a standardized one day test to do so. That is a snapshot that doesn't not tell the whole story.

[Hannah Bell]

35. your posts are a maze of hidden assumptions & false claims.

untangling them would be a multiple-hour challenge.

[laurel46]

31. Madfloridian, you are incorrect.

From your prior posts, it is clear you have no good grasp of standardization of statistical testing, the scientific method, random sampling and a list of other confounders. Your evaluations are anecdotal and the hyperbole make your arguments, in general, unreliable.

[YvonneCa]

34. I really hope, being a newbie here, that you have read...

...Madfloridian's journal completely before saying that...

And welcome.

[msanthrope]

107. I would venture to guess that reading said journal is what prompted the remarks. n/t

[madfloridian]

37. lol eeeek

:wow:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laurel46]

47. A Ph.D in math and an MS in research design

stand in back of that post I made. ( As well as 40+ years of university work.) I have several friends with Nobel's in physics, economics and an Obell in math. Exactly, who are your references?

I stand by my credentials and my published research but I am not new here, I do not post that often. The months of attacks on charters with nothing to back up the claims is tiresome.

[Catshrink]

48. But your experience as a classroom teacher?

Right. But we'll bow down to you because you have friends who are Nobel laureates. :rofl:

[laurel46]

51. I have over 40 years of teaching at a major university.

As well as doing research.

I will ask again, what are your credentials to debunk Mr. Duncan's program? I will accept unsubstantiated opinions when the person making them is in a position to do so, but ask for evidence to other claims from unsubstantiated sources. I feel it is prudent to understand that not all agree with madfloridian's ideas and are in a position of understanding both teaching and research on population based studies. I have seen students preform very poorly with intelligence being fairly constant, they can learn, but the skills learned in high school have steadily lowered. However, enough with anecdotes, these are questions that can be answered by research, and the Obama administration is making a start.

I am a teacher and have been turning out general scientists, physicists, mathematicians and engineers for 40 years and you question my compassion and laugh at me? I hope the discussion on charter schools and reform takes on a more positive air with more constructive commentary. I generally find thoughtful and caring people on this site and try to match that, while I have lost my temper on one or two occasions, I try to be constructive and courteous.

[Dappleganger]

53. University experience does NOT equal a public school classroom.

Nice try but you lose. madfloridian has decades of real world public school teaching in a classroom with KIDS and knows her shit.

[Catshrink]

56. Did I question your compassion?

Teaching university is not the same thing as teaching K-12.

Obama/Duncan are not doing educational research, in fact, they've dismissed it in favor of their billionaire boys' schemes. If they believed in the validity of educational research, they wouldn't worship the BIG TEST and would realize that these don't measure learning. But you don't want to hear that.

Have you ever heard of the "Ivory Tower?" Of course you have. Those of us who are practioners in education, those in the trenches who deal with kids every day, strongly resent those who don't coming in and telling us how to do our jobs. They don't know our jobs, they have no appreciation for the daily rhythms and dynamics of a classroom, they don't know where the teacher has been with the lesson and where it's going, they see a snapshot and make a judgement. They judge without listening and dialog. They throw around big words that, in the real world of education, have little meaning. By using big words, they hope to obscure their feelings of inferiority for, in fact, they know that they couldn't handle the class or content. Chew on that.

We've been having this discussion for quite a while. You waltz in, blast your resume, brag that you have friends who are Nobel laureates, and expect us to bow down before you. It ain't gonna happen. Your arrogance has set the tone that negates any kind of positive air. It's a wonder you condescend to post.

[madfloridian]

60. I am the one who questioned her compassion when she threw the word "statistics" at me.

That really took nerve to do.

Children are more than statistics.

She is free to insult me openly....but I am free to fight back. I live near many professors at a nearby university. They respect me, I respect them...we are friends.

It is really becoming open warfare when we speak out against Arne.

Maybe I AM making a difference. I damn sure hope so.

[Catshrink]

65. She wants you to know how smart she is.

If she really believed in research, she'd be loudly rejected the Obama/Duncan scheme because it is not based on research. More precisely, it isn't based on educational research - maybe market research. Duncan doesn't believe in educational research or he'd slow down and spend time analyzing the disaster he left in Chicago and not roll out that mistake to the entire nation. But, how would he know? He's not qualified to do my job.

[Hekate]

71. "She wants you to know how smart she is." I thought it was Repubs that were anti-intellectual...

... and conflated higher education with unacceptable elitism.

[madfloridian]

78. Just a minute there. I have "higher education".

So do most of the teachers who post here.

That is the contempt in which the reformers hold us....they think they are better and smarter and all they care about is numbers and statistics.

[Hekate]

81. So do most of us, period. But most of us don't use schoolyard taunts like that

Because yes, that's a schoolyard taunt. As any other kid who had inch-thick glasses and her nose in a book will tell you. "Big words"?!

This is an open forum on a discussion board, so it is to be expected that sooner or later someone who has a different point of view than you do will wander in and try to engage in reasonable discussion. If you don't want that, perhaps you could ask the Admins for a sequestered spot of your own, which is just a suggestion, not an exclusionary remark.

