Hand Counted Paper Ballots Now! nt

[In Truth We Trust]

[MineralMan]

1. Election fraud existed when all there was was hand-counted

paper ballots, too. There's always a way to perpetrate fraud.

[Stevepol]

3. Depends on whether you want it wholesale or retail.

Retail we always had before cyber elections and will always have. Hard to do, not too hard to detect, comparatively easy to rectify.

Wholesale is where a few guys (or one guy) can shift a whole state and thereby a whole country at the click of a mouse or a touch of a key on a keyboard or the insertion of a card, and impossible to prove in nearly every case since the vote is either un-auditable or un-audited.

[elocs]

7. Yep. How easy that is to forget. There's always a way.

Of course if there were no election fraud how could we ever explain away our loses and believe that people might actually choose a Republican over a Democrat?

[Posteritatis]

11. It's rather easier when you've got a computer marking the ballots for you

Anyone who thinks hand-marked, hand-counted paper ballots are easier to cheat, or even anywhere near equivalent in terms of ability to cheat, to electronic voting machines is selling something.

[Rex]

2. Rec!

[bbinacan]

4. Do we trust those

counting the paper ballots?

[In Truth We Trust]

5. Are uou serious with that question... Really?

Did you not read what Stevepol wrote? Btw Stevepol. I appreciate your thoughts. I agree wholeheartedly that that is exactly spot on.

[msongs]

6. hand counted at the precinct with multiple observers, results POSTED IN PUBLICc before being sent to

any central tabulating facility. Must be counted at the precinct in front of witness for concerned parties and double checked.
everyone knows the final count before it is forwarded.

[Blue Owl]

8. K&R

K&R

[Chemical Bill]

9. K&R. n/t

[bigwillq]

10. Wish I could give you an R

But can only give you a K.
:thumbsup:

[Retrograde]

12. if there were only one race...

I sent in my 5-page ballot earlier this week. I voted on: governor, lt. governor (separate races in this state (CA) and yes, we often have them from different parties), sec. of state, treasurer, comptroller, attorney general, insurance commissioner, senator, congress rep., state assembly rep., school superintendent, board of equalization rep., water board rep., 9 state propositions, 3 county ones and 2 city ones, and 5 or 6 judges. One of those propositions was to move city elections to the same year as general elections. That's typical for California. This is not the kind of ballot that can be counted easily and accurately by hand: that's fine when there's one election per ballot, but when you get to 30+ contests per ballot IMHO you need the machines.

What you also need is an honest election system overseen by a secretary of state and board of elections that's open to inspection and votes that can be verified, whether they're scanned off paper ballots, or entered electronically at a polling place (ours do leave a paper trail) or in a pinch counted by hand.