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When Life Resembles A Monty Python Sketch

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:35 PM
Original message
When Life Resembles A Monty Python Sketch
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_10/026106.php

WHEN LIFE RESEMBLES A MONTY PYTHON SKETCH.... There's a classic Monty Python sketch from 1972 called the "Argument Clinic." It goes like this: a man who enjoys a good, substantive debate goes to a business that ostensibly provides one, but after paying his fee, he quickly discovers that the man on the other side of the desk simply contradicts literally everything he says.

The customer, exasperated, eventually tries to explain, "An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition." His adversary replies ,"No, it isn't." He tries again, "Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes." After a short pause, the antagonist responds, "No, it isn't."

A little too often, the "Argument Clinic" sketch reminds me of efforts to engage conservative Republicans in any kind of discourse. The NYT, for example, had an item this week about right-wing Senate candidate Pat Toomey (R) in Pennsylvania, which included this gem:

Mr. Toomey says he favors making the Bush-era tax cuts permanent for all Americans -- which would add $700 billion more to the deficit over 10 years than the plan advocated by President Obama to let the lower rates expire for the rich. But he also expresses a desire to reduce the deficit.

At the ironworks shop, Mr. Toomey brushed aside a question from a local reporter who pointed out that real income for American workers dropped after the Bush tax cuts, saying he did not believe the data.


Well, no, of course not. The data is legitimate, but it would tell Toomey what he doesn't want to hear -- so he brushes it aside. Any of us could go to Toomey, data and charts in hand, and point at the evidence showing that income levels dropped after Bush cut taxes. He'd reply, "No, they didn't."

The problem, of course, is that the phenomenon goes much further than Toomey. The other day, Rick Santorum insisted on national television that under the Bush administration, poverty rates among poverty among African Americans and among single unmarried women were "at the lowest rate ever in the history of this country." That's not even close to true, but if you went to Santorum and explained that reality shows he's wrong, he'd reply, "No, it doesn't."

This comes up just about every day.
Here's overwhelming evidence showing that global warming is real. "No, it doesn't." Here's extensive data showing that tax cuts for the wealthy increase the deficit. "No, it doesn't." Here's plain-text proof showing that the Affordable Care Act isn't socialized medicine or a government-takeover. "No, it doesn't."

This isn't about lying, per se, though that's certainly a problem, too. This is about an entire political party rejecting reality and replacing it with a fantasy.

"Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes." It's also the hallmark of American political discourse in the 21st century.


—Steve Benen
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is the talk radio mindset.
It has been building for years. Good read.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. cable news is the same way
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks.
K & R :thumbsup:
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Constance Craving Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes
I have been saying this to my friends and anyone who would listen, that this is indeed the case. I wonder if the metaphor holds as at the end of the sketch, the gentleman goes to complain, and ther person taking complaints doesn't actually listen or take complaints, but instead gives one of his own . . . also seems up the GOP alley, no?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Fucked Noise crowd has made Goebellian propaganda legitimate.
So now all the wingnuts can cite Fucked News for whatever totalitarian crap they wish to believe or impose on others.

Big Lie, all you have to do is get it out there & keep repeating it.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. America... this is why we are a turd circling the drain.
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Still Blue in PDX Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Well said. nt
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. (link)
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. the romans had gladiators, we have political talk shows
the people must be entertained, and they love their blood sports.

few people are sufficiently interested (to a commercially profitable level, at least if you as the media) in geniunely, substantive policy debate.

however, millions are interested in politics as blood sport. so they want a warrior from "both" sides, and they want them to lunge, parry, and riposte. by the end of the 5 minute match, they want a clear winner.

it's not policy, it's not statesmanship; it's simply sport.

but it's what the people want; or at least, it's what the corporate, profit-minded media have decided the people are willing to pay for.



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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. "i came in here for an argument" "oh! i'm sorry, but this is abuse....you want room 12A."
sometimes debating republicans feels more like the abuse clinic than the argument clinic!
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Resistance is futile
they have been assimilated, so cannot be overcome on the intellectual arena. I believe that keys lie in the deprogramming of cult members, seriously.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. And this is all necessary to any propaganda campaign to fool people
Contradiction and projection 24/7 and never let up...even if you convince no one you wear them down and wear them out.
they are well schooled in this.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. They will move the goalpost whenever you try to nail them down...
"doesn't believe the data" will work well, but don't you dare say a damn thing about their sources!
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. Apparently the majority of (R)s believe "The Flintstones" is a documentary series...
So I guess "Monty Python" is now classified as educational.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rahm Emanuel did NOT call anyone Retarded....
:P
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