Hekate

[madfloridian]

83. Whoa, there. What happened here was not JUST a difference

in point of view.

I was talked down to because I was not using testing statistics in my post. That is not what I do, and anyone who reads my stuff would know that.

I was insulted because I advocated for the students themselves, and because I pointed out some truths about a piece of propaganda called Superman.

What happened here was that the big picture of what is happening came into clear view. I was told, yes, told that I did not know what I was talking about because I did not use big statistical testing words, etc.

I never do, never have. I post from the viewpoint that education should be what is right for the children, and I have for over two years complained that the testing is done to cause failure in public schools.

I think I deserve respect for being what I am, a retired teacher. That professor doesn't think so, and she insulted me publicly and unfairly.

I waited a day before filling out my ballot because I was so angry. I must vote for Democrats who advocate for charter schools over public schools, and I was not sure I could do it. I still have not voted.

I think we teachers deserve respect here, but I don't expect it.

I resented it, it made me angry, very angry....and I know one FL Democrat who just might lose my vote because I am sick and tired of being insulted.

So go ahead and make my day.

[Hekate]

85. I am very sorry that you experience life that way. The stress must be terrible.

And please understand me when I say that there is not one syllable of sarcasm in that statement. Not one.

[madfloridian]

86. ...

Not real sure how the statements were meant.

Whether they are truly understanding or not. The words just don't touch me anymore.

And that is not a good thing. I have posted here for over 7 years, I post sources, I post from my experiences as a teacher.

I have seen other very good people treated the same way I am treated. With disrespect.

And that is the world of the internet. I understand that.

I am proud I was a teacher, no matter what Obama and Arne allow to happen to our schools.

[Whisp]

96. you and your group sound like the children you are supposed to have taught/

or are teaching.

please, step back and read yourselves for crying out loud.

holy crap

[madfloridian]

57. Of course not all agree with me. Obama doesn't, Arne doesn't...

Bill Gates doesn't. Michelle Rhee doesn't...and I could go on.

That is because their purpose in the so-called education "reform" is not to put the children first. It is putting the corporate world first.

What are my credentials to debunk Arne's programs? Did you really just ask me that? I am a retired teacher who cared, and he has looked down his nose at all of us who teach. How dare he?

He is not an educator, and he is way way too buddy buddy with Gates, Broad, and the other billionaire boys' club members.

You come here, openly insult me, and then you have the nerve to criticize me for getting upset?

How dare you.

[Catshrink]

59. The arrogance is astounding.

[Starry Messenger]

63. I've noted a few spelling errors too.

Oh so tempting...

[JackDragna]

106. Since you claim to be a stickler for hard data..

Chicago charters no better than public schools:

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/01/duncans-chicago-failure-with-corporate.html


Chicago charter schools fail in several Illinois state measurements:

http://www.substancenews.net/articles.php?page=928


The programs in Chicago were Arne Duncan's babies. They have not fulfilled their promise, nor do they even come close to the level of transparency required of a regular public school.

[madfloridian]

49. Well good for your degrees. They forgot to teach compassion

and understanding toward children.

I am attacking charter schools....not because of what they are...but because of their purpose. If you really read what I wrote you would understand.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. I have a friend who won a Grammy

But that doesn't make me a musician.

[Dappleganger]

54. I have a friend who's a pathologist...

but that doesn't make me an expert on dead people.

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. My high school boyfriend is a farmer

You'd think I could at least grow an edible tomato. :rofl:

[donco6]

74. My best friend is gay.

Oh wait! Me too!

[Whisp]

97. hey, stay classy.

[Canuckistanian]

61. I have a friend who is a Republican

But that doesn't make me an asshole.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. There are other reasons you're an asshole

LOL! Sorry, just kidding. Couldn't resist. :rofl:

[Diane R]

68. Welcome Laurel. Many of us are concerned about the misinformation in these theads.

[Hekate]

70. Welcome to DU, where some threads are to be avoided unless you agree with the OP already

Your experience and creds sound interesting and I'd really like to know what your thoughts are. Probably just not in this particular thread, as you've already been mocked as arrogant and without compassion for having spoken out.

Hope to see you around.

Hekate

[donco6]

75. Yeah! Go Git 'er!

But that's not an attack. :eyes:

[CBR]

80. Yup... there is one acceptable opinion on this issue or

the swarming begins.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Personal attack

Alerted.

[Catshrink]

43. Yeah,

like that will do any good.

[madfloridian]

46. It will do no good at all.

The insults fly and nothing happens.

But the thought was appreciated.

[Hekate]

69. Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch, that's a disagreement, not a personal attack.

[madfloridian]

44. You know what pisses me off so much about your rudeness?

Not the fact that you will get away with it because it is directed toward me. And that is fine, I am used to it.

But the fact that you condemning me for my "anecdotal" posts, and because I prefer real learning to vague statistics.

The children I taught were not statistics, though Arne and Obama want to make them so.

So you go ahead with your insults, I can handle them...they will stand because they are directed toward me.

And that in itself a shame.

I taught for over 30 years, and my kids were not numbers.

[Dappleganger]

52. Take some time

sit back and learn something before coming out, both barrels blazing at one of the best contributors to DU on the education front.

What have YOU contributed? nothing.

[donco6]

62. And I bet she has bad hair, too.

Jeez. If someone hasn't peed in your Wheaties already, I'll volunteer.

[madfloridian]

64. I am being attacked by a professor who thinks I can't criticize Arne.

Please pinch me so I know I am not dreaming.

[donco6]

66. No pinches here - just encouragement.

Don't let that blowhard get to you. I've worked with some of the best, including Linda Darling-Hammond at Stanford and Dr. Bill Sanders. THEY at least know how to work with people and not belittle them for no reason. Truly great teachers, such as yourself, have that knack. Others . . . not so much.

[Hekate]

72. You have not been attacked and professors are not your enemy

[madfloridian]

77. I live among professors. They are my friends, we share mutual respect

But this person is pitting my concern for what the "reformers" led by Arne are doing to children against her interest in testing and statistics.

Of course it is a personal attack. She discredited every thing I say because I am not quoting statistics.

That is what is wrong with the reform....it drew a distinct line. People vs statistics.

Amazing, it shows how they think. It shows how in her class education may be being reduced to numbers and statistics. That is scary.

[Whisp]

98. That is not true, please. Why do you even bother posting

if you have no tolerance whatsoever for any other opinion than your own?

Laurel was not rude, she was not anything of the sort you are accusing her of. You can't take any criticism at all... not one iota. It is 100% your way or no way. Or your crowd comes swarming in and pecking and laughing.

My goodness, you people are friggin Teachers? you act like This?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Now that I have seen the movie, I can disagree with you.

Over and over they discuss how important teachers are. But they are definitely NOT praised.

[Whisp]

99. so important is not good enough. you want praise?

like choruses of Hallejuiahs? Like bow and scrape?

what do you mean?

[SoCalDem]

45. A great teacher..even just ONE teacher in a child's life can change them forever

BUT a teacher..any teacher (in the macro) should not be required to BE everything to every student.

School is a buffet...you can put all the food out, but not every kid will accept the good parts of the buffet. Teachers cannot force-feed knowledge...and they should not be expected to.

Many people alive today have a mental image of what a teacher should be, what a doctor should be, what a Mom should be etc, that's tv/movie-based, or from our own personal experiences in school.....or a fuzzy combination of both. Is it any wonder we are so befuddled about how awful education is now..for teachers, for kids, for parents, for legislators?

A Boomer (like myself) probably had elementary classes that were jam-packed with "too many" kids & had a teacher named "Miss somebody"..Most of us probably were in junior high before we even thought about whether that woman even had a family of her own.. WE were "her kids".. I was in 7th grade before I even HAD a "Mrs" teacher.. We actually thought that teachers were like nuns..unmarried women ...and we never ever thought they had kids of their own.

Perhaps that's why so many people my age DO have a particular teacher they can look back on, as the ONE who inspired them. For that particular era of teachers, teaching us kids WAS their life.

It has not been that way for a very long time.

Teachers who were well into their careers back then would have gone to college in the 30's & 40's...when going to college was not something the average girl did. In those days career women were often women who knew they would not likely marry, so they became nurses or teachers.. that was pretty much IT.

It has not been that way for a very long time...and it will never be that way again.

[BoneDaddy]

73. The greatest predicator of success is parent involvement

Always will be too. When I see good students, I see good parents. When I see horrible students, you just have to meet the people who they are living with.

Couple that with the right resources and you don't need a PhD to figure this out. Generally speaking the test scores pretty much match the socio-economics of a district. In our state, it was pretty scary to see that correlation.

There are bad teachers out there, but the individual and the parents are much more accountable than the teacher. A good student can still find success with a bad teacher but even the best teachers cannot be successful with someone who chooses not to work or has a family that does not value education.

[Catshrink]

76. Well said.

Unfortunately, only the teacher is held accountable whether the parents are involved or the student is engaged. Charter and private schools can hold parents accountable, public schools cannot.

[BoneDaddy]

79. Absolutely

and charter/parochial/private schools have the option to remove anyone who is acdemically deficient, thus ensuring their test scores are superior. Public school does not have that option.

[Number23]

82. Wow. Is this the thread that prompted that OP about bullying on DU??

:wow: :wtf: :wtf:

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Diane R]

88. I agree with this concern. I think the constant anti-Obama posts don't belong on the DU front page.

[suzie]

93. It's unfortunate that on a forum as wide-ranging as DU, the only discussion permitted

on education is: Are you pro or con on Charter Schools? All Charter Schools, even those that are not run by private, profit-making entities.

There seem to be no other issues in public education, like: There are a number of kids who really should be diverted from the regular school system into some vocational kinds of programs by 7th/8th grades.

[Number23]

94. I agree, suzie. And it is VERY telling.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

92. It is now. n/t

[CBR]

101. Typical education thread. The swarm comes quick. nt

[DailyGrind51]

100. I would replace "student teaching" with mandatory 3 years of substitute teaching.

Only when a teacher is in the classroom by him/herself w/o the benefit of a veteran educator standing in back of the room, can a person know if he/she is suited for teaching.