How many people here have actually talked to a firefighter about the TN fire?

[Raven]

I would love to know. I have, at length, and he is the Chief of a call/paid fire department in a rural NH town strapped for money.

He was DISGUSTED.

[arbusto_baboso]

1. My wife works in a County Fire Dept.

She and the vast majority of her coworkers think the members of the dept in TN should be jailed.

Yeah, yeah, not technically criminal, but that's how they feel.

[doc03]

5. The Fire Chief from a local town that also has a fire service fee

was on TV last night he pretty much thought it was criminal. He said the fire Departments job is to put out fires and they don't even know if you paid your fee or not, he said that is the city's job.
He said there was no way they would sit back and watch a house burn down over a $75 fee.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

6. that is too bad they get the blame - the city manager made the decision

Remember the county has no fire protection, this little city (in the county) has it's own fire department. The city will go beyond it's borders to help you, if you prepay a modest fee. This man lived outside the city, and chose not to pay the fee.

[roguevalley]

17. he said on keith that he forgot. also, keith told him that some of

the firemen went home and cried.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

2. it is a stupid Republican idea that fails - surprise

I hope the news is full of a lot of them this month.

[dionysus]

7. i think the most republican idea of it all is that the county people have no FD, by choice, and want

to use the FD of a smaller, poorer community, for free.

[Bluerthanblue]

3. I have too-

and they think that there is no excuse for what happened.

Both professional and volunteer agree, it was the wrong decision.

(I'm also from rural N.H.)

:hi:

[Pithlet]

4. I've seen one who posted here that sided with them. n/t

[JuniperLea]

8. Funny you should ask...

They are getting ready for fire life safety testing in the high-rise where I work, and our lobby was simply teaming with firefighters this morning. I recognized a couple of them from previous safety training in the building, so I said hello and started chatting... as I am oft want to do. There was much eye rolling and head shaking... one guys hands were shaking, with anger. Five out of the five (four male, one female, if that matters) thought the entire situation was appalling and morally lacking. All said that they would have disobeyed a direct order and fought the fire, because that's the right thing to do.

[tularetom]

9. I used to be a member of a volunteer fire co.

And I can't imagine NOT putting out a fire under those (or any other) circumstances. Or at least attempting to do so.

In CA it used to be quite common for people to move out of incorporated cities in order to avoid the higher taxes that funded city services (such as paid fire departments). What fire service we had was provided by volunteer companies. We were one of those companies and we were forced to disband when the county would no longer include us under its umbrella liability policy. We simply could not afford the premiums so we closed the doors.

IMO it is bad public policy to put any kind of public safety component under a fee for service basis. It will always eventually result in a situation like this. It is part of the "Commons" as Tom Hartmann refers to it and as such it is something we should all share in the cost of. Moral questions like who gets their fires extinguished should never be part of the equation. Period. Just like health care.

[TexasObserver]

10. I have. Talked to a fire fighter of 17 years.

He's a professional whose job is in Houston, but he lives in a small community 75 miles from Houston. Many Houston fire fighters live an hour or more from Houston, where they raise their families. They go in for their duty time, and then come home for days at a time. I don't really know their schedules, but he and another fire fighter live in the small town and work on the local volunteer fire department.

I talked to one of them and the wife of the other. She has a local charity, and I was helping her on a project yesterday. So, I talked to one fire fighter and the wife of another fire fighter. I know him, too, but he was on duty at his big city gig.

The fire fighter said and the other fire fighter's wife agreed that fire fighters believe they are there to fight fires, and jurisdictional lines are not their concern. They fight fires for free in their rural home communities, and often respond to major fires outside their immediate area. There are three volunteer fire departments in a 15 mile radius, and they each support each other as needed.

There are no subscription fees in the any of the three communities, and all three require fundraisers and local support to exist.

These professionals were appalled at this story. They don't have a problem with asking people to pay or making them pay, but they do have a problem with using it as the decision maker for response.

The fire fighter I visited with said he feels insurance companies should pay for the costs of volunteer departments, because they are the ones who benefit the most from fire fighters.

Fire fighters are a proud, brave bunch, and they hold themselves to a higher standard than most. They rightly believe that being willing to walk into danger and fight a fire sets them apart. Their civilian bosses should be so brave.

[williesgirl]

11. I talked to a friend, who's a paid firefighter. He started out as a volunteer and did that for 10

yrs. He couldn't believe ANY firefighter could stand there and do nothing, even though ordered by their Chief. He thinks that stupid tax needs to be outlawed and they should find another way to fund the dept.

[TorchTheWitch]

12. talked to two of my firefighter neighbors

We have volunteer firefighters in the communities here. Two of them live on my street, and I'm pretty friendly with both. Out of curiousity last night I spoke to both of them while taking the dog out for his nightly walk.

One of them (Joe) just this year had to stop due to health issues, but he'd been with the department for something like 30 years, and being an older single guy without kids it's kind of his family. During the summer he has a standard Friday night barbeque invite to all the neighbors and the firefighter volunteers from our community and the surrounding ones... it's sort of a pot-luck deal, so I've gotten to know a lot of them (I'm never one to turn down someone else's cooking since I'm a lousy cook myself!).

So, last night while out walking the dog I ran into Joe walking his dog and did the usual chat while the dogs sniffed each others butts (which can take an extraordinarily long time) and since I'd just been reading all these threads on this topic before taking the dog out I talked to him about it curious what his take was as a firefighter. It took me awhile to even convince him that the firefighters in TN not putting out the fire actually occurred - that's how appauling and unbelievable it was to him that firefighters would actually obey an outrageous order to not put out a fire because of a fee dispute. While we were chatting, the other firefighter neighbor came outside with his dog for his nightly smoke while the dog does his bidniz in his yard, and since we happen to have been chatting near his fence he came over to chat with us. Joe and I told him the story - he didn't believe it at first either and became just as outraged as Joe.

Since my dog was anxious to get on with the walk having grown tired of all the butt sniffing and needing to get on with the peeing and pooping, I left them there still talking about it. About an hour later I came back with the dog, and they were still at the fence and still expressing their outrage to each other... while both of their dogs were flopped out on the ground snoring away at their feet. I would have stopped to chat some more, but it had already been drizzling, and by the time I got back to the houses rain was starting to come down harder and being out that long without bringing an umbrella though it was mostly just drizzle turned out to be not such a good idea... got a lot more wet than I thought I would.

I'm hoping to run into one or both of them again tonight since they both couldn't wait to tell the story to their other firefighter buds, and I want to know what the ones they talked to think. I usually run into Joe during the nightly dog walking since we seem to walk our dogs around the same time at night.

Off topic but during the walk we saw a silver fox run across the road and disappear into some undergrowth. We often catch a glimpse of the regular red foxes in that area, but the silver ones are really shy and you almost never see them. First time I saw one in years.

[baldguy]

13. Fire Fighters Condemn South Fulton’s Decision to Let Home Burn

http://www.iaff.org/Comm/PDFs/SouthFulton.pdf

International Association of Fire Fighters General President Harold Schaitberger today issued the following statement on the September 29 fire in Obion County, Tennessee:

“The decision by the South Fulton Fire Department to allow a family’s home to burn to the ground was incredibly irresponsible. This tragic loss of property was completely avoidable. Because of South Fulton’s pay-to-play policy, fire fighters were ordered to stand and watch a family lose its home.

“Everyone deserves fire protection because providing public safety is among a municipality’s highest priorities.

“Instead, South Fulton wants to charge citizens outside the city for fire protection. We condemn South Fulton’s ill-advised, unsafe policy. Professional, career fire fighters shouldn’t be forced to check a list before running out the door to see which homeowners have paid up. They get in their trucks and go.”

[moondust]

15. +

[Xithras]

14. Talked to my brother in law last night (volunteer FF)

He said that he could understand, and even accept, that the department wouldn't respond to the original 911 calls. The fire was outside of their jurisdiction, city policy stated that they couldn't respond, and they have to follow city rules with city vehicles.

He had a huge problem with the fact that they didn't fight the fire when they did eventually respond after the neighbor called. He was pretty angry at the idea that the truck would go to the fire, and then refuse to fight it. He said that, as a firefighter, he couldn't comprehend just sitting there and watching it burn.

Despite my general opinions toward libertarian freeloaders, I largely agreed with his take on it. Not initially responding to the call is defensible. Watching it burn after you do respond probably isn't. The truck has already rolled, the equipment donned, and the expenses have already been incurred at that point.

[RubyDuby in GA]

16. I want to know if anyone has talked to THOSE firefighters...the ones that stood there and did nothin

I want to know if they have dared to attempt to explain why they shouldn't be considered the most despicable people on the planet.

[donheld]

18. No I have no way to do that, but thanks for sharing that

It's great to have first hand info. :toast:

[JonLP24]

19. Some here on DU indicated they were firemen

or at some point in their life, was a fireman.

All said on here they would put out the fire and worry about the monetary issues later.

[Kablooie]

20. International Association of Fire Fighters condemn the decision.

nternational Association of Fire Fighters General President Harold Schaitberger today issued the following statement on the September 29 fire in Obion County, Tennessee:

“The decision by the South Fulton Fire Department to allow a family’s home to burn to the ground was incredibly irresponsible. This tragic loss of property was completely avoidable."

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/05/2279115/fire-fighters-condemn-south-fultons.html

[TexasObserver]

21. That is not at all surprising. Fire Fighters fight fires.

More fire fighters than police die in the line of duty.

They go into danger and risk themselves.

I know two who work for pay in the big city and raise their family in a small community an hour from the big city. They work as volunteer fire fighters in the small community. They would not dream of refusing to fight a fire